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bobafett012
15-03-2010, 06:18
Well I have never played Fantasy, I have played 40k for over 12 years but my buddy wants me to get into fantasy, so I of course made him the deal, if he gets into 40k i'll get into fantasy. So...I guess what I am looking for is some help picking an army that suits my playstyle somewhat. In 40k I tend to like smaller, more elitish type armies(maybe i just don't like too much painting?? lol), I play deathwing, and some space marine variants. I guess I also gravitate towards "the good guys".

After browsing through the GW web site the armies that interested me would have to be the empire, bretonian, and the vampire counts.

Anyways, so i guess any info/advice anyone can give me would be great. thx

Dantès
15-03-2010, 06:25
Vampire counts =/= good guys. So I guess that leaves empire and bretonnia. Do you want a fast, hard hitting, heavy armored force? Or a light armored force that can shoot? That's pretty much what it comes down to.

I'd say the closest to deathwing/space marines in fantasy would probably be dwarfs...

bobafett012
15-03-2010, 06:41
Vampire counts =/= good guys. So I guess that leaves empire and bretonnia. Do you want a fast, hard hitting, heavy armored force? Or a light armored force that can shoot? That's pretty much what it comes down to.

I'd say the closest to deathwing/space marines in fantasy would probably be dwarfs...

I mean i am open to anything, good/bad, close ranged/long ranged etc etc thats just stuff i tend to gravitate to.

well I like heavy armor(lol deathwing), I like ranged and CC although since i typically play a ranged style in 40k i guess a more cc focused army could be sweet, or a mixture. I am honestly NOT that into magic usage, I prefer more combat oriented army/heroes. whats the story and different playstyle possibilities of the bretonian and empire armies? and just give me some general info/suggestions, and trends/trend armies in fantasy right now?

gorbiesidhe
15-03-2010, 10:26
Bretonnians:

- Groups of heavily armored knights crashing into their enemies.
- Tend to use magic as defensive - Damsels give magic resistance to units.
- has fantastic opportunites for painting
- Virtues give you interesting ways to customize your heros
- has some good shooting with archers/trebuchet.
- Lance formation makes cavalry units deadly on the charge (only army with this rule)


Empire:
- The Swiss Army Knife of Warhammer - you can literally build any type of list with them.
- Detachment system supports your big blocks (only army with this rule)
- Huge blocks of troops, lines of shooting with crossbows/guns/cannons, cavalry.
- Steam Tanks!
- Lots of good background
- Can go magic light/heavy/defensive.

Bladelord
15-03-2010, 11:25
You like small elite armies, you want to be the good guys, you like heavy armour, and a mix between cc & ranged, you don't want to use magic, Hm someone in this thread just tld ya what race to go for... Dwarfs!

1) They're small (both length and army as whole)
2) Theyr'e damn elite
3) They're good guys (greedy but good)
4) Ever seen dwarfs without heavy armour?
5) Mix between ranged and cc? that's the way to go! you could also go heavy cc but it's not tourny cmpetitive (still fun to use)
6) You DON'T want to use magic... ever seen a dwarf use magic?:P

Lord Solar Plexus
15-03-2010, 12:57
You can easily play a heavily armoured Empire army - units of Imperial knights led by Warrior Priests for a modicum of magic defense, a Templar Grand Master leading a unit of Inner Circle Knights, supported by a brace of Great Cannon or any other fire support elements you like. Add a Steam Tank and you have at least two units that are immune to psychology and hit quite hard. You might need or want some lightly armoured fast cavalry to aid with the redirecting but that's all up to you and their utility isn't limited to Empire anyways. Having said that, Pistoliers are amongst the best fast cavalry out there.

Grey Mage
15-03-2010, 14:39
And of course, theres always special-heavy high elves.

While not alot of them are heavily armored per se, remember that ward saves are not like WH40k Invulnerable saves, you get them on top of your first one. So Phoenix Gaurd for example are actually pretty tough, not to mention the Beautiful HE Cavalry, and White Lions.

bobafett012
15-03-2010, 15:52
You like small elite armies, you want to be the good guys, you like heavy armour, and a mix between cc & ranged, you don't want to use magic, Hm someone in this thread just tld ya what race to go for... Dwarfs!

1) They're small (both length and army as whole)
2) Theyr'e damn elite
3) They're good guys (greedy but good)
4) Ever seen dwarfs without heavy armour?
5) Mix between ranged and cc? that's the way to go! you could also go heavy cc but it's not tourny cmpetitive (still fun to use)
6) You DON'T want to use magic... ever seen a dwarf use magic?:P

ROFL i didn't mean small in stature, but that made me laugh. I don't mind dwarfs but the models personally didn't blow me away like the bretonia/empire/VC ones did. they are a close 3rd right now behind brets and empire.


And of course, theres always special-heavy high elves.

While not alot of them are heavily armored per se, remember that ward saves are not like WH40k Invulnerable saves, you get them on top of your first one. So Phoenix Gaurd for example are actually pretty tough, not to mention the Beautiful HE Cavalry, and White Lions.


after 5+ years of world of warcraft its hard for me to stomach anymore elves... :( but the models are defintly nice.



Bretonnians:

- Groups of heavily armored knights crashing into their enemies.
- Tend to use magic as defensive - Damsels give magic resistance to units.
- has fantastic opportunites for painting
- Virtues give you interesting ways to customize your heros
- has some good shooting with archers/trebuchet.
- Lance formation makes cavalry units deadly on the charge (only army with this rule)


Empire:
- The Swiss Army Knife of Warhammer - you can literally build any type of list with them.
- Detachment system supports your big blocks (only army with this rule)
- Huge blocks of troops, lines of shooting with crossbows/guns/cannons, cavalry.
- Steam Tanks!
- Lots of good background
- Can go magic light/heavy/defensive.

I like the sound of both of these armies, they sound similar, what really differentiates them? How long have the codex's been out for both armies now and are either looking like a new dex is coming out any time soon? How do both fare on a competative level at the moment? One last question, whats the deal with the green knight, I really like that model.



You can easily play a heavily armoured Empire army - units of Imperial knights led by Warrior Priests for a modicum of magic defense, a Templar Grand Master leading a unit of Inner Circle Knights, supported by a brace of Great Cannon or any other fire support elements you like. Add a Steam Tank and you have at least two units that are immune to psychology and hit quite hard. You might need or want some lightly armoured fast cavalry to aid with the redirecting but that's all up to you and their utility isn't limited to Empire anyways. Having said that, Pistoliers are amongst the best fast cavalry out there.

Yeah I think the thing i am liking in the brets and empire is the calvary. I like the knightly themes and all the horses. seems like you could have a smallish army filled with higher skilled knights.

Dantès
15-03-2010, 16:21
ROFL i didn't mean small in stature, but that made me laugh. I don't mind dwarfs but the models personally didn't blow me away like the bretonia/empire/VC ones did. they are a close 3rd right now behind brets and empire.

Some of them are just meh, but I like the specials. However, when all units are painted in the same scheme, they look AMAZING.

And 3LV3S, I've a combat dwarf list with my Skaven...I thought it would be easy, but then I had PLAGUE MONKS with PCB bouncing off units of warriors, my guys just couldn't crack them! I'd rather play a gunline any day...at least I can kill something there!





after 5+ years of world of warcraft its hard for me to stomach anymore elves... :( but the models are defintly nice.

I played from release, for about 2 years. I started as a Night Elf...but everyone's a damn elf! So I made a Tauren Druid, and things were great for a while. I quit a few months before bc, but decided to come back to see what was going on...ELVES EVERYWHERE.





I like the sound of both of these armies, they sound similar, what really differentiates them? How long have the codex's been out for both armies now and are either looking like a new dex is coming out any time soon? How do both fare on a competative level at the moment? One last question, whats the deal with the green knight, I really like that model.

Well, theyre human. The similarities end there though. The Bretonnians are gallant medieval style knights, supported by their peasants, who are really nothing more than slaves in a sense. The peasants are very cheap, and very plentiful, and they back up the Bretonnian knights. Bretonnians knights wear heavy armor, and have a barded steed, but the barding on the steed (whereas normally it should subtract an inch from movement, because of the weight) does not have any penalties, because the horses are pure bred. They are lead by Paladins, and Damsels. Paladins, you can equate to a Lancelot sort of person, while Damsels are more defensive oriented magic users (they provide magic resistance, dispel dice, and lore of the beasts, which is a fairly defensive lore, but can also buff characters).

On the other hand, the Empire is led by fanatical warrior priests, combat heroes (don't remember the name...), engineers, and/or mages. Their mages can be tooled to be quite offensive, and quite good. Bit more expensive than the Bret ones, iirc. Their knights have better armor, as full plate armor is 1 better than heavy armor, but their horses still have a penalty from barding, so they move slower. Not quite as good as the bret knights, for the simple fact that they don't have lance formation and move slower. Whereas a unit of 9 bret knights will get 7 guys attacking (8 lance attacks on the charge), a unit of empire knights can only do that if they're 7 wide. Empire is more of a steampunk version of 17th century Germany, with a few twists. The core of their army CAN be knights, like Bretonnia, but their knights arent as good. The core is usually made up of state troops with a couple units of knights in there as well. They have a lot of blackpowder weapons, like handguns, pistols, cannons, mortars, etc. as opposed to the Brets, that have none.

I had the same options as you...when I first started, I couldn't decide what I wanted, until I found a Bret army deal on eBay, and said let me try them out. I loved them, lots of fun. I played a peasant heavy list, and it was great. I ended up selling them for the Skaven I have now, and it's just not the same! Though, when I get around to selling my Skaven, I'll be getting dwarfs, as they are just the toughest bastards this side of the World's Edge Mountains

Dragonreaver
15-03-2010, 16:26
I like the sound of both of these armies, they sound similar, what really differentiates them? How long have the codex's been out for both armies now and are either looking like a new dex is coming out any time soon? How do both fare on a competative level at the moment? One last question, whats the deal with the green knight, I really like that model.

They're not really all that similar really. Brettonians are all about the offensive, and are based on Medieval France/England. Literally their only non-cavalry units are archers and Men at Arms (regular peasants, with a bit of tin foil wrapped around them and a stick to hit things with).

So yeah, they're more of your Ravenwing/White Scars type army who hit hard on the attack, but don't have a lot in the way of defence (though their archers are nice). Magic for Brets is more about stopping the other army from using their magic than it is about doing actual damage.

As for Empire, like previously mentioned they can basically be any army you want them to be, but they more you specialise the less effective you are compared to armies that do specialise in that field (an all-cavalry Empire force won't generally be as good as a Brettonian force, for example, or if you go too magic-heavy you might come unstuck against Tomb Kings). They're your average human all-rounders. They're best used as a balanced force, with a bit of everything in there somewhere.

bobafett012
15-03-2010, 20:45
Hmm, well damn it, i am stuck, i like them both i love the powerful calvery of the brets, but i dislike the idea of having to run a bunch of peasants. As for the empire I like their core units better but of course the calvary isn't as good.

ok so i will ponder those 2 points, so tell me how the heroes compare in the brets and empire as far as your beefed up CC heroes go and even how their beefed up mages compare?

also how old are both the dex's and are either expecting a new dex anytime soon? and on a competative level how do each fare?

Lord Solar Plexus
15-03-2010, 20:59
Bretonnia has certainly better fighters but the Empire makes up for that in the magic department, as Bretonnian magic I understand is rather limited.

Jack of Blades
15-03-2010, 21:01
calvery

Calvery is a different form so unfortunately I can't pull this properly but I will anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalry

Malorian
15-03-2010, 21:04
Hmm, well damn it, i am stuck, i like them both i love the powerful calvery of the brets, but i dislike the idea of having to run a bunch of peasants.

Good news! You don't! :D

Just run a knight heavy army like I do :)

Led by the green knight it could be a really fun army.

Grey Mage
15-03-2010, 22:31
Yeah, a Brettonian army doesnt actually have to have a single peasant in it- though I wouldnt suggest going into battle without some bowmen at the least.

JayC707
16-03-2010, 04:43
Vampires are amazing...Blood Knights?!??!

Empire would be quite good, as well. I like how they can do everything.

Bretonnia is a very cavalry based army, if you like that sort of thing. They have very weak magic.

Zaustus
16-03-2010, 04:44
Regarding the army books (you'll find some folks get bent out of shape when you call it a 'codex,' by the way, not that I care), the Empire book is much newer than the Bretonnia book. Empire was last updated in 2006, while Brets haven't had an update since 2003. I haven't heard anything about either of them being updated soon, but I know nothing more than what I read in the rumor forum.

Beefed up heroes and lords are solid for both armies, though I'd say Empire has a better selection of magic items. As far as magic, Empire is definitely stronger, with access to more lores and stronger magic items. Since Brets haven't been updated for 7th edition, some of their magic items don't even function any more under the current rules.

In competitive play, it depends. Generally Empire does better, from what I've seen, since magic is so important now, and its shooting is very strong. Brets can certainly do well though, and were perhaps the strongest army in 6th edition. Their charge is deadly and very long-ranged, but they've suffered significantly from the appearance of Daemons as a separate book, and the 7th edition Vampire Counts book. Both of those armies are entirely unbreakable, which gets the Brets locked into combat. After the round they charge, the Brets really aren't very strong.

I'm not trying to scare you away from Brets though! They're a cool, colorful army and their lance formation is very strong. In terms of in-game power though, I think Empire is stronger. Brets are certainly capable of winning games, though.

If you really want a cavalry force, I'd actually go Brets. Their all-cav list plays quite well, and more intuitively than the all-cav Empire lists. If you want more of a mix, stronger magic, or shooting, go Empire.

Dantès
16-03-2010, 04:59
Empire is slightly more competitive, but that results in you playing a gunline army, and that's not fun for anyone!

I've actually had pretty decent success with my friends Brets (my ex-Brets, since I sold them to him) against Daemons and VC. Most people don't run a lord on Hippogryph, but I love mine. Very, very good at killing the Vampire lord or Daemon Lord! If you get the charge off that is...

The greatest thing about the Lance formation, is it lets you easily charge 2 units into a 5 wide infantry unit. That's 16 lance attacks in their face. Add to that banner, definite outnumber, and three ranks, and you've got great combat res. Throw some Yeoman into the flank of that unit, and good riddance. Of course if it's Daemons or VC they won't run...but there definitely won't be too many left.

The hardest army for Brets to face I think would be VC, more specifically a zombie/skeleton horde, with new zombie units sprouting up everywhere. It's fine if the opponent is only playing with a few blocks, but if he's got more than 5 you're in trouble.

But then again every army short of a skaven slave horde is screwed vs them.

bobafett012
16-03-2010, 10:51
Regarding the army books (you'll find some folks get bent out of shape when you call it a 'codex,' by the way, not that I care), the Empire book is much newer than the Bretonnia book. Empire was last updated in 2006, while Brets haven't had an update since 2003. I haven't heard anything about either of them being updated soon, but I know nothing more than what I read in the rumor forum.

Beefed up heroes and lords are solid for both armies, though I'd say Empire has a better selection of magic items. As far as magic, Empire is definitely stronger, with access to more lores and stronger magic items. Since Brets haven't been updated for 7th edition, some of their magic items don't even function any more under the current rules.

In competitive play, it depends. Generally Empire does better, from what I've seen, since magic is so important now, and its shooting is very strong. Brets can certainly do well though, and were perhaps the strongest army in 6th edition. Their charge is deadly and very long-ranged, but they've suffered significantly from the appearance of Daemons as a separate book, and the 7th edition Vampire Counts book. Both of those armies are entirely unbreakable, which gets the Brets locked into combat. After the round they charge, the Brets really aren't very strong.

I'm not trying to scare you away from Brets though! They're a cool, colorful army and their lance formation is very strong. In terms of in-game power though, I think Empire is stronger. Brets are certainly capable of winning games, though.

If you really want a cavalry force, I'd actually go Brets. Their all-cav list plays quite well, and more intuitively than the all-cav Empire lists. If you want more of a mix, stronger magic, or shooting, go Empire.

Yeah i like brets and the models better than the empire for sure.
I was reading that 2010 fantasy rumor thread and this was in there
"From Phoenixlaw;
This is what I have heard.

Brettonians are in the works, and what I've heard is that they will be 'sooner than expected"

so that helps make my mind up, specially if they haven't had an upgrade since 2003 it has to be coming somewhat soon you'd think. Not that i have to have an updated codex but as a DA 40k player, we got shafted something fierce and have by far one of the worst codex's around even when compared to codex's that were out before it...but thats neither here nor there. so anyways new toys and rules and such are always fun :)


Empire is slightly more competitive, but that results in you playing a gunline army, and that's not fun for anyone!

I've actually had pretty decent success with my friends Brets (my ex-Brets, since I sold them to him) against Daemons and VC. Most people don't run a lord on Hippogryph, but I love mine. Very, very good at killing the Vampire lord or Daemon Lord! If you get the charge off that is...

The greatest thing about the Lance formation, is it lets you easily charge 2 units into a 5 wide infantry unit. That's 16 lance attacks in their face. Add to that banner, definite outnumber, and three ranks, and you've got great combat res. Throw some Yeoman into the flank of that unit, and good riddance. Of course if it's Daemons or VC they won't run...but there definitely won't be too many left.

The hardest army for Brets to face I think would be VC, more specifically a zombie/skeleton horde, with new zombie units sprouting up everywhere. It's fine if the opponent is only playing with a few blocks, but if he's got more than 5 you're in trouble.

But then again every army short of a skaven slave horde is screwed vs them.

So it sounds like i am going to put together a bretonian army with calvary o'plenty. I am sure once they get an updated book VC and daemons won't be as bad.


Anyways thx for all the advice, i am looking forward to putting this army together and getting into some fantasy battles.