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Fenxis
09-02-2006, 17:16
An interesting scenario turned up my game last night that seemed to fall through the rules:

When heroes (and other similar characters) join units they cannot be usually targeted. Furthermore, the rules go on to explain that extra wounds caused in combat do not cascade over from the character to the Rn'F and I believe opposite holds true. We wouldn't find anything in the rules to handle shooting.

Scenario: a unit of 7 elves + hero are in range of 2 organ guns. 14 hits are rolled and with 2+ to wound pretty much everything does. Does the character live on or gets turned into red mist with his kin?

Thanks

Azazel
09-02-2006, 17:48
The Hero would take a single Wound.

You allocate 7 hits on the poor elves, 1 on the Hero. Then the other 6 on the elves.

Festus
09-02-2006, 17:57
Hi

Nope, the Hero is immune from the shots of the first Organ gun.

As long as at least 5+ R'n'F models are alive, the character will not get any hits.

When the second Organ gun fires and there are still at least 5 R'n'F surviving (including Command models), the Character cannot be hit.

If there are less than 5 R'n'F surviving, the hits will be distributed randomly (ie. 1 hit per model until every model suffers one, then the second hit per model and so on...)

Greetings
Festus

edit: the relevant section is p.97, 2nd column, 2nd paragraph

Fenxis
09-02-2006, 19:45
The Hero would take a single Wound.

You allocate 7 hits on the poor elves, 1 on the Hero. Then the other 6 on the elves.

That's the 40k -ish answer.. /agree with Festus.

sds661
10-02-2006, 00:38
We had a similar situation with 5 Dragon Princes plus hero pursuing and releasing fanatics. So ... what we should have done is ...??

first fanatic : hits only troopers and cannot hit hero, so it is possible that a hit is wasted (numbers now reduced below 5)

second (and subsequent) fanatics: hits distributed as equally as possible, with any excess allotted randomly ... and thus some hits can be wasted again.

Does that sound right??

DarkTerror
10-02-2006, 05:34
Hmm, it doesn't sound right... but I suppose that's how the rules would go.

Gorbad Ironclaw
10-02-2006, 05:37
It is.

You could have a character and 5 normal troopers get hit by 30 hits from a hellblaster. The troopers would be very, very dead. The hero wouldn't have a scratch.

Griefbringer
10-02-2006, 08:05
Obvious tactical choice would be to make sure that you have another big gun near by to take a shot at the surprised looking single hero standing amongst the remainders of his former unit.

peteratwar
10-02-2006, 08:57
That would only be possible in your next turn when the hero would be long gone! You could of course have 2 guns lined up at the start of the turn OR you could ensure you have some ordinary shooters in range

Shield of Freedom
10-02-2006, 15:49
We had a similar situation with 5 Dragon Princes plus hero pursuing and releasing fanatics. So ... what we should have done is ...??

first fanatic : hits only troopers and cannot hit hero, so it is possible that a hit is wasted (numbers now reduced below 5)

second (and subsequent) fanatics: hits distributed as equally as possible, with any excess allotted randomly ... and thus some hits can be wasted again.

Does that sound right??

No I believe with less than 5 RnF models in the unit you COMPLETELY distribute the wounds evenly, counting the hero as a model.

ei, 6 hits on a unit with a hero and 2 RnF, each model recieves 2 hits.

Now, does THIS sound right?

Azazel
10-02-2006, 15:50
Bah! At a tourney (a GW staff run club) I fought Empire with my Strigoi.
I was versus the Store Manager when his Hellblaster Vollygun got a 6 on the Misfire table. Flattened a unit of 20 skeletons AND my Vampire Lord.

Cheating bastard.

Borthcollective
10-02-2006, 17:12
Bah! At a tourney (a GW staff run club) I fought Empire with my Strigoi.
I was versus the Store Manager when his Hellblaster Vollygun got a 6 on the Misfire table. Flattened a unit of 20 skeletons AND my Vampire Lord.

Cheating bastard.

Did you call him on it, or not know the extent of the rule either?

Festus
10-02-2006, 21:30
Hi

(a GW staff run club)

I just pointed out the source of the misinterpretation here.

You might not trust me, but you better not trust a redshirt to get a rule right ... ever. Although some are knowledgeable in one game, they often don't know their way around the other ones. But they still try to pose as an authority on behalf of their GW-ishness.

Therefore they are more often wrong than right...:angel:

Greetings
Festus

Griefbringer
11-02-2006, 10:31
Yep, never trust a redshirt - on anything!

gortexgunnerson
12-02-2006, 18:11
No I believe with less than 5 RnF models in the unit you COMPLETELY distribute the wounds evenly, counting the hero as a model.

ei, 6 hits on a unit with a hero and 2 RnF, each model recieves 2 hits.

Now, does THIS sound right?


Not quite, or pehaps lol. The example in the book gives 1 rule and the rules paragraph gives another,Page 97 BRB

Rules

"Divide the number of hits evenly between all memebers of the unit (including characters) and randomise any excess hits"

Example

If a units with 3 RnF models and 2 characters suffer 7 hits, then each modek would suffer a single hit, and then you would roll to wound and take saves immediately. Allocate the remaining 2 "hits between the survivers randomly"

Now I personally thing the rules bit is a better way of playing this, but then again it does help to give to distribute damage to the character so might have been included as a fairness thing

Azazel
12-02-2006, 18:54
Did you call him on it, or not know the extent of the rule either?

I took his word for it. It was his Warmachine, and no unit of mine had ever suffered thirty hits at once. :p

Festus
12-02-2006, 20:44
Hi

The example in the book gives 1 rule and the rules paragraph gives another,Page 97 BRB
Yes, it is funny how they manage to contradict themselves within a few sentences.

But I'd go with the rule here, as the example is faulty:

"Divide the number of hits evenly between all memebers of the unit (including characters) and randomise any excess hits"

Greetings
Festus

mageith
12-02-2006, 20:52
But I'd go with the rule here, as the example is faulty:

"Divide the number of hits evenly between all memebers of the unit (including characters) and randomise any excess hits"

Almost everywhere I play goes with the example. The rigid rule often results in wasted hits, which I think is faulty. The example seldom does since the remaining hits go on survivors. Survivors, of course, are not even mentioned in the rule itself.

YMMV

It's not often we get a Q&A right in the BRB. :)

Mage Ith

Festus
12-02-2006, 21:06
Hi

The rigid rule often results in wasted hits, ...

How can it possibly?

The only thing the Example does is to increase the chances of the character being hit more often, as he will be one of the survivors probably.

If I have 6 hits on 3 men and a character, I will resolve it a s follows_

according to the example: All get one hit, which is worked out, then I distribute the remaining hits. Say 2 troopers fall, then the character will instantly suffer another hit, making it two hits suffered. Even if only one trooper falls, the character will suffer 1.75 hits, or even 3 hits if all 3 troopers die.

according to the rule: All get one hit and half will get another. That is on average only 1.5 hits on the character.

So the rule gives a lower number of hits on the character, but a higher chance for the troopers to die.

Greetings
Festus