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View Full Version : First attempt at Ogres 2000 points...



BigbyWolf
10-03-2010, 19:41
So, just invested in some Ogres from the magical world of Ebay and I've come up with a list to try them out:

Tyrant- Tenderizer, Wyrdstone Necklace, Gutmaw, Heavy Armour, Luck Gnoblar- 311
Seems like a decent build to me, plenty of offence and good defence as well
Butcher- Bang Stick, Tooth Gnoblar- 155
Butcher- Disp. Scroll- Tooht Gnoblar- 155
Butcher- Disp. Scroll- 155
I've come up against three of these boys before, and if not dealt with their buffs can be pretty nasty

3 Bulls- Add. H/W- 117
3 Bulls- Add. H/W- 117
Cheap, and with a lot of attacks per unit, I don't see the need to give them any further upgrades
4 Ironguts- Std, Gutlord- 237
The Tyrant will go here, giving me a nice hard hitting unit

20 Gnoblars- 40
20 Gnoblars- 40
8 Trappers- 48
Not much to say here, cheap and disposable blocks of Gnoblars and some trappers to irritate

8 Lead Belchers- 440
At the moment I haven't decided how to run them yet, but can pretty much go for any combination
Slave Giant- 175
Not as good as a standard Giant, but still, it's a Giant!

Total- 2000 on the nose!

One thing I will say is that this is all the models I've got at the moment, I'm converting the trappers from the 8 Gnoblars I'm not putting in the blocks, and will be borrowing 2 of the Butchers. I've just thrown it together to see how my current selection fares.

What I'm really looking for here is a bit of advice on how to use what I've got, and also pointers on where to invest next. Another box of bulls is the only definite purchase I've got down so far, so I can convert some Butchers, but that'll leave me 4 more bulls to throw around.

So, fellow Ogre-players of Warseer, any suggestions? Tips? Critiques? They'd all be most welcome!

shadowskale
11-03-2010, 00:20
I have to say its a very good starting list.
a few little things.

1) Big names use em, I find the longstrider one works great on the tyrant, because you can put him in a unit, then take him out the unit and charge using his M8 rather than M6, can be very useful.

2) 3 Butchers, I don't think 3 butchers is a good idea cept in 3k maybe, more than 2 is a point skink.

3) use a hunter, trust me on this, he is one of the best ogres out there, not only having a great range on the crossbow, he also works great with trappers (since they can give him covering fire if he is charged) and greyback pelt.

4) bellowers on the bulls, worth every point, you will find that bulls will run away -alot- in combat since they will always be outnumbered, so the bellowers can help you from running of the board, also there great for baiting the other player.

5) Runemaw is a perfect banner to give those ironguts, it allows you to redirect magic to another unit something that stops the iornguts ever being hit by spells, this makes the ironguts a great place to put your tyrant.

6) only run MSU units of Leadbelchers, that way if they go boom you still have another unit.

BigbyWolf
11-03-2010, 13:40
Leaving the characters aside for the time being, would I be better off in dropping 4 of the Leadbeltchers and investing in more dedicated combat troops?

Roarschach
11-03-2010, 14:25
Leaving the characters aside for the time being, would I be better off in dropping 4 of the Leadbeltchers and investing in more dedicated combat troops?

Invest in ironguts, and put the butchers in 3-4 man units of them. It's what I see a lot of people do, and looks pretty solid. And yea, too many belchers.

happy_doctor
11-03-2010, 14:57
Something to consider is the Paradigm-Shift Ogres. It's not my term, I haven't come up with that strategy, but it works. It goes like this:
Since ogre magic is not as powerful as the newest races' and you actually pay more for each sub-par wizard of yours, you're better off leaving the magic at home and going for a more aggressive approach.
That includes most forms of passive magic defense (scrolls, dispel dice, magic resistance), which can be substituted by active mage-hunting techniques.
The points you'll save from magic will give you more troops to maneuver with, as well as a couple of support characters in the form of hunters. It takes some getting used to, but it's a solid concept.

Sample list:
-Tyrant, Tenderiser, Wyrdstone Necklace, Longstrider, Pair of Handguns, HA, Luck Gnoblar
Like other have pointed out, one of the best tyrant builds out there. He can go toe to toe with most enemies and come out on top.

-Hunter, 2 Sabretusks, Greyback Pelt, Beastkiller
-Hunter, 2 Sabretusks, Great Skull, Mawseeker
With their sabretusks, the hunters become more than characters; they should be treated as regular ogre units, since they have a US of 8 and can break ranks. Sic'em Boys is a good rule, allowing you to kill enemy wizards early on. The greyback pelt hunter gives you even more tactical options, since he can march unhindered through woods and other difficult terrain

-3 Bulls, LA, Ironfists, musician
-3 Bulls, LA, Ironfists, musician
Ironfist and Light armour mean you can get a 4+ save in combat, not bad for an ogre!

-3 Ironguts, Musician
-3 Ironguts, Musician

-21 Gnoblars
-21 Gnoblars
-9 Gnoblar Trappers

-2 Leadbelchers, champion
-2 Leadbelchers, champion
Champion upgrade is very useful, as it forces all shooting/magic hits to be evenly allocated between the two models, keeping both alive for longer.

-Slavegiant
-Gorger

Total: 1997

I tried to leave most of your list unchanged, so the only additions are the hunters, a couple of ironguts (can be converted from leadbelchers or bulls), a gnoblar here and there and a gorger. If you factor in the hunters, you've got 12 units, meaning you'll outnumber your opponent most of the time (unit-wise).

Give it a try!

shadowskale
11-03-2010, 19:21
Leaving the characters aside for the time being, would I be better off in dropping 4 of the Leadbeltchers and investing in more dedicated combat troops?

Like Roarschach said, drop the leadblechers for ironguts, ironguts one of the best ogre units in the book, along with maneaters, but maneaters are rare, and should be taken in 1x3 or 1x4 if poss.

shadowskale
11-03-2010, 19:24
Snip

Nice list, but needs moar trappers!
I would swap out a Gorger for more trappers, Gorgers are good but mostly as War Machine hunters and sometimes they arrive to late for that.

smallgreenguy
11-03-2010, 23:56
I've had a lot of success with my ogres so I can pass on some advice. 8 leadbelchers is too many. The most I would ever run is 2 units of 2. Even then I only run them because I like them for baiting and fleeing, not because they ever actually contribute much of anything. Additionally, I never take more than one unit of 3 bulls with no upgrades, because again the point of them is to bait and flee not to break things. With all of those freed up points, the best thing to add are ms units of ironguts. Ironguts really are the bread and butter of ogres, without enough of them it will be a complete struggle to try and break anything. Gnoblar fighters are really preference but most people don't run them (I only use 2 units in a 2250 list, in 2k I never use them). 8 trappers is always helpful ;). Also you can drop the tooth gnoblars, ATM they are pointless for us because you actually have to use it before you cast your spell, you can't cast then sac it to add +1 unfortunately! I've also found 2 gorgers to nearly always be more useful than the giant.

There is also the paradigm shift school of thought like the previous poster said, but I "always" take 3 butchers, as I find ogre magic to be some of the best in the game. Trollguts, bonecruncher, braingobbler, all fantastic spells, so I like your character setup (minus tooth gnobs). Good setup on your tyrant too, same as mine! While fun, I also find hunters to be incredibly ineffective.

So my suggestion is to drop the LBs down to 4 (2 units of 2) drop a unit of bulls; and start collecting more ironguts.

shadowskale
12-03-2010, 00:38
I've also found 2 gorgers to nearly always be more useful than the giant.

I disagree, while giant's cost more points and can fall over, they are hard to kill and deadly if luck is on your side (I remember my giant removing a lizardman scar vet from the game, twas great) where as gorgers (while also being luck based) can arrive to late and to far away from battle (if your unlucky)
so purely because he is on the table from turn 1, and can take so many wounds I vote giant.


I never take more than one unit of 3 bulls with no upgrades
Erm, that's risky, you need at least a bellower on each unit so you don't fly off the table when running around.


because again the point of them is to bait and flee
so you do use a bellower right ? :eyebrows:

smallgreenguy
12-03-2010, 02:15
Yes I use a bellower on every ogre unit. Don't upgrade AHW.

The giant really is more of a fluff thing than anything. I've never seen a very competitive list run a giant over 2 gorgers (which are still less points than one giant). Odds are the gorgers will come on turn 2 or 3 and with 2 of them the odds increase even more. They are exceptional at taking out support units of archers, warmachines, lone mages, etc. They also are never far away from the battle... Ogres move 12 inches a turn, you are closing in on their side of the table, and it's incredibly advantageous to have units arrive on the opponents side.

3 ironguts would do more for you than a giant. Giants suffer from shooting horribly, something that ogres already have a hard time with, not to mention 3 ironguts with a champ will allow you to randomize shooting on your unit.

A giant accentuates our weakness rather than helps it.

meneroth
12-03-2010, 02:55
i can say from personal experience that 3 butchers in 2k is great. very, very good buffs and a fairly dangerous offensive spell makes them excellent. the way my buddy plays he uses ALOT more ogres (like 4-5 units of 3) and alot more ironguts. gorgers are good but i think leadbelchers are a waste of points. certianly they will do something crazy every once in a while and just destroy a unit, but its too unpredictable, i would use yeti's or more ironguts. finally, you need bellowers on your ogres, you will find they flee quite easily.

smallgreenguy
12-03-2010, 03:02
Hey bigby, I recommend checking out ogrestronghold.com. You will get a lot of good information there!

AlmightyNocturnus
12-03-2010, 03:37
Bigbywolf,
Sorry, it looks like you are getting a lot of conflicting info. I`ll just tell you my opinion; I`ve been playing OK since they came out (my main WFB army) and I have about 5000 fully painted points worth)
Your list is basically solid and I understand this might be all of the models you have so I won`t suggest any major changes...just some tweaks.
1. I`d probably skip Gutmaw on the Tyrant. The Tyrant`s purpose is to challenge enemy characters and pound them into paste with the Tenderizer on the turn you charge. If your victim is lucky or hard enough to survive that, nothing will really save the Tyrant except the possible ward save from Wyrdstone Necklace.
2. You can`t use Trappers without a Hunter and in my opinion the Hunter is the worst unit in the book. So, I`d use them as normal Gnoblars for now.
3. Champions (like the Gutlord) are overcosted for one extra attack...but Musicians are invaluable!!!! Put a Bellower in every unit you can.
4. I love Leadbelchers and always use 2 or 3 units of two models each with one upgraded to Bellower. These will act as you Fast Cavalry; running up, blasting a unit, fleeing the enemy`s charge and setting them up for a counter charge, rallying at +1 for the Bellower while reloading, repeat...
5. I like 2 Gorgers over a Slave Giant...but sometimes the Giant is great for drawing fire away from your Tyrant`s unit.

That`s it for my advice. I hope it`s helpful and I hope you enjoy using Ogres! Good luck.

Almighty Nocturnus

shadowskale
12-03-2010, 12:05
Bigbywolf,
Sorry, it looks like you are getting a lot of conflicting info.
its the downside to posting lists on warseer, everyone has different views on whats good and not. :)

Onidan
12-03-2010, 12:30
2. You can`t use Trappers without a Hunter and in my opinion the Hunter is the worst unit in the book. So, I`d use them as normal Gnoblars for now.

You can use one unit. Every additional unit requires a hunter each, though.

But Id say go 9 Trappers, that works better for me than 8 (you should have some mascot Gnoblars left from the actual ogre sprues). Get rid of the Tooth Gnoblars and youre set ^^

BigbyWolf
12-03-2010, 12:34
Thanks for all the advice so far guys, and I'll be heading over to the Stronghold as soon as it's up again (last time I tried it wasn't working).

I'm looking at taking part in a 1999pt Tournament in May, so now need to consider what I can paint, as well as what can be bought.

With that in mind I'm looking at the following list:

Bruiser- Wyrdstone Necklace, Heavy Armour, 30 points left for magic items...maybe the Seigebreaker or Sword of Might, also possible add handguns and shield.

Butcher- 2 Scrolls

4x3 Bulls with AHW and Bellower
2x3 Ironguts- Std
2x20 Gnoblars
8 Trappers

2x2 Leadbelchers
Giant

Don't have my book handy but IIRC this left me with enough to buy 3 Maneaters with extra kit, or play around a bit more with what I have. I could always drop 20 Gnoblars and upgrade one unit of Bulls to Iron Guts so I have 3 of each.

I don't see much point in going without a Butcher, 2 scrolls will help at this point level and against magic armies with low defence he might get a spell or two off if I spam 1 die castings. And he's still as good in combat as your average hero.

So, reworked and resubmitted...suggestions?

shadowskale
12-03-2010, 15:55
Love the new list, just a few pointas fer ya.



I don't see much point in going without a Butcher, 2 scrolls will help at this point level and against magic armies with low defence he might get a spell or two off if I spam 1 die castings. And he's still as good in combat as your average hero.

If your worried about Magic I urge you very much to put Runemaw on your ironguts, you can then put a char in the unit and they wont dare hit your ironguts (the runemaw lets you redirect there spells to another unit thats within 12 or 6 I can't remember, but you can use it to hit there units OR bounce it to a unit of gnoblars)



Don't have my book handy but IIRC this left me with enough to buy 3 Maneaters with extra kit
I advise you do this, 3maneaters are great, and very painful. best rare unit in the book.



I could always drop 20 Gnoblars and upgrade one unit of Bulls to Iron Guts so I have 3 of each.
Great idea, gnoblars are good but I don't think they will help you in a tournament, and ironguts are far better.



I don't see much point in going without a Butcher, 2 scrolls will help at this point level and against magic armies with low defence he might get a spell or two off if I spam 1 die castings. And he's still as good in combat as your average hero.
Hmmm, I much rather have the bangstick than two scrolls, people sometimes waste there dice trying to stop some of your spells, can be really useful to start with bang stick then cast the gut magic.



Bruiser- Wyrdstone Necklace, Heavy Armour, 30 points left for magic items...maybe the Seigebreaker or Sword of Might, also possible add handguns and shield.

No big name makes me sad :(

and finally, I really do advise picking up at least 1 hunter.
If you like I can give you my old 2k list to look at.

Lord Inquisitor
12-03-2010, 16:05
If you're wanting to go for heavy magic and not allergic to special characters, consider Skragg. He's the only way to get a slaughtermaster under 3K points, he's got good Ld and is pretty mean in close combat and he lets you have gorgers as specials and makes them more reliable, both by his special rules and the fact that you can take loads of 'em. He's a bit vulnerable to shooting and needs to be screened well, but definitely a solid choice.

shadowskale
12-03-2010, 16:11
If you're wanting to go for heavy magic and not allergic to special characters, consider Skragg. He's the only way to get a slaughtermaster under 3K points, he's got good Ld and is pretty mean in close combat and he lets you have gorgers as specials and makes them more reliable, both by his special rules and the fact that you can take loads of 'em. He's a bit vulnerable to shooting and needs to be screened well, but definitely a solid choice.

I just want to point out that this is the best and hardest hitting ogre army that you can make, however it costs a bomb to make it. (since you can and wil l want 8-10gorgers) that's 80 right of the bat, and Skrag is a direct only figure that costs about 35. :(

niap
12-03-2010, 16:56
Don't have my book handy but IIRC this left me with enough to buy 3 Maneaters with extra kit, or play around a bit more with what I have. I could always drop 20 Gnoblars and upgrade one unit of Bulls to Iron Guts so I have 3 of each.


Yes, get the maneaters then try to find some points and squeeze a BSB in (rerolling stubborn break tests is good or so i hear). Also, I would drop the giant and add a Gorger instead to hunt warmachines or just hold the enemy in place for a turn while you set up a flank charge.

BigbyWolf
12-03-2010, 17:22
If your worried about Magic I urge you very much to put Runemaw on your ironguts, you can then put a char in the unit and they wont dare hit your ironguts (the runemaw lets you redirect there spells to another unit thats within 12 or 6 I can't remember, but you can use it to hit there units OR bounce it to a unit of gnoblars)


I'm not too worried about magic, 2 scrolls should suffice, and I like having the option of putting my general in either unit of Ironguts, so I can't guarantee that he'd be in the one I put the Runemaw on (also- are you sure you can re-direct at opposing units, I thought it was just friendly ones?).



Hmmm, I much rather have the bangstick than two scrolls, people sometimes waste there dice trying to stop some of your spells, can be really useful to start with bang stick then cast the gut magic.


Hmm, the Butchers more there for a bit of defence, I'd consider the bangstick if I was running more than one butcher.



No big name makes me sad :(


Lack of things to kill ethereals makes me sad. ;) Big names can be fun, I'm sure, but there's not much room for one in this list.



and finally, I really do advise picking up at least 1 hunter.

Hunters are more of a luxury unit. I've played against one a few times in various lists, and he's really let down by low BS when it comes to shooting.

I intend to branch out in future and do a more "wild ogre" army With Scragg, a butcher and a couple of hunters, but I can really see one fitting in this standard list, I'm not really looking for a ranged list, more swamp with MSU.


Yes, get the maneaters then try to find some points and squeeze a BSB in (rerolling stubborn break tests is good or so i hear). Also, I would drop the giant and add a Gorger instead to hunt warmachines or just hold the enemy in place for a turn while you set up a flank charge.

The giants main job will be to draw fire, as running MSU any concentrated fire on my Ogre units could deplete their numbers too much...and giants are always fun to use, it gives me something a bit different in the list.

So...all in all, I'll do a bit of revising of the list when I get home, adn we'll see where we can go from there.

shadowskale
12-03-2010, 17:54
I'm not too worried about magic, 2 scrolls should suffice, and I like having the option of putting my general in either unit of Ironguts, so I can't guarantee that he'd be in the one I put the Runemaw on (also- are you sure you can re-direct at opposing units, I thought it was just friendly ones?).
I should have put a (?) here, I been a ogre player for awhile, but I however sold my book recently (thinking they got there update:() so I can't double check for you. even if it does't hit opposig units its still useful for protecting your Bruiser for nasty spells that some armies have to offer (like lizardmen)



Lack of things to kill ethereals makes me sad. ;) Big names can be fun, I'm sure, but there's not much room for one in this list.
Not knowing much about ethereals I can't really offer up much help here.


Hunters are more of a luxury unit. I've played against one a few times in various lists, and he's really let down by low BS when it comes to shooting.
Hmm, tbh you should think of the hunters crossbow as the luxury, he is good in CC and the trapper support on a change combined with the cats is very valuble, maybe even more worthwhile than a giant.
but its up to you tis your list ;)



I intend to branch out in future and do a more "wild ogre" army With Scragg,


Trust me there worth it :D


The giants main job will be to draw fire, as running MSU any concentrated fire on my Ogre units could deplete their numbers too much...and giants are always fun to use, it gives me something a bit different in the list.

This made me happy, most people will always advise not to take a giant, however a couple of people (me Included) find him not only useful in combat, but really cool on the tabletop, its really satisfying to see hoards of ogres, a huge giant in the middle of the unit and millions of tiny gnoblars, like something from lord of the rings. :D

niap
12-03-2010, 20:04
The giants main job will be to draw fire, as running MSU any concentrated fire on my Ogre units could deplete their numbers too much...and giants are always fun to use, it gives me something a bit different in the list.


Never tought of it this way (as a dmg sponge), have to try it out. Btw, do you use a standard giant model or did you modify it to fit the being a slave theme (if yes, take pictures pretty plx:))?

smallgreenguy
12-03-2010, 20:32
If you're worried about shooting you should really consider upgrading to a champion, at least on the ironguts, to randomize shooting on your unit. It's a rule that for some reason most people don't understand or know, but it helps immensely with minimizing casualties from shooting for only 20 points.

I like your list! Ogres are the most fun ;)

BigbyWolf
12-03-2010, 20:46
Never tought of it this way (as a dmg sponge), have to try it out. Btw, do you use a standard giant model or did you modify it to fit the being a slave theme (if yes, take pictures pretty plx:))?

Standard giant, I already had two before I got the bulk deal (BTW- Tyrant, Butcher, Giant, 48 Gnoblars, 8 Leadbeltchers, 6 Bulls and 4 Ironguts for 60...nice!), and neither of them were Slaves...the new one isn't either, but I'm sure I can big out enough bits to convert...