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skank
03-03-2010, 16:25
Just wondering if anyone knows any good ways to take down Kholek the uber-shaggoth? Specifically with ogres but any tips would help.

GuyLeCheval
03-03-2010, 16:36
Ogres... Slavegiant, fully kitted out Tyrant with D3 wound thing? Tie him up with gnoblars? Shoot at him with around 100 gnoblar shots?

Bash him into the ground with your S6 Ironguts?

Don't know really...

Dantès
03-03-2010, 16:45
Take a big unit of gnoblars...around 50 in one unit, and sharp stuff him down!

theunwantedbeing
03-03-2010, 16:46
Pit of shades/Spirit of the forge are the 2 most effetcive ways.
Neither useful for ogres of course.

Beastkiller Tyrant, Tenderiser.
Average damage being 5-6 wounds.
Giantkiller Tyrant, Tenderiser.
Average damage being 4-5 wounds.

Spangleshard is useful for staying alive, as is casting trollguts on the guy.
Otherwise Kholek is quite capable of killing him.
Average damage being 7-8 wounds on you, so the regen is pretty key.

Similarly you need to get a bit lucky when kholek rolls to wound, as you really want him rolling 2's not 6's as your far more likely to save those with the spangleshard.

Other than dogs of war cannon, a tyrant with the tenderiser is your best bet.

Failing that, multiple hero's weilding great weapons.
Or gnoblars.

Malorian
03-03-2010, 17:46
I faced him once and killed him by turn two with warmachines... then again I was using dwarfs ;)

In a non-tailored ogre list I would try to redirect him with gnoblars and then hit him with my tenderiser bruiser as a last resort. In a tailored ogre list I would have a couple of dogs of war cannons :evilgrin:

Sygerrik
03-03-2010, 18:31
Anything that targets his woeful I; Brass Orb, Cracks Call, Pit of Shades, Cloying Quagmire. Giants have an attack that targets I-- thump with club, right? Do Slavegiants still have that?

Rogzor87
03-03-2010, 19:51
Yeah. I been trying to figure out how to kill him with Skaven myself without using Magic.

Malorian
03-03-2010, 19:55
Do Slavegiants still have that?

Slavegiants don't have clubs, they have chains...

Instead of forcing an initiative test it forces a toughness test...


It's all really sad... :cries:


So in summary, slavegiants should not be used against larger targets.



Yeah. I been trying to figure out how to kill him with Skaven myself without using Magic.

Jezzails are the answer. Shoot him up, redirect with slaves when he gets close, and shoot him up some more.

If worst comes to worst the fellblade can work great.

hellharlequin
03-03-2010, 19:55
@Rogzor87
Hellpit abomination?

skank
03-03-2010, 19:56
He's toughness 6 so gnoblar sharpstuff is out, can't scratch him. Slavegiants are terrible at killing large targets as the thump with clup is replaced by 'throttle with chain' which tests against toughness instead of inititive.
Unfortunatly beastkiller does not stack with tenderiser.

Besides i have a fixed list for a tournament so can't take stuff for him particularly. Got a tenderiser tyrant (of course) with greedyfist and ward but he won't stand much of a chance surviving more than one round.

Yep, guess i'm reduced to useing gnoblars to try and hold him...

Sygerrik
03-03-2010, 20:04
Slavegiants don't have clubs, they have chains...

Instead of forcing an initiative test it forces a toughness test...


It's all really sad... :cries:


So in summary, slavegiants should not be used against larger targets.




Jezzails are the answer. Shoot him up, redirect with slaves when he gets close, and shoot him up some more.

If worst comes to worst the fellblade can work great.

Well, Slavegiants are better against Elves and Skaven, while normal Giants are better against Ogres and WoC...
Actually, Slavegiants get the raw end of that stick, since Thump/Throttle only target Big Guys who tend to have low I and high T.

Malorian
03-03-2010, 20:08
Actually, Slavegiants get the raw end of that stick, since Thump/Throttle only target Big Guys who tend to have low I and high T.

Exactly my point ;)

(Remember we were talking about killing Kholek.)

riotknight
03-03-2010, 20:56
Leadbelchers?

Yeah Ogres only have a few options, and sadly the best bet is likely to get charged, called out in a challenge and then smashed to pieces by Kholek

Rogzor87
03-03-2010, 21:12
@Rogzor87
Hellpit abomination?

If Kholek goes first the HPA is probly done for.

And if HPA goes first, then there is a chance. But T6, 8 wounds, 2+ Armor. Gives him a good chance for Kholek to live

But this isn't about skaven its about Ogre's and I don't know much about them ):

Use Gnoblars and swarm him? He's not Unbreakable! Size/Ranks/Standards/Flank and such!

The_Bureaucrat
03-03-2010, 21:33
Beastkiller doesn't work with tenderizer btw. Leadbelchers would take way too many shots barring extreme luck. Hunters are ok... I don't have my book on me but besides the tenderizer I would use.

Siegebreaker :+3 str uses oppenents In instead of WS ( so hitting on a 3+)
Mawseeker: +1 T
Greyback pelt: -1 to hit, move through difficult terrain with no penalty
Tailsman of protection 6+ ward:
+ cast trollguts on the Tyrant

Kholek will average 70/72 of a wound a turn (again I don't have my book might be wrong, but it should be 4+ to hit, 3+ wound 4+ regen and 6+ ward)
Tyrant will average 50/18 or about 2.77 wounds ( 3+ to hit 2+ to wound no save with 8 str)

Throw him in a unit of guts (to give tyrant outnumber,make sure to still challenge him) with a BSB and you will win combat almost everytime, just a question of whether he breaks.

jthdotcom
03-03-2010, 21:35
I have seen it done with 25 gnoblars in one round of combat lol

Sygerrik
03-03-2010, 21:58
Exactly my point ;)

(Remember we were talking about killing Kholek.)

Oh, I agree. I was musing sadly out loud. Poor Slavegiant.

I wonder if the lightning from a Doomwheel counts as lightning for purposes of Kholek being immune to it? Probably. That's tough. If I was facing him with an all-comers list (ie a list with no Brass Orb) I'd roll on the Ruin lore and hope for Cracks Call.

skank
03-03-2010, 22:23
I wonder if the lightning from a Doomwheel counts as lightning for purposes of Kholek being immune to it? Probably. That's tough.

Would work great, get him all frenzied up then waste him against 23pt giant rat units or some such.

Unfortunatly ogres have no lightning based attacks.

Jack of Blades
04-03-2010, 00:39
And if HPA goes first, then there is a chance. But T6, 8 wounds, 2+ Armor. Gives him a good chance for Kholek to live

Where do you get the 2+ from? heavy armour + 4+ scaly skin = 3+, no?

Dantès
04-03-2010, 01:19
@Rogzor87
Hellpit abomination?

For Skaven...poisoned wind globadiers! While he's fighting the HPA! After being shot by jezzails! Then flank charge with a death frenzied unit of giant rats with bless with filth!

Witchblade
04-03-2010, 03:44
Where do you get the 2+ from? heavy armour + 4+ scaly skin = 3+, no?
4+ scaly skin +2 AS = 2+ AS.

Note the difference between +2 and 2+.

Jack of Blades
04-03-2010, 05:18
4+ scaly skin +2 AS = 2+ AS.

Note the difference between +2 and 2+.

Eh, I haven't played since 6th edition so my memory is very faint. I've always been confused by this because there's AFAIK nowhere that it says whether you add +1 or as many points as it actually is, so 4+ would add a +3 to your armour save if you already have a 3+. But I guess it's the latter :p