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leeoaks
23-02-2010, 20:52
Just created a manticore model and now have come to the point where i'm thinking how the hell do i use it??

I play dark elves.

Any ideas?

Lee

Witchblade
23-02-2010, 21:11
Rule #1: don't let it get shot. T5 no armour isn't that hard.

Rule #2: don't subject it to heavy return attacks.

Basically, your targets are stuff you can kill on the charge. A (multi) charge in the flank or rear of a unit also works wonders. If you have a tooled up dreadlord on top, you can be slightly more aggressive, but in general, conservative play is best. It's all right if your manticore just dictates the opponent's movement the first few turns with its large threat range and only starts killing stuff later in the game when enemy war machines and the like have been taken out.

leeoaks
23-02-2010, 21:22
what kit should i tool the lord with?

Malorian
23-02-2010, 22:03
What does the rest of your army look like?

Knifeparty
23-02-2010, 22:10
You shouldn't actually run a Lord on your manticore. Use a hero as they are cheaper and you can use up your much needed Lord choice on something that won't die to a slight breeze.

A Manticore's primary role is to accompany a Lord on a Dragon. The dragon Charges the unit for combat rez, and the Hero on the Manticore takes the Challenges for maximum use of killing blow. This way you can run the two side by side up the board overwhelming the opponent with targets especially if you run 2 hydras and 2 units of Cold One Knights as well (as I do). This is commonly known as the Monster rancher list, or beast list.

This list hits brutaly hard, and is increadibly fast.

Downsides:

Shooting can be a downside but that holds true for every elf army. This list is probly the most resilient to shooting that a Dark Elf army can offer and i've taken out my fair share of Thorek gunlines with it.

Magic can be brutal, but if you run the ring of hotek on someone in the main battle line, you'll be at least a little bit protected against everything but one or two dice spell spamming.

Static rez. You really need to break things quickly with this army, its like blitzkreig, attrition is not your friend and you need to keep momentum or you will loose. Break the things you know will break first to make holes in the battle line. then come back for the slower stubborn stuff later, you also have 3 breath weapon templates to soften up bunker targets.

This is my official list:

Some Magic Itemization may not be optimal so feel free to bounce around magic items, but this is the general idea.

Lord: Dreadlord
Options: General
Mount: Black Dragon
Magic Items: Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Null Talisman, Pendant of Khaleth

Hero: Master
Options: Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour, Sea Dragon Cloak
Mount: Manticore
Magic Items: Death Piercer, Enchanted Shield

Core:

5 Dark Riders:
Options: x-Bows, Musician

5 Dark Riders:
Options: x-Bows, Musician

5 Dark Riders:
Options: x-Bows, Musician

Special:

5 Cold One Knights:
Options: Champion, Standard
Magic Items: Ring of Hotek

5 Cold One Knights:
Options Champion, Standard
Magic Items: Banner of Murder

Rare:

War Hydra

War Hydra

The SkaerKrow
23-02-2010, 22:12
I currently run a Master on Manticore with either a Sword of Might or Whip of Agony, Enchanted Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak and Heavy Armor. The best use that you'll have with a Manticore rider is as a maneuverable support hammer. Run it up your opponent's flank, get it behind or beside their battle line around turn 4 or so, and use it to shatter ranks. The Manticore won't beat blocks head-on, but once it gets into a flank it can ruin someone's day. Keep in mind though that it's an incredibly fragile unit, and won't stand up to much punishment.

Snorri_Ironbeard
23-02-2010, 22:14
I think that manticore should be focused on destroying enemy's shooting troops, as other flying units in the army. Once the war machines of the enemy are disabled, you can use your manticore (combined with harpies) almost choosing your target. With a tooled up prince you don't have to be afraid of putting it into combats against non-unbreakable or very-elite units.

Eternal hartred, the great number of attacks and possibly the choice of a prince prepared to close combat may give you lots of combats against light and medium units.

The only thing you have to be aware is to avoiding it from being shooted, so as it has been said before, it is really weak imo.

If you protect it well it's an underestimated monster.

sulla
23-02-2010, 22:16
The manticore is quite good as far as medium monsters go. There are a couple of guidelines for using one (or two).

1) It is very fragile. On average, it will only take about 20 s3 hits to kill one. more if some hit the rider, but the main point is, even humble archers can bring one down so...
2) Patience! While you can throw a dragon forward in the know,ledge that few armies can muster enough shooting to kill in in a turn and then you're in combat, medium monsters can't do that. You have to stalk with it. Plan on being in combat in turn 3 or 4 instead of turn 2. Use that time to hug terrain and set up in the flank.
3) Flanking. You want to set up for flank charges with the manticore because a) it cancels ranks and b) it has a chance of going frenzied each turn. Flanking your opponent means less risky target choices if you do fail a frenzy test.

Decisions you will have to make for yourself are how big an investment you are going to make in your manticore. Do you want a dreadlord to break units on his own, or a support master instead. Something as simple as armour of darkness, ring of hotek, lance is a good combo for the master. Then you have to decide how much support you want for your manticore rider. It would be silly to buy a fragile beast and not bring anything to hunt stuff that can hurt it. So think harpies, dark riders, shades...

There's a few pointers to help you on your way. :)

leeoaks
24-02-2010, 07:32
i think i wll go for a lord as it uses one less hero slot. i was going to go for low magic and potentially another hero on dark peg. i would potentially be taking a COB as i want some blocked khanite them.


as for the army.....all of the characters are ladies. i will be having executioners. W elves and some co knights (i know there not great) . for rare i will be using the FW avatar as a hydra (summoned daemon). i also have some bolt throwers and loads of metal corsairs and harpies and corsairs.

this is the manticore
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/leeoaks/SDC10625.jpg

thanks for all your help!!!

shelfunit.
24-02-2010, 07:41
This is my official list:

Some Magic Itemization may not be optimal so feel free to bounce around magic items, but this is the general idea.

Lord: Dreadlord
Options: General
Mount: Black Dragon
Magic Items: Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Null Talisman, Pendant of Khaleth



These are both talismans, can a character have more than 1? I know the null talisman says you can have more than 1, like scrolls, but can you have 1 in addition to another different talisman?

EDIT: @ leeoaks - Nice looking manticore - those wings must be a nightmare to attach.

The SkaerKrow
24-02-2010, 13:50
My Manticore had an all-star performance last night, so I figured that I'd recap it here to explain how mine works within the synergy of my own army.

The table had a pretty typical layout, open in the center with scattered terrain up the flanks. My main force consisted of a Warrior block, a Black Guard block, two Corsair screens and a War Hydra. I sent the Manticore, five Harpies and five Dark Riders up my opponent's right flank, screening the Manticore with woods the whole time. On the opposing flank I maneuvered a second unit of Dark Riders towards his Reaper Bolt Throwers, keeping them behind the safety of woods.

My opponent had a similar infantry formation to my own, with Crossbowkin instead of Corsairs, and I was able to keep his center in place by advancing slowly and covering all of my charge arcs with other units in my line. When I maneuvered my Manticore adjacent to his battle line, I simultaneously positioned my unit of Dark Riders on the far flank to threaten his Bolt Throwers, meaning that if he didn't deal with the Dark Riders, he'd lose both of his Bolt Throwers on the following turn. However, if he didn't deal with the Manticore, he would risk the flank of his battle line. It was a squeeze play, and he elected to preserve the Bolt Throwers.

The Manticore charged the flank of his largest Warrior block (with Supreme Sorceress), broke and ran it down, then hit a smaller Warrior block. During the following turn he couldn't reform his line to face the Manticore without exposing his flank to the rest of my army, so he continued to advance. The Manticore broke the second Warrior block and hit the flank of his Black Guard. To all rights his ASF Black Guard should have defeated the Manticore (which at that point had two wounds remaining), but I was lucky enough to survive two turns of combat, breaking the unit, running it down and pursuing into the unit of Warriors that it had fled earlier. Even taking the Manticore head on, the Warrior block was depleted and didn't stand a chance against it. It broke and was run down, taking his second Sorceress with it.

At the end of the game the Manticore had accounted for three units, a Lord, a Hero and had captured three standards. While the Manticore did all of the actual damage, it was able to do so because of the way that I used the rest of my army. By advancing slowly and using the units in my main battle line to cover each other, I presented a daunting center to my opponent that he had to address. By outflanking with my Dark Riders and threatening his Bolt Throwers at the same time that I put my Manticore into harm's way, I forced my opponent to choose between potentially losing both of his Bolt Throwers or giving up a flank charge from the Manticore.

Thanks to the maneuverability of the Manticore, you can use it to create no-win situations for your opponent, where they have to struggle not to expose one aspect of their army to protect another. A savvy opponent will obviously choose the lesser of two evils in that situation, but it still gives you a tool that allows you to inflict your battle plan upon the other player and pick apart their army.

leeoaks
24-02-2010, 17:46
who said manticores are rubbish good job skaercrow!

thesheriff
24-02-2010, 19:37
Give it what you would a normal lord on dragon, it does'nt make a differance really, as long as you are more careful with your mosnster than you would be a, oh i don't know, a S7,WS10, flying moster with 7 attacks.

At the end of the day, it could be armed with just a common magic sword and a lance, the other player will still be bricking himself if it gets anywhere near him! It's like the application of terrorism to warhammer, (in the nicest most un-offensive way)

leeoaks
24-02-2010, 23:34
'At the end of the day, it could be armed with just a common magic sword and a lance, the other player will still be bricking himself if it gets anywhere near him! It's like the application of terrorism to warhammer, (in the nicest most un-offensive way)'

sometimes i do chuckle to myself at what you come up with....application of terror.

what are you taking about, i wonder.......a S7,WS10, flying moster with 7 attacks........load the bolt throwers!!!

i'm hoping that my opponent wont try to kill it as it looks pretty....i have my doubts!

you fancy the doubles tourney? your daemons as the anvil and i'll bring the DE to annoy flank??

thesheriff
25-02-2010, 16:16
I was actually gonna send you an email, but thought you would already have a partner. I'm not sure on points, but i've got lists for 1,000, 1,500 and 2,000 points. Would be awsome (just make sure you bring tonnes of magic, that would be hilarious!) but yes, definatly!

leeoaks
26-02-2010, 13:54
its 750pts per person:

you take the avil i'll take the hammer!

PM me what you want to take for 750 points and i'll build my army to fit your list.

we will have to get a couple of practice games in.

Lee