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New Cult King
08-03-2010, 01:01
I've always loved the idea of Skaven but was put off by the old minis for the rank and file Clanrats. The new models are amazing (albeit expensive) and with some nice online retailer discounts, I'm considering starting an army.

I have no experience playing Fantasy - it seems each army I try and start fizzles shortly after. However this time I'm keen to make a real go of it, so I have some questions :)

Are the newest Skaven rules considered overpowered like Daemons and VC? I don't want to drop a lot of time and effort into collecting and paintig a force if people are just going to groan and roll their eyes when I start setting up.

Do Skaven armies have to have tons of Clanrats to be effective? I know Skaven are a horde army, but are there ways of minimizing the sheer number of minis I would need to paint?

I love the new Deathmaster mini - is he viable on the tabletop?

How many units (and what sizes) of Stormvermin would you take in say a 2000pt list?

I think that's it for now :)

Dantès
08-03-2010, 02:35
Skaven aren't the kind of army someone would refuse to play, unless you're running 2 HPA and 2 Furnace's in 2k.

You don't HAVE to have a hordey Skaven list to be effective.

For example,


Plague Priest on Furnace with assorted items
Snikch
Warlock lvl 1, 2x dispel

30x Clanrats with shields, Full Command
30x Stormvermin, shields, Full Command, Storm Banner
21x Slaves, muso
21x Slaves, muso
30x Plague Monks, Full Command, Plague Banner
8 Plague Censer Bearers
Doomwheel
HPA

That's a 2000 point list, pretty effective. You can run a slightly less effective list but with less models with something that looks like this:

Grey Seer on Bell
Snikch
Warlock Engineer, lvl 2, Energy Condenser, Doomrocket
30x Stormvermin, Shields, Full Command, Storm Banner
-Doomflayer
30x Stormvermin, Shields, Full Command
-Doomflayer
21x Slaves, muso
21x Slaves, muso
6xPlague Censer Bearers
Doomwheel

with some room for items.

These are just lists I whipped up off the top of my head, so points values might be off, and I might be forgetting some stuff.

Clanrats are great, but not necessary. Stormvermin are okay, but a list anchored around them will be weak.

I've found a great place to get my Warhammer:

http://stores.ebay.com/MacPac-51_Skaven_W0QQ_fsubZ310677017QQ_sidZ407523937QQ_tr ksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

Check it out, the prices are great.

Sygerrik
08-03-2010, 04:44
Even the "cheesiest" Skaven build (which is, as above, dual Furnace/dual Hell Pit) isn't nearly as bad as a Shadestar, IoN spam, Daemon lists of any kind, etc. So I say, fear not!

Snikch is not great, to be honest. He costs an arm and a leg for a hero and while he has plenty of attacks, his low S and inability to cancel armor, wards or regen hurts his ability to really assassinate characters (like he should). Go for it if you want to use him, though, and you can always use his mini as a regular Assassin.

Using specialized Skaven troops and large things is a good way to eat up points so you don't have to paint as many models, but you'll always want at LEAST 42 slaves on the table (2 units of 21). Costs less than 100 points and can block, pin and divert enemy units, claim table quarters, absorb missile fire, screen frenzied units, provide SCR, etc.

Don't let anyone convince you not to use the Doomwheel, HPA, or the "towers" (Bell and Furnace). They're very powerful, very cool models (well, three models and one conversion opportunity!) with unique and fun rules. And Ld 5 S/T 3 troops need all the help they can get! Skaven armies are about hordes of worthless tiny guys and a few really killer big things that can ruin someone's day. Stormvermin...
Well, if you have a Bell, better Stormvermin to push it than Clanrats, and that 3+ save in combat can be nice, but as a combat unit, forget it. They can't stand up to cavalry, Saurus, or Chaos Warriors, and they'll even struggle against large blocks of Marauders if they don't roll well on the charge. Models are beautiful, and if you have a Bell to make them Unbreakable (and a caster for Death Frenzy or Gift of Filth), they can really do surprising amounts of damage. Key word is surprising, because I'm surprised if they kill anything!

Lastly, go magic heavy. For some armies it's a necessity to protect yourself. For Skaven it's a necessity because our combat Lord has hero-level stats and our caster Lord has the same leadership. That's if you take a Lord at all, which I usually don't do in less than 2500 points. We can get by fine with just heroes. Both Lores are very good and it pays to have access to both, which means Plague Priest and Warlock Engineer, or just one (or both) and a Grey Seer.

outbreak
08-03-2010, 06:35
my advice is even if you can make a non horde army with skaven, you should still aim for a decent amount of core blocks to bulk up your list. To begin i'd buy 2 battalions and a box of clannies and make up 3x30 clanrats, 30 plague monks, convert up 6 plagure censer bearers, 4 rat ogres and should get a unit of about 24 rats. Add in some slaves and that's a decent core and some special choices for you. Add in some characters/furnace/bell/hpa/doomwheel/wlc to fit your taste.

Zarroc
08-03-2010, 09:26
Even the "cheesiest" Skaven build (which is, as above, dual Furnace/dual Hell Pit) isn't nearly as bad as a Shadestar, IoN spam, Daemon lists of any kind, etc. So I say, fear not!

Snikch is not great, to be honest. He costs an arm and a leg for a hero and while he has plenty of attacks, his low S and inability to cancel armor, wards or regen hurts his ability to really assassinate characters (like he should). Go for it if you want to use him, though, and you can always use his mini as a regular Assassin.

Using specialized Skaven troops and large things is a good way to eat up points so you don't have to paint as many models, but you'll always want at LEAST 42 slaves on the table (2 units of 21). Costs less than 100 points and can block, pin and divert enemy units, claim table quarters, absorb missile fire, screen frenzied units, provide SCR, etc.

Don't let anyone convince you not to use the Doomwheel, HPA, or the "towers" (Bell and Furnace). They're very powerful, very cool models (well, three models and one conversion opportunity!) with unique and fun rules. And Ld 5 S/T 3 troops need all the help they can get! Skaven armies are about hordes of worthless tiny guys and a few really killer big things that can ruin someone's day. Stormvermin...
Well, if you have a Bell, better Stormvermin to push it than Clanrats, and that 3+ save in combat can be nice, but as a combat unit, forget it. They can't stand up to cavalry, Saurus, or Chaos Warriors, and they'll even struggle against large blocks of Marauders if they don't roll well on the charge. Models are beautiful, and if you have a Bell to make them Unbreakable (and a caster for Death Frenzy or Gift of Filth), they can really do surprising amounts of damage. Key word is surprising, because I'm surprised if they kill anything!

Lastly, go magic heavy. For some armies it's a necessity to protect yourself. For Skaven it's a necessity because our combat Lord has hero-level stats and our caster Lord has the same leadership. That's if you take a Lord at all, which I usually don't do in less than 2500 points. We can get by fine with just heroes. Both Lores are very good and it pays to have access to both, which means Plague Priest and Warlock Engineer, or just one (or both) and a Grey Seer.

Ive heard that about the duel furnance and Hellpit list before, i dont see how it could be that hard to take down lol, i do play dark elves atm though..

taffeh
08-03-2010, 09:46
Skaven are always fun to play with and against. As already suggested, its a balanced book - no Daemon / VC unrest here (although my personal opinion is VC arent OP).

Snitch model is soooo nice, however I dont believe he works for his points. I use the model as a normal Assassin, which for their points do so well as a march-blocker, bomb planter, and character / small unit killer.

Stormvermin are nice new models beign kinda Samurai-looking however they arent all that great compared to Clanrats

I've never seen a skaven army that doesnt outnumber the enemy.