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LanceSaba
28-03-2010, 20:30
Heroes:

Death Hag (general)-
Cauldron of Blood
Rune of Khaine
Manbane
Points: 250

Death Hag-
Cauldron of Blood
Rune of Khain
Manbane
Points: 250

Master (BSB)-
Halberd
Armour of Darkness
Ring of Hotek
Points: 159

Assassin-
Additional Hand Weapon
Rune of Khaine
Manbane
Points: 175

Core:

25 Warriors-
Shields
Full Command
Battle Standard
Points: 215

10 Repeater Crossbowmen=
Shields
Points: 110

10 Repeater Crossbowmen-
Shields
Points: 110

5 Dark Riders-
Musician
Points: 92

5 Dark Riders-
Musician
Points: 92

5 Harpies
Points: 55

5 Harpies
Points: 55

Special:

8 Shades
Points: 128

14 Witch Elves-
Full Command
Rune of Khaine
Points: 190

14 Witch Elves-
Full Command
Rune of Khaine
Points: 190

Rare:

War Hydra
Points: 175

Total: 2,246

I admit 2 cauldrons are a bit of a point sink but i can always keep my units covered that way. the master goes with the Warriors and possibly the assassin too. The Shade go on the weaker side and the Hydra on the stronger side. I feel that with Rune of Khaine and Witchbrew the Cauldron of Blood should be protected enough from the usual war machine hunters. I obviously need to make good use of wood here to keep my Hydra and Shades safe and use the Harpies as screens for my Witch Elves. The Dark Rides do their thing and help with a flank charge when needed.

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 06:10
no comments on this list? shameful bump

pyroman08
30-03-2010, 06:18
Executioners are terrible.

There's your comment, heed it well.

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 07:29
so like i stated in the first post it would be better to switch them out for some witch elves?

TheDarkDaff
30-03-2010, 07:38
At least one unit should be swapped to Witch Elves. Also you can't give a unit 2 blessings in the same turn. The Warriors need the Assassin and Master to be combat effective but the Assassin is probably a better threat in one of the Shade units.

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 09:10
ok edited the list

The SkaerKrow
30-03-2010, 15:22
I'd drop the Witchbrew from both Cauldrons of Blood. Invest the points in a War Banner for your Warriors (or a unit of Witch Elves), and a Banner of Murder for a unit of Witch Elves. Otherwise, it's a good list. Witch Elves with the Killing Blow blessing usually outperform Executioners, so I have to say that I agree with their omission from the list (though they would contribute to your theme).

Bladelord
30-03-2010, 15:29
Hey where are the Executioners, this was a Har Ganeth themed list right???

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 15:58
well it was until everyone just keeps saying they suck and though it wasn't much different than what you see just two units of five shades, no shields on the bowmen, and 2 units of 14 executioners with musician and standard.

So i am just going to switch land masses unfortunately for some game play at least it isn't dual hydra, black guard/shade death star.

The SkaerKrow
30-03-2010, 15:59
Har Ganeth is the City of Khaine. Witch Elves are the Brides of Khaine. You're still in theme by taking two units of Witch Elves.

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 16:49
That's good and that's what i thought to begin with. but to respond to an earlier post if I drop the witch brew off the cauldrons where should i spend the 54 points and its good to cheapen the heroes where necessary. By the way the warrior unit has the war banner already.

For anyone that cares the fluff for the list is, since Malekith is forging a new attack on the weak goody two shoes elves he requires greater power. it is learned from Ghrond of the chaos god Khorne envisioning it as the emissary of Khaine he summons his mother and Crone Hellebrone and devises a plan to summon a Bloodthirster, which as we know requires a lot of blood. With the plan set to gather blood he requisitions a Lord to provide a body guard for the witch elves he is sending to gather the blood of every race enough to fill a specially crafted cauldron. that will remain in the city awaiting their return.
The requisitioned army to defend them comes from a medium sized fortification on the big river that forks between Hotek's Column and Clar Karond. the dude is paranoid as hell though (I have been working on his story for a while now) and provides a little extra in the form of shades and assassins. Ring of Hotek is a copy ( because they sell like hot cakes) and he bought a couple of hydras from Clar Karond. woot

Game wise each unit of Witch Elves must fill their Cauldron of Blood too the top, (difficult task if you ask me) and when i head to 3000 points I think I will add Hellebrone. I don't like to use lords, for point and fluff reasons, under 3K and I don't really like named characters but I think it would easily apply to this idea.

Dooks Dizzo
30-03-2010, 21:38
Yikes.

Executioners are NOT terrible. They are simply not optimal all the time, but a good general can get a hell of a use out of S6 attacks with Hatred.

Drop the Witches brew off the Cauldrons ASAP. Khainite within 12" of the cauldron are stubborn right? Cauldron causes terror right? There should never be a time when you're not rolling a stubborn Ld9 for break checks. You much more need to invest in things that will keep the Daeth Hag alive as opposed to keeping her from breaking.

Rune of Khaine + Manbane will give opponents a nasty suprise on challenges.

The Master seems way out of place to me. A BSB is going to be great for your army yes, and the Ring needs to find itself in there somehow but I just don't like this guy for your army.

You need to figure out some sort of 'anvil' for the army. Let the enemy hit it and get stuck, then manuever small units of exec's into the flanks for some hard hitting support. Given an extra attack from the CoB the exec's can be quite nasty.

Bait and flee with dark riders and harpies to get people into position and then hit them with exec's.

Your army is going to be about being subtle and manuevering properly.

The repeater cross bows feel like filler, drop them to get points back. Shadowblade might do some wonderful things for this army. Popping out and holding a unit in place to set up a charge or even a chain charge is a very good thing.

You're going to need very big blocks of Witches to get them where they are going but with Frenzy you're not worried about panic checks or anything.

Make one of the Cauldrons your BSB and consider something crazy like the banner of Nagarythe (which you can rename to the banner of get your ass whooped by Khaine or something), giving you combat res for everyone around.

Consider: 20 man unit of executioners, full command, warbanner or armor piercing banner + assassin. Let them get charged. Use the unit champ to suck up challenges and the assassin with extra hand weapon + rune of khaine and manbane to wipe out the front rank. Suddenly your opponent realizes that 4 of your S6 great weapons are actually going to attack!

People have been coddled by ASF great weapons for too long! There are other ways to play dangit.

LanceSaba
30-03-2010, 22:16
well the switch of witchbrew for manbane is easy enough and the more that I think about it the more I like the witch elves over the executioner and fluff wise they are about the same. like I said in my last post I want to keep the archers, dark rides, and a unit of warriors for fluff and to fill out core requirements without doing min max of 3 small units of dark riders. I don't mind changing the shades out though or even the hydra to put more bodies in the witch elves and their harpies screen or even add another unit cause i love the little buggers.

quick calculations show that if i drop the shields of the Xbowmen and the shades i can get add 7 more guys to each witch elf unit. bringing my points down to 2,238

over all though i kinda like the way my list looks now unless you can think of a really good reason why it's bad

also on rules can the cauldron move? if so then i don't mind making it the bsb

Dooks Dizzo
31-03-2010, 00:59
Cauldron may move 5" per turn. No march, no charge.

Consider at least one unit of exec's for fluff purposes.

LanceSaba
01-04-2010, 01:44
i don't really feel that having executioners is beneficial at all because their armor is easily penetrated by any elf killing weapon (str 5) so are no more survivable than the witch elves . also we are looking at 22-25 attacks a turn which mean about 4 killing blows a turn that negate all armor meaning that there is no need to have str 6 and as much fun as it is to have tullaris a 100 points is a lot to spend on one wound

but i was thinking to keep the same units but switch the bsb to the other cauldron that way its splits the important targets three ways. the most important (general and bsb) sit behind the main line and the ring is well protected with a lordling and assassin. The archers help with flanking war machine hunters and the cauldrons should be able to hold off the random flyers.
my only problem is that my units will be fairly close together and could be a fairly easy target for rock throwers (big fear being empire rockets) but most people don't take them because they are bad at aiming them.

so is it tactically sound now? If not what do you suggest

Bladelord
01-04-2010, 18:34
Still can't see a unit of Executioners, I really dislike your list cause you can't call it a themed ''Har Ganeth'' list...

The SkaerKrow
01-04-2010, 18:52
Still can't see a unit of Executioners, I really dislike your list cause you can't call it a themed ''Har Ganeth'' list...We've already covered that. He has Witch Elves, who come from Har Ganeth. Be happy that he doesn't have Black Guard.

Executioners will add nothing positive to this army, and won't reinforce his theme (as he'll likely lose Witch Elves to add Executioners).

I didn't see the War Banner on your Warrior units. If nothing else, you could use the points that you save to bulk out the numbers of your Witch Elf units.

Dark14
01-04-2010, 19:05
i would use 2 units of witches one executioners and take crone so witches are core. If you hate exe's use the models but rules for black guard.

Bladelord
01-04-2010, 20:47
VS knights:
Cauldron on Witch Elves: 1 more atk & poison
Cauldron on Executioners: 3 more str & heavy armour (yes the armour will save some of your executioners after the charge)

it's 1/6 that you get a killing blow & you also have 1/6 chance of getting that killing blowable hit wound automaticly instead, Executioners don't have poison so they ignore that but like I just said, only 1/6 of your atks will killing blow while the rest of your atks will go for a 4+/5+ to wound & a 2+ save with your witch elves while the Executioners will have a 2+ to wound and a -3 modifier giving your opponent a 4- or 5+ which he's most unlikely to fail.

I don't see the point in not using Executioners for ''cheese'' reasons.