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Templar47
25-02-2010, 02:50
Well, after letting them gather dust for awhile, a fantasy tournament is being held at my game store and I decided to surprise everyone by bringing in my DOW army. Saying that, I have some questions to ask and tactical advise would be much appreciated.

1.Which is better, a Truthsayer or a Dark Emissary and where can I get the rules for me to field them.

2.Which ROR unit would be better, Ricco's Republican Guard with the +1 WS or Leapolds Leopards,who are immune to psychology.

3.Thinking about using the Bearmen, are they an effective unit?

4.I'm going to be using at least 1 unit of regular pikemen, so is heavy armor worth the points or should I just ignore it.

ZigZagMan
25-02-2010, 03:02
1. I prefer the truthsayer, same dispel dice, better save, better Str, one less power die, I also prefer his spell list
2. I play with Ricco's but ITP is priceless in this army
3. Yes they are good, but only for the character, too expensive, and frenzy
4. yea heavy armor's worth it, if only to absorb missle fire

Xyon
25-02-2010, 03:11
1. the warhammer annual 2003 or one of the warhammer anual books from around that time, if you still dont have the paper pamphlet from the campaign.

2. They're both pretty good. You could take both, but Ricco's will be a cheaper unit over all and perform better than Leopolds, unless there's alot of fear/terror that chases them off.

3. I have no experience with them, because I dont play DOW and havent played against them since 6th, but they look effective on paper if you can limit them being led around because of their frenzy.

4. I'd build your army with them wearing light armor, and if you have any spare points, upgrade as many to heavy armor.

someone2040
25-02-2010, 04:43
Bearmen are one of the best units available to the Dogs of War. Hot contention with the Dragonlord and pistol duellists.
The Norsemen themselves aren't that special, generally Flail or GW Norse are better. But you can't laugh at 2 weaponskill 4 attacks each with a 4+ save in combat.
However, the two shining points of the unit are...
The Bearpelt Banner, which gives the entire unit +1 to hit in the first round of combat. This ends up working wonders with the large amount of attacks you dish out (even if they are only strength 3).
And finally, the star of the show, Beorg Bearstruck himself. He is basically, a lord stuck to this unit. Commonly hits on 2's due to his high weaponskill, he's basically the guy who wins you the combats. Anything the other fella's do is icing on the cake.
They are expensive though, and generally lead to a deathstarish like approach (Whacking the Paymaster, and a Wizard to bears anger Beorg if possible in there).

As for the other questions.
Truthsayer I think brings more to the army. As he gives you decent dispelling, and some nice buffs. The Dark Emissary means you really need to cast lots of spells to get the most out of him. It's hard to go completely magic heavy when you need to spend a hero slot on a useless Paymaster.

Pikemen all around, just aren't that useful. They don't deal enough damage, even with 20 attack striking first, that's 10 hits, maybe 5 wounds before armour (and against toughness 4 stuff, less wounds). They just can't match up to units nowdays, especially since they are really expensive compared to infantry in 7th edition (Yeah right, a Pikeman is not worth the same as a Saurus warrior).

If you do want any, the regiments of renown are the way to go. Ricco's gives you the weaponskill and some armour. Leopolds gives you immune to psych if you're worried about fear/terror causes or Paymaster panic. The Alcatani Fellowship gives you cheap pikes but you lose out on weaponskill.
I'd say, Republican Guard and Leopard company, give you different things. So can't really rate either, as I'm staying away from Pikes.

If you're interested, check out www.dogsofwaronline.com . Community dedicated to Dogs of War, and have it's own fan list that is being developed to bring Dogs of War up to date. Also welcome to seek advice and show off your models there.

Condottiere
25-02-2010, 06:25
1. It depends on whether you want to be defensive or aggressive in the magic phase, both are good in their own ways.

2. Ricco's, if you know you're not facing Fear or terror causing enemies. 10 Leopards took out a Waaghboss on a Wyvern once (he was overconfident).

3. Yes, just keep them focussed.

4. Light armour is crap, all things considered, so either none or heavy.

Bloodknight
25-02-2010, 08:02
1.Which is better, a Truthsayer or a Dark Emissary and where can I get the rules for me to field them.

In general terms, the Truthsayer is more useful. He is a semi-capable fighter (4+ inv, 2 S5 attacks), a good unit leader (LD9), adds +1 to dispel and his lore is IMHO much better than that of the Dark Emissary. The DE has a couple of lame damage spells and generally high casting values, while the TS has a good support lore with low casting values.



2.Which ROR unit would be better, Ricco's Republican Guard with the +1 WS or Leapolds Leopards,who are immune to psychology.

Depends. ItP has become much more useful over the last couple of years because more stuff causes Fear. The Leopard company is pretty expensive for Pikemen, though, and I wouldn't field Pikemen in a tournament army anyway.


3.Thinking about using the Bearmen, are they an effective unit?

Yes. The Marauders are ok, don't run from getting shot at and they're an excellent delivery system for an absolute beast of a combat character. Don't forget to field at least one Wizard with Lore of the Beasts. Cast Bear's Anger on Beorg with 2-3 dice, if possible. He'll become so scary (T6, 4+ inv 8 attacks at S7 that hit almost everything on 2 or 3+) that your opponent will usually draw scrolls for that spell.

I like to put a character on foot into that unit and cast Bear's anger on him, too (I like the Lore of Beasts anyway because the DoW have lots of lackluster characters on foot that can get very dangerous with that spell cast on them).



4.I'm going to be using at least 1 unit of regular pikemen, so is heavy armor worth the points or should I just ignore it.

Pikemen are so expensive that the 20 points or so you're going to spend on HA isn't going to break your bank, but it's not mandatory, IMHO, since they come with LA anyway. That said, Pikes suck.

Slayerthane
25-02-2010, 17:09
It's hard to go completely magic heavy when you need to spend a hero slot on a useless Paymaster.

How is this guy useless? The Paymaster is in effect a cheap BSB, and besides most DoW armies are magic heavy anyway, and all their combat units are usually RoR so this guy is the only one you would really equip for combat. That being said give him enchanted shield and sword of might, mounted on a barded warhorse and you get a decent CC character who is cheap by the standards of even an empire army. I don't have the DoW list with me but I think this combo of paymaster will run you about 105pts. A similarly equipped empire character will run you roughly 50pts more.

I think a Paymaster is invaluable in an otherwise subpar human army, RoR aside of course.

Besides, its very easy to go magic heavy,relatively at least, even with a Paymaster in tow. Get a lvl 4 wizard (give him 2 scrolls and 2 power stones) and a lvl 2 (scroll and power stone), this way you'll get effectively 10PD a turn, 5DD and 3 scrolls. Not Shabby. Add in a Truthsayer who is essentially an Archlector, spells are similar to prayers of sigmar only better, and that's a nasty magic phase. I would probably just go with 2 cannons, a lvl 4, lvl 2 and paymaster but I don't play many tourneys.

Bloodknight
25-02-2010, 17:14
I think a Paymaster is invaluable in an otherwise subpar human army, RoR aside of course.

The paymaster should not use up a slot, just like the Bretonnian BSB. It's adding insult to injury, really.

I think you overlooked the part that he makes the whole army take panic checks when he dies, which will usually happen when he gets into combat because every other hero is better than him, and even some champions are already dangerous. I wouldn't describe a WS4 2A model as a decent fighter unless it's a wizard.

In fact, the only other WS4 2A BSB in the game is the one nobody takes, the Tomb Kings Icon Bearer.

Slayerthane
25-02-2010, 17:24
The paymaster should not use up a slot, just like the Bretonnian BSB. It's adding insult to injury, really.

Most people would make the same argument against playing Dogs of War at all. I still think the benefits outweigh the costs. True every unit has to take a panic test when he is captured, but they also hate that unit which captured him so there's a bonus as well. Anyway, I think any DoW player should by definition expect to take their lumps of sugar will some lumps of salt. ;)

@OP: I would agree that Ricco's Republican Guard is preferable to Leopold's Leopard company. Also, if you don't have Voland's Venators included in your list I would definitely consider it.

Bloodknight
25-02-2010, 17:47
Most people would make the same argument against playing Dogs of War at all

I wouldn't say that, I like the army a lot. It's my biggest army, the models are just so great :)

Condottiere
25-02-2010, 21:18
The paymaster is a little like Goblin Fear, an interesting rule.

However, it's the weak point in any DoW army and you can't buff him up properly.

Jericho
26-02-2010, 18:37
I'm gonna ignore the other problems with the list and actually give my feedback lol :D

I prefer Republican Guard to Leopard Company. WS4 is very handy to avoid being hit on 3+ by your opponents. Don't expect to hit on 3+ yourself very often though (although it is dead sexy when you do since many WS2-3 troops are relatively squishy). ITP is handy, but you really pay a ton for it and IIRC they lose heavy armor in the trade.

I definitely agree with some of the other posters in that Duelists w/ pistol are amazing, Bearmen with Bear's Anger cast on Beorg is nucking futs, and the Truthsayer is a godsend.

Unless you get really unlucky with his spell rolls, he will be a huge boost to your army. 5+ ward saves for a unit, every unit gets 1 model back (including Ogres!) and all characters are healed, +1 to hit RIP, Unbreakable for a round, these are all great. The 1 and 6 spells are really lacking most of the time, but the other ones are definitely worth chucking dice at and he's a very versatile character in the other phases of the game.

mistrmoon
26-02-2010, 22:09
Does bears anger work on Beorg? bears anger says it works on a character and isn't beorg only a named unit champion? Granted he has lord level stats but he's still a unit champion.

inq.serge
27-02-2010, 11:37
AFAIK; Bears anger work on Beorg.

Also adding Belladonna and giving Beorg her steroid potion is an awsome addition.

≈9 St8 WS7 or something with 4 T7 Wounds? Yes please.

Slayerthane
02-03-2010, 19:28
AFAIK; Bears anger work on Beorg.

Also adding Belladonna and giving Beorg her steroid potion is an awsome addition.

≈9 St8 WS7 or something with 4 T7 Wounds? Yes please.

Oh man, that is even more nucking futs. I'm surprised someone didn't already mention that, although Belladonna is expensive for what she does I think.

Condottiere
02-03-2010, 22:37
Depends on the scale of the game; deploy Belladonna when your opponent is fielding ten characters.

someone2040
02-03-2010, 22:58
How is this guy useless? The Paymaster is in effect a cheap BSB, and besides most DoW armies are magic heavy anyway, and all their combat units are usually RoR so this guy is the only one you would really equip for combat. That being said give him enchanted shield and sword of might, mounted on a barded warhorse and you get a decent CC character who is cheap by the standards of even an empire army. I don't have the DoW list with me but I think this combo of paymaster will run you about 105pts. A similarly equipped empire character will run you roughly 50pts more.

I think a Paymaster is invaluable in an otherwise subpar human army, RoR aside of course.
I would gladly pay the 25 points (or is it 35, cant remember) to be a BSB in a regular Empire army over taking a Paymaster.
The Paymaster, is a BSb who has...
1) Worse stats than a regular Captain.
2) Causes a Panic test on everything not immune to psych if he dies.
3) Can't be equipt with anything decent to protect him.
4) Can't be equipt with a magic banner anyway, so refer to point 3 - can't even make use of the fact he can't be given a magic banner.

The Paymaster is possibly one of the worst character choices in the entire system. If he had Captain stats, wouldn't be as bad, but still easy to kill and has no upside of being a BSB (Other than... being a BSB).

The Paymaster, Pikes, Insanely Overpriced Command and lack of magic items are the weaknesses in the Dogs of War list. Almost everything else is golden and fairly spot on. Ok, some discrepencies in Regiments of Renown usefulness and costs... but if we had any of hte above, it'd go a long way to making the list workable.

@Lucrezzia Belladonna
Yeah... she's fairly expensive. In fact, all of our special characters are questionable due to taking up an extra hero slot as well (And not having seen a revision in about 7 years). But Lucrezzia is probably the better one out of the lot. Decent lord level caster, buff's up characters, and can poison the enemy for victory points before the game even begins. But damn she's expensive.

Haravikk
03-03-2010, 12:01
1. the warhammer annual 2003 or one of the warhammer anual books from around that time, if you still dont have the paper pamphlet from the campaign.
Didn't it also appear in a White Dwarf issue? I don't suppose anyone remembers which one, as that's likely where I've kept the list, it was a separate mini army book if I recall correctly? I really need to sort out my White Dwarfs into some kind of order...

Canadian_Khan
13-03-2010, 15:34
Speaking of Characters... I don't want to hack the thread but aren't Borgio, Ghazak and Lucrezzia from the "not playable anymore" chronicle? I tough we could only use them in very friendly game.

If not, i'd seriously think about putting Ghazak in my oglah khan's wolfrider and cutting the cursed company... lol

Condottiere
13-03-2010, 16:50
Ask your opponent, and let him examine the profile; none are actually over the top.