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swanky whoopee
10-02-2006, 23:50
With the release of the new Tau Codex, I was thinking of making an army of humans that have defected to the Tau Empire. Of course, since an army composed of entirely human auxilaries accompanied by an Ethereal would fail miserably.

Thus, would it be appropriate (fluff-wise) to make an army using the full Tau list, but substitute humans in (replacing bare heads with SM or IG heads to show the difference)? Would the Tau be trusting enough to grant humans access to their standard-issue weaponry?

My basic story was going to involve a neutral Fallen chapter being accepted by the Tau after the Horus Heresy, and in the years to follow, gained their trust, allowing them to replace their Imperial weaponry with Tau technology.

I'm relatively new so I'm sorry if I missed an earlier thread or this just sounds meaningless, but I like the Tau's style of play, although I don't particularly enjoy their background or appearance (in terms of phenotype).

I also enjoy classic anime shows, such as Neo Genesis Evanglion, and the original Gundam series, and wanted to model my army after such appearances. The Tau technology and armor / vehicle look fits perfectly, but I don't like the look of unarmored Tau without helmets (their faces are just ugly to me).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

charlie_c67
11-02-2006, 00:52
In a word, no. They offer lasguns, but not they're top notch stuff IIRC, they're not that naive!

fracas
11-02-2006, 02:00
if you want to convert guardsmen to hold pulse rifles and count them as firewarriors i'd doubt many if any would object

Hellebore
11-02-2006, 04:36
Alot of people with tau armies have done just that, giving humans tau equipment and counting them as fire warriors.

the problem comes when you talk about the marine chapter.

The Horus Heresy occured 10,000 years ago, and the tau have been active for the last 250 years, so you can't really have a marine chapter defecting to them just after the HH.

Hellebore

Khaine's Messenger
11-02-2006, 04:38
Would the Tau be trusting enough to grant humans access to their standard-issue weaponry?

Pulse weapons? Possibly. Railrifles...ehhh. Battlesuits and related gear...in a word, no. Battlesuit assignment is a political tool of the Celestrial Caste, and it is unlikely that the Fire Caste would much approve of them getting the cream of Tau technology, especially after the double-agent mercenaries from Kill Team. Tanks are iffy, but more likely.


My basic story was going to involve a neutral Fallen chapter being accepted by the Tau after the Horus Heresy

Since the Tau were merely a twinkle in the eye of the universe in M31, I find it unlikely they would have done so immediately afterwards....


allowing them to replace their Imperial weaponry with Tau technology.

Keep in mind that Tau technology in M38 is not really the same as it is in M41. As such, replacing their technology with Tau tech may simply be a change of like for like in terms of earlier models and designs; later, more powerful stuff may be kept for the Tau themselves, so anything they actually have may as well be hand-me-downs that make them little more effective than the weapons they already have. Also, did you say "chapter"? As in "space marines"?


but I don't like the look of unarmored Tau without helmets (their faces are just ugly to me).

Then don't use unhelmeted Tau. I don't. :) O'course, even if you do headswaps, the feet and hands are going to be difficult to explain....

Zurai
11-02-2006, 05:21
As others mentioned, it's quite impossible for any Heresy-era marines to have defected to the Tau. There were no Tau as a sentient race, let alone as an empire, at that point. The first contact with the Tau was pre-tech for the Tau, in late M35. The Tau did not expand into space until M37 to M38. Any contact whatsoever before then goes completely against all currently available fluff.

setekhite
11-02-2006, 07:28
Hmmm.

Well, humans with Fire Warrior weaponry is certainly viable - after all, the Gue'Vesa entry allows for pulse weapons and markerlights. You could model Battlesuits, etc as Sentinels - which were, after all, developed by the isolated human colonies of the Knight worlds IIRC. The analogy would only really break down when it came to grav-tanks.

What I don't get, though, is where the Space Marines fit in. Timeline aside, you could subsitute your Heresy-era renegades with more modern deserters along the lines of the Red Corsairs; no doubt the Tau would be fascinated by the chance to examine a fully-intact suit of power armour with someone to explain its systems. But there's nothing in the Tau list that would justify (or need) the inclusion of Space Marines to explain it - a basic marine is still an order of magnitude harder than a Fire Warrior.

Nazguire
11-02-2006, 07:40
With the release of the new Tau Codex, I was thinking of making an army of humans that have defected to the Tau Empire. Of course, since an army composed of entirely human auxilaries accompanied by an Ethereal would fail miserably.

Would the Tau be trusting enough to grant humans access to their standard-issue weaponry?

I'm relatively new so I'm sorry if I missed an earlier thread or this just sounds meaningless, but I like the Tau's style of play, although I don't particularly enjoy their background or appearance (in terms of phenotype).

I also enjoy classic anime shows, such as Neo Genesis Evanglion, and the original Gundam series, and wanted to model my army after such appearances. The Tau technology and armor / vehicle look fits perfectly, but I don't like the look of unarmored Tau without helmets (their faces are just ugly to me).

Trusting enough to grant humans access to their standard issues technology? Sure...as long as it doesnt' include Crisis suits, Fire Warrior Carapace Armour, Stealth suits, railrifles etc. Basically anything that seems too advanced for second class citizens to have would mean that the Human defectors wouldn't be granted access to it.

Which isn't suprising. Humanity controls the stars and is the prime reason why the Tau aren't advancing as well as they'd like. When you have a million plus world controlling empire at your doorstep with more Guard regiments then you have Tau, it sort of hampers your plans. So naturally the Tau are going to be biased towards them (the humans) and not want to give such aggressive mammals such as we Humans access to anything that could help them hinder the Tau'va.

So giving your Auxililaries pulse rifles, carbines, markerlights etc is fine thematically and background wise. Equipping them with carapace armour that the Fire Warriors have is pushing it but still realistic if the Human Auxililaries are descendents of a Damocles Gulf Crusade regiment that was abandoned (are there women allowed in the IG regiments? Because if not then how did they reproduce? *shudder). Giving them Crisis suits is a no no because it is as much a symbol as a kick your ass piece of technology.

Hands and feet can be remedied by clipping them off and replacing them with Cadian/Catachan gun hands/boots. Looks fine if done with care and not an ass to put a gun on.

Zurai
11-02-2006, 08:37
You might be able to get away with using armored-up marines with converted jet packs as crisis suits. Same 3+ save, jet pack movement, etc. None of the crisis weaponry is signifigantly high tech enough to make it unreasonable for human auxiliary marines to have them - they already have equivalents to all the crisis suit gear. The wargear/support systems would be debatable, though. If it were me, I'd try to stay away from non-hardwired support systems (ie, shield generators and target arrays are out).

I don't think twin-rail Broadsides would be reasonable, but you could probably get away with the twin-plasma version on termies with some tau broadside bits.

Tanks would be a problem. There's really nothing the Imperium has that would be even close to what a Tau tank does.


EDIT: Fluffwise, the rank and file of the auxiliary army would be normal humans in carapace armor, while the crisis suit Marines would be a rare and dying breed - without access to the Imperium's resources, it's harder and harder to maintain working power armor, termie armor, geneseed banks, and so on. Termies-as-Broadsides would be as revered as Dreadnoughts are in the normal legions.

EDIT2: Of course, after re-reading the original post, that's not quite what you were asking. Basically, I don't think the Tau would have any real problem with sharing their basic infantry weapons or any of the weapons the Imperium already has equivalents to - plasma rifles, missile pods, flamers, fusion blasters, probably burst cannons. Railguns would be out of the picture in my mind - they're one of the key technical advantages the Tau have and nobody has anything to match it. Railrifles are in the same boat, of course. As far as tanks go, you could probably make a case for having a small unit of Hammerheads and Devilfish available to a long-established human world, but they'd be very rare. I've already covered how you could fluff up having crisis suits or broadsides.

fracas
11-02-2006, 10:13
i serious doubt marines genestocks and mindset would ever submit to the ethereal will and the greater good.
if the emperor wasn't good enuf, doubt anyone other than the chaos gods or their own ego would suffice

EarthScorpion
11-02-2006, 15:11
Background-wise there is basically no reason why marines would join the Tau Empire en masse (ie an entire chapter) You could get away with all your Fire Warriors being guardsmen raised as 2nd class Tau citizens, and they !might! be allowed to fly Devilfish, but access to Battlesuits is extremely limited even among Tau.

You could, however, convert Sentinals with retro-fitted Tau weaponry and jump thrusters. You could justify it by saying that they had salvaged it with permision from the main forces

Commanderxenos
11-02-2006, 17:26
Swanky Whoopee I understand you wanting to have humans using the advanced Tau Tech. I feel the same way. But I personaly don't want to make a full human tau empire force. I would just have my commander be human. But I am unsure of if and how I would do so. The only way I could see any such thing happening is either he takes advantage of some tau, he steals it from them, or he saves the life of an Ethereal. I personally might try and have my leader based off of the last one, but I don't know of anyone would agree.

And how would I model my commander into a human? Well, isn't it now possible for Crisis suit pilots to eject? And then a model with a pulse pistol would be put in its place? Well I would model the pilot as a human, and model it with some tau look. Also remember the Tau language. A human commander wouldn't be Shas'o. Humans are gue'la (human) or gue'vesa'la human auxiliary or something like that. And Human Auxiliary Veterans are Gue'vesa'ui. Now, I cannot tell you what every human would be called, or anything like that, but try and incorperate the tau language into your force.

swanky whoopee
11-02-2006, 20:38
I guess I'll have to assume that a portion of the Tau would allow them access to their technology, and in keeping with fluff, I plan on keeping my army very small (probably 1500 points or below).

Or would it be more appropriate to say that the Tau technology was stolen?

Typheron
11-02-2006, 22:44
stolen or looted tech would be doable, especially if they were renegades given they would have to take whatever they could.

although the comments about Tau and their tech is right, they dont just give it to anyone. It also depends on wither or not the humans would take it as they tend to be massivly xenophobic about anything that is not human.

damz451
12-02-2006, 01:43
well most of the humans in the tau empire would have been born into the empire, the i.g left behind after the failed crusade would surely be long dead and it would be their offspring that would fight with the tau. If the humans were brought up in tau sociaty they would probobly be well trusted.

Battlesuits were probobly built for firewarriors physical paramets, so a human might be too tall to fit into it. It could be possible that some marines were left behind also but they would be long dead from the gulf crusade since marines live half a melenia at the most and from what i can tell they dont usually have children (seen no evidence of children marines except from the primarchs). Also marines are essentially brainwashed into loyalty so might be a bit difficult to get them to change side unless they turned traitor such as the astral claws.

chances are the scythes of the emperor would be the most likely to be in the tau empire since they were recently destroyed in 40k timeline and fought against the tau (i think). but marines are not that well tought about their equipment, if a techmarine swapped sides it would be more useful.

Kandarin
12-02-2006, 06:07
chances are the scythes of the emperor would be the most likely to be in the tau empire since they were recently destroyed in 40k timeline and fought against the tau (i think). but marines are not that well tought about their equipment, if a techmarine swapped sides it would be more useful.

That's an interesting thought. It's the same for the Lamenters; Despite being mauled by Kraken, their edict of a hundred-year crusade stayed on the books. If the remaining Marines (I believe the Cursed Founding article said three companies survived) stuck with that course, chances are the Chapter would be completely wiped out.

Since they were in the Tau's vicinity anyway, and since the Imperium hasn't exactly done much to endear itself to them, I can see whoever's in charge of a remnant company of the Scythes or Lamenters deciding that it's the 'will of the Emperor' that they join the Tau...and conveniently stay alive in the process.

But a whole chapter? Practically impossible.

giner
12-02-2006, 09:56
If you used the farsight selection rules that might be more appropriate. As they both limited. Also if you do have marines (I wouldn't use many) they might be considered great CC tutors.