PDA

View Full Version : Attack Immunity - Declared before or after attacks are ordered?



Agnar the Howler
17-03-2010, 19:59
Just a question that popped up in my mind yesterday. My Slaan is immune to all but magical attacks, but would I have to declare this before my opponent declares that he is shooting me/assigning combat attacks to me and before it's too late to go back on it, or after, when he's making/made the attacks?

My thoughts are at either point (or any point in the game) depending on your level of sportsmanship (or how the battle is going/you relying on it being a trick up your sleeve) but I could be wrong.

theunwantedbeing
17-03-2010, 20:13
You arent obliged to declare it any earlier than untill he's been wounded.

Some people might be annoyed by this though.

If you want to play it safe, declare the moment he is hit by an attack he is immune to (so if in combat this is after attacks at that particular initituive value have been declared, so those cannot be rolled against a different target, but attacks made afterwards can).

Nurgling Chieftain
17-03-2010, 20:18
That ability is not a magic item and so must be modeled by making the Slann model transparent. :D

Tarliyn
17-03-2010, 20:21
using the logic the guy above is using that means vamps have to tell me what vamp powers they are using and chaos guys have to tell me what gifts they have at the start of the battle. I am pretty sure that it doesn't work that way and these extra abilities all fall under the same rules as magic items except where noted. But since I have no brb reference or no army book reference that is a purely RAI way of looking at it.

Edit: In other words no. I don't think you have to reveal stuff like that till it becomes relevant.

N810
17-03-2010, 20:21
That ability is not a magic item and so must be modeled by making the Slann model transparent. :D

and I would Except that by casting the Slann in Transparent Resin I would be breaking GW IP laws. :angel: :p

Bodysnatcher
17-03-2010, 23:15
and I would Except that by casting the Slann in Transparent Resin I would be breaking GW IP laws. :angel: :p

You could use a variant on a lost wax casting method with a one use mould. That might work...

Condottiere
18-03-2010, 08:46
That would be spoiling half the fun of watching your opponent try something that turns out to be pointless. How many players would challenge or attack a wispy looking HE Archmage?

Kalandros
18-03-2010, 15:49
But in the Archmage's case it is magic items..

Conotor
18-03-2010, 17:09
The slann can't be shot at anyway. Why do you want more protection on him?

Agnar the Howler
18-03-2010, 23:46
The slann can't be shot at anyway. Why do you want more protection on him?

Excuse me?

Taureus
19-03-2010, 05:37
Excuse me?

He means while within a unit.

We both know running a nigh-unkillable slaan out in the open does nothing but frustrate people. ;)

Feefait
19-03-2010, 20:22
In a tourney or something I would only declare after attacks. against a friend I would say Dude I totally rule and my Slann is immune to your silly magit items. At which point they'd reply 'Suck! but thanks for telling me. and you're an idiot by the way." Thats pretty much the one thing we agree on.

Nurgling Chieftain
19-03-2010, 21:18
In a tourney or something I would only declare after attacks.Most tourneys I've seen actually specify what you do and do not have to display or declare. The rules themselves are relatively fuzzy on the matter.

skuller
19-03-2010, 21:25
Depending on who Im playing I will point to my opponent some rules like HE has ASF, WE move an shoot, forester and the like, I prefer to win because I had better tactics and luck that for taking advantage of my opponents ignorance.

Agnar the Howler
20-03-2010, 02:01
Depending on who Im playing I will point to my opponent some rules like HE has ASF, WE move an shoot, forester and the like, I prefer to win because I had better tactics and luck that for taking advantage of my opponents ignorance.

To be honest, army-wide things like HE ASF shouldn't need to be explained. If your opponent is that ignorant of the enemies he could face, then he deserves what's coming to him (it's hard to justify not knowing a rule that every enemy model has). If he asks for reference, show him the army book and carry on, it's hardly your fault for not pointing out something that should be common knowledge.


He means while within a unit.

We both know running a nigh-unkillable slaan out in the open does nothing but frustrate people.

Ah, that explains a bit (although it's not wholly correct, as cannons and stone throwers can still score hits, as can spells like Buboes and Rule of Burning Iron) although I never mentioned him being in a unit, which is why I was slightly confused.

I'm yet to try out a Slaan in a TG unit, currently i'm having too much fun having him float around on his bill, denying table quarters, scing as a floating target that is immune to most attacks and causing whole units of Empire Knights to melt from an irrestable Spirit of the Forge. My next trick to try is having him stand (float?) in front of a hellblaster voleygun or other warmachine that needs LoS. "Oh, you can't see my unit, my Slaan is in the way... oh, and you can't hurt my Slaan either, your attacks aren't magical... What's that, they are magical? Well lets see what the Divine Plaque of I-have-a-2+-ward-save-against-any-ranged-attacks says about that, eh?

AMWOOD co
20-03-2010, 02:36
I've got three different things I've done.

1. My friends and I, who've been playing together for Lord only knows how long, play it that non-magic item special abilities are all revealed at the start of the game. This avoided little issues of Sacred Spawning, Chaos Marks, etc, and magic items were given a little more reason for costing what they do and being vulnerable to destruction. They are only reavealed once any part of them apply, so the Collar of Khorne would be revealed if I had a chance to take a Ward save or a dispel attempt.

2. The tournament organiser of the last two tournaments I've played at favours an open list. Ask anything about your opponents army and you can know it. The lone exception is things like Assassins (you know they have an assassin, but where is it?) and Fanatics ('you have how many?' I was often asked) which have a defined Hidden rule.

3. One opponent in said tournaments prefers a secret list. If its a special option, reveal it only when it applies. This would include Vampire powers, Ogre names, Chaos Gifts, etc., but did not include Chaos Marks, which is really my thing since I have a rather neutrally painted army. Also, Mark of Tzeentch is obvious if you're riding a disk.

There are other variations. For tournaments, find out what they do. For friendly games, come to an agreement before the match. Bring up difficult issues like Chaos Runeshield and Folarioth's Robe for when to reveal them or the effects of the former on a character with a magic weapon. Just be prepared to concede ground in the short term to get on with things and discuss them later to solve issues. That little dice off rule comes in handy.

RichBlake
20-03-2010, 14:02
Before a game unless you are playing someone you know you should discuss all aspect that might cause any disagreements, either through ignorance or ambiguity. For example I always take pains to point out that hills do not have unlimited height, rather you use true line of sight to see if they block your vision (if you disagree with that statement don't post here saying so and de-rail the thread. At most start a new thread or send me a message).

In a tournament when the lists are not secret I would show my opponent my list and ask them if there is anything they'd like clarifying. If they said "Are there any army wide special rules?" or something like that I would explain, if they did not then I would assume that they knew. If they didn't know then I'd mention it as soon as I realise my opponent wasn't aware (regardless of whether or not the rule was being used in a situation) and explain I assumed they knew of the rule.

In friendly games though unless the other person is clearly a new player to the hobby it is usually safe to assume that they know the generic army wide things, but if you don't have a written down list prepared it is usually best to run through anything that isn't readily identifiable or is particularly complex. For example I'd tell them if my Slann was immune to magical attacks, I'd run over how the Steam Tank/Doomwheel/Abomination works if they said they werent familiar with it etc.

Taureus
22-03-2010, 15:12
Before a game unless you are playing someone you know you should discuss all aspect that might cause any disagreements, either through ignorance or ambiguity. For example I always take pains to point out that hills do not have unlimited height, rather you use true line of sight to see if they block your vision (if you disagree with that statement don't post here saying so and de-rail the thread. At most start a new thread or send me a message).

In a tournament when the lists are not secret I would show my opponent my list and ask them if there is anything they'd like clarifying. If they said "Are there any army wide special rules?" or something like that I would explain, if they did not then I would assume that they knew. If they didn't know then I'd mention it as soon as I realise my opponent wasn't aware (regardless of whether or not the rule was being used in a situation) and explain I assumed they knew of the rule.

In friendly games though unless the other person is clearly a new player to the hobby it is usually safe to assume that they know the generic army wide things, but if you don't have a written down list prepared it is usually best to run through anything that isn't readily identifiable or is particularly complex. For example I'd tell them if my Slann was immune to magical attacks, I'd run over how the Steam Tank/Doomwheel/Abomination works if they said they werent familiar with it etc.

I would wonder how your Slaan was immune to magic attacks, to start...

And what end does full disclosure serve? To prevent the other player from making a tactical mistake by attacking the 5 wound model in a the unit of 1 wound models (should it somehow be in the front rank)...?