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AMWOOD co
15-03-2010, 18:23
Written but not posted: Saturday March 13, 2010.

I played in another tourney this past Saturday, this time at 2000 pts. Once again: open, no comp score; just the way I like it. The army I intended to bring and the army I brought were two very different things and the reason can be summed up simply. I wanted a specific High Elf army, but couldnít find my dragon princes, which were pivotal to the armyís design. So instead, I brought this Warriors of Chaos list.

Archaon
685

Exalted of Tzeentch
Rides a disc, shield, Sword of Might, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Soporific Musk
210

Sorcerer of Tzeentch
Lvl 2, dispel scroll
165

12 Warriors of Slaanesh
Full command, halberds, shields
244

5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh
Full command, flails, light armour
120

10 Marauders of Khorne
Flails
80

5 Knights of Khorne
Standard, lances (Yes! Lances! I was oh so mad when GW took my lances away in 6th edition and now I have them back.)
275

4 Chaos Spawn
220 (55 each)

Total: 1999

Tactics pre tourney: Archaon as a solitary Death Star. Can he do it? This was my first time using him in the Warriors of Chaos book. I had used him many a time with Hordes of Chaos (not sure how many of my games after I had the model, honestly, but heís always amusing on the field as he tries to kill everything and everything tries to kill him) so I pretty much knew what he could do, and as far as Iím concerned he has only gotten better. The spawnís job is to kill targets of opportunity and to bog down units that would otherwise control the field. The warriors and Marauders were to double team the main front with any spawn nearby with limited chance of survival while the knights and Archaon do the killing of major units head on. The disc rider is to seek out warmachines, single characters and units of fast cavalry. With the Soporific Musk, fast cavalry that flee from him as a charge reaction will have a little difficulty doing so. Horsemen are for flanking.

Game 1, Vampires: On turn 1 we advanced, spells were cast and dispelled. On the top of turn 2, Archaon was charged by a unit of Blood Knights, who were given strike first and reroll to hit by a spell. Archaon was wounded 4 times and he saved 4 wounds with his ward. He then slaughtered the entire unit. This would be the progress of the game: Archaon gets in combat, Archaon kills (he and the knights destroyed a unit of 25 Zombies in 1 round). Forfiet after the 4th turn. My army had suffered 1 wound, a spawn that had be charged by a Vargalf (or whatever theyíre called). Truly lucky on my part, honestly.

Game 2, Dark Elves: High point of the game: Archaon charged a unit of Witches, their champion accepted his challenge and died. He wins the combat, but they hold. Archaon was then charged by a PAIR of hydras, one on each flank. He cannot challenge anything. He not only survives, he takes only 1 wound and wins the combat by slaughtering more elves. Again, they all hold, the general being nearby. Next, my disc rider charges in against a Hydra, taking 1 wound himself and dealing none, but Archaon slaughter more witches, is not hurt in return, and all three Dark Elf units break. The hydras are run down and the witch elves are too few to rally.
The only surviving Dark Elf unit a turn later is a unit of Black Guard with an assassin, their special character champion, and a Lord (not the infamous ďI canít be hurtĒ Lord). I still have 4 knights, 2 Horsemen, 3 spawn, Archaon and the Disc Rider. Archaon and the Disc rider charge in for the hell of it (Letís put on a show!). The disc rider challenges, the assassin accepts. The assassin makes 4 hits and scores 4 wounds, including a killing blow. All 4 saves are made. The Exalted returns the favour and the assassin has no save to spare him. Archaon is attacked by this unit of Always Strikes First, halberd bearing elves, weathers it, slaughters 7 in return, and wounds himself for his second wound. Game ends.

Game 3, Vampires again: I already had first, this was just for bragging rights against fighting Archaon. The only points of note are that my knights were Beaten by a Vampire hero and Archaon suffered 2 wounds on turn 1 from a Banshee after I fried almost half the unit with flickering fire. The game was quite by both of us before turn 3 was over, it just wasnít that amusing and we were getting tired.

Lessons learned:

1. Archaon lives up to his titles. Lord of the End Times, Everchosen, what have you. He is a unit strength 2 Deathstar. Now, before everyone says heís overpowered, I have a few points to make. One, avoid tarpit units. Large units of unbreakables and large units of Zombies will keep him occupied for too long. I had him maneuvered to destroy one zombie unit with a combined charge, so itís not hopeless, but try to avoid the impossible scenario. Two, cannons are not his friend. I may not have faced any today, but I have had him killed at the starting gate by a cannon ball before.

2. Affirms my thought on the needlessness of the Banner of Rage for my knights. My knights only lose combat by large margins. Mark of Khorne is fine. Cannot think of a good banner for them now.

3. Still love my spawn. They killed a Vampire in game 1 and broke a unit of executioners in game 2. Generally ran amok. I want Scyla.

4. First time using a disc rider. Iím impressed. Iíll be using him again. In the two full games he managed to kill a character in each (though he should have died doing so in the second, but a run down Hydra isnít bad either).

General commentary after all was said and done is more or less what I hold. It is amusing and refreshing to see special characters like Archaon in these tournaments every so often, but try and avoid doing so all the time. I mix my play style up, but tend to maintain something usually different from the norm (except my High Elves, I still need to work with them). The thought of banning special characters was brought up by the store manager, but we, the gamers, said that doing so was a bad idea. We know that there are those who can and will abuse such freedom, but we feel that these characters simply add freedom to the army selection process and to ban some while allowing others is simply favouritism for a certain mode of play rather than a matter of keeping things either fair or amusing. It is worth noting that I will be trying to find my Dragon Princes to field my High Elf army again and Archaon probably wonít see use for a few more months. I want my Daemon Prince to spread his wings next.

Written when posted:
Okay, so that sums all that up. Comments? Criticisms? Yelling that Archaon should NEVER be used at the competitive level?

Defender of Ulthuan
15-03-2010, 18:50
Disc Exalted = Love.

I like Bloodcurdling Roar better than Musk, though.

Depravity
16-03-2010, 12:03
haha awesome! I love Archaon myself, haven't used him since sixth eidtion though. He might be slightly overpowered in a small game of 2000 points when the opponent most likely does not have anything to counter him with, except maybe huge units like you point out.

Special characters are really fun and I enjoy using them myself, so does my friends. Banning them from games would be sad.

(I must point out that I haven't played since sixth edition, but getting into the game again now.)

Mullitron
16-03-2010, 12:33
Fun read thanks for posting, like your list a bit different from most warriors of chaos lists i see. Arachon is a beast, its more his abilty to survive soo much due to that 3+ ward and 2+ normal save (oh and with anyone with a ws of 9 or less needing 5's or 6's to hit him). But agree hes not broken, uber powerful but cant be everwhere at once. Was a bit silly in my opinion for your oppoent to of charged him with blood knights tho maybe they didnt realise his sword negates saves.

Bladelord
16-03-2010, 13:32
Special characters suonds awesome to use but then we come to the daemonic special characters... I'm glad they're banned because of Kairos etc.

AMWOOD co
16-03-2010, 20:26
Kairos?! You think Kairos is a problem?! He's the same toughness, has the same ward, the same to wound issue, and only has one more wound than Archaon! But while Archaon is hit on a 5 or 6 by most models, Kairos is hit on a 3 and lacks the 1+ armour save. Fight the bird in hand to hand, all those magic missles become useless.

As for everyone else's comments, it was really an issue that no one at the tourney thought of anyone bringing something like Archaon. Two hydras for Dark Elves? Check. A pair of undead armies tooled for raising hordes of followers? Check. The unrivalled, take all comers, combat master of the dark gods? No.

And yes, the guy who charged Archoaon knew that Archaon's sword ignored armour, he just hoped to take Archaon out in round one. That hoped was dashed quickly. I sometimes feel bad when Archaon makes all these saves, but then I remember all the times my knights fail similar saves and I feel vindicated. The second game really seemed to be the challenge of 'Can Archaon be killed here, today?' The answer was a resounding 'No'.

Still, fun all around. I'm looking forward to next time.

tmarichards
16-03-2010, 20:41
The problem with Kairos is that it can be quite hard to catch a giant chicken that can blast most things coming towards him and fly 20".

How did the level 2 work out for you? The usual approach to competative gaming with magic is (around my area at least) go hard or go home, did the 35 pts to make him level 2 pay off? Or would you have preferred to have another 35 pts to spend elsewhere, and would a second scroll have helped?

Mullitron
16-03-2010, 21:22
And yes, the guy who charged Archoaon knew that Archaon's sword ignored armour, he just hoped to take Archaon out in round one. That hoped was dashed quickly. I sometimes feel bad when Archaon makes all these saves, but then I remember all the times my knights fail similar saves and I feel vindicated. The second game really seemed to be the challenge of 'Can Archaon be killed here, today?' The answer was a resounding 'No'.

Still, fun all around. I'm looking forward to next time.

I guess 16 attacks with rerolls and wounding on 3's gave your opponent the best chance from thier whole army but archaon does really well against elite small units. You were also lucky i guess not taking a single wound from the charge. I do love archaon tho, he in my opinion is just what the ever chosen should be like.

AMWOOD co
20-03-2010, 00:10
The problem with Kairos is that it can be quite hard to catch a giant chicken that can blast most things coming towards him and fly 20".

How did the level 2 work out for you? The usual approach to competative gaming with magic is (around my area at least) go hard or go home, did the 35 pts to make him level 2 pay off? Or would you have preferred to have another 35 pts to spend elsewhere, and would a second scroll have helped?

Catching him seems to be the ONLY problem, though. Once he's cought he's easy enough to fight off. I propose a Disk Rider with the Bronze Armour and Golden Eye. That'll teach that chicken.

As for the level 2, I've never been comfortable with level 1 wizards. They can't get any 'Oomp' behind their ability to cast and cannot reliably cast most spells (I consider reliable an 80 percent chance). Even a level two is difficult at times.

One thing worth noting is that the only spell I actually managed to only ever cast was Flickering Fire, though it did its share of damage. The first game I had Pandaemonium (dispelled every time I tried) and Treason (useless against undead) in addition to 2 Flickering Fires. The second game I had Treason and Flickering on both, but treason was dispelled every time I tried. The last game I only had two turns, but had 2 Flickerings, Treason on Archaon, and call to Glory on the lvl 2 (rolled 5 and 6 for his spells. No way he's getting a 15 on 3 dice); I flickeringed a unit of Wraiths with Irresistable force for 5 wounds.

Besides, a level 2 upgrade pays for 3 things. A power die (+20 pts), a spell (+15 points) and the ability to cast with one more die (+10 or +15, can't recall what the Empire item costs). All this adds up nicely at only +35. Also, since I can't always count on being able to cast the first spell, it's worth having more. I could understand a lvl 1 Heavens mage, as the first spell is very useful, but no a Chaos Sorceror.

KayazyAssassin
20-03-2010, 08:48
i could see the banner of rage working well with the make of nurgle so you have frenzy and minus one to hit