PDA

View Full Version : Black Parpiat Question



Akuma
11-02-2006, 15:47
I've got question about bleck parpiat 15pts item from VC list that allows you to save one dice from one turn and use it in the other ...

Recently my friend has told me that this only works betwen my phases - so i can save this dice from my disspel and add it to my cast - i was under impression that i can steal his dice if he doesnt use it ... ( save magic dice from his disspell pool and add it to my cast if he havent used it ... )

whats the good anwser ( i think it has been in some white dwarf - the one with necromancy tactic article - anyone remembr what number it was ??? )

Wickerman71
11-02-2006, 16:09
It allows you to store one Power or Dispell Dice at the end of the Magic Phase which is added to your dice pool in the next Magic Phase (doesn't specify your Magic Phase).

So you can;

A) At the end of your Magic Phase store one of your Power Dice or steal one of your opponents Dispel Dice to add to your Dispel Dice Pool in your opponents Magic Phase.

B) At the end of your opponents Magic Phase Store one of your Dispel Dice or Steal one of your opponents Power Dice to add to your Power Dice Pool in your Magic phase.

C) Both of the Above; The Item works at the end of the Magic phase & has no temporal recharge time associated with it.

Festus
11-02-2006, 16:28
Hi

C)

Greetings
Festus

Arnizipal
11-02-2006, 17:08
You can actually steal power/dispell dice with the Black Periapt? :eek:
I never knew that!

Gorbad Ironclaw
11-02-2006, 17:14
Yes, you can steal dice fom your opponent too.

Akuma
11-02-2006, 22:44
Sorry to ask agin but could someone possibly tell me where i can find that article ??? It can be very important in convincing my opponent ...

Festus
12-02-2006, 08:47
Hi

There is no need for that. Just follow the description of the Item.
Or look up US WD #281, p.38, according to the direwolf.

Greetings
Festus

Griefbringer
12-02-2006, 09:03
Notice that WD articles and battle reports are notorious for containing erraneous rules interpretations, and as such do not automatically count as proof on rules arguments.

T10
12-02-2006, 10:31
"The Periapt allows the bearer to save one unused Power dice or Dispel dice at the end of any Magic phase and store it, to add it to his side's dice pool in the next Magic phase."

Sounds like an "Easter Egg" to me.

It does not specify which side's Magic dice the bearer may store, yet it specidies that it is added to his own side's dice pool. So it appears that it can ideed *steal* Magic dice from the enemy.

I have not read the relvant article, but I do not believe that this is the way it is intended to work. Apart from the item's cost not justifying it, there is no tie-breaker provided for the likely situation that two opposing Vampire Count armies use the same item.

-T10

Gorbad Ironclaw
12-02-2006, 11:52
I have not read the relvant article, but I do not believe that this is the way it is intended to work.


It is. Should be in a Q&A somewhere too. As for a tier breaker, GW never been very good at providing those(just look at the multiple different ways to do it for strike first), commonly it's either roll a d6, or let the one whos turn it is take a die first.

Festus
12-02-2006, 13:39
Hi

I have not read the relvant article, but I do not believe that this is the way it is intended to work.

Let me assure you that this is exactly the way this is supposed to work: Any one unused dice at the end of any Magic phase may be stored for the next magic phase...

Greetings
Festus

Wickerman71
12-02-2006, 15:04
I have not read the relvant article, but I do not believe that this is the way it is intended to work. Apart from the item's cost not justifying it, there is no tie-breaker provided for the likely situation that two opposing Vampire Count armies use the same item.

Mr. Thorpe does not agree with you


Q. Does the Black Periapt allow you to store one of your
opponent's unused magic dice?

A. The Black Periapt allows you to swipe a single unused magic
die (your opponent's or your own) at the end of one Magic Phase
and make use of it in the next one.

It is how the item works & before you go off on how great it is for 15pts try stealing more than one die in a game. Though that is neither here nor there how good or bad an item is has no bearing on rules. As for two opposing armies with this same ability I would say that D6 roll off is required each time to see who in fact would get the dice.

Ganymede
12-02-2006, 17:17
Hi


Let me assure you that this is exactly the way this is supposed to work: Any one unused dice at the end of any Magic phase may be stored for the next magic phase...

Greetings
Festus

There is no doubt in my mind that the way the peripat works currently is NOT the way it was intended to work originally.

Festus
12-02-2006, 17:27
Hi

There is no doubt in my mind that the way the peripat works currently is NOT the way it was intended to work originally.

Why?
...if I may ask...

(IMO it is a transfer from older editions, where you may store a card instead of a dice)

Greetings
Festus

Wickerman71
12-02-2006, 17:43
There is no doubt in my mind that the way the peripat works currently is NOT the way it was intended to work originally.

Generally when one starts to bring up the point of intent into a debate it usually is a sign that he is on the weaker side of said argument. GW had every opportunity to correct the text if they felt it was wrong. Hell, they could have done it in WD#281 pg. 38; but instead backed what was written in the VC Army Book. Yet you still argue intent which you can only back with your own speculation:eyebrows:

Azazel
12-02-2006, 19:02
Well. Untill I read this thread I thought the Parpiat would save one of your own dice. Now it seems that the Undead player can steal a dice from his opponent.

Not that my Khorne Mortals care.

mageith
12-02-2006, 19:24
Generally when one starts to bring up the point of intent into a debate it usually is a sign that he is on the weaker side of said argument.

It is the weaker side of the RULES argument, perhaps. When GW writes something sloppily, as they did in this case, they have a choice. Either go along with what the actual words say or write an errata. In this case, and probably in the majority of cases they go along with what the actual words say rather than admit that their intent wasn't properly conveyed.

In this case it is compounded by the fact that a non game Designer, Mike Walker, WAACily interpreted it and it got by the editor too.

15 points for an item that not only stores an extra dice in BOTH phases and additionally requires the opponent to use all of his or have one stolen is really a great deal. However its not such a great deal that it's a game breaker, so in this case they just confirmed what the words seem to say. or what Mike Walker interpreted them, to his own benefit, to say.



GW had every opportunity to correct the text if they felt it was wrong. Hell, they could have done it in WD#281 pg. 38; but instead backed what was written in the VC Army Book. Yet you still argue intent which you can only back with your own speculation:eyebrows:
Yes it is speculation. But its reasonable speculation.

As 281, page 31 states with understatement: "My 7 Power Dice are usually increased by to 8 by the very reasonably priced Black Periapt."

The very simple rule of the Periapt say nothing about stealing or swiping but saving: "The Periapt allows the bearer to save one unused Power dice or Dispel dice at the end of any Magic Phase and store it, to add it to his side's dice pool in the next Magic Phase."

And the fluff even contradicts the ruling: "The maleficent jewel has the power to trap the winds of Amethyst magic and accumulate them for his bearer, or his lord, to use." Per the fluff the periapt traps Amethyst magic or Death Magic only and so probably shouldn't even work on Necromantic magic let alone some other lore's magic.

But since this is a rules forum and we really only need to be concerned about rules and rulings, the periapt defies its own wording and fluff and works differently.

Happy Easter.

Mage Ith

Festus
12-02-2006, 20:54
Hi

15 points for an item that not only stores an extra dice in BOTH phases and additionally requires the opponent to use all of his or have one stolen is really a great deal. However its not such a great deal that it's a game breaker, so in this case they just confirmed what the words seem to say. or what Mike Walker interpreted them, to his own benefit, to say.

The Periapt is cheap, but maybe not too cheap:

A single Magic Die is 25 points usually, and the Periapt will not supply this on a regular basis. Against a magically challenging foe, it might not even yield a single die over the course of a complete game. There simply won't be many dice left after any given Magic Phase.

OTOH, against a magically weak unit it is a steal indeed, as it can provide a die in *each* phase, which usually costs 50 points. But this is rare.
Usually it only provides a former Dispell Die as a Power Die in your own phase, as you won't use up the Dispell Dice - but you will try to use all available power.

So it is cheap, but within a reasonable bracket.

If it were 25 points, I'd probably still take it, but not as a default item. Any more (30 points and up), I'd leave it at home as there are no combinations possible.

Greetings
Festus

Gabacho Mk.II
13-02-2006, 06:30
Hi


Why?
...if I may ask...



Festus, you answered your own question further down the thread...:eyebrows:


The item, for ONLY 15 pts, is just too cheap to not include in every single VC army.

Come on now, for 15 pts you are able to steal a power/dispel dice either from your opponent, or save a power/dispel dice from your own hand (which is, btw, the exact meaning of the workings of the item, given its rules as well as its intent, yes, intent).:rolleyes:

Heck, it is a "no-brainer."


However, I have yet to see a VC player argue against the low cost of this item. The day that I do, I will sacrifice a goat and hold a banquet in their honor.

Gabacho Mk.II
13-02-2006, 06:32
Hi
The Periapt is cheap, but maybe not too cheap:

So it is cheap, but within a reasonable bracket.



You know, I would care to see what you think would be "too cheap" from any other example.

For the sake of conversation.

Griefbringer
13-02-2006, 07:08
So, if the opponent has a black periapt, smart player should use all his dispel/power dice during a phase, so that there is nothing left at the end to store.

With power dice this should be easy, as most wizards are able to consume more power dice than they generate. You only have power dice left over if you have no wizards, or only a single level 1 wizard - and in these cases the VC player is likely to have a pile of dispel dice left over in the end, too.

With dispel dice, you can use any number of them against any spell - so when it looks like the VC player casts his last spell, dish out all remaining dispel dice and hope that he does not have any bound spells or power stones up his sleeve.

Gabacho Mk.II
13-02-2006, 07:20
Wait a minute, just remembered something.


Sometime ago, a VC player argued with me with his intention being that he could steal my dice stored in a Diadem.

Guess how long that conversation went?:rolleyes:



(If it wasnt for the timely appearance of another VC player, who argued on my behalf, that battle would have taken no less than 6 hours to game out...)

Jedi152
13-02-2006, 07:44
However, I have yet to see a VC player argue against the low cost of this item. The day that I do, I will sacrifice a goat and hold a banquet in their honor.
That would be like a marine player complaining that 3+ saves were too good...

My Carnage list has the periapt (not 'parpiat') in it, but i might drop it. I'm not overly bothered for rules discussions every time i nick a dice.

Festus
13-02-2006, 08:13
Hi

Heck, it is a "no-brainer."

Yes, I canonly heartily agree: It is a no-brainer. But there are a lot of no-brainers out there; every armylist has at least 3 or 4 of those, sometimes even more.

With VC, I'd at least add the Book of Arkhan and (if using a well-sized Wight unit) the Banner of the Barrows into that number. This doesn't even look at the Vampire Bloodline Powers...

Greetings
Festus

Cheesejoff
13-02-2006, 09:39
It's not incredibly powerful, as it you are stealing a die at the end of the phase then your opponent does not need to use it.

But it does sort of mean one free power/dispel die every turn, as long as your opponent doesn't use all his,

Wickerman71
13-02-2006, 13:22
With VC, I'd at least add the Book of Arkhan and (if using a well-sized Wight unit) the Banner of the Barrows into that number. This doesn't even look at the Vampire Bloodline Powers...

Add the Staff of Damnation; most VC players opt for the Arcane Items in this order Book, Staff & then either Power Familiar or Black Periapt. Most VC prefer to strengthen casting with bound spells rather than adding Power Dice. If there is a WightLord even money says he's armed with the Sword of Kings. I Echo your statement every army has choices within their Magic Items that are simply better than others. WE where they were trying hard to prevent it still gave Hail of Doom Arrow & Nettlings.

I see just as many if not more Power Familiars over the Periapt. Now I do feel that points wise the BP is a better deal than the PF. I also feel that the BP is under costed compared to the over costed PF but many players opt for the ashurd effect of the Familiar. Just because you can swipe a dice does not mean that your opponent is going to let you. The swiping of dice is very minor & does not come up as often as some of the people on this thread think it does, in order for it to be swiped it must not be used.

Avian
13-02-2006, 13:32
So, if the opponent has a black periapt, smart player should use all his dispel/power dice during a phase, so that there is nothing left at the end to store.
How about nicking Power dice from a Dwarf, Tomb King or Khorne player?

Or how about when you miscast and all your Power dice are lost? Why not nick one of the Dispel dice he was holding onto?

Heck, the Lizardmen item that lets you store two of your own dice costs 35 pts and you think this item at below half price not only lets you store half as many dice, but to nick one from the opponent if he has one left?
Really?


It's amazingly good value if it allows you to steal one of the opponent's dice. I'm very happy that nobody here plays it that way.

Ganymede
13-02-2006, 19:43
Generally when one starts to bring up the point of intent into a debate it usually is a sign that he is on the weaker side of said argument. GW had every opportunity to correct the text if they felt it was wrong. Hell, they could have done it in WD#281 pg. 38; but instead backed what was written in the VC Army Book. Yet you still argue intent which you can only back with your own speculation:eyebrows:

Holy Crap!

If you were a superhero, your special ability would be to create imaginary arguments that your enemy supposedly put forward.

You would be called Strawman Man!

Read carefully the single sentence of the single post I've made in this thread. I ain't arguing crap. But you can feel free to argue with other people who are actually presenting points of debate.

Wickerman71
13-02-2006, 23:37
If you were a superhero, your special ability would be to create imaginary arguments that your enemy supposedly put forward.

You would be called Strawman Man!

:D Chill out sidekick Spazboy;)

Ganymede
14-02-2006, 00:56
I trust you understand my point though. I uttered but a single sentence in my original post. I did not present an arguement or point of debate. I didn't say one way to play it was better than the other.

Griefbringer
14-02-2006, 06:54
How about nicking Power dice from a Dwarf, Tomb King or Khorne player?

So you will get an extra dispel dice in the following enemy magic phase- which will be of little use against dwarves or Khornates (neither of whom are likely to cast any spells) - never mind that the VC player would also probably more than enough of his own dispel dice remaining to store one of them.

I see the point with tomb kings, though.



Heck, the Lizardmen item that lets you store two of your own dice costs 35 pts and you think this item at below half price not only lets you store half as many dice, but to nick one from the opponent if he has one left?

And Empire has Rod of Power for 45 points. And goblins have a magic item at 25 points that explicitly allows you to steal one enemy magic dice per game.