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benlucas
25-03-2010, 12:35
This army is designed to be used in a doubles tournament with my friend who is using Lizardmen. He will be taking an Engine of the Gods and plenty of Skinks.

Mage
Seerstaff

10x Archers
Musician
Light Armour

5x Ellyrian Reavers
Bows (this means they have spears!!!)
Musician

5x Ellyrian Reavers
Bows (as above..)
Musician

Tiranoc Chariot

Tiranoc Chariot

Repeater Bolt Thrower

--749pts.

Designed to be a highly manouverable shooting army -- Furthermore, after some thought, I've kitted the mage out to be quite versatile and effective. Hopefully, I've achieved this. What do you lot think?

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 13:42
I like it! Seems to have fit the role! Crazy how HE have too few core choices and so pretty much just try to take the mandatory archer or spearman. I just wish they had a few more choices available to them.

But I do like the list you have! Remember, combined charge with chariots or charge them against something that has been wittled down a bit from your shooting!!!

Don't forget, fast cav have a 360 degree arc for shooting!!!

benlucas
25-03-2010, 13:49
wow! friend request coming right your way mate!

thanks for the kind words, especially as i'm a complete n00b to high elves.

do you like the setup for the mage or would it be better having a noble?

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 13:58
Look forward to receiving, or rather I just did ;)

Well I use to play High Elves before the newest army book. I remember Silver Helm Core choices. But anyway, back to the topic.

It all comes down to what you want to do. I would probably remove the champions in your Reavers to save points, at 750 I think it would be fine to do that. You can use the points saved to purchase a few more magic items. I believe there is a ring that allows you to cast Fury of Khaine or something isn't there? Bound spell? I can't quite recall. But throwing an item out that casts a spell at a bound level will allow you to make someone burn up a dispel dice or two. It gives you a better chance to cast spells.

It seems with your friend taking lizard skinks you two will have a hell of a shooting phase! What characters is he taking?

benlucas
25-03-2010, 14:00
i don't think he's taking a character mate, rather he is concentrating on his Engine of the Gods and a Skink Priest..

Kind of magic/shooty heavy. I quite like it because I can easily manouvere round most armies to aviod combat. Which is good.

Ben.

PS I will look into that ring thing..two minutes pls..

PSS I have edited the original list and I'm 11 pts short. However, it still looks quite neat - but is there anything you could suggest?

Armond
25-03-2010, 14:12
Well I meant hero, not special character or anything like it.

So you both going in with magic users will definitely give your opponent some type of nastiness to worry about. The thing is, will he be going in with a lvl 2 or with a scroll caddy?

I do like the movement of your army, with the fast cav and all. I think the best bet is to use the fast cav in conjunction with either a chariot or the 2nd unit of reavers to set up charges. The thing is, you need the chariot to break anything with RnF. Problem is, chariots are random, rolling 1d6 for impact hits, and not having scythed wheels makes HE chariots not even close to reliable. But if you throw 2 of them at one time into the same unit, it can make for a pretty decent chance of breaking a unit.

A standard RnF unit with full ranks will have a +5 starting CR. With that starting at their advantage, you would need to do at least 6 wounds to even have a chance to break a unit. NOT EASY.

If you can whittle down a few of their troops, reduce their ranks to only a +1 bonus, you will make them start with a +3. Then it will be down to whatever charging units you have to cause 4+ wounds. Much more manageable.

To give yourself an even greater chance, IF you can afford to someone, I would TRY to put spears on your fast cav, that way they can lend some S4 into a flank or something. A flank charge would give you a +1 for flanks, and if you are US5 or higher you can negate their rank bonuses. MUCH needed. You have no fully ranked units... So you have to do the following:

1. Combine charges
2. Weaken with focused firepower
3. Try hard for flanks
4. Multiple shots w/bolt thrower on lower toughness units/single shot on higher toughness. But if an opponent has RnF troops, consider the single bolt, it can mow thru a few ranks and maintains a decent Strength.

Make sure your teammate understands this, coordinate. Try to weaken the same units together. At least try to cause them to take panic tests in the opponent's units, THEN move on to the next unit to shoot at.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 14:43
thanks very much for your help, i'll think upon it. it has been very helpful. by the way, excuse my ignorance, but what is RnF?

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 14:46
Thing is though, was the Ring still in the book?

With the 11 points you have left you could probably afford 10 points of magic items for your wizard, or you can get a musician for your archers.

But, how much are spears for the Reavers?

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 14:59
Just my 2 cents but i would drop the wand and the scroll on the mage and pick up the Seerstaff, allows you to pick the 2 spells you need, an cause you are HE you can pick any lore.
In my mind 2 prefect spells is far better then leaving it up to chance to get the ones you want. With that in mind I would go high magic, and curse arrow of attraction, gotta love re-rolling to hit with all of your's and the skinks shots vs a target, and then there is always drain magic for the defensive option.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:00
to have both spears and bows is +2 per reaver. i'm going for a defensive mage and so opted for a scroll rather than the ring.

do you prefer the changes?

PS thanks Phoenix Prince, that looks pretty nice.

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 15:05
but what is RnF?

Rank and File, large blocks of infantry usually with lots of SCR (static combat resolution, like ranks, strength, and a standard)

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 15:07
Look forward to receiving, or rather I just did ;)
I believe there is a ring that allows you to cast Fury of Khaine or something isn't there? Bound spell? I can't quite recall. But throwing an item out that casts a spell at a bound level will allow you to make someone burn up a dispel dice or two. It gives you a better chance to cast spells.


That would be the Ring of Fury

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:09
thanks for verifying my ignorance, my bad :D

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 15:15
Just my 2 cents but i would drop the wand and the scroll on the mage and pick up the Seerstaff, allows you to pick the 2 spells you need, an cause you are HE you can pick any lore.
In my mind 2 prefect spells is far better then leaving it up to chance to get the ones you want. With that in mind I would go high magic, and curse arrow of attraction, gotta love re-rolling to hit with all of your's and the skinks shots vs a target, and then there is always drain magic for the defensive option.


I didn't realize that they still had that(the staff I mean)!!! That is actually an awesome piece of advice. Why? Curse of Arrow Attraction is beautiful with the type of army you are running.

But I think the Ring of Fury is nice as well. Thanks for reminding me about it Phoenix Prince, I forgot what it was called.

But definitely think you have a decent change there. Silverwand grants you another spell?? I can't recall.

In any respect, I think you can do well, but I do agree that if you can guarantee Curse of Arrow Attraction, it would only help you!!!

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 15:18
For a defensive mage it is a pretty good setup. From my exprience when I roll a defensive mage, the silver wand is not too much of a help on a "hero" class mage as he usually does not have the dice to properly take advantage of the extra spell (not really sure what the engine of the gods does, if it generates pool dice then disregard this)
On a defensive mage I tend to use a scroll and the jewel of the dusk (only need to free up 5 points over what the silver wand is), as it would give the mage an extra power dice to try and cast a spell. My mages just tend to be drain magic caddies, with the occasional buff spell.

But as I said previous I almost never leave home without the seerstaff

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 15:25
thanks for verifying my ignorance, my bad :D

Ben.

No worries the abbreviations mess me up had to google SCR to make sure i got it right :)


But I think the Ring of Fury is nice as well. Thanks for reminding me about it Phoenix Prince, I forgot what it was called

No prob it is a fun item to throw out, where I play everyone expects me to take it and saves up dice to stop it. It could be very devastating in a 1500pt pairs game.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:31
well that sounds incredibly reassuring - however, one of the nasties i had planned was just to drop lore of metal on the heads of bretonnian/empire/dwarf players and just make a mess for them. i love high magic - though to be honest, i only really like 2-3 spells it has to offer.

Armond
25-03-2010, 15:32
Thus the staff would be great! That way you could pick the 2-3 spells you like!

ColShaw
25-03-2010, 15:34
One question. I had thought the Enchanted Shield counted as magic armor, and thus could not be taken on a wizard.

If you can take Spears for the Reavers, as has been noted above, I'd do it. S4 on the charge is the only way they're ever going to be able to do any damage.

You're crazy-maneuverable with this list, but watch out for enemy shooting. Even a single volley of arrows can make short work of a unit of Reavers, and Asuryan help you if the enemy are firing blackpowder weapons or crossbows at you.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:40
they undoubtedly will be i fear, but i think with some clever manouvering i should be able to threaten them from all angles. don't forget, like aforementioned though, i can position myself to their flanks or rear and still fire! surely dwarf and empire gunners can't shoot sideways?

@ Armond: Exactly my friend, this should be a very..interesting army at the very least - i really appreciate your help.

Thanks to everyone else too, especially Phoenix Prince. Please keep commenting and we can try to make this list even better :D

Also, i was unaware about any magic armour rules. Could someone verify this?

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 15:41
That is one of the weaknesses of a list like this, susceptible to shooting.

Spears would be nice, on at least one unit of the Reavers.

Drop the E. Shield, you can't use it on a wizard anyway. Use the points to boost up one unit of Reavers by giving them Spears. That extra +1 S will help to do some damage. It could mean the difference between winning and losing a combat.

How much is a Seerstaff in points anyway?

Also, if you really wanted to, you can move towards an even more shooty list, by utilizing a noble with reaver bow. BUT, I do like the direction of your army. Definitely would be great to hear that you got CoAA and got some massive and crazy damage in your shooting phase!

Note, this has got to be one of the army list threads with the most replies I have seen in sometime! ;)

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:43
They should already have spears...there I've made it clearer.

How would I go about defeating shooty armies, shoot 'em up first?

Ben.

Edit: I thought I'd slip something sneaky and unexpected - alas, the Talisman of Loec! What happens if the mage is in combat I hear you cry? Have no fear, Loec is here!

Only downside that he'll lose a wound, for definite, but I can't think of anything to spend 10 points on?

Edit x2 : @Armond: I know mate, I'm quite pleased, we're doing quite well with it lol. Keep it up!

Someone on Ulthuan.net mentioned a noble on steed with reaver bow, but tbh i don't see how that would work unless i kicked out a unit of reavers? but then i wouldn't have anywhere near as many units and it probably still wouldn't add up..

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 15:55
Focus, cause some panic. Make sure to stay some distance away, try to deploy 30" away. Most people use handgunners and armies with short bows. At least you would be able to minimize the shooting, if they are fielding those. You have a 30" range, so be aware of that. Also, as said before panic can cause problems for missile troops. Typically, missile troops have a slightly lower leadership than the other troops. So causing panic will definitely be nice.

Throw enough shooting at a single unit to cause 25% casualties, then move onto the next unit and do the same if possible. If you focus on missile troops you may delay being shot down, BUT you then leave the RnF troops which are a huge threat to you. Lower the threat. I mean tactics will change based on what you face, so anything someone tells you may not work because it will base don specifics in specific armies.

What does the environment that you play in look like? Demographics for armies?

benlucas
25-03-2010, 15:57
well it's for a doubles tournament..i could be facing anything?

i think i'd probably setup so that the missile troops have the most trouble attacking me..handguns shouldn't be a problem..it's just crossbows - but i guess in a 750 tourney there won't be many units bigger than 10 right?

Ben.

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 16:03
just remember that the CoAA only has a range of 24" so depending on how everyone deploys you may have to target RnF units with it or move the mage up all depends.

Armond
25-03-2010, 16:07
well it's for a doubles tournament..i could be facing anything?

i think i'd probably setup so that the missile troops have the most trouble attacking me..handguns shouldn't be a problem..it's just crossbows - but i guess in a 750 tourney there won't be many units bigger than 10 right?

Ben.

Most people don't field missile troops larger than 10. It would just be too unwieldy, takes up too much space and they cannot wheel easily.

Yah, crossbows are a problem, with them being S4 it will also be a prob for T3 Elves.

Just try to use terrain and keep out of LOS/Range of enemy missile troops if you can.

Armond
25-03-2010, 16:09
just remember that the CoAA only has a range of 24" so depending on how everyone deploys you may have to target RnF units with it or move the mage up all depends.

Good point, the wizard can easily move up I am sure, just stay hidden/use terrain.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 16:12
thanks very much lads - your help is enormously...helpful! do you guys approve of the Talisman of Loec?

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 16:20
I can't recall what that does. Remind me? I don't mind helping someone out, I do better at smaller lists right now, mostly because that is where I am playing at right now. I am working on 3 armies at once! Gobbos, Empire, and Wood Elves. So I am comfortable at this point level!

I wish I could get this much help with my WE list!!! LOL!

benlucas
25-03-2010, 16:24
lmao - well the talisman of loec - word for word:

"One use only. This item is used at the start of any close combat phase. The bearer may re-roll any rolls to hit and wound until the end of the phase. Any model wounded by his attacks must re-roll any successful save of any kind. At the end of the phase the bearer suffers one wound with no saves of any kind allowed."

Armond
25-03-2010, 16:27
Not worth it, also, you may not want to put the exact wording. I would go to paraphrasing. Don't take the item, you aren't using a combat monster!

Phoenix Prince
25-03-2010, 16:27
the talisman of loec is not well suited for a one attack mage, although it could be fun the whip it out chances are what ever is in base to base contact beyond the one model will get you mage with his one wound. The points could be used elsewhere but not really sure where (the gem of courage is fun if your mage sits in a combat unit, ToP is only 6+ ward, light armour on the archers makes them abit harder, all would cost the 10pts) not really sure what to do with the points as you cannot afford more troops with it

Armond
25-03-2010, 16:34
Mage
Seerstaff
Talisman of Loec
*Drop the Talisman, not worth it on a 1 attack character!

10x Archers
Musician
*well done!

5x Ellyrian Reavers
Bows (this means they have spears!!!)
Musician
*nice!

5x Ellyrian Reavers
Bows (as above..)
Musician
*nice!

Tiranoc Chariot
*love em!

Tiranoc Chariot
*oh yah!

Repeater Bolt Thrower
*beautiful!

--749pts.

If you can find something that is of equal points, and would be more useful to a mage, take it. If not, put the points into maybe a champ for a Reaver unit or something.

benlucas
25-03-2010, 17:04
i like the idea of armour on the archers - that would give them..what a 6+?

plus it's just 10pts well spent.

thanks for the quoting Armond - legend!!

thanks for your help lads. at this rate i should be getting somewhere!

Ben.

PS If you guys ever need any help with Vampires or Brets I'd be happy to help as they're kind of my speciality.

Armond
25-03-2010, 17:14
Yah, it is difficult to find a place to spend 10 points at this stage of your list, mostly because it has probably been min/maxed as best as it can be right now.

I have to say, I think you will do fine. You may want to use your teammates units as a screen in some cases. Especially the EOTG. Remember to communicate.

When is the doubles tourney? You may want to run a handful of games together with your teammate and see how you two interact, and maybe make a few more tweaks to compliment eachother!

benlucas
25-03-2010, 17:17
thats the weird thing - we were too young to enter this year's GT Doubles, so we're kind of like...well a year in advance?

he has been thinking of swapping and going to bretonnians...which combines manouverability and hard-hitting..

i don't know..yet i'll keep you guys updated.. watch this space!

anyways, now i'm off to lacrosse - later :D

Ben.

Armond
25-03-2010, 17:23
That could prove to be a nasty combo there. But Lizzies are nice too. Either way, practice, practice, practice! The more you run doubles together, the better you two will be at working with eachother!

Glad we could all help!

benlucas
25-03-2010, 19:36
cheers guys! :D

Ben.