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Gorak
22-03-2010, 00:50
OK at a recent tourney(2000pt) faced archone wiht my vc, stomped a mudhole in me, almost got him with c-res but he's got that damn reroll. Any Ideas on how to beat this uber monster o death?

Dark Apostle197
22-03-2010, 01:32
Vampire counts should be better off than most. Either raise stuff in his way to redirect him or you can tarpit him with easy to raise units.

Xzazzarai
22-03-2010, 03:40
High Elf Prince with Dragon armour, shield, Lance and Null stone on a stardragon?

If you were playing HE atleast... =)

Dantès
22-03-2010, 03:42
Just tarpit with zombies. You'll have plenty of power dice, and he probably (with archeon
@ 2000) doesn't have much by the way of magic or units on the table, so getting your magic through will be easy, and you can just work your way through the rest of his army while he's slaying your summoned zombies.

SatireSphere
22-03-2010, 05:02
Feed him and his unit of knights cheap units all game unless you have a specific way to deal with him. Flagellants, Slayers, Slaves, Zombies (or skeletons, really) all work very well.

Stuffburger
22-03-2010, 12:11
He's basically invincible in CC unless you can somehow flank his unit with a ranked up unit and win by at least 4 so he's guaranteed to run. You win against him by not letting his unit charge anything you care about, maybe plink at it with warmachines or something.

Havock
22-03-2010, 13:06
Easier said than done. He's expensive but he's also a toolbox.
Archaon + 2 lvl 2 mages is very attainable for WoC. He is not -that- expensive.

Coragus
22-03-2010, 14:35
I beat him once with combat resolution when I played O&G. The re-rollable breaktest kept him there and I lost be rank bonus when I got flank charged with knights. I came that close and that was the last time I faced Archaon.

Bladelord
22-03-2010, 14:38
HE Prince on Star Dragon w/ Null Stone, or go heavy & spam the nasty Vauls Umaking on him, or go for static CR & challenge him with the invulnerable Archmage... High Elves are the right army to get the job done!

castellanash
22-03-2010, 14:51
take his head off with a cannon ball....

stiggie
22-03-2010, 14:57
doesnt he always have to challenge like the a normal chaos character? if so try mass static res him,,

max he can get is 5 kills in a challenge,, you can have 3 ranks banner outnumber war banner battle standard maybe even a 4th rank i u use the banner then there is flank/rear,, meaning no matter how well archaon did he would be losing by atleast 3 and a maximum of 6 (with rear and flank),, (providing he isnt with a unit of knights but they arent too hard to kill imho,

plus you can invocation of nehek your champion back every turn (y)

Gaargod
22-03-2010, 20:05
take his head off with a cannon ball....

Good luck with that.

3+ ward save, no wounding on better than 3+ armour and 4 wounds would tend to suggest go away to most cannonballs.

If you'd said take off his head with 10 cannonballs, then that's a bit more likely.

Realistically its:

> Manage to flank his unit with a very killy unit (blood knights + character) and win by sufficient amounts to make him go away.
> Tarpit. You will spend a lot of power dice, especially if he's in knights (first turn win combat if charge a basic knight, next turn Archaon moves into B2B, wins combat and they turn round. Next turn, many zombies die)
> Redirect. Very possible if the unit has angry banner/mark of khorne, a little harder otherwise. Its still ~1000pts for the unit however, so you can afford to spend a little if you crush the rest of the army.


Option 1 means you will probably win the game if you pull it off, whereas 2 + 3 will cost you points and they won't die, short of amazing flukes.

wyvirn
22-03-2010, 20:51
Eh, artilarry can really take him down, once you get past the ward save. thats 1-3 (or 6) wounds becasue that one wound is multiplied. Sure it is unprobable that he will get one shotted, a few good rolls can make a general hesitant about throwing him into combat willy nilly.

Wednesday Friday Addams
22-03-2010, 20:52
Here I thought you were playing Dark eldar in fantasy.

Lord Inquisitor
22-03-2010, 21:02
With Vamps, flanking him with blood knights, black knights or best of all (if you can manage it) a fully ranked grave guard unit with great weapons. Throw in some static res (walking death, war banner, BSB) and you can break him and run him down.

However, if you can get the spell, Beast Cowers works well. A friend of mine ran Archaon at the Ard Boyz semis and ran into a Teclis HElf list that literally Cowered him every turn.

Mullitron
22-03-2010, 21:39
With Vamps, flanking him with blood knights, black knights or best of all (if you can manage it) a fully ranked grave guard unit with great weapons. Throw in some static res (walking death, war banner, BSB) and you can break him and run him down.

However, if you can get the spell, Beast Cowers works well. A friend of mine ran Archaon at the Ard Boyz semis and ran into a Teclis HElf list that literally Cowered him every turn.

Thats not too easy for most mages since he has a magical resistance of 2, but getting it off just once can make all the difference. The advice already given is pretty much the best you can do, vampire counts dont have their own special character of carnage to take him on so i would just and slow him down and challange him with skeleton champions lots.

Lord Inquisitor
22-03-2010, 21:41
Thats not too easy for most mages since he has a magical resistance of 2, but getting it off just once can make all the difference.

Heh, I did say it was a Teclis list... ;)

Mullitron
22-03-2010, 21:52
Heh, I did say it was a Teclis list... ;)

Yeah i know why i said for 'most' mages. : P Teclis as always is the exception but for the average mage its not too easy. Sadly vampire counts dont have their own special character that can single handly have the same impact on a game that teclis or archaon do.

Lord Inquisitor
22-03-2010, 22:04
"Sadly"? I think VCs are bad enough without a Teclis type character. That said, Mannfred the Elder is definately teetering on the edge of broken and can be a useful counter to Archaon, given that he can push through that important Vanhels to flank or tarpit Archaon's knights. Just keep spamming Vanhels until it works.

VonUber
22-03-2010, 22:04
Use a dark elf sorceress to words of pain him and then throw a dread lord with the executioners axe at him. Worked the last time I faced him at 3.5k. It was turn 4. Managed to get him into my unit of black guard with the banner of hag greaf and dread lord with the executioners axe and the blood armour. Cast words of pain on him, first with the level 4 (he got dispeled) then with the level 2. Then the dread lord got 3 hits, 3 wounds. he passed 1 ward, I rolled up 4 wounds on him. Was funny to see the guys face drop. His unit of knights butchered most of my unit but it was worth it.

With VC, force him to charge a unit of zombies and keep him there the entire game and kill the rest of his army.

Stronginthearm
23-03-2010, 00:10
"Sadly"? I think VCs are bad enough without a Teclis type character. That said, Mannfred the Elder is definately teetering on the edge of broken and can be a useful counter to Archaon, given that he can push through that important Vanhels to flank or tarpit Archaon's knights. Just keep spamming Vanhels until it works.

Umm Elder Mannfred is a magic lord with more wounds and a sword, we would love to get a vampy teclis but plz don't compare the absolute magic supremacy available to the elf

KillbotFactory
23-03-2010, 04:41
Mannfred is powerful in his own way. Obviously he doesn't have the 1 man army magic phase that teclis does but I think he was trying to point out that a VC list with Mannfred is still a nasty VC list.

Having a Teclis power caster in the VC list is completely unnecessary.

On topic, the best advice has already been given. Avoid him head on with anything worth points and hope you can put him in a position to flank with something that can break him otherwise be content to just have Archaon chase zombies/wolves/bats all game.

Alltaken
23-03-2010, 15:52
lore of metal, break his ward save and snipe him. Yo can have a malicious amount of dice to make his day a bad one.

Tomb Banshee his unit a lot, a whole lot. Zombiee spam on all sides and win through SCR

There's plenty of ways. Remember you can always bring back your champion so take or call challenges with a unit champ. You can stay there forever under that condition.

CaliforniaGamer
23-03-2010, 15:57
I have actually never seen anyone field Archaon and not beat him. In fact my friend took Orcs and Gobbies to Ard Boyz last year and tabled a WOC Archaon army.

Given he is usually buried in a knight unit, the best bet is to merely get on the flank and destroy his unit with no chance of Archaon reprisial.

Grey Man
23-03-2010, 16:36
Yep, and that's pretty easy to do with VC. Park a unit of hounds right in front of his unit at an angle, and prepare a counter charge into his flank if he moves forward. His choices are:

1. Do nothing
2. Get flank charged

When there's that many points in one character/unit, taking him out of the game is still very good because you have the advantage everywhere else on the board. Nullify him long enough to wipe his other units and it's a win for you.

Lord Inquisitor
23-03-2010, 17:06
Umm Elder Mannfred is a magic lord with more wounds and a sword, we would love to get a vampy teclis but plz don't compare the absolute magic supremacy available to the elf

Actually, I would rate Mannfred as more powerful than teclis in the context of his army and one of the few mages to be able to come close to matching his magical prowess. Invariably taken with the Skull Staff and probably the Black Periapt, he's able to match Teclis' power dice easily - more if he can get into combat and while he can't invoke the Irrisistibles that Teclis can, he can recast the key Invocations or Vanhels with +2 or +1 to cast until they get through. That's brutal.

Bladelord
23-03-2010, 18:15
I still believe that High Elves got the most effectfull ways to bring him down, both in magic, challangeing & items. With Vauls Unmaking you can shoose to desroy his 3+ ward instead of Lore of Metall, then you need some luck rolling 4-6 so the item dissappears completely but your opponent can choose what magic item in the unit to remove.

Stronginthearm
23-03-2010, 23:52
Actually, I would rate Mannfred as more powerful than teclis in the context of his army and one of the few mages to be able to come close to matching his magical prowess. Invariably taken with the Skull Staff and probably the Black Periapt, he's able to match Teclis' power dice easily - more if he can get into combat and while he can't invoke the Irrisistibles that Teclis can, he can recast the key Invocations or Vanhels with +2 or +1 to cast until they get through. That's brutal.

I still think that the irresisstable is more nasty and Teclis has acess to all lores, Mannfreds function is merely as a super raiser although I do think you have a point with the skull staff I respectfully submit that I still think teclis has the edge on nastiness

riotknight
24-03-2010, 06:14
If he's on his own? feed him zombies, if you can get 1 unit into combat with him, and keep them raised, you will honestly raise them faster than he will kill them, on top of that, if he unleashes, he'll probably kill himself.

In a Knight unit? Flank him with something hitty. Grave guard are great for this, but Blood Knights would be ideal, its harder to manage, but pretty much guaranteed to win.

Mullitron
24-03-2010, 09:54
Do most people take him in a unit of knights then? When ive seen archaon played (only a few times) hes normaly by himself taking advantage of his mounts ability to ignore difficult terrain but the chaos player keeps a unit of knights close by incase he needs the extra killing power.

Defender of Ulthuan
24-03-2010, 13:24
Nobody can beat Archaon. With the exception of Grimgor, and only if you give him the Headbutt of Doom power, which is far more than the 685 the Chaos player spent on him.

Flanks, ranks, and spanks for this horrid chap.

Bladelord
24-03-2010, 14:42
That's why Grimgor pwned Archaon in Storm of Chaos:D

danny-d-b
24-03-2010, 15:04
ASF giant him and hope you get pick up and... followed by stuff/eat/squash/pick another

that how I'd kill him

Alltaken
24-03-2010, 15:08
VC's are more than able to keep archaon clintched forever, let him charge a skellie unit and make shure you have a hell load of dices, challenge him every turn. Raise the champ, raise more skellies. That's all you need to keep him there forever.

I believe lore of metal is the thing to target archaon, you break magic items, reduce armour save and 2 spells that can terribly hurt cav removing armour save.

I'd say for a tooled slann it's a walk in the park. 2 discipliunes+Bane head + Cupped hands (since he's a wizard he can also take miscasts). Miscast wounds also target bane head's ability so that another good reason to give him Cupped Hands.

VC's haven't really got it bad against archaon, too many ways to render him useless.

KayazyAssassin
25-03-2010, 03:26
the fellblade could take out him with some good luck

scarvet
25-03-2010, 12:05
Combat res...

SkawtheFalconer
25-03-2010, 16:56
Combat res is absolutely the way to do it. Even with 10 no armour save attacks, it's amazing how many misses he/I can roll. ;)

As several posters have also stated, the other best way to do it is to keep feeding him expendable units, which Undead have got to be the **Kings** of.

shadowprince
26-03-2010, 09:23
I find tyrion cuts threw him like paper.

Mullitron
26-03-2010, 14:15
I find tyrion cuts threw him like paper.

Really!? Is it by surviving so many of archaons attacks that eventually archaon kills himself? I havent got the high elf book but doesnt tyrion only have 4 strength 7 attacks and 2 strength 4 attacks from Malhandir? Hitting on 5's, wounding on 3's not going to kill archaon that well is he? Iam aware hes pretty impossible to kill but archaons also one hard nutt to crack not to mention a terror causer which again correct me if iam wrong tyrion has no immunity to?

P.s not in anyway saying your wrong just asking with the aim to be enlightened as to how.

shadowprince
26-03-2010, 16:00
he essentially outlives him, archean has i believe 10str 5 attacks, so essentially tyrion get 3+ 4+ 4+ and the extra 2 str ends up being a tad better then the attacks in such a slug fest.

Also if you want to look at just nuetralizing archeon, tyrion costs less and they essentially tie eachother up the entire game.

Mullitron
26-03-2010, 16:09
he essentially outlives him, archean has i believe 10str 5 attacks, so essentially tyrion get 3+ 4+ 4+ and the extra 2 str ends up being a tad better then the attacks in such a slug fest.

Also if you want to look at just nuetralizing archeon, tyrion costs less and they essentially tie eachother up the entire game.

Ahh ok fair enough, tho his sword doesnt allow saves so just ward and regen but still see where your coming from. You keep him by himself or with a unit of dragon princes? Because if archaon was supported by a unit of knights they could win the combat and then with his terror auto break them then run him down. Not defo going to happen but enough to personaly make me apprehensive charing him with tyrion and a unit of princes.

Bladelord
26-03-2010, 16:15
If you just want to tie him up with H. Elves, go for Archmage w/ Talisman+Folariaths Robe:) I've said it more than once in this thread...

Morthak
26-03-2010, 16:20
Not true, they both wound eachother on 3's. I once did the math, and Archaon wins, with the sword unleashed. Probably because with only 4 attacks, you still his on 5's because of MoN (his ws is lower than 10 right) and wound on 3's because of the armour of Morkar. He does stand a chance, but that doesn't make him as powerfull as archaon. MR2 and being a lvl2 wizard, 18" general and counting as bsb, plus causing terror!
Archaon is a toolbox, he can manage to leave that unit knights without being in big trouble.

I recommend KB.

Morthak

mav1971
26-03-2010, 23:19
I killed him with my Chaos Lord of Khorne. Ax of Khorne, landed 2 killing blows and he only ward saved one of them.

shadowprince
27-03-2010, 05:37
In how many turns down archeon win? :)

KalEf
27-03-2010, 06:15
Most armies have builds that can take him out. The problem is at a turny, you probably haven't built a list customed to archaon. Straight up he is going to take out almost everything. As mentioned before: If you can't neutralize some of his items... he is almost unfightable. Trying to shoot him sucks as he has high toughness and a great armor save, if you get passed that he has an amazing ward save, 4 wound, and is probably well hidden because he can move through difficult terrain. As stated: Hope your opponent slips up and you can flank him, throw lots of disposable troops at him, ruin his magic items. If using brets, I recommend writing fellblade into king luie's magic items. :shifty:

AMWOOD co
27-03-2010, 08:39
Ooh, conspiring with the enemy. Okay.

Seeing as how I was the one who used Archaon in said tourney (here's the list's thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249693)), I will say what I've faced before that really hurts Archaon. Mind you, that tourney was the first time I've used him in the current book, but most of his tactics still apply.

1. Combat resolution with Resistant character. Trying to win by simply putting 30 men at arms in front of Archaon (or 30 knights it makes no difference to him) doesn't work. You need something to absorb the damage. As such, I suggest a character with a high ward save and/or high toughness. If Archaon can only inflict 1 wound at a time against a standing 5 combat resolution for a few turns, he will eventually break.

2. Artillery. Be merciless. 3 is barely enough. If you know your facing Chaos, and you are Empire or Dwarfs you should have plenty of cannons anyway. High Elves, Dark Elves and Greenskins can load up on Bolt Throwers. Everyone else, look elsewhere.

3. Nullifying items. Law of Gold / Vaul's Unmaking. Problem with these is his magic resistance. Also consider things like the Chaos Runeshield, Greedy Fist, Rune of Breaking (is that what it's called?), and other such items. Taking the bite out of Archaon's sword really hurts him. Combat res can do the rest.

4. More powerful fighters. The ultimate combat character for duels that I have seen is an Ogre Tyrant with the Tenderiser (great weapon, D3 wounds), Wierdstone Shard (5+ ward, 1/6 chance losing a wound at start of game), Greedy Fist (+1 armour, if a successful save (any save) is made then enemy's magic weapon is destroyed), Maw Seeker (+1T, Stupid). Most likely, Archaon will be facing down a model with T6, 5W, a 5+ save that if even 1 is made then Archaon's sword goes bye-bye. He then faces a foe who likely only has to make 2 successful wounds hitting on a 5 and wounding on a 3, with saves of 5+ and 3+. Also worrisome are Karl Franz (Hammer of Sigmar) and Grimgor (hatred, 7 S7 attacks). Anything with killing blow is worth a second glance at too, though usually I charge into it anyway (it has taken him down a time or two, though).

If he's with his knights, nullifying most of these tactics, then try to flank him. The easiest way to outfight him is to not let him fight.

Tarpitting only works if nothing arrives to help him. If the original poster is who I think he is, then Archaon did end up in contact with a unit of 25 zombies, but so did my unit of Khorne Knights. The unit was dead in 1 round even though he had his full rank bonus.

Wounding himself? 1/6 chance for to hit, 1/2 for to wound, 1/3 to get past ward. That's 1/36. 10 Attacks usually, so only 1/3.6 that he'll wound himself in a given round of combat. I beat the odds, it seems (at least 10 rounds, wounded himself once).

Things not to do:

1. Send knights after him. Heavy cavalry are usually small units, so have little combat resolution and Archaon kills anything without a ward or regeneration as easily as any other. Inner Circle Knights are as easily dealt with as halberdiers or handgunners (maybe easier since handgunners can shoot him on the way there).

2. Use offensive magic. Most damaging spells will be shrugged off between his ward save, armour, toughness, or whatever stat he must test on. Also, most bound spells that target him won't work as his magic resistance will nullify them.

3. Small arms fire. You can if you're desperate, but it won't likely work. Bows and crossbows I practically laugh at. Hanguns are slightly more worrisome, but not much. They only have a 1/27 chance of wounding him AFTER they hit him.

That should pretty much cover it. I hate it when the top 4 happen and love it when the bottom three do.

Morthak
27-03-2010, 15:56
Tyrion vs Archaon with sword is 39/81 vs 89/72. Without sword it's 11/54 vs 49/72. That's pure mathhammer, but Archaon comes out both times. Archaon is canned in better, a 5+ save and a 3+ ward is better than 4+/4+ of tyrion. It is the mark of nurgle that makes the most difference.

Morthak

AMWOOD co
27-03-2010, 16:32
Tyrion vs Archaon with sword is 39/81 vs 89/72. Without sword it's 11/54 vs 49/72. That's pure mathhammer, but Archaon comes out both times. Archaon is canned in better, a 5+ save and a 3+ ward is better than 4+/4+ of tyrion. It is the mark of nurgle that makes the most difference.

Morthak

Where did those numbers come from?

Tyrion's chance to wound Archaon is 4/81 each attack. Harsh. Archaon's chance to wound Tyrion is 5/48. The real killer is that Archaon has 10 attacks, making it about 1 wound per round while Tyrion only has 4, needing about 4 rounds per wound. Yes, Archaon may hurt himself, but the odds of that don't change how this is stacked.

Without the sword, Archaon's chances drop significantly. Tyrion would have his 0+ armour reinstated (2+ still at Archaon's strength) and his attacks reduced by half. Suddenly Archaon's chances are reduced to 5/288 per attack with only 5 attacks. It will take him 11 or 12 rounds for each wound.

The horses have to fight through so much armour on either side that their numbers would be miniscule so I won't do them now, but I don't think they're that big a deal (and I don't have my High Elf book on hand).

Archaon's sword is his real power. Destroy it and you've defanged the monster. Problem is that it's an important thing, so Law of God won't be enough to get it away from him. Use other means.

Morthak
27-03-2010, 19:22
Where did those numbers come from?

Well Tyrion does indeed have 4/81 chance to wound Archie per attack, 16/81 total. The horse has an 1/162 chance to wound and Archaon has a 45/162 chance to wound himself using the sword.

And for Archaon: 10 x 2/3 = 20/3 hits, x 5/6 = 100/18 wounds , x 1/4 = 25/18 not warded or regenerated. Slightly more, as I forgot Tyrion only having T3, not 4 (the wimp). Archaon has a 10 x 1/6 = 10/6 hits, x 1/2 = 10/12 wounds , x 1/3 = 5/18 chance to wound himself. A little oversight as I forgot Tyrion still had an armoursave against Dorghar, it's quite a bit less: 5 x 1/2 = 5/2 hits, x 5/6 = 25/12 wounds, x 1/6 = 25/72 x 1/4 = 25/288 not warded or regenerated.

So, it's 1+45/162 + 16/81 = 78/162 = 39/81 chance that archaon is wounded per turn, slightly less than 50%, vs 425/288 chance to wound tyrion, about 150%, three times as much as Tyrion.

We have a winner!


Ofcourse his chances will drop without the sword, with his rather unimpressive strength (for an everchosen) the no-AS sword is worth it's weight in warpstone.

Yes Tyrion is quite a match for Archaon in combat prowess and in defence, but Archaon's leadership abilities make up for alot. Terrorcausing, 18" Ld 10 General being a BSB is quite huge, especially for WoC who lack such high leadership.

Still I'd say Killing Blow is the way to go, passing it's armoursave and giving you a 1/18 chance to kill him after you've hit him (still not that much).

Morthak

Bladelord
27-03-2010, 19:33
It's quite sad that Tyrion don't have his old special rules anymore:(

KalEf
27-03-2010, 20:52
It's quite sad that Tyrion don't have his old special rules anymore:(

parry: yes. 2+ward and come back to life... not so much

Ultra Sonic0
27-03-2010, 21:47
I would suggest using vampire count with a frost blade and the infinite hatred, dread knight/avatar of death and red fury powers meaning all you have to do is wound him a single time with re-rolls and you kill him. It is not killing blow so he cant avoid it.:skull: Also if he has higher initiative than you (i have no idea) you may want a corps cart to cast miasma of deathly vigour upon him so he can strike first or alternatively vhanells danse macabre. If the archon survives that then he is either a god, you are so unlucky you should have been struck by lightning or your opponent is cheating.:shifty:

P.S. the frost-blade is also hilarious against big monsters. Once i had a frost blade, hunter in the dark and flying horror against lizard men, flew at an ancient stegadon and killed it first turn! The look on my opponents face was priceless!:D

Bladelord
27-03-2010, 21:47
I really loved the CURSE of Aenarion rule. A Curse that makes him better:D

Ultra Sonic0
27-03-2010, 21:49
of course you could just kill him with magic but i always feel cutting off the guys head in person is much more satisfying, gives you better bragging rights and avoids snide jabs about your vampire counts strength including cowardice.=(

KalEf
27-03-2010, 23:33
After joking about king Lewie + fellblade Killing him. I think the new story arch should have the good guys on the offensive. And he should be killed in the chaos wastes by Lewie with the fullblade.

Seville
28-03-2010, 00:10
I have actually never seen anyone field Archaon and not beat him. In fact my friend took Orcs and Gobbies to Ard Boyz last year and tabled a WOC Archaon army.


LOL. No. That didn't happen. Good joke, though.

AMWOOD co
28-03-2010, 04:29
And for Archaon: 10 x 2/3 = 20/3 hits, x 5/6 = 100/18 wounds , x 1/4 = 25/18 not warded or regenerated. Slightly more, as I forgot Tyrion only having T3, not 4 (the wimp). Archaon has a 10 x 1/6 = 10/6 hits, x 1/2 = 10/12 wounds , x 1/3 = 5/18 chance to wound himself. A little oversight as I forgot Tyrion still had an armoursave against Dorghar, it's quite a bit less: 5 x 1/2 = 5/2 hits, x 5/6 = 25/12 wounds, x 1/6 = 25/72 x 1/4 = 25/288 not warded or regenerated.

I'm just going to parry number with you. Archaon and Tyrion both have WS9, so Archaon actually hits Tyrion on a 4+, not a 3+. Thus, he makes 5 hits, not 6.667. It's actually 25/24 for the number of wounds Archaon himself is expected to make after ward and regen. Dorghor's expected is also significantly less. 1/3 to hit x 5/6 to wound x 1/6 armour x 1/4 for ward and regen. Chance per attack is 5/432 with only 3 attacks. Can we call this insignificant? No? Okay...

Tyrion is expected to take 25/24 + 5/144 = 155/144. This is just greater than one. Still doesn't change the expected outcome of Archoaon turning Tyrion into paste, but not by the expected margine. Tyrion needs 8 rounds and Archaon needs 4. Still, Tyrion does strike first, giving him a slight advantage, but this is two tanks bashing heads.

Now, to beat Archoan with Tyrion, have a battle standard in the same unit carrying the Battle Banner. If Archaon is soloing it, then he'll like score 1 wound to nill, but still lose by at least 3 (outnumber, battle banner, unit standard, roll of 1 on Battle Banner) and up to 12 (add to the above: Warbanner in unit, full ranks, 6 on the roll for Battle Banner). Yeah, it's not fair, but who needs fair when dealing with Archaon?

AMWOOD co
28-03-2010, 04:42
If you just want to tie him up with H. Elves, go for Archmage w/ Talisman+Folariaths Robe:) I've said it more than once in this thread...

I'll be... (checking High Elf Book)... Okay, awesome. Effectively invulnerable if he's in a unit against anything without naturally magic attacks or seeking spells. I'll have to remember that.

Alternatively, to bring the fight TO Archaon, consider a High Elf Prince on barded steed, Talisman of Saphery, Helm of Fortune, shield, heavy/dragon armour. 1+ rerollable armour save (3+ against Archaon) and no magic sword with 40 points to spare for your own weapon, say the Blade of Sea Gold (Ignore armour). Can someone work out the math? It's getting late here. HE Prince is WS7 S4 T3 3W 4A.

Also to consider: White Sword + Talisman of Loec. What better way to get past the ward than to make him take it again if he passes?

ROCKY
28-03-2010, 05:57
I'll be... (checking High Elf Book)... Okay, awesome. Effectively invulnerable if he's in a unit against anything without naturally magic attacks or seeking spells. I'll have to remember that.

Alternatively, to bring the fight TO Archaon, consider a High Elf Prince on barded steed, Talisman of Saphery, Helm of Fortune, shield, heavy/dragon armour. 1+ rerollable armour save (3+ against Archaon) and no magic sword with 40 points to spare for your own weapon, say the Blade of Sea Gold (Ignore armour). Can someone work out the math? It's getting late here. HE Prince is WS7 S4 T3 3W 4A.

Also to consider: White Sword + Talisman of Loec. What better way to get past the ward than to make him take it again if he passes?

errr ya, do u know that the slayer of kings ignore armor? your 1+ rerollable armor save has become effectively your coffin. and you will be hitting him on fives, wounding him on 5s and only 4 attacks. while he will hit u on 3s bust u up on 2s and can have up to 10 armor ignoring attacks. +3S5 attacks from his mount. you want a guaranteed method(and not exaggerated method like some of these funny posts?), then either 1) divert or tie him down with cheap units, 2) annihalate the unit hes with.

riotknight
28-03-2010, 06:35
errr ya, do u know that the slayer of kings ignore armor? your 1+ rerollable armor save has become effectively your coffin. and you will be hitting him on fives, wounding him on 5s and only 4 attacks. while he will hit u on 3s bust u up on 2s and can have up to 10 armor ignoring attacks. +3S5 attacks from his mount. you want a guaranteed method(and not exaggerated method like some of these funny posts?), then either 1) divert or tie him down with cheap units, 2) annihalate the unit hes with.

Talisman of Saphery Nullifies Magic weapons.

Seville
28-03-2010, 08:10
errr ya, do u know that the slayer of kings ignore armor? your 1+ rerollable armor save has become effectively your coffin. and you will be hitting him on fives, wounding him on 5s and only 4 attacks. while he will hit u on 3s bust u up on 2s and can have up to 10 armor ignoring attacks. +3S5 attacks from his mount. you want a guaranteed method(and not exaggerated method like some of these funny posts?), then either 1) divert or tie him down with cheap units, 2) annihalate the unit hes with.

Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with all these people saying some pansy High Elf can take Archie in a straight up fight. There's not anything in the game that can take Archie in a one-on-one. Forget it. You gotta nail him through some form of sniping or combat res. That's it.

KayazyAssassin
28-03-2010, 08:36
high elf noble with a null stone on a dragon with a great weapon should do it nicely

ROCKY
28-03-2010, 09:01
Talisman of Saphery Nullifies Magic weapons.

so it negates him ignoring armor, u still have to save 10 S5 attacks which wound u on a 2, and how exactly are u going to wound him? wounding him on 3s at best, 1+armor, 5s to hit, and a 3+wardsave, and if ur dude on a dragon is fighting him in a challenge u lose, he will go after the dragon doing about 2-3 wounds and possibly 1 for dorgar, u do maybe 1, then u have the problem of outnumber (if hes with knights), standard, etc, and if he has a hero in there with sophoric musk, thats pretty much ur dragon getting run down. only an idiot would field archaon by himself (or worse in a frenzied unit lol). so yeah, another nasty combo i have seen in my years of playing is putting him in a big unit of chaos warriors. they are tough, will do wounds and having him in with em is just that much more nasty.

ROCKY
28-03-2010, 09:07
high elf noble with a null stone on a dragon with a great weapon should do it nicely

how many points is the null stone? if its anywhere 80 and above points, u still have one massive problem, hitting him on 5s, and his 1+armor and 4 wounds, and not being able to wound him better than on 3s. then u have to worry about 8S5 hits after that from him and his mount. which if ur noble is not armored enough will get slapped off his dragon. these are all great ideas, but its still careless and noobish to merely think because you THINK you might have a solution that you are now able to take on someone that strong. the best way is the way which utilizes tactics. anyone can make character killers but they need luck, i could say my khornelord with the axe if khorne getting lucky and hitting him with a killing blow and him failing his save made my character even more UBER than archaon, in reality, i got lucky thats it. take my advice, be smarter and dont measure your balls with people for the sake of it. if it pays off then sure, if you know you have other options use them.

Mullitron
28-03-2010, 09:27
I think the tactics suggested for high elves are viable against most uber character's of death like archaon. But i agree archaon is the exception (he is the ever chosen after all) even with the null talisman a high elf prince of dragonhas issues since its not just his sword that makes archaon amazing its his insane defense. Dont forget it you do manage to break him he counts as a bsb and can reroll failed attempts.

Morthak
28-03-2010, 11:31
Sorry about the wrong calculations, forgot Archie only has ws9 and his mount 4. I was thinking he had something 10 and the mount was at least better than a jugger.

I still don't think you will see him charging into a unit with a scr of 5 or more, with a supercharacter in there. If your opponent charges in it with him you shoudn't be to worried anyway.

I just love how archaon is all in one, bsb, wizard, makes his unit tougher against ranged attacks and magic and a great way to get Ld10 in a WoC army. The one and only weakness is his points cost.


Morthak

Master Shake
28-03-2010, 11:44
Hit archons unit with blood knights and put all the S7 attacks into his unit. Make hime lose by enough to need snake eyes. I've seen it done turn 2. Give the unit the regen banner and load it with a wight lord with the banner, and another vamp.

Panzeesmasha
28-03-2010, 12:33
I know you asked about VC but this is something i've pondered..

I haven't done the maths but for laughs how about a goblin warboss with Lucky's Dirk, Amulet of Protectyness, Tricksy Trinket and Spiteful Shield? Archaon would almost certainly still win but it might be funny. Archaon can't take wardsaves (tricksy trinket), the gobbo - thanks to Lucky's Dirk - (although he only has 4 attacks) gets an extra point of strength for each magic item Archaon has (a lot!) and counts as having the same armour and wardsave as Archaon - thanks to amulet of protectyness. In addition, each roll of 1 that Archaon makes to hit he suffers a s5 hit from the spiteful shield. Not a biggy but you never know... especially as he can't take wardsaves!

All for about 145pts too :-). For getting nearer equal points, could also put the Gobbo on a wolf with a huge ranked up unit of wolfriders for extra CR (and maybe a bsb with a warbanner).

ROCKY
28-03-2010, 14:41
I know you asked about VC but this is something i've pondered..

I haven't done the maths but for laughs how about a goblin warboss with Lucky's Dirk, Amulet of Protectyness, Tricksy Trinket and Spiteful Shield? Archaon would almost certainly still win but it might be funny. Archaon can't take wardsaves (tricksy trinket), the gobbo - thanks to Lucky's Dirk - (although he only has 4 attacks) gets an extra point of strength for each magic item Archaon has (a lot!) and counts as having the same armour and wardsave as Archaon - thanks to amulet of protectyness. In addition, each roll of 1 that Archaon makes to hit he suffers a s5 hit from the spiteful shield. Not a biggy but you never know... especially as he can't take wardsaves!

All for about 145pts too :-). For getting nearer equal points, could also put the Gobbo on a wolf with a huge ranked up unit of wolfriders for extra CR (and maybe a bsb with a warbanner).

and thats why people accept with unit champs, so that archaon and worry about annihalating the unit, so assuming the goblin survives against champ hes gonna realise his unit was turned into toothpaste :eyebrows:

AMWOOD co
28-03-2010, 18:03
so it negates him ignoring armor, u still have to save 10 S5 attacks

Okay, the thing about nullifying the Slayer of kings is that he goes from having 10 Attacks that ignore armour to having only 5 attacks that don't. It is his sword that doubles his attacks, and without it Archaon loses his bite. That's why I proposed the Blade of Sea Gold, as it ignores armour. I haven't done the math, but then again, the goal is to prevent Archaon from doing too much and killing him by other means than relying on great ones like Tyrion.

AMWOOD co
28-03-2010, 18:26
Also to consider: White Sword + Talisman of Loec. What better way to get past the ward than to make him take it again if he passes?

Okay, I want to actually do the math for the killing blow for this one. For those not in the know, the White Sword is on foot only, a great weapon and gives killing blow. The talisman of Loec allows the bearer to reroll all rolls to hit, to wound, and all enemy successful saves against those attacks for a single combat phase, after which the bearer suffers 1 wound with no saves allowed.

Can a Prince with these deal killing blow at a decent rate against the Lord of the End Times?

to hit: 1/3 + 2/3 x 1/3 = 5/9
killing blow: 1/6 + 1/3 x 1/6 = 4/18 = 2/9
Archaon's ward save: 1 - (2/3)^2 = 5/9

Thus prob per attack: 50/729 ~ 6.9%
Well, so much for that idea. With 4 attacks, the odds are only 24.7% of getting a successful killing blow. Still, should do well against anyone else. Maybe I'll use him in the future.

KalEf
28-03-2010, 21:23
taking out his sword neuters him A LOT. a fight between him and a lord on jugg with the rune shield probably won't be resolved over the course of a 6 turn game. They only end up doing a third of a would per turn to each other lol. If they are in a challenge, it will come down to every one around them doing their job.

On the funny side of things that goblin with his magic Items actually has an ok shot of taking out archy! still statistically a little behind, but not by much... and it would be awesome to watch! To be honest, he is tougher with armor of gork... but the lucky dirk and spiteful shield combo are way cooler.

Also the venom was a "little high" on the archy vs the high elf+dragon+nullstone They should do the 2 2/3 wounds to him... no that wont kill him (darn -1 to hit). If he is in a unit; I would charge with both your character and your own unit of knights, there are ways you should then be able to win in cc. If he is on his own: soften him up first. if you're within 6 inches everything can hurt him a lot easier lol

H33D
28-03-2010, 22:55
Yeah, I'm not sure what's up with all these people saying some pansy High Elf can take Archie in a straight up fight. There's not anything in the game that can take Archie in a one-on-one. Forget it. You gotta nail him through some form of sniping or combat res. That's it.

Thorgrim has done it for me many times over. I have had Archon flee, rally, charge, flee, rally, charge, flee, get charged down by a gyrocopter several times. Thorgrim has delivered the final blow once or twice. Archaon is quite a sissy actually compared to the King of the Dwarves. But who isn't?

shredshredxx
28-03-2010, 22:57
a wight king regen banner+combat vampire lord+great weapon grave guard deathstar.

that's what i did.

Seville
29-03-2010, 05:41
Thorgrim has done it for me many times over.

No, he hasn't. You're just making stuff up now.


I have had Archon flee, rally, charge, flee, rally, charge, flee, get charged down by a gyrocopter several times.

No, that's never happened even once. Forget about "several times". Archaon losing combat to a gyrocopter? I don't think so.


Thorgrim has delivered the final blow once or twice. Archaon is quite a sissy actually compared to the King of the Dwarves. But who isn't?

LOL. Whatever.

Mullitron
29-03-2010, 11:07
I think thorgrim can take archaon on, but he is the dwarfs own uber special character of legend, with legendary weapon etc. But anyone who sends archaon in against a grave guard unit with a vamp and a wight bsb or a dwarf unit of iam assuming hammers with thorgrim by himself is asking for him to be killed. Archaon is strong but breakable, he may be able to take on small units of elite cavalry such as blood knights in one turn but charging a big block of elite troops with strong characters leading it all alone is not going to get the best results.

Bladelord
29-03-2010, 11:39
Wow that gobbo took the price!

ROCKY
29-03-2010, 17:19
I think thorgrim can take archaon on, but he is the dwarfs own uber special character of legend, with legendary weapon etc. But anyone who sends archaon in against a grave guard unit with a vamp and a wight bsb or a dwarf unit of iam assuming hammers with thorgrim by himself is asking for him to be killed. Archaon is strong but breakable, he may be able to take on small units of elite cavalry such as blood knights in one turn but charging a big block of elite troops with strong characters leading it all alone is not going to get the best results.

I love this post. this is what i have been trying to point out, good opponents will AVOID throwing archaon at everything, they will let him flank or dual charge with another unit, archaons job is a massive hammer to help ur other units break people.

H33D
29-03-2010, 17:41
No, he hasn't. You're just making stuff up now.



No, that's never happened even once. Forget about "several times". Archaon losing combat to a gyrocopter? I don't think so.



LOL. Whatever.

When you are fleeing you are forced to flee any charges. When you flee a charge from a gyrocopter it doesn't matter if you are Archaon or a peasant skirmisher, you get ran down. Do you even play this game? And yes, Thorgrim has always won for me. He is T5 with 7 wounds and a 4+ ward save. And my wounds multiply D3. You are hitting on 3s wounding on 4s and then the 4+ save. I am hitting on 5s wounding on 3s and multiplying. I take a few hits but Archaon has a lot less wounds and his ward save doesnt catch everything.

You must be one of those people that throw power armies on the table with cheesy lists and run forward smashing things and think it makes you a good general. Pick up a rule book sometime.

ColShaw
29-03-2010, 17:51
20 Bretonnian Men-at-Arms, Full Command: 127 pts
Paladin BSB, Virtue of Duty, War Banner: ~120 pts

Challenge Archaon with the Men-at-Arms champion.

Archaon beats the snot out of him, getting (best-case scenario) 6 wounds' worth static combat res.

The Men-at-Arms have +8 combat res, and win by 2.

Next turn, flank Archaon with something else with a champion. Challenge again. Best-case scenario for Archaon now is losing by 3.

Combat res, all the way.

Tarian
29-03-2010, 18:04
I got Archaeon into combat with my HE prince once, 1+ AS, count magic weapons as Mundane and Star Lance. Though I'm not sure he'd ever actually *kill* Archaeon, he did an admirable job of tying him up until the BSB could show up with the Battle Banner to break him.

ROCKY
29-03-2010, 18:52
20 Bretonnian Men-at-Arms, Full Command: 127 pts
Paladin BSB, Virtue of Duty, War Banner: ~120 pts

Challenge Archaon with the Men-at-Arms champion.

Archaon beats the snot out of him, getting (best-case scenario) 6 wounds' worth static combat res.

The Men-at-Arms have +8 combat res, and win by 2.

Next turn, flank Archaon with something else with a champion. Challenge again. Best-case scenario for Archaon now is losing by 3.

Combat res, all the way.

or the unit champion challenges, archaon then destroys ur bsb and a few men at arms, and the chaos warriors/knights kill all 20 guys ^_^

Tarian
29-03-2010, 18:58
or the unit champion challenges, archaon then destroys ur bsb and a few men at arms, and the chaos warriors/knights kill all 20 guys ^_^

That's why you hide the BSB out of Archaeon's base reach, usually by tagging him on the side of the receiving unit.

Jerrus
29-03-2010, 21:28
how many points is the null stone? if its anywhere 80 and above points, u still have one massive problem, hitting him on 5s, and his 1+armor and 4 wounds, and not being able to wound him better than on 3s. then u have to worry about 8S5 hits after that from him and his mount. which if ur noble is not armored enough will get slapped off his dragon. these are all great ideas, but its still careless and noobish to merely think because you THINK you might have a solution that you are now able to take on someone that strong. the best way is the way which utilizes tactics. anyone can make character killers but they need luck, i could say my khornelord with the axe if khorne getting lucky and hitting him with a killing blow and him failing his save made my character even more UBER than archaon, in reality, i got lucky thats it. take my advice, be smarter and dont measure your balls with people for the sake of it. if it pays off then sure, if you know you have other options use them.

The Nullstone costs 100p, but it nullifies ALL magic items within 6'', i.e. no armour save, no ward save, can be wounded on 2+, doesn't cause terror, no break-test rerolls. Which can be quite annoying when coupled with a Star Dragon or a unit of Knights.

Tarian
30-03-2010, 00:13
Better kill him very quickly, because it also means the Prince has no magic items, so at best a 4+ AS and T3.

KayazyAssassin
30-03-2010, 01:24
how many points is the null stone? if its anywhere 80 and above points, u still have one massive problem, hitting him on 5s, and his 1+armor and 4 wounds, and not being able to wound him better than on 3s. then u have to worry about 8S5 hits after that from him and his mount. which if ur noble is not armored enough will get slapped off his dragon. these are all great ideas, but its still careless and noobish to merely think because you THINK you might have a solution that you are now able to take on someone that strong. the best way is the way which utilizes tactics. anyone can make character killers but they need luck, i could say my khornelord with the axe if khorne getting lucky and hitting him with a killing blow and him failing his save made my character even more UBER than archaon, in reality, i got lucky thats it. take my advice, be smarter and dont measure your balls with people for the sake of it. if it pays off then sure, if you know you have other options use them.

the null stone nullifies all of his magical items then you use a lance with dragon armour and shield on a dragon and hope for the best

sorry for the double post

Paraelix
30-03-2010, 02:07
OK at a recent tourney(2000pt) faced archone wiht my vc, stomped a mudhole in me, almost got him with c-res but he's got that damn reroll. Any Ideas on how to beat this uber monster o death?

Use spelling and grammar?

Seville
30-03-2010, 03:47
Hey, guys, apparently Thogrim beats Archaon every single time. So, there's the answer to the OP's question. Thorgrim and a Gyrocopter.

eyescrossed
30-03-2010, 05:40
Hey, guys, apparently Thogrim beats Archaon every single time. So, there's the answer to the OP's question. Thorgrim and a Gyrocopter.

Do you reply with snide comments every time you can't counter someone's points? I mean, not that you actually ever do counter peoples' arguments with valid points, generally just veiled "lol imma better gamer than u"

Amirite?


On the actual topic, I agree with whoever said a Chaos Lord with a Runeshield, or anything durable with a magic item nullifying thing that can bog him down.

Peregijn
30-03-2010, 07:08
how about a goblin lord on a wolf with the following setup:
dagger of +1Strengt for each magic item your opponent has
amulet of protectyness: same armor and wardsave as the model that wounded you
talisman of ignoring opponents ward save.

the goblin sudenly has archaons saves, and 4 s8 attacks.
i lost archeon once on this setup. took me by suprise...

edit: in a challange and i had real bad luck

KalEf
30-03-2010, 07:27
Do you reply with snide comments every time you can't counter someone's points? I mean, not that you actually ever do counter peoples' arguments with valid points, generally just veiled "lol imma better gamer than u"

On the actual topic, I agree with whoever said a Chaos Lord with a Runeshield, or anything durable with a magic item nullifying thing that can bog him down.

I'll take credit! weather I deserve it or not.

I guess I'll help out. archaon does about 8 wounds by his 5th combat. The king does about 2 (actually about 4 then) by his 6th combat. so it is very close.

oh and sephiroth rules.

Seville
30-03-2010, 16:46
Do you reply with snide comments every time you can't counter someone's points? I mean, not that you actually ever do counter peoples' arguments with valid points, generally just veiled "lol imma better gamer than u"

Amirite?



LOL. You're not worth my time or effort.

AMWOOD co
31-03-2010, 01:45
Okay, I'm going to do number for the Elf Prince with a Null Stone on a Star Dragon. The Prince has heavy/dragon armour, a shield and a lance in addition to his very expensive item.

Note, the Null Stone makes armour work as the mundande version of itself. I'm counting the Armour of Morkar as Chaos armour with a shield. Without it's magical properties, Arhcaon has a 2+ save (4+ chaos armour, +1 shield, +1 mounted).

Prince on charge: 1/3 to hit x 2/3 to wound x 2/3 armour save x 4 attacks = 16/27 wounds
Prince after charge: 1/3 to hit x 1/3 to wound x 1/3 armour save x 4 attacks = 4/27 wounds per round
Dragon: 1/3 to hit x 5/6 to wound x 5/6 armour save x 6 attacks = 25/18 wounds per round


Archaon will direct all his attacks against the Prince: 2/3 to hit x 5/6 to wound x 5/6 armour save x 5 attacks = 250/108

Prediction: Arhcaon will take 2 wounds in the first round and deal 2 to the Prince. He loses the fight by 1 from outnumber, but will likely pass his Break Test on a 9 (he's immune to terror so he won't autobreak). Round 2, the Prince will not harm Archaon, Archaon will kill the Prince, and then the dragon has a pissed off, repowered Lord of the End Times.

Dragon: 1/3 to hit x 2/3 to wound x 2/3 armour x 1/3 ward x 6 attacks = 8/27
Archaon vs Dragon: 2/3 to hit x 1/3 to wound x 10 attacks = 20/9 (3-4 rounds to kill dragon)
Archaon vs himself: 1/6 to hit x 1/2 to wound x 1/3 ward x 10 attacks = 5/18

5/18 + 8/27 = 31/54 (3-4 rounds to finish off Archaon)

Anyone's match favouring Archaon by initiative, but the Prince is dead.

shredshredxx
31-03-2010, 02:00
i'd use massed zerglings and mutalisks.

making fun of spelling errors aside, few armies are better equipped to deal with archaon than VC. use basic hammer and anvil tactics.

raise a zombie unit to obscene sizes, find a way to get archaon's unit to charge them(this will more than likely involve baiting with dire wolves and/or fell bats), and have a unit of blood knights/grave guard/something killy with plenty of killy can-opener-esque characters in the mix. win. overrun.

AMWOOD co
31-03-2010, 08:16
Problem with doing so now is that Archaon can dependently hold his own against most units solo. Also, how large a unit of zombies are you talking? I killed off a unit of 25 zombies in 1 round with Archaon and 5 Khorne knights, having made separate charges, even with the zombies having full ranks. I don't think they outnumbered me after attacks, though.

Besides, Vampires likely work best trying to flank a unit with Archaon in it with a unit of Blood Knights as long as Archaon isn't at their corner. Kill the knights and hope for Archoaon to break at -7 or so Ld. Khorne have mercy if he's in combat, though.

Jerrus
31-03-2010, 12:32
Note, the Null Stone makes armour work as the mundande version of itself. I'm counting the Armour of Morkar as Chaos armour with a shield. Without it's magical properties, Arhcaon has a 2+ save (4+ chaos armour, +1 shield, +1 mounted). That would hardly be RAW though, nowhere is it stated that he has either chaos armour or a shield.

But Archaon would probably win most of the time anyway, as you forgot to factor in Dhorgar's attacks.

GuyLeCheval
31-03-2010, 12:42
I know you asked about VC but this is something i've pondered..

I haven't done the maths but for laughs how about a goblin warboss with Lucky's Dirk, Amulet of Protectyness, Tricksy Trinket and Spiteful Shield? Archaon would almost certainly still win but it might be funny. Archaon can't take wardsaves (tricksy trinket), the gobbo - thanks to Lucky's Dirk - (although he only has 4 attacks) gets an extra point of strength for each magic item Archaon has (a lot!) and counts as having the same armour and wardsave as Archaon - thanks to amulet of protectyness. In addition, each roll of 1 that Archaon makes to hit he suffers a s5 hit from the spiteful shield. Not a biggy but you never know... especially as he can't take wardsaves!

All for about 145pts too :-). For getting nearer equal points, could also put the Gobbo on a wolf with a huge ranked up unit of wolfriders for extra CR (and maybe a bsb with a warbanner).

This one. On a wolf without the riders. I've seen it kill him.

ROCKY
31-03-2010, 14:18
The Nullstone costs 100p, but it nullifies ALL magic items within 6'', i.e. no armour save, no ward save, can be wounded on 2+, doesn't cause terror, no break-test rerolls. Which can be quite annoying when coupled with a Star Dragon or a unit of Knights.

nice, but some of his abilities is not related to magical items, for instance, the marks and i think (not sure) his 1+armor save, because it negates all magical properties of the armor, but not the armor itself.

H33D
31-03-2010, 16:47
LOL. You're not worth my time or effort.

Lol. This guy. Has he even played a game before or did he find this site on google or something?

AMWOOD co
31-03-2010, 18:40
That would hardly be RAW though, nowhere is it stated that he has either chaos armour or a shield.

Ah, but one of the magical properties of the armour is its increased save. The armour simply mentioned and Archaon is clearly suited in full chaos armour and has a shield. An example of armour with an increased save would be the Armour of Caledor in the High Elf book; it's simply dragon armour with a 2+ save.


But Archaon would probably win most of the time anyway, as you forgot to factor in Dhorgar's attacks.

Point. I always forget the horse.

eyescrossed
01-04-2010, 00:39
LOL. You're not worth my time or effort.

Thanks for proving my point.

Jerrus
01-04-2010, 09:34
Ah, but one of the magical properties of the armour is its increased save. The armour simply mentioned and Archaon is clearly suited in full chaos armour and has a shield. An example of armour with an increased save would be the Armour of Caledor in the High Elf book; it's simply dragon armour with a 2+ save.

But the Dragon Armour of Caledor specifically states that it is Dragon Armour in it's rules, like many other magic armours state that they are light/heavy/fullplate/chaos armour. Where Archaon's armour is more like Armour of Meteoric Iron, Flayed Hauberk or the Armour of Darkness, which only state that it is an armour with a set save, i.e. does not have a mundane version and therefore does not give any save when nullfied/destroyed. And the shield on the model doesn't exist in the rules, unfortunatly.

If an errata comes that states that the Armour of morkar is a suit of chaos armour which incorperates a shield, then you could claim the saves when it has been nullified/destroyed IMO.

Tarian
01-04-2010, 17:08
Ah... reminds me of a siege where Teclis stripped Archaon of everything, except his helmet... good times.

Arkfatalis
10-04-2010, 15:04
Didn't Grimigor cut Archaon's shield in half?

mav1971
10-04-2010, 18:27
I beat him with my Chaos Lord of Khorne. I landed to killing blow hits and he only ward saved one.

VonUber
11-04-2010, 19:40
Cant vampire counts take the lore of death? take the blood line power to get all the spells from that lore, and take a wound off him each turn with no armour save... also will give your charicters a free wound.

GuyLeCheval
11-04-2010, 19:59
First shoot his mount away with warp-lighting, then use the 25+ spell no saves. If he isn't killed after that ;)

Havock
11-04-2010, 20:03
Ah... reminds me of a siege where Teclis stripped Archaon of everything, except his helmet... good times.

Naked Lord of End Times on the walls 'counts as' casket of souls.

Fall from grace
11-04-2010, 23:23
First shoot his mount away with warp-lighting, then use the 25+ spell no saves. If he isn't killed after that ;)

This would work with his old rules, but as his mount is no longer a monstrous creature it cannot be targetted.

KalEf
12-04-2010, 05:05
Naked Lord of End Times on the walls 'counts as' casket of souls.

Lol I wonder how you should determine the casting value :o

Havock
12-04-2010, 13:16
Lol I wonder how you should determine the casting value :o

The difference in manhood.
Elves die instantly, Dwarves fall over laughing.