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View Full Version : The "rarity" of imperial equipment.



shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 12:30
I've always been annoyed by Imperial background. Almost every weapon they have is in "dwindling supply" or almost out of production like terminator armour. The million strong worlds of the imperium cannot have such supply shortages and continue to operate, it just destroys my suspension of disbelief.

As far as I'm concerned, the Imperium can produde large enough amounts of plasma weaponry, terminator armour, dreadnoghts and whatnot. How does a new chapter get terminators? You can't find that many in old hulks. How do the 100 guard regiments founded continually every few months/years get equipped with "rare" plasma guns? If they were so rare, they would have stopped suppplying the grunts centuries ago! Dreadnoughts must be getting destroyed all the time, lets be "realistic" :rolleyes: , they get hit by a few lascannons and their dead, they aren't so invincible that a chapter can go for 10,000 years with the same set of dreadnoughts. There's only so many times you can repair one chassis I imagine, they must have dozens of new ones in production waiting to replace them and equip new chapters.

No, these "rare" items are so rare, that only 1 in 10 marines can have a plasma gun, and that only 1 in 10 marines can have terminator armour. They are just produced slower and distributed evenly among chapters. I won't accept this "so rare and dwindling" crap anymore to the point where every item the Imperium loses is unreplacable. Its a nice narrative, but it doesn't go with the flow of the rest of the fluff, 1000 chapters billions of guardsmen etc. Terminators and dreadnoughts and land raiders, they must get blown to hell all the time, they need to be continually replaced, and they are!
The Imperium is hard up, but not quite to the level of the official background to my mind. They're an industrial behemoth, no matter what you kill or destroy, the Imperium will replace it two-fold!

I won't have it any other way! :p

malika
23-05-2005, 12:44
"rule of cool" and GW's inconsistency

Sai-Lauren
23-05-2005, 12:52
I don't think Rare in this case means that it's virtually non-existant, handed down from generation to generation, it means that there's a reason why the uber-powergaming munchkins can't have an entire chapter of marines outfitted with terminator armour, carrying twin-linked plasma weapons and floating around like landspeeders.

But there's also the point that not every kill on the battlefield is a kill. A better phrase would be taken out of action. The dreadnought that's been "killed" might have had it's control systems scrambled, or the plasma gun that apparently overloaded might only have emergency vented, shutting it down for the duration of the battle whilst it cools down and scalding the guardsman carrying it - rendering him out of action until the medics stick him in the burn treatment unit for a week or so.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 12:58
Yeah, though what I'm annoyed at is the fluff for, say, dreadnoughts, where "these ancient machines of destruction's secrets of creation were lost milllenia ago blah blah blah", its just not a sensible fluff route to take.

malika
23-05-2005, 13:12
Well if you were to look at it from a political/economical point of view it would mean that this is the way the Adeptus Mechanicus keeps the monopoly on technology, hence its powerful and independent position in the Imperium.

Briareos
23-05-2005, 13:18
This is just one of the most obvious aspect of the GW's fluff were the 'rule of (suposedly) cool' squashes common sense, because the developpers couldn't be bothered (or weren't given the means) to develop the background properly.

It would have been so easy to say : "In no small part due to the emotional trauma of the Heresy, the Lords of Terra have put into place very tight control mechanisms on the production of advanced weapon systems." This way you have a slow trickle of high-tech weapons not because the designs are lost or arcane, but because of political and social reasons.

Delicious Soy
23-05-2005, 13:28
Well I guess you need to think about what rarity really means. The huge size of the Adpetus Mechanicus means that pretty much anything can be forged in the numbers that they appear. Then again we must also realise that players pick the weapons, developers pick the background.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 13:50
Maybe the developers should be more representative. I never want to hear any variation of the "rare and out of production" line ever again for a weapon/unit that appears in every battle, and probably get destroyed in it too.

Yorkiebar
23-05-2005, 13:52
The reasons for inconsistency are the need for balance in the tabletop game. The 'balanced' tabetop system doesn't reflect the fluff that space marines are near-invincible warriors who could tear most humans apart with their bare hands (e.g in Space Wolf, even new inexperienced space marines are able to kill thousands of chaos cultists and crush rocks with their fists).

shutupSHUTUP!!!
23-05-2005, 14:00
Yes I know that yorkiebar, the fluff still goes too far on what I've previously said. Making the background more sensible in regards to the production and availability of many items wouldn't upset balance.

And books like Space Wolf are another symptom of this need to be cool, oh look, he killed a 1000 guys by himself! . We certainly don't need this crap either. In fact I'm starting to get a strong aversion to all this nonsence.

Castigator
23-05-2005, 15:08
Well, also keep in mind that the tabletop games you play are those rare occasions where the sides are balanced out.


I'd imagine that any halfway capable space marine captain wouldn't engage in combat if he doesn't have some significant advantage in numbers, surprise, position, whatever.

Most battles you'd see in the "normal" course of the imperial year to year warfare (fluffwise) would likely by much more forgiving to the hardware, (like, say 10.000 pts of Space Marines surprising 1000 pts of Orcs at night or a Chapter clearing cities full of Hormagounts, house by house, without a Big Bug anywhere in sight) but in effect quite boring to replicate on a wargame table.

War simply doesn't happen the way a 40k Game is played.

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-05-2005, 15:11
It's only skirmish scale, it wouldn't be a major turning point in a campaign. Now mega battles, those might be, as would be Epic battles. But skirmishes? No.

And Space Marines are often outnumbered [especcially Grey Knights], they are only about 1 million of them after all.

Castigator
23-05-2005, 15:14
And Space Marines are often outnumbered [especcially Grey Knights], they are only about 1 million of them after all.



All the more reasons why they likely wouldn't face their enemys head on like their on a sunday night football game.

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-05-2005, 15:29
They mainly use 'surprise' tactics, they rush in, blast the hell out of some unsuspecting xenos, then get out of there before they get attacked.

Or, that's what they're SUPPOSED to do.

Grey Knights are very good at taking on enemies when supremely outnumbered. They are all powerful-ish psykers, all have nemisis force weapons, most have stormbolters, apart from those with psycannons and incineraters. Alot of them are in terminator armour, those in power armour are used to get rid of the weaker enemies, the people usually used for tying up the terminators while the heavy weaponry gets into the right position.

Kahadras
23-05-2005, 16:18
The problem is the fact that the fluff has been around for so long that it starts to get confused with itself. Basicaly rare stuff like Terminator armour and plasma weaponry CAN still be produced by the Imperium. The problem is the fact that very few people understand how to still make them (remember knowledge is jelously guarded by Techpriests). For Plasma weaponry maybe only 1,000 are produced every century but that many will be lost in battle, destroyed, damaged beyond repair etc. Therefore the amount of plasma weapons will remain relativly the same through the years. Its the same for Terminator armour. The few suits produced every century will replace the irriparably damaged suits or go to a new chapter in order to increase its number of Terminator suits.It has to be noted that new chapters start off with very little in the way of equipment and has to amass it over the centuries.

Kahadras

Bruen
23-05-2005, 17:05
Maybe the developers should be more representative. I never want to hear any variation of the "rare and out of production" line ever again for a weapon/unit that appears in every battle, and probably get destroyed in it too.

Thats just players not following the fluff when they pick their army.

Fluff-wise I imagine that each chapter would have less than 10 Dreads, less than 20 plasma weapons etc.

The problem is that pleayers pack their armies with this "rare" stuff because its effective and because the army lists do not prevent it.

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-05-2005, 17:14
I think they would have around 30 dreads, 3 for each company. And 100 plasma weapons, 10 for each company. They'll have somewhere around 200 terminator suits, although not all veterans would be issued with one/will always wear one.

Briareos
23-05-2005, 17:18
If the army list doesn't prevent stacking, then it is the list not following the fluff, not the players.

The game is horrendously out of synch with the fluff, that's nothing new.

malika
23-05-2005, 17:26
I think they would have around 30 dreads, 3 for each company. And 100 plasma weapons, 10 for each company. They'll have somewhere around 200 terminator suits, although not all veterans would be issued with one/will always wear one.

200 terminator suits? No way! The Dark Angels are the only chapter capable of providing their entire first company with Terminator suits, most chapters would have 100 or less!

100 plasmaweapons? Each squad would have a plasma weapons? Does this also count plasma pistols? Then it would still be less, Dark Angels can take more plasma weapons because they are the First Legion. (hence the rule for heavy plasma guns in their tactical squads)

Dreads? It would really depend on which chapter we are dealing with, I can seriously see chapter who have no dreads or terminators what so ever.

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-05-2005, 18:37
Now that I think about it, 200 is way too much... as would be 100 plasma weapons.

WHAT WAS I THINKING!?

Someone slap me, please.

Yorkiebar
23-05-2005, 18:59
*slap*

Okay, this isn't the wastes, so I should add something useful to this post... terminator suits for first founding chapters would probably be just over 100, maximum of 110. As for less important chapters, maybe only 50 or so, hence the existence of veteran squads who don't wear terminator armour. As malika said, chapters must exist with none of this equipment.

Does anyone know which is rarer; terminator armour or artificer armour?

TheSonOfAbbadon
23-05-2005, 19:08
Artificer I would say.

Rules reason: you get squads of veterans in terminator armour, but only characters can buy artificer armour.

Fluff reason: you get squads of veterans in terminator armour, but you find that very few marines actually wear artificier armour, most prefer terminator armour anyway.

Kahadras
24-05-2005, 09:11
I think they would have around 30 dreads, 3 for each company. And 100 plasma weapons, 10 for each company. They'll have somewhere around 200 terminator suits, although not all veterans would be issued with one/will always wear one.

According to the fluff each chapter has about 50 suits of Terminator armour apart from the Dark angels (give or take a few). I don't know about plasma weaponry but probably in the same region 50 plasma guns, cannons and pistols spread throughout the companies. As for Dredanoughts there is a referance to the Iron Hands only having 8 which is a far more realistic number for a chapter to own.

Kahadras

TheSonOfAbbadon
24-05-2005, 10:51
This is what I get for making up stuff.

So out of 5,000,000,000,000,000 people in the imperium [500,000 worlds, 10,000,000,000 people each] only 50,000 are terminators? Wow, that is rare!

Castigator
24-05-2005, 15:29
So out of 5,000,000,000,000,000 people in the imperium [500,000 worlds, 10,000,000,000 people each] only 50,000 are terminators? Wow, that is rare!



Well, the current earth population than would qualify for roughly 6% of a terminator suit!

malika
24-05-2005, 15:30
Well there are about a million worlds in the Imperium, population rates vary greatly!

there are about 50.000 terminators in the Space Marine Chapters, then there are the Inquisitors, Adeptus Mechanicus and Adeptus Custodes who have terminator suits. We still dont know how many Grey Knight and Adeptus Custodes Terminators there are.

TheSonOfAbbadon
24-05-2005, 16:03
Oh wait, 1,000,000 worlds, so 10,000,000,000,000,000 people in the imperium.

I estimated at 10 billion people per world, I think that's a fair estimation.

malika
24-05-2005, 17:08
well fair enough, but ok we still dont know how many Adeptus Custodes and Grey Knights there are, since they could have more Terminators

Rykion
24-05-2005, 19:10
Most of the fluff seems to indicate the majority of 40k worlds have populations in the millions not the billions. The majority of the worlds seem to be agricultural or mining colonies that help to support the major worlds that have hive cities.

The rareness of technology and the reliance on the Adeptus Mechanicus makes little sense. Most novels set in 40k, Gaunts Ghosts for instance, basically ignore this part of the fluff. Other parts of the background fluff also make little sense. The size of a Space Marine Chapter is laughable as even 1,000 super troops would be hard pressed to defend or attack a city let alone a planet or starsystem. The only way the Space Marines could be effective and survive is to operate directly as an element of a larger force such as the Imperial Guard. The fluff tells us that the Marines act independently and usually on the company scale. :rolleyes: The 40k setting fluff is interesting, but requires a huge amount of suspension of disbelief.

malika
24-05-2005, 19:49
I think you are misunderstanding how Space Marines are used, for big attacks and defences the Imperial Guard is used, for precise and surgical attacks the Imperium uses Space Marines, for example to take out a specific target like a supply centre or bridge.

Rykion
24-05-2005, 20:15
I think you are misunderstanding how Space Marines are used, for big attacks and defences the Imperial Guard is used, for precise and surgical attacks the Imperium uses Space Marines, for example to take out a specific target like a supply centre or bridge.

That is the logical use of Space Marines. That is not the way the fluff implies they fight. By the fluff, Chapters are completely autonomous units. They do not have to answer to any Imperial General and fight where and how they see fit. The art defintiely shows Space Marines fighting as standard line infantry in major battles. Small, precise strikes coordinated with the Imperial Guard makes sense for Marines, but it is not the way they are portrayed in the background.

Speaking about strangely rare equipment, the fluff that came out with the new rhino a few years ago said it was one of the most common vehicles in the Imperium. Strangely enough only elite units use it. :confused:

malika
24-05-2005, 21:19
An autonomous unit can still be responsible for surgical attacks :eyebrows:

And the art doesnt reflect the fluff too well...just look at the bolters and you will see what I mean ;)

Briareos
24-05-2005, 22:30
The problem is that neither the artwork, nor most BL publications, respect the fluff. The 'rule of cool' squashes all, and continuity be damned... *sigh*

Rykion
24-05-2005, 23:12
An autonomous unit can still be responsible for surgical attacks :eyebrows:

And the art doesnt reflect the fluff too well...just look at the bolters and you will see what I mean ;)

Yes an autonomous unit can make surgical strikes if they choose to, but it sure makes it hard to coordinate. An Imperial General can only make requests of the Marines and hope they decide to do it. It's really not a reliable way for a military unit to operate. It is also just not the action that is described in the fluff which is mostly suicidal charges or holding actions.

I do agree that Space marines should be the special forces type unit that makes quick surgical strikes. It's just that really isn't what most of the fluff indicates.

As for the art, I can't think of anything that can top the terrible old Necromunda cover with the ganger that has a bolt pistol with an ammo clip in the handle and one in the normal forward position. :wtf:

WLBjork
25-05-2005, 11:54
When talking about terminator suits, there are more than just the 2 formations mentioned earlier who have access to unknown quantities of Terminator Armour.

There are also the Space Wolves - the chapters that follow Codex Astartes in terms of organisation (i.e. everyone except the Space Wolves) have access to 50-60 suits of Terminator Armour with the specific exception to this being the Dark Angels and their Successors. Space Wolves are, and probably will continue to be, an enigma in terms of numbers.

The other formation is the Inquisition. They do have some suits of Terminator Armour, but this is probably relatively rarer than in an Astartes Chapter.

With regards to the Rhino, it is more common than the game would have you believe. It is used by the Inquisition, Adeptus Astartes and Adeptus Soritas that we know of. There are Imperial Guard Regiments that use the Rhino rather than the Chimera - although it is strange that there is no allowance for this in the IG codex.

Bruen
25-05-2005, 12:59
the chapters that follow Codex Astartes in terms of organisation (i.e. everyone except the Space Wolves) have access to 50-60 suits of Terminator Armour

We don't really know that though do we.
Some chapters have around 50-60, but I imagine that some newer chapters have very few indeed.

TomKamakazi
25-05-2005, 15:35
Marines Not able to do major assaults?
Picture this:

You're what passes for an officer in an army defected to chaos.

You're going about your day in your command bunker in what was the major Planetary Defense Force base. You’re reviewing maps and plans, deciding on what rations are to be sent where. All of a sudden hell is dropped on top of you. There's a light from the vision slits so bright you're blinded for a second, followed by a shockwave that knocks you off your feet even in your reinforced bunker, but the hundreds of troops outside who were training have just been vaporized by an orbital strike.

All is quiet for 90 seconds. All you can hear is the crackling of a few fires. Your senses have finally returned and you think to radio for help. You pick up the receiver and utter, "come in command" when there's a giant thrum of a turbo laser removing what was left of your com tower... then there's the screech of VTOL engines... lots of them.

You get up to the vision slit to see a thunder hawk gunship setting down. About two dozen men tear out of the barracks bunker dragging a pare of rocket launchers behind them. For a half second you can be proud of your men, keeping cool, responding to the threat. They're hardly out the door when the heavy bolters on the wings open up and spew large explosive shells through your men. In two seconds there's nothing left of them besides a red and black smear.

The gun ship has dropped its ramp before it's fully landed and giant armored men on bikes speed out with a roar almost as loud as the aircraft's engines. Four of them. They spread out and are removing what was left of the tarantula sentry guns. You look back at the gunship. More of the armored giants are coming out, on foot this time. They move fast. They're covering each other with an efficiency of movement you wish your best veterans had even a shred of, but there's no one to challenge them.

The gunship is leaving. The armored ones remain. Then in the distance you see a plume of dust. It the Leman Russ' back from their maneuvers early. They must have seen the bombing. You're saved.

There's a flash of light and an explosion from where you saw the tanks. One of the armored men is carrying what looks like a lascannon... by himself. Half your tanks can't mount that kind of fire power!

There's another flash of light outside and you get a tingling sensation down your spine... for a second you hear whispers of something and you think of the warp daemons the demagogue speaks of. Then there is a crash. The wall opposite you collapses and behind it is one of armored men, only even bigger. He knocks a section of wall away with a brush of his giant gauntlet like some one swatting at a fly. He's carrying an enormous gun in his other hand...

he levels it at you...

Typheron
25-05-2005, 15:48
there are many stories of imperial space marines being called in to help with a battle only to ignore the requests of the imperial commanders for asistance in the defence of there lines. The space marines then promptly launch a decapitating strike against the main HQ of the enemy normally leavaling the place in the process and killing anything within half a mile of it basiclly just as TomKamakazi described.

there precision sledge hammers used where the fighting is heavyest and you have to do maximum damage in the shortest space of time and then get out before the main bulk of enemy forces can react.

The times when they have been used on-mass to do basically thr job of the IG is during such events as the 2nd war for armageddon when they dropped directly into the attacking ork hordes with the plan that the best defence is a good offence.

Theres also a story from one of the final white dwarf battles from the 3rd war for armageddon where after the battle the marine forces departed at once via thunderhawk to another battle once the main objective had been secured.

They dont hang arround when the IG can deal with the tidy up.

The problem with this situation is that any equipment that they may have dropped or has been damaged would be left behind so somone must gather it up and return it to the chapter somehow. A lot of the special stuff would be collected by the chapters marines that were present at the time but there would be stuff like tanks and dreaddy chassis that may be stuck and require special equipment to remove without damaging it further. They must have an army of serventors to clean up there stuff of there gonna lose even more gear.

Yorkiebar
25-05-2005, 16:07
Regarding the first recorded human contact with a C'tan...
1: Name an Imperial Guard regiment that was involved.
2: Which C'tan was encountered?
3: Where did this contact take place?

malika
25-05-2005, 16:10
you should create a different topic for that

shutupSHUTUP!!!
25-05-2005, 16:43
I assume they have modified thunderhawks full of serfs to get drop pods and bolters etc that the marines might have dropped.

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-05-2005, 19:05
Actually, I doubt marines would drop any equipment, that would be disrespecting the work of the techmarine.

Bruen
25-05-2005, 19:29
Actually, I doubt marines would drop any equipment, that would be disrespecting the work of the techmarine.

And the fluff for the Thunderhawk Transporter talks about them going in after the battle and recovering used drop pos and immobilised vehicles.

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-05-2005, 19:45
That's drop pods and vehicles, I'm talking about bolters, grenades and magazines.

Flame Boy
25-05-2005, 19:49
I would imagine there are perhaps slightly more plasma weapons and Terminator suits that most people have been mentioned, I would imagine those estimates to be wargear in active service... I could imagine there might be about 5-10 suits of Terminator armour being repaired and refitted at all times, replacing suits damaged in combat. Hence I'd imagine there might be more suits stockpiled than the 50-60 suit estimate might suggest, but in effect they won't be seen on the battlefield at the same time, as fixed suits would probably replace the suit that has had it's torso vaporised by a lascanon...

I do think they over-emhisise the rarity of equipment in the Imperium in the background... it seems crazy that some technology has been floating around for over 10,000 years without the ability to replace it effectively. We know that Space Marine chapters trade with the Adeptus Mechanicus, so they do not have to rely entirely on their own forges for weaponry, which I guess is especially true of fleet-based chapters, which most likely cannot carry vast quantities of raw materials to make ammunition and new weapons.

Bruen
25-05-2005, 20:12
That's drop pods and vehicles, I'm talking about bolters, grenades and magazines.

I can't imagine a Marine allowing such instruments of the Emperors will to be left lying around on the battlefield.

I imagine that they try and collect them all up before they leave.

Flame Boy
25-05-2005, 20:32
Wow... I'm imagining beachcomber servitors with metal detectors now... Just imagine how tough it woulbe be to find something in all the clutter you see in the battlefields in some 40k artwork (like the 2nd edition box art)... you'd spend decades looking for Brother Lucien's empty spare bolt pistol clip amid the detritus of centuries of war...

Bruen
25-05-2005, 20:38
Wow... I'm imagining beachcomber servitors with metal detectors now... Just imagine how tough it woulbe be to find something in all the clutter you see in the battlefields in some 40k artwork (like the 2nd edition box art)... you'd spend decades looking for Brother Lucien's empty spare bolt pistol clip amid the detritus of centuries of war...

There are probably Adeptus Mechanicus teams whose whole purpose is recovering stuff.

t-tauri
25-05-2005, 20:49
With regards to the Rhino, it is more common than the game would have you believe. It is used by the Inquisition, Adeptus Astartes and Adeptus Soritas that we know of. There are Imperial Guard Regiments that use the Rhino rather than the Chimera - although it is strange that there is no allowance for this in the IG codex.
You can also add the Adeptus Arbites to that list. The rhino is basically used by any of the big Imperial Organisations.

athamas
25-05-2005, 20:54
there is a passage somewhere where it tells of 'mass production' of rhino's

every 13th is dissasembled and added back into the construction pile, whilst ever 666th is ritualy melted in offering to the machine god...


ie, they make alot of them!


alot of impirial tech is seen as arcaic {sp?}

ie they can still make it, but they have no idea how they make it... the machines still churn out the guns, but no one knows how they work, kinda like a modern factory, few ppl that work in them actually know how the machines assemble the things, and the technology/knowledge that makes them 'tick'

Flame Boy
25-05-2005, 20:54
There are probably Adeptus Mechanicus teams whose whole purpose is recovering stuff.


I've always wondered what the relationship between the Adeptus Mechanicus and Astartes was...

The A/M train the techmarines, and provide difficult to produce technology, but in return if they are playing scavenger hunt, they get to keep Brother Lucien's empty spare bolt pistol clip as payment. :D I suppose the price the Astartes pay fofr Adeptus Mechanicus support would be a clause that the A/M can request protection if Adeptus Mechanicus property is under attack? These sort of pacts sound like the sort of thing which is suggested in the fluff but never explained explicitly...

athamas
25-05-2005, 21:04
the ad-mech are the 'blacksmiths' of old, ie its their job to equip the SM's with all their stuff, IICR this is esp. true of new chapters, most of their equipment is made on mars, and goes with them, hence its rarety once they are in the field, as there is only one shop that stocks replacement parts!

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-05-2005, 22:36
I can't imagine a Marine allowing such instruments of the Emperors will to be left lying around on the battlefield.

I imagine that they try and collect them all up before they leave.

I meant they wouldn't drop them AT ALL! That would be disrespecting the work of the techmarine.

athamas
25-05-2005, 22:44
what would they actually drop?

other that a plasma gun exploding in their face, there would be no reason for a marine to discard his weapon

predatorsown
25-05-2005, 23:48
Rarity of plasma weapons seems to put people off using them at all this is an incorrect assumption based on the fact that plasma guns have ever been common. Basicaly plasma is an all round winner much better than even the bolter and far in excess of the las gun if they weren't rare I'd equip one to every man in the squad cause they're just great.

The fact you can only give them to typicaly one in ten is a reflection of the weapons rarity. Unlike other special weapons it isn't a matter of only one being trained more a matter of there only being enough for one in ten. They have always been "rare" by comparison to lasguns that is not to say that they are any rarer now than they were before someone pointed out they were rare. Thats just the way I see it though so no need to believe it.

Typheron
25-05-2005, 23:56
what would they actually drop?

other that a plasma gun exploding in their face, there would be no reason for a marine to discard his weapon

i would think that such things as clips would be expendable as a simple metal case to carry the ammo would be a easy thing to make.

however if a marine was hit by a demolisher shell or other such big ass gun then i think that there equipment and probably the better part of themselfs would be throwen all over the place. Assuming his eqipment survived which it might it would have to be recoved at some point at least for spares.

wounded marines whould probably lugg there gear off the battlefield with them but a dead marnie would leave his stuff and it would have to be re-claimed and re-built or reparied. Especially the armour which is considered sacracanct and passed from one generation to the next.