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View Full Version : Lizardmen: Anyone use Jungle Swarms? Also Salamanders or Razordons? and Kroxigors.



PrimeMinisterDavidCameron
20-03-2010, 18:27
.

Thanks beforehand!

PrimeMinisterDavidCameron
20-03-2010, 20:18
No help? :-(

Vsurma
20-03-2010, 20:58
It is very hard to come up with a situation where the jungle swarms would be better than a unit of 10 skinks.... so take skinks instead.

I personally run a salamander or 2 in my army lists, never really was interested in razordons. Razors have the same range as skinks, lack poison. I prefer skinks again. Poison shots have more utility, also for the cost of a single razordon you can get a unit of 10 skinks with a champ, 20 shots if at short range or not moving, 20 s3 poison beats artillery dice worth of s4.

The only thing special about the razordons is their ability to double shoot when taking a stand and shoot reaction, but then, who charges something like razordons unless they are either close enough to avoid the stand and shoot, OR if they can take the hits and still come out on top.

Basically it is a unit that works especially well against a poor opponent or one that doesn't know how it works. I don't see how it can ever really excel.

So I don't bother with razordons as I don't like to rely on my opponent making a mistake.

Salamanders I like, against a decent sized block you can get a lot of hits, the forced panic test is also nice and it works well with the lore of death which I take with the slann if I can.

Krox have ws3, that is their biggest problem, the S6 isn't half as good as the S7 was either.

I like them in units of 11-12 skinks and 1 krox, but not alone, this way they get some static combat res and a can take a command.

I often run 1 such units, 1 on each flank, they can take on most units you find on a flank, anything they cant probably won't want to target them anyway as the position will take them out of the main fight for pretty much the entire game. Win-win in my opinion.

That said I am about the only one I know who runs skink/krox units, most people find the t2 skinks to be more harm than good.

PrimeMinisterDavidCameron
20-03-2010, 23:41
Darn, confirms my suspicions.

I really want to use razordons, jungle swarms, and kroxigors. Anyone defend them?

Witchblade
21-03-2010, 05:35
Just because they're not the best unit doesn't mean you can't take them...

Vsurma described the tactical considerations well. I can add units of 2+ razordons got nerfed in the FAQ.

The only defence I could give for these units is that they dó fulfil a semi-unique function in the list. Swarms are, well, swarms. Krox are non-stupid can-openers. Razordons are better at shooting flanking units than salamanders and better in combat (+ fear) than skinks.

snottlebocket
21-03-2010, 08:41
Darn, confirms my suspicions.

I really want to use razordons, jungle swarms, and kroxigors. Anyone defend them?

The rule of cool trumps all other arguments. Take what you love and worry about the rest later. Your army doesn't need to be optimal for friendly games.

Skinks are better than jungle swarms but they're not completely useless. The swarms output enough attacks in close combat to be worrysome for your enemies small support units.

Don't make the swarm part of your main plan like you would with skink skirmishers. Instead use two or so bases to infest a forest and make it decidedly unsafe for enemy skirmishers. Or just lurk them on the flank or rear of an important unit to thwart easy flank charges.

Kroxigor and skink cohorts aren't all that awesome. The skinks tend to die in combat losing you most of the combat res that the kroxigor earn for you. But keep them near saurus units and flank with them. Your opponent will most likely only be able to attack them with 4 or so troopers on his side, even if he kills 4 skinks, that's probably still less than the loss of his rankbonus + whatever your skinks and kroxigor kill. Which is a profit for you in combat res.

Razordons... even I find those hard to justify to be honest. Salamanders are much better and their stand and shoot is a bit of a red herring considering the double amount of shots massively increases your chances of a misfire. Still, if you want them, put them on a flank. They're more than a match for small units of fast cavalry trying to get around your battleline. Marauder horsemen in particular tend to make a beeline for your engine of the gods to try and knock the priest off.

Sparowl
21-03-2010, 10:55
I run two units of three kroxigor, with ancient, in my 2250. They make excellent flankers, survive pretty well with the shooting randomization due to champion, and are generally worth their points.

I don't use salamanders anymore. Too much Immune to Psychology for their flame ability to be useful.

Razordons? Seriously?

I've never used Jungle swarms, although I've heard good things about them.

Vsurma
21-03-2010, 16:31
A champion on ogre sized models (or ones that hit like them) is normally a bad idea, if you do get the charge on an enemy character, or they charge you, you won't be getting all 9 attacks as you will be challenged, this leaves the other 2 kroxigors standing around looking stupid rather than attacking.

I played ogres for a while and learnt the hard way not to put champs in such units. Same happened when I tried running those 3 krox units with a champ.

happy_doctor
21-03-2010, 20:29
Why the negativity, Vsurma? Sparowl's reason for including a champion seems legitimate, I've seen this applied to ogre leadbelchers and maneaters with great results (usually requiring 5 wounds to take out a model). Sure, there's the downside you mentioned, but odds are you'l have something else to go character-hunting for you.

I've been a defender of Jungle Swarms back when they were 60 points a base. The new rulebook made them better, by giving you multiple units and lowering their cost to 45 points a pop. They are far better flank/rear guards than skinks and have the added benefit of being eligible for the "Wolf Hunts" spell from the lore of beasts. (a popular choice for the slann's lore nowadays)
Their 360 line of sight helps them chase away flyers threatening your infantry or bog down enemy heavy hitters for a turn or two, possibly preventing a destructive charge.
Against fast cavalry and/or skirmishers, they are threatened neither by the static CR infantry units can produce nor from the sheer hitting power of cavalry and monsters. What's more, their poisoned attacks can seriously harm lightly-armoured troops such as the ones mentioned before.
Being able to concentrate as much as 10 attacks versus a single infantry model makes them good at assassinating wizards as well (poison helps, too!)

As for salamanders or razordons, they can work well, if treated as a fast, skirmishing, fear causing close combat unit that can also shoot. Razordons are somewhat limited by their inability to elect "flee" as a charge reaction, but then again you get 2 hellblasters' worth of shots when they stand and shoot. I've been on the receiving end of multiple salamander tempates and I can tell you it wasn't pretty; the -3 save tends to make a mess out of armoured units, so cavalry is a viable target at the correct angle.

Tauren
21-03-2010, 21:07
Personally when I finally build a lizardman army, I'm building a fluffy one full of dinosaurs... Razordons? Salamanders? a stegadon? Swarms? terradons? man oh man...

Vsurma
21-03-2010, 21:09
Ok, well the swarms I guess have a role, being unbreakable they can hold up anything!

Even the star dragon I came up against in the past tournament will be held up for a turn, 11 attacks will probably not kill 2 swarms so I can see it having a role, unbreakable sure is nicer than taking the ld test with skinks hoping to pass.

Good point about the wizard assassination.

I might consider them, that said they can't have champs so I think I still might prefer giving up 1 skink champ to a big monster rather than a whole swarm or two, hydras and other non character monsters on the other hand might be held better with the swarm, though the points per wound is higher on the swarm.

Would you run them in units of 2?

I am not convinced the benefit of shooting randomization is worth the risk of losing the unit to an enemy character, I also found that when I was running krox in units of 3 it wasn't enough enough to break units, 4 krox will only cause 5 wounds vs units with ws3 or above. So basically you lose to a unit with 3 ranks, flag, outnumber and a musician.

With only S6 they seem like less of a threat to large monsters as well.

Troah
21-03-2010, 22:35
I used a swarm today and it worked very well for what it needed to do, flank the enemy and hold them at least one turn.

Let me just say that I now have 3 Lizardmen victories. :D I'm Happy.

Sparowl
22-03-2010, 00:05
A champion on ogre sized models (or ones that hit like them) is normally a bad idea, if you do get the charge on an enemy character, or they charge you, you won't be getting all 9 attacks as you will be challenged, this leaves the other 2 kroxigors standing around looking stupid rather than attacking.

As Happy_Doctor said, there's better things for dealing with characters. Slann with the Bane Head and Scar-Vet with the Jaguar Charm are my personal favorites. Oldbloods on Carnosaurs are great as well.

Kroxigors will survive a lot longer with a champion in the unit, and will have a greater impact on the charge. Also, if they are charging and get challenged out, there's a fair chance they'll kill the champion or wound the character at least once or twice.

Stumpy
22-03-2010, 00:24
Ok, well the swarms I guess have a role, being unbreakable they can hold up anything!

Even the star dragon I came up against in the past tournament will be held up for a turn, 11 attacks will probably not kill 2 swarms so I can see it having a role, unbreakable sure is nicer than taking the ld test with skinks hoping to pass.

Swarms crumble, dude. So a star dragon with rider has 10 attacks, if they roll well you lose 10 wounds, which is two swarms, then a further 10 wounds would be lost to crumbling. You'd need 5 swarms to guarantee holding a star dragon for a turn: 225 points of stuff that a dragon will easily avoid.

thechosenone
22-03-2010, 00:59
Swarms crumble, dude. So a star dragon with rider has 10 attacks, if they roll well you lose 10 wounds, which is two swarms, then a further 10 wounds would be lost to crumbling. You'd need 5 swarms to guarantee holding a star dragon for a turn: 225 points of stuff that a dragon will easily avoid.

Sort of not a fair comparison.

I'm not a fan of swarms really but if you have points to spare go ahead. They won't hold a star dragon no but neither will temple guard so yeah. Star dragons need to be targeted with beast cowers or maybe a carnasaur lord with a good weapon and some maybe some cold one riders on the flank.

Swarms are ok.

I like salamanders more against anything but Ogres.

Kroxigores are an expensive model to even buy let alone one or more units. That and they only hit half the time. I'd rather invest in a stegadon. Cheaper then buying three krox, i think, and more effective.

Vsurma
22-03-2010, 01:29
Ok well then I am back to taking skinks over swarms due to the crumble, skinks unlike the swarms WILL hold a star dragon (they did so for many a round at the tournament I played at yesterday) Even a single unit of 10 skinks with champion should hold fairly often, the opponent can get a max cr of 6 in the challenge and you have outnumber so you lose by 5, ld4 on cold blooded with a bsb reroll from the slann holds fairly well and the more units you throw in there the more chances you get that one holds, meanwhile the dragon is killing 1 champ per turn.

And yes, temple guard champs can hold a star dragon, it will die of course, but there is little chance of the temple guard running after this, in fact most temple guard units will start with a static cr of 6 or 7 so you auto win that fight.

As for the champ in the krox, its not so much that I think there is a problem when you are charging, although I suppose it is nice to attack an enemy character with 2 krox rather than 1, this isn't the main issue I have with them.

The main problem I encountered was that of the enemy charging them, declaring a challenge and thus negating the other krox attacks. Many an enemy combat character can charge up to 20" a turn.

If you are saying that the benefit is greater than the potential downside, I can take your word for it, in my experience the effect was the opposite.

Personally I have 10 kroxigor models but they rarely see play with the new book, I have recently started using 2, 1 each in a unit of skinks but the other 8 never hit the table.

Grymlok
22-03-2010, 16:32
It depends on how you look at Warhammer. I for one do use my kroxigor, but then again I will use any model for these reasons:

1) I love the model
2) I'm particularly proud of my paint job on said model(s)

I love my Kroxigors, possibly the best painted unit I have, and for that reason alone I will take them. I'll happily see my army destroyed as long as the entire army looked fantastic!! Okay, I do like to win games too, but it IS the taking part for me. I also use Saurus cavalry just because I love the models.

As for Salamanders, I've had success and failure. I've had one eat all three skink handlers on a D3 missfire roll of 6 with its first attempt to shoot. Only had 3 handlers (my mistake). However I've also had 2 of them go a whole game without a missfire. You've a 1 in 6 chance of missfire so expect some gobbled skinks once per game.

My jungle swarms are home made from the three snake plastic bits that come with the Saurus Cavalry box. They look rubbish, are painted with a paint job that expresses my opinion of how they look, and as such I never take them. (I refuse to buy the proper swarms as I think they are too expensive for what you get)

On Razordons, I've never used them because I haven't bought any. I love the models though, so despite what I've read on Warseer I'll buy them. Remember people on the internet are expressing their opinions. It might be different for you.

Lastly, if you field units that no one else ever does then it gives your opponents something different to play against. I've never fielded an EoG which everyone seems to, but play me and then there will likely be Saurus Cav & Kroxigors so something different for the tactical brain to work at. That in itself can be a nice change.

Elannion
22-03-2010, 16:52
I haven't used swarms in this edition however i always used some in previous editions, they have been very handy units i remember using them to hold up a silver helm unit for a long while and practically destroying it too. I think they have always been a unit that is underestimated, i mean don't get me wrong they are a medicore unit compared to alot of lizardmen units but they aren't awful. However you shouldn't underestimate the effect of the 5 posioned attacks on such a small frontage. i'm inclned to think nowdays though that since saurus can have an amazing amount of attack on the cheap and since swarms crumble they aren't perhaps as worth taking as they once were, even with the price drop...

As for Krox again as someone whos recently come back to warhammer and seen the rules and army book change i'm not sure about these guy, i don't think they are awful and they aren't much worse than they used to be to be fair. But they do seem somewhat medicore compared to the other units you could get...

Cortomaltese
23-03-2010, 01:57
for what it's worth, one of the 2 lizardmen player of my group uses swarms in a sort of combo with the Eotg..
he puts them in front of the big monster and another big juicy unit.. if someone charges them, the swarm will hold, he removes casualties to free space for a countercharge, and furthermore can move very closer with the Eotg-
so he's always able to inflict damage from the burning alignment, and save a turn for his skink priest..

concerning kroxies, it's simple: take the champ against heavy shooting lists (which usually don't have neither fast nor heavy hitting heroes) such as dwarves and empire; leave it at home against HtH oriented lists.
i often field 2 units without skinks, same does the other player, and both of us assign them the role of flankers, or heavy hitters in combo charges..

Vsurma
23-03-2010, 13:01
for what it's worth, one of the 2 lizardmen player of my group uses swarms in a sort of combo with the Eotg..
he puts them in front of the big monster and another big juicy unit.. if someone charges them, the swarm will hold, he removes casualties to free space for a countercharge, and furthermore can move very closer with the Eotg-
so he's always able to inflict damage from the burning alignment, and save a turn for his skink priest..

concerning kroxies, it's simple: take the champ against heavy shooting lists (which usually don't have neither fast nor heavy hitting heroes) such as dwarves and empire; leave it at home against HtH oriented lists.
i often field 2 units without skinks, same does the other player, and both of us assign them the role of flankers, or heavy hitters in combo charges..

How many swarms is he using, the way I see it each base costs the amount of a skink unit (well very close), the skinks will hold the combat just as well, you just need 2 units, if the first one breaks, the opponent overruns into the 2nd unit, if it does not break well then you just saved yourself some points as the skinks don't crumble, and if the enemy is charging with characters, the skink champs can challenge and save some skinks.

Granted this strategy won't allow you to counter charge from behind the screen, only from the side. But then the skinks are far more useful than swarms otherwise.

How many skinks would you use to run that trick? I would say 2 is not enough, so 3? that is already 135pts, seems rather expensive, I think your better of with skinks fleeing from the charge and angling the charged to expose their flank or take them running in an inconvenient direction.

Bladelord
23-03-2010, 13:26
Are the almighty skinks better for rear protection if you run 2 units of saurus blocks?
Something like this I was thinking:
-----------S S S
---WWWWWW WWWWWW
X WWWWWW WWWWWW X
X WWWWWW WWWWWW X

S=Swarm
X=Razordon
W=Saurus Warrior

Skinks can blowpipe everything that'll try to go behind the blocks but swarms will be able to charge/get charged and inflict some damage/100% to hold because of crumble rules.

Vsurma
23-03-2010, 14:15
Apart from dragons and greater demons, are there some other huge rear charging threats?

Against large characters skinks do fine, a unit of 10 with a champ can take the charge, challenge, and lose combat by a maximum of 5 due to outnumber, if your running a slann nearby you should hold.

Anything that can't be challenged, well the skinks don't fare so well anymore in this case.

But the main idea of the skinks isn't really to take a charge, it is to get in the way (skinks do it better) and then flee, remember that when fleeing his units center runs towards your units center in the direction you flee, so you can control where he will run by placing the skinks well, a 12" move helps a lot here.

Also the swarms can't really do much dmg there, the skinks can at least wither away at the enemy, forcing them to make a move faster, other wise said unit at your rear doesn't actually have to charge, they can just hang around annoying you, forcing you to react too their presence.

Bladelord
23-03-2010, 15:34
Ok thanks that was what I thought.

Alltaken
23-03-2010, 16:48
skroxs migth work, I just see them a little frail and 1 krxo seem little hitting power with WS3. But that's me.

Jungle Swarms aren't as good as they seem cause they crumble.... Besides that a unit of 3 swarms can take a charge from nearlly anything and will shurely survive at least to 1 reptile. I can see a Ancient Steg+war spear running around with 2 in front as screen.

I belive they are more relliable to poison damage than skinks since they don't have reductors for movement. But they're really there to take a charge and stand, being unbreakable is what they're best at.

Salies seem great against non immune to psicology, razordons are good against low armor save cav or low count medium infantry.

Bladelord
23-03-2010, 19:18
I once peppered a unit of chaos knights to the ground with my razordons, 6 Artillaery worth of stand & shoot can really be nasty vs frenzy:evilgrin:

N810
23-03-2010, 19:28
I imagine that swarms are best used as roadblocks and flankers,
don't forget that they are small targets and regular troops can shoot over them.
and with movement 5 thet are are reasonably fast.

Malorian
23-03-2010, 19:36
I've found my swarm to be great as the cheapest throw-away unit available to lizardmen... and it's core!

I'm using one currently but would love to get more.

Jormi_Boced
23-03-2010, 19:53
I've found my swarm to be great as the cheapest throw-away unit available to lizardmen... and it's core!

I'm using one currently but would love to get more.

Wesll semi-core. It doesn't count as a core choice for your minimums, but it doesn't take any special or rare slots either.

Vsurma
23-03-2010, 20:32
skroxs migth work, I just see them a little frail and 1 krxo seem little hitting power with WS3. But that's me.

Jungle Swarms aren't as good as they seem cause they crumble.... Besides that a unit of 3 swarms can take a charge from nearlly anything and will shurely survive at least to 1 reptile. I can see a Ancient Steg+war spear running around with 2 in front as screen.

I belive they are more relliable to poison damage than skinks since they don't have reductors for movement. But they're really there to take a charge and stand, being unbreakable is what they're best at.

Salies seem great against non immune to psicology, razordons are good against low armor save cav or low count medium infantry.

Skink krox do have little hitting power, the skinks rarely kill anything and the krox with its ws3 hardly hits either. The unit is a tactical one, hitting enemy flanks is what their are about, that or attacking units you will beat with your static cr.

If you are in fact hitting the flanks then the 1 krox is enough, you only need 1 kill against knights to not have any hits returning your way and against rnf blocks, well most don't hit so hard that it matters too much if you have to deal with 1 or 2 return attacks.

Basically the skink krox unit is like a skink rnf unit, it has the ability to negate ranks, get cheap static cr, have a command group. The krox adds a little hitting power, enough if you are attacking a flank, it also adds a fear causer into the unit meaning you do not have to take fear tests.

Hiro Protagonist
24-03-2010, 01:34
There are many reasons not to take swarms in a competitive list, but they're pretty well explained already. Instead i'll add to Happy Doctor's defense of them. I've had good luck sending lone swarms full speed toward dwarf artillery pieces. I don't think i've ever taken out a whole gun crew, but the swarm routinely stops their firing for several turns.

A lone swarm is cheap enough to be thrown in with no real objective, simply running around to march block, annoy, and distract. Having 5 wounds on a fast little base can have a psychological effect against some inexperienced opponents, chasing away wizard-carrying units and such. In a pinch, i've thrown it against things like a doomwheel. It died that turn, but took another poisoned wound or two off the wheel. Just don't use a lone swarm to block a charge as it will only add to your opponent's effective charge range via overrun.

Like a small regiment of skinks, a swarm or two is cheap enough to add to a list simply to have non-committal units to deploy first before turn one. Your opponent will often have the same ability; this just gives half a chance of seeing real clues of their deployment strategy before you plop down any expensive dinos with specific enemy-hunting roles.

A pair of swarms can claim or contest a table quarter. Yes skinks could do this cheaper and could even give skirmishing to hit penalty, but the swarms will simply never panic away from long range fire and, being small, can easily hide in/behind terrain. In close games i've seen opponents desperately spending power dice in order to try coming up with 5 wounds on the swarm. Always a comical situation when those tiny critters attract such attention.

PrimeMinister- A note on the Kroxigor you'd like to use, (though i think they're quite viable and plenty of people use them.) If the WS3 gives you trouble in battle remember our first two spells in the lore of heavens can help increase their output. You'll likely have a skink priest somewhere nearby, what better place to reroll a to hit than a challenge or a S6 swing? Have fun!

Vsurma
24-03-2010, 01:43
They don't have US1 so I don't believe they get the skirmishing to hit penalty.

Cragspyder
24-03-2010, 05:44
Must defend Salamanders as being awesome. Against anything not Immune to Psychology they are hugely helpful; I disagree on ItP being the standard unless you play in a tournament every day, or maybe I am just luckily to have few Daemons and Undead players.

Against pretty much any other army, constant panic checks WILL get something if you keep them firing; fire them against 20mm base troops and they can kill a LOT; they can even get knights sometimes with the -3 to armour saves. Get the Salamanders behind the enemy if at all possible, so they can crossfire and if anyone panics from the fire they will flee towards the battleline.

I run two which I feel to be the best number, cheap enough to still be a support unit, two chances at a panic check, enough wounds to take some losses (and early lunches on the part of the Salamanders), the most forgiving misfire results in the game, and 4 S5 attacks in an emergency. Three Sallie Teams seems too pricey, one too vulnerable, though I do advocate one Team in smaller games for sure or if you don't have the points for two.

I have to admit I have never tried Razordons or a Swarm. Just by looking at them, Razordons seem to lose almost at everything compared to Salamanders, especially since they cannot declare a flee reaction, and their special S+S ability pretty much destroys their handlers (two chances at a misfire per S+S reaction, per Razordon, and if one out of those misfire then the other is discounted UNLESS it is another misfire :().

I can only see a unit of three being useful (probably with the extra handlers bought as well); used as some sort of shooty/combat flanking unit, and three may be enough to defend from the inevitable charges. You'd have to test them, but I honestly would pick Salamanders.

In regards to Swarms, I don't see much of a use for them. I suppose a large unit can in theory hold up large units with few attacks (with no Heroes; I just recently turned a loss into a draw thanks to a big enemy Rat Swarm in combat with my Scar-Veteran, they are squishy as hell), or one unit can be cheap and inconsequential enough to hunt war machines (or go after a monster with no protection, Giant and Chaos Spawn being the only ones I can think of at the moment), but I haven't heard of many people even bothering, aside from in this thread.

Kroxigor I have used for three editions. I was very sad to have them nerfed so hard, even with the (small) price drop. I recommend a unit of 4, they seem to draw a lot of fire (mine are called Panic-gors since they tend to run away so often), but they can dish it out if they get there.

Target them on the right troops: one important example of this I can remember is when I sent my Kroxigor after some Phoenix Guard, while my Saurus attacked White Lions. It didn't end well and I saw after that I should have reversed that if possible. The Saurus were being slaughtered by ASF S6 attacks, whereas the Kroxigor would have been able to strike back (4-5 ASF wounds is 3 attacks from a 5 wide Saurus unit, but 9 attacks from a 4-Krox unit, and they will kill the Elves easier), and the Kroxigors' hittyness was wasted on the Guard (bounce, bounce).

Kroxigor can also be used against anything with a lot of low S attacks; they did well against Wardancers a while back as not many of the 3 S3 attacks per model were getting through (I charged); I imagine they would also do well against Plague Monks, Savage Orcs and Witch Elves (well, Poisoned Attacks, maybe not). Also, dear lord, if they can hit anything on a 3 then send them over there posthaste as the hittyness just tends to be overwhelming in that case. Also, use them against things with Killing Blow :)

Hope I didn't write this wall of text in vain... I mean, that you got some help from this. :)

maze ironheart
24-03-2010, 09:27
I ues Razordons as flank protectors and they do the job brilliantly.

Alltaken
27-03-2010, 01:37
The deal with sk-kroxs to me is that when not flank chargin cavalry they've got a hard job, unless you take the full line out, they're facing payback. And skinks can't deal with payback

Vsurma
27-03-2010, 10:31
It's true, but even when charging a fully ranked unit, it basically comes down to kills, they will have outnumber, you have flank, banners and flags cancel each other out.

I don't think the odds are that bad, especially considering the unit likely costs twice your price.

How much damage does the average unit do to the flank after losing a model or 2?

That said I tend to combi charge most of the time, or at least bring in support in later turns. The krox also brings the units leadership up to 7, so if you lose by 1 or 2 you can still hold with cold blooded, throw in the bsb and its no problem. (its not like you will be getting flank charges on units really far out on the flank, at least not very often)

The unit won't always work, but I think they do better than most other units.

The thing for me though is that when the unit dies, it doesn't really matter, its 124pts with 1 krox, mus and banner, not a huge deal (I play 2250pts games) it hardly registers, on the other hand when when they get those critical charges in they can save the game.

the other thing is, on the flank if they are charged by something much tougher, say dragon princes or other such knights, as long as I angle the unit so that the enemy runs off the board or at least faces away from the battle line, then great, if they get the charge on turn 3, turn or come back on the board turn 4, get closed to the battle line turn 5, then maybe they get a charge on turn 6.

The battle tends to be over by that time, also at that point I often have very small skink units running around, 1-3 models as the rest are dead, they make fairly nice re-directors.

The banner does become a liability at this point though, as the unit that captured it will likely be happy to take your 100 points from banner, and another possible 100 by taking the quarter, and consider their job done.

Bladelord
27-03-2010, 12:39
Won't they be an easy way for your opponent to get an extra 100 VPs from banner if you run them like that Vsurma?

Vsurma
27-03-2010, 14:29
Yes, well that was kind of my point, it can, though I normally have a unit of skinks to go with them, it will be hard for the enemy to charge what they want when they are outnumbered 2 to 1, but yes, taking the banner does add the risk of you giving away the 100vps.

For me the +1 cr has been worth the risk, at present I have only used the skrox in 2 tournaments, so 7 games in total, so far only once have I lost a unit and given away the flag and 100vps, I run 2 units, so once in 7 games with just 1 of the units, it is not a major concern for me at present, if it starts happening more I might change my mind.