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Kalandros
20-03-2010, 15:51
So I was thinking I'd like some type of Dark Elf Guardsmen army, basically 2 units of 20 or 25 Repeater Crossbowmen and more infantry blocks, keeping it relatively 'soft' for Dark Elves.

But is it excessive to be able to fire up to 100 shots at a Large Target, being almost certain to kill it right there and then? Would people be just as annoyed by this than a Hydra or Black Dragon or Pendant/Ring/etc ?

CrystalSphere
20-03-2010, 16:15
The main problem with shooters deployed as rank and file troops is that the formation for fighting (5 wide) is not good for shooting (you pay for crossbows you donīt use). This means that you have to either reform or add ranks when you enemy is closer to you, so the larger the unit is the harder this is going to be for you. Another disadvantage is that if you really wanted to shoot, then you would not move your troops, but with your hybrid "shooty-melee" unit, you will be moving unless you play defensively, and you will miss many shoots that would be better fired by a static dedicate shooter unit.

So my advice is that if you want to make a hybrid unit (like DE crossbowmen on block) you make it small enough (15 is the ideal number) so that you donīt ocuppy too much space on a single rank while you shoot, and can later remove two ranks to form a block (of 5x3). If you go bigger size than perhaps 21 or so (7x3 for lothern sea guard who fight on 3 ranks) you will start having problems using all your range weapons and the same time using your soldiers in melee effectively.

The short version is that if you use a hybrid range-melee unit, you have to make the unit so is able to apply it full effectiveness in both things, not only one of them or one and half.

T10
20-03-2010, 16:32
So I was thinking I'd like some type of Dark Elf Guardsmen army, basically 2 units of 20 or 25 Repeater Crossbowmen and more infantry blocks, keeping it relatively 'soft' for Dark Elves.


A unit of about 20 missile troops is actually quite good. Adding in a full command is less of an overhead cost. Arrange them 6-10 wide for a +1 to +2 rank bonus and deploy them on a hill for improved line of sight and another +1 higher ground bonus. This should pretty much negate the threat of fast cavalry or scouting units.

Also, bigger units mean that you can pack more US into a building: by default buildings can hold US 30 of troops, but only one unit at a time. It's an advantage (of sorts) so use it for what it's worth.

You should bear in mind that even if you don't get to to shoot with each individual model in the unit you've got strength in numbers far in excess of any normal missile unit. Don't compromise that strength by getting greedy and trying to squeeze 100% out of your unit.

I wouldn't recommend more than one such big unit. It's easy to outmaneuver and it can't shoot at more than a single target at a time. If you feel you can afford two such units then you might be better of splitting the second unit into two smaller "detachments".

-T10

Commodus Leitdorf
20-03-2010, 16:37
A unit of 20 Dark Elf Crossbowmen deployed 10 wide and 2 ranks deep armed with shields could be interesting to try out like that. If anything gets to close to them they could re-form and get ready to take a charge.

Kalandros
20-03-2010, 20:13
The main use is shooting down large targets, as ALL models in a unit can shoot at it, not just the first rank or two.

Also leaving my opponent to deploy on hills, I move 5" first round and throw 40~50 shots at whatever is on the hill.. (:

Doomwheel, Jabber, Gorgon, Greater Daemons (maybe even get enough wounds down on the GUO haha), Dragons, Giants..

Djekar
20-03-2010, 21:40
I use Night Goblins in units of 20-21 as bait/fanatic threats and usually give them short bows. To me, it becomes more viable the less important your unit is. My gobbos are going to do jack all anyways, so I might as well give them bows and threaten the 20 odd shots that could plink a wound or two off. With more expensive Elves or Dwarves, the idea seems a bit odd, since you are essentially wasting points which are oftentimes at a premium.

That being said, I'm with T10, I still wouldn't run very many ( I run 2 short bow Night Goblins at 3000+ points) since they have some problems, but I think you'll enjoy the little bit of extra flexibility they give to your list.