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elbigsam
27-02-2010, 17:29
When list building, I want to play to the strengths of my force.

What are the strengths of the regular ol spacemarines? Where should my focus lie?

CrownAxe
27-02-2010, 17:40
What?

If you don't know now, how will you actually play it?

enigma-96
27-02-2010, 17:42
Versatility... but not too much? Hmmm that's the best example I can give when building a Vanilla marine list.

In depth I would say you should try and multi-role many of your units but don't give them two roles that are so different from one another that the unit loses a ton of power because of your versatility, UNLESS both roles are so overkill anyways that you don't always need to be doing one or the other.

A good example of this would be the land speeder: You could give it a Typhoon ML and an assault cannon making it good against light vehicles but also still decent against infantry OR you could give it a heavy flamer and a multi-melta both of which, especially in a squad of three, are overkill against their intended targets if you use 2.

This example extends to basically the whole army, I.E. Assault Marines take melta instead of flamer, sterns take a few combi of each, etc.

Other than that the strength of the space marines is their ease of mechanization and you should almost always have your standard 10 man foot squads in a rhino since foot marines don't mesh well with your other units.

Last note DON'T overspend on your HQ or ELITE slots seriously that is one of the biggest SM player mistakes I see and it almost always gets them butchered every single game, your elite choices are nice but they are best used in small doses with the support of the rest of the army.

Radium
27-02-2010, 17:44
The greatest strength of the Ultramarines lies in their Plot Armour. And the fact they get to ignore the Codex as written by their own primarch yet are somehow the most Codex-approved chapter out there...?

It's the combined arms tactics and the individual strength and skill of each space marine.

Archangel_Ruined
27-02-2010, 18:00
Flexibility combined with forgiveness/resilience when things go wrong. Pure infantry is good enough, tacs, assault marines, devs and termies can give anyone a headache. The other stuff is often just icing on the cake.

Lord of Worms
27-02-2010, 18:06
The problem is when "general versatility" becomes interpreted as taking only missile launchers, which suck at everything. I honestly fail to see why Blood Angels and Space Wolves need to be that much better than regular marines in "close combat". It's this bunk plot device where everybody needs to be 9000 power levels higher than everybody else at at least one thing. That's what defines them, and validates their existence. Its as if only the Iron Warriors knew how to conduct sieges or only the Salamanders have any mechanical skill. That's clearly idiotic and makes no sense at all, yet this is how people approach it.
Apparently people find it "unfluffy" that Sgt. Bill of the Ultramarines could be a siege expert. Why? Because the Ultramarines don't have any experts! They are equally
mediocre at every possible discipline! So, they can all build a primitive bolt-action rifle or service a rhino, but far be it for one of them to have an understanding of metallurgy!
/sarcasm

What I like about 40k is the ability of the player to use his imagination and create an army that grows with him. As such, I choose to imagine Matt Ward and CS Goto into non-existance, and tone down the OTT nonsense for 12 year olds a few notches.

Play how you want to play, and magnetize all your weapon options. A four paragraph blurb full of archetypes and OTT advertising is no substitute for your own imagination.

enigma-96
27-02-2010, 18:54
Amen brother amen, I agree with your statement entirely but you seem to be a little bit confused as to what the topic is. He isn't asking how to play a fluffy ultramarines army he's asking what are the strengths of the Space Marine Codex, which could be any chapter he wants it to be, and so far most of the posts have been about that. Though I will agree his choice of title is a little misleading his actual post is what he really wants to know so in this case it seems like ultramarines is being used like Warseer vets use it Codex Space Marine = Codex Ultramarines.

I also have to agree with lord of worms on the "general versatility" point as you don't want your army to be okay at everything but master of nothing, instead you want it to be master of a few varied things, and okay at the rest. And yeah Missile launchers aren't bad weapons but they should always be your secondary choice because that's what they're meant for, I.E. if your taking a unit that has a lascannon and it has the option to take a ML in it as well as a secondary weapon than take the ML instead of another lascannon so you can atleast respond to an infantry problem if it arises OR if you take a HVB and have the option for a missile launcher instead of another HVB take the missile launcher so you can attack vehicles if you need too.
(NOTE: This unit doesn't exist and is being used to make a point, obviously their are situations where this is terrible advice I'm merely stating it to show the general philosophy of how I use the Vanilla dex)

This idea can be applied to many of your units but some units are better off being left as specialists, I.E. Dev Squads should have a defined purpose from the get go and should not take more than 1 type of weapon.

elbigsam
27-02-2010, 19:18
thank you for the comments, im still tweaking my 1k pt list and building to 1250.

To me the missile launcher seems pretty good, its only major fault being dealing with truly high armor targets, suck as av 14. im planning on a couple chainfists in my terminator squad, as well as some melta on my tacticals. ive got my non mech list pretty much where i want it.

2x dreadnaugt
1 squad of 5 termies
2x10 man tac squads
1x 5 man scout squad
1x librarian

this leaves me a good bit of space to play with, nearly 100 points. I can fill the points with more terminators or scouts for now, but i am considering some land speeders.

jt.glass
27-02-2010, 21:11
Last note DON'T overspend on your HQ or ELITE slots seriously that is one of the biggest SM player mistakes I see and it almost always gets them butchered every single game, your elite choices are nice but they are best used in small doses with the support of the rest of the army.This man speaks the truth. I'm almost always tempted to spend too much on Terminators, and I almost always end up regretting it! :shifty:


jt.

elbigsam
27-02-2010, 22:53
Muahaha, I've got like half my points in elites!!!