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View Full Version : Deploying scouts and your interpretation of "not out in the open"



Carpet
22-02-2010, 23:20
So the BRB says when deploying scouts they must be:


more than 10" away from the enemy and must be out of the sight of any enemy troops and in or behind interposing terrain (not out in the open!)

I've taken this to mean they must be in something like a wood or hugging the walls of a building, but during a recent tournament I had it pointed out to me that "behind interposing terrain" could mean that the terrain just has to be between the scouts and the enemy.

The only thing that jars with me with this interpretation is why the need to include "not out in the open", which implies to me that they need to be doing something that resembles hiding (ie hugging a wall) and not just milling around in open ground.

So can scouts deploy in the open as long as there is 10" and interposing terrain between them and the enemy - even if this means they are in open ground?

Thoughts and personal precedents appreciated!

Lord Malorne
22-02-2010, 23:22
Yes, so long as they can't be seen and are more than 10" away.

Yellow Commissar
22-02-2010, 23:52
Yes, apparently so. Interposing terrain seems to just mean that the terrain is between the scouts and the enemy. I think an argument could be made against any scouts trying to deploy in open terrain if any enemy unit could draw a line to them without crossing any terrain piece though.

rtunian
23-02-2010, 00:17
the reason they say "out of sight of enemy troops" AND "behind interposing terrain" is probably so that you don't just deploy in their deployment zone, to the side of a block of troops where they can't see you, since block troops can only see out their front (so to speak)

so yellow, if an enemy unit can draw a line to them w/o crossing any terrain piece, (or even if it crosses a terrain piece that doesn't block line of sight) then it fails the first prerequisite of being unseen

Ganymede
23-02-2010, 00:27
I interpret interposing terrain as just that: terrain that blocks view. I play that scouts must be placed in or behind terrain that blocks view to them.

Kalandros
23-02-2010, 00:30
There must be a piece of terrain between the Enemy and the Scouts, this is true for ALL Scouts - even waywatchers.

Shamutanti
23-02-2010, 00:48
There must be a piece of terrain between the Enemy and the Scouts, this is true for ALL Scouts - even waywatchers.

Even waywatchers? Didn't know that. Hmm - I thought their rule meant they could be deployed in the open (as in, ignoring the need for terrain to be between enemy and themselves) and be 'seen', as long as they're 12inches away.

Yellow Commissar
23-02-2010, 01:22
so yellow, if an enemy unit can draw a line to them w/o crossing any terrain piece, (or even if it crosses a terrain piece that doesn't block line of sight) then it fails the first prerequisite of being unseen

Only if they are in the units front arc.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean line of sight, I meant the scouts would count as in the open if there were no terrain interposed between the unit and any arc or any enemy.

WusteGeist
23-02-2010, 05:02
Scouts must have 2 things
10 inches away
Out of line of sight

Terrain
Unless its a woods or stated otherwise, most terrain will not obscure line of sight totally. I think the problem arises when some one gets the idea that, hey one of my guys can see you because that piece of (whatever) does not conceal you.
Its very important it label terrain before the game begins, unless of course you and the player already understand how it works.
Example, most I play with state that a hill can hide a giant as long as he is on the other side than that of the unit trying to see him. I disagree with this logic as the hill is not big enough ergo the giant can be seen, BUT I have played with these people many times and in some cases for years. So I let it go and say sure the giant is hidden.

T10
23-02-2010, 06:01
scouts

"Not in the open": The unit should be inside or in contact with some terrain that can be considered to provide cover.

E.g.: If the table's only terrain feature is a single wood then the scouting must deploy in or in contact with that wood. Even a single model in contact with the wood would be sufficient.

Usually it is easier to hide a unit close to a terrain feature (in order to escape line of sight) than further away.

-T10

HannibalSW
23-02-2010, 11:54
Even waywatchers? Didn't know that. Hmm - I thought their rule meant they could be deployed in the open (as in, ignoring the need for terrain to be between enemy and themselves) and be 'seen', as long as they're 12inches away.

Waywatchers can be deployed in the open but with the minimal distance of 12 inches to the enemy.

Or they can be deployed as Scouts, but with no minimal distance to the enemy. So in theory they could be right next to the block of infantry as long as they are in a terrain feature and out of LOS.

Carpet
23-02-2010, 12:05
"Not in the open": The unit should be inside or in contact with some terrain that can be considered to provide cover.

E.g.: If the table's only terrain feature is a single wood then the scouting must deploy in or in contact with that wood. Even a single model in contact with the wood would be sufficient.

Usually it is easier to hide a unit close to a terrain feature (in order to escape line of sight) than further away.

-T10

This is how I've always played it - general opinion appears to disagree though.

rtunian
23-02-2010, 14:34
Only if they are in the units front arc.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean line of sight, I meant the scouts would count as in the open if there were no terrain interposed between the unit and any arc or any enemy.

ah yes i did. you are right, just being out of the front arc is not enough. you have to also be in terrain or behind it

the rules do not say that the terrain piece itself has to block line of sight. so as long as you are out of los of any enemy unit, you could deploy on the other side of a swamp, for example.

Yellow Commissar
23-02-2010, 16:17
the rules do not say that the terrain piece itself has to block line of sight. so as long as you are out of los of any enemy unit, you could deploy on the other side of a swamp, for example.

I agree. That is how I read it.

Kalandros
23-02-2010, 22:35
Even waywatchers? Didn't know that. Hmm - I thought their rule meant they could be deployed in the open (as in, ignoring the need for terrain to be between enemy and themselves) and be 'seen', as long as they're 12inches away.

Yes, if they're 12" away its fine, but if they want to get 1 inch away from your units - before reading the Scout rules properly, our Wood Elf friend kept deploying his waywatchers behind our units in our deployment zones, in places where there was a small spot out of line of sight from war machines and whatnot.

He got pissed when we told him we had read the rules and the Waywatchers were no exception - Terrain is needed even for Waywatchers to be deployed closer than 12"

macattack428
24-02-2010, 02:14
Not sure where i read/heard this, but , dont units get a 360 line of sight when deployed? Meaning you cant deploy scouts in an enemys deployment zone...

Yellow Commissar
24-02-2010, 14:38
Not sure where i read/heard this, but , dont units get a 360 line of sight when deployed? Meaning you cant deploy scouts in an enemys deployment zone...

It was a clarification or FAQ for 6th edition. No longer applies.

Ozorik
25-02-2010, 00:15
the rules do not say that the terrain piece itself has to block line of sight. so as long as you are out of los of any enemy unit, you could deploy on the other side of a swamp, for example.

Indeed, scouts are trained at using cover after all so basically any terrain would be sufficent down to simple long grass.

Carpet
26-02-2010, 13:48
So is there any consensus on whether they need to be in contact with the terrain they are hiding behind?

rtunian
26-02-2010, 14:16
the rule book does not say that you have to be in contact with anything, therefore you do not. you may be in terrain, or you may be behind interposing terrain. "interposing" merely means "in between", or in the context of the rule, there must be terrain in between the scouting unit and the enemy

remember there is another caveat that says you also have to be out of line of sight (as well as one that says you have to be 10" away), so being behind terrain is not enough, if any single enemy unit can draw a line of sight to the scout. so, in some circumstances, you would have to stay close enough to the terrain that no enemy can see you around it.

in some other circumstances, an enemy can not see you no matter how far away from the terrain you are, because of other los-blocking terrain, or because of the way that the enemy has deployed

Yellow Commissar
26-02-2010, 21:34
I agree with rtunian. Not required to be in contact with terrain.

That said, I do sort of see the point of view that they would, and would probably defer to my opponent if he insisted they need to be.

I don't think I've ever deployed my scouts anywhere other than in a terrain piece anyway, so I doubt it will come up much for me.