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Weavetoucher
30-03-2010, 11:05
Apologies if this thread been done before I did a search and couldn't find one. When Space Hulk was re-released there was speculation on here as to what the next "big box deluxe" could be some of the ideas made no sense to me like epic/ man o war as the powers that be seemed to want these BBDs to be one offs with no expansions, there would be too many races for ships to fit in the box or armies etc.. warhammer quest is a possibility as you could do a lot of the character packs all in the starter box.... then a thought hit me... Dark Future... it's rules have been released on the website .. was this an appetiser to get our collective juices drooling before they bring out a lovely version with fancy roadpieces, cool cars etc... another strange thought is to do with rights and licensing ... space hulk was created by richard halliwell .. and so was dark future.. maybe he retained some rights to the games that he has now signed over and so GW can do something with them. Any thoughts you guys?

EmperorNorton
30-03-2010, 11:30
Any thoughts you guys?
You should use proper punctuation and a paragraph once in a while.

RobC
30-03-2010, 12:22
The principal reason why Dark Future has never been reissued is that it never actually sold very well. I'd be very surprised to see the property revived in any form, to be honest.

As for ownership: highly unlikely that anyone other than GW ever owned the rights to the game. AFAIK Richard Halliwell came up with the original game concept, but the vast bulk of the work was done by others, not least Marc Gascoigne who created the setting, originally for an RPG.

eriochrome
30-03-2010, 12:49
I am sure the GW is looking at their options since the Space Hulk release was successful but I am sure they will wait a couple of years before they do it again. Space Hulk, I think had a special place as it was very well know game that was long out of print. Also since all they did was minor rules tweaks and clean up not that much play testing was required and mainly resources were spent on making a cool looking set.

Dark Future rules would probably need major work to get down to a really managable level. Also I just do not think you could get the wow factor up with the scale of the cars. I cannot say how popular it was in general but it was certainly no space hulk.

Jedi152
30-03-2010, 12:51
I think it's fair to assume that a Warhammer Quest remake would sell well, and they know that.

It's just whether they can justify the cost of cardboard manufacturing, and they'd have to scale down the amount of models in the box.

tu33y
30-03-2010, 12:56
is cardboard printing that expensive? i suppose the more you do the cheaper it gets but im surprised...

Lewis
30-03-2010, 13:07
Dark Future rules would probably need major work to get down to a really managable level..

So true it hurts. I started collecting DF stuff a few years ago, having had the original games and White Line Fever lying around from when I was a kid. I have an affection for the 15mm scale and loved the novels. When I tried to play the game however it became apparent that the game can best be compared to an exercise in book keeping in which sudden and random death lurks at everyturn. There is nothing like repeatedly writing down what speed you're driving at before failing a single dice roll and exploding.

Suffice to say that to bring it up to even 40K levels of playability would require an awful lot of work.

Jedi152
30-03-2010, 13:12
is cardboard printing that expensive? i suppose the more you do the cheaper it gets but im surprised...

It was originally touted as the reason GW stopped doing cards for 40k and fantasy and stopped 'board' games on the whole - they have to outsource card to another company which isn't cheap.

eriochrome
30-03-2010, 13:36
So true it hurts. I started collecting DF stuff a few years ago, having had the original games and White Line Fever lying around from when I was a kid. I have an affection for the 15mm scale and loved the novels. When I tried to play the game however it became apparent that the game can best be compared to an exercise in book keeping in which sudden and random death lurks at everyturn. There is nothing like repeatedly writing down what speed you're driving at before failing a single dice roll and exploding.

Suffice to say that to bring it up to even 40K levels of playability would require an awful lot of work.

I also recently looked at the game again after about 20 years in storage and I was like these seem to go for ever. I was trying to see if it would be worthwhile to take to a board game day and I just said no. The basic rules(a few page pamplet) are far too boring but the full normal rulebook rules are long.

Another reason why Dark Future is not space hulk is space hulk while ripped off of Aliens involves what have become some iconic units in the 40K game. Dark Future does not have this as a rip off of Mad Max without the larger link to what is now a major game.

AndrewGPaul
30-03-2010, 13:43
I remember talking to Jervis about Dark Future, about 10-15 years ago (he was visiting our GW games club). The main thing he hadn't liked about the game was the layout of the roadways; every scenario was basically a game of chicken, or a stern chase. Without intersection pieces (which I remember thining about, but I could never think of a way of doing it without making the markings too complicated), you couldn't really change that. I remember seeing a small stand at Games Day 1995 (or 1996) that hinted at a new version, but it appears that morphed into Gorkamorka pretty early in the design process.

Warhammer Quest would be more likely, especially since they can tie it into their current settings. On the other hand, it all depends on how successful Space Hulk really was. Unless there's specific mention of it in the next annual report, I doubt we'll find out. I realise it was more of a prestige project rather than purely for maximum profit (and possibly a teaser for the new look of the Blood Angels), but if it was marginal, or a loss, I doubt we'll see another one.

Also, how popular is, or was, Warhammer Quest? Space Hulk seems to be pretty well-known outside the GW gamer community (probably because it came out before GW took so many steps to dissociate themselves from the hobby at large), but did Warhammer Quest have that same 'crossover' appeal?

Another possible candidate for a splash release would be a new version of Man O' War. They've already got Battlefleet Gothic and Trafalgar as a basis for the rules, and I'm sure they could come up with some nice new ship models. The only problem would be deciding which fleets to include; High Elves are an obvious choice, as the premier naval power, either of the human fleets would be decent opponents and the dwarves offer a very different fleet to contrast the Elven ships. There's no way you could put in every fleet, though, and too many people would take the omission of their favourite as some sort of deliberate insult.

TheBigBadWolf
30-03-2010, 14:09
Gorkamorka probably has the best chance to make it as Deluxe one off box release.

All they need to do is an updated rulebook, bung in a couple of ork boy sprues and 2 trukks and some limited cardboard stock, ala the original box.

It could be done even cheaper than SH due to the limited amount of carboard pieces required, the new ork models would be fine for inclusion, maybe even a release of the rule book on its own in limited numbers.

blackcherry
30-03-2010, 14:16
The Dark Future game was pap. It was pap back then and under the harsh glare or modern day viewing it comes off looking worse. If you really wanted to ressurect it, it would be better to outsource it to professional RPG designers.

From the background in the rules manuals and how it was expanded upon in the 6 or so novels set in the universe, it would be quite a fun, pulpy world to play in. A mashup between mad max, cyberpunk and a multitude of pop culture referances sounds like a winner to me.

eriochrome
30-03-2010, 14:23
pap?

I am not familar with this expression. Is it a way of writting rap with a c in front?

blackcherry
30-03-2010, 16:48
Just saying its a bit rubbish haha. Its an english expression so perhaps it hasn't travelled far outside of our fair isles.

BigRob
30-03-2010, 17:02
WHQ is the one people seem to be hoping for, Gorkamorka is also a possibility although it is/was available for free at the GW website so they might decide they won't make alot of cash from that one.

As for Man'O'War, we can only dream, especially as that would require a new range, not just a couple of new sprues.

Pap means something a bit rubbish, similar to saying pants, tosh, crud or anything similar. The word that sounds like it beginning with C is used to describe something that is alot more rubbish.

selfconstrukt
30-03-2010, 17:05
I think it's fair to assume that a Warhammer Quest remake would sell well, and they know that.

It's just whether they can justify the cost of cardboard manufacturing, and they'd have to scale down the amount of models in the box.

They'd actually be able to put more models in with the game, now that plastics are all done in-house. When WQ first came out GW did not make plastics in-house so they were more expensive.

Now, making WQ would be pretty inexpensive, especially if they just kept the old models instead of designing new ones.

What would be better, IMHO, is if GW made new plastic models for all of the old metal ones (from the character add-ons) and put them in with the main game instead of selling them separately.

Sleazy
30-03-2010, 17:34
The reason Dark Future was scrapped was that it doesnt fit into any of GWs Warhammer universes. Nowadays GW are even more focussed towards their core line. if something isnt set in the Warhammer World, the 41 millennia or Middle Earth, forget it.

Wolf Scout Ewan
30-03-2010, 17:40
I would definately buy a Warhammer Quest if it was released... I'm still trying to get my hands on another Advanced Heroquest box!

Art Is Resistance
30-03-2010, 19:40
The next (if there is a next) will definitely NOT be Dark Future.

That's not to say we won't see it again - maybe with the word 'flight' on the box..... ;-)

Lewis
30-03-2010, 21:47
Speaking of Fantasy Flight, if you want WQ so badly, buy Descent.

Personally I don't see them repeating the Space Hulk model because no other game could be seen as complete with just the models in the box. The only thing that might come close is Blood Bowl.

SilentCivilian
30-03-2010, 22:00
If we ever see the much rumoured Fantasy division of Forge World i think we would have a much better chance of seeing Man o War back. Would make alot of sense for them to release it rather than try squeeze it all into one box.

The Gorkamorka rules are there for free and if anything encourage the sales of more Ork vehicle kits etc so people can play this admittedly very fun game.

WHQ makes the most sense as a single boxed game. They could even include the rules for the other heros and just give examples of single models you could use to represent them, stick to the original 4 core heros as they have that classic feel. Lifted staright from Hero Quest and again in Advanced Hero Quest.

Who knows maybe they will redo a boxed version of Bloodbowl. :p

AndrewGPaul
31-03-2010, 08:01
Personally I don't see them repeating the Space Hulk model because no other game could be seen as complete with just the models in the box. The only thing that might come close is Blood Bowl.

Now that you mention it, that's probably an important point. Like I mentioned above, Man O' War had fleets for every army in Warhammer. There's no way a single boxed game can include them all. They could release it as, say, High Elves vs Empire and be done with it. The problem is, there's too many people who wouldn't pick it up because they don't play Empire or High Elves in Warhammer, and a vocal minority of people who would take the lack of their favourite race as a personal insult and moan at length about it on the internet. :)

Warhammer Quest could work with some tweaks; you could probably do away with some of the card decks if need be, or make them half-sized, make the boards jigsaw-edged instead of those plastic door frames and things like that.

Space Hulk included 36 large-ish miniatures - Warhammer Quest could include the same - 8 heroes and 24 baddies.

I think, though, that Warhammer Quest doesn't have the same mythic appeal to members of the design studio that Space Hulk does (one of the authors of the latest edition started off writing fan-articles for the Journal, for instance), so they simply might not want to bother.

Jedi152
31-03-2010, 08:38
I think that's the crux of the matter. Space Hulk was out for years. Most of the designers probably played it at the start of their gaming careers and so have love for it.

Warhammer Quest is newer and probably has less followers.

Lewis
31-03-2010, 12:15
It is widely regarded as a very good board game beyond the GW community. Go to Boardgamegeek (at least before the file purge) and mention Space Hulk and you'll get a lot of approving nods. Mention WQ and you'll get blank faces before they show you a copy of descent.

spetswalshe
31-03-2010, 18:00
Warhammer Quest does have the problem of being a less 'complete' game than Space Hulk. With SH, you need two people and one box. For WHQ, you're likely to need several people; you'll also probably want new board sections after a while, new rules, new adventures, that kind of thing - plus there's the problem of putting 2d6 models of every enemy. WHQ was much more a roleplaying game with a board element, if I remember correctly - whereas SH is just a straight-up board game.

Unless - and here's what I'm hoping - they make it a single-race game, similar in style to Space Hulk. As an example, call it 'Sewer Rats', set it in Marienburg/Tilea, and have six motley lads (two with swords, two with spears, two with crossbows) controlled by player A fighting to keep the sewers free of the verminous hordes of Skaven (player B) - achieving missions on the way, from 'clear the nest!' to 'board up the grilles!' to 'make it out in one piece!'.

gunmonkey
31-03-2010, 21:43
Warhammer Quest does have the problem of being a less 'complete' game than Space Hulk. With SH, you need two people and one box. For WHQ, you're likely to need several people; you'll also probably want new board sections after a while, new rules, new adventures, that kind of thing - plus there's the problem of putting 2d6 models of every enemy. WHQ was much more a roleplaying game with a board element, if I remember correctly - whereas SH is just a straight-up board game.

Unless - and here's what I'm hoping - they make it a single-race game, similar in style to Space Hulk. As an example, call it 'Sewer Rats', set it in Marienburg/Tilea, and have six motley lads (two with swords, two with spears, two with crossbows) controlled by player A fighting to keep the sewers free of the verminous hordes of Skaven (player B) - achieving missions on the way, from 'clear the nest!' to 'board up the grilles!' to 'make it out in one piece!'.

Yeah, to try cram all the expansions, extra player characters and extra room tiles/event cards would make a reprint too large, insanely complex for a new player and bloody expensive. If GW were to revisit WHQ it would be better top take the core idea (roleplaying a team of adventurers ransacking dungeons for loot) and build a new game based on that. Have the main rules laid out for some gasic adventures, with only a few select heroes but then have an expanded section with rules for new monsters/characters not in the box, like WHQ did originally.

As for your scenario, that could be a chain of pre written quests, starting with killing giant rats but discovering a network of Skaven tunels and a series of encounters with a Grey Seer as you fight and defeat his steadily stronger minions until the final showdown. Like your idea of a player controlling the enemies, was where WHQ fell down the most in my opinion with the cards and "all enemies appear beside you" setup.

Gazak Blacktoof
02-04-2010, 17:34
It is widely regarded as a very good board game beyond the GW community. Go to Boardgamegeek (at least before the file purge) and mention Space Hulk and you'll get a lot of approving nods. Mention WQ and you'll get blank faces before they show you a copy of descent.

Having played both I can't see why WHQ would compare unfavourably. The art was certainly a lot better for WHQ- no orcs in gimp masks for starters.

Fingers crossed WHQ will see the ligth of day (or more appropriately torch light) again, but it would require a commitment from GW has FFG wouldn't want it.

Lewis
02-04-2010, 17:44
My point being is that I don't know if WHQ has achieved such legendary status that non-core GW ers would rush to buy it.

eriochrome
02-04-2010, 19:37
I think Blood Bowl would have the best chance as another big box release. Clearly they could get a much better product than the current box set at the same price point as Space Hulk(Similar amounts of card and rule length, 2 sixteen man teams with big guys about the same amount of design and plastic as the space hulk set) but since they seem to have gone out of their way to anger the player base recently might not sell well enough

Brandir
04-04-2010, 16:02
There is zero chance of GW re-releasing 'Dark Future'. This is because it simply does not fit in with their Warhammer or 40K worlds; there would be no cross promotional opportunities.

The only chance of 'Dark Future' being re-released is via the agreement between GW and Fantasy Flight Games. FFG have already released a number of old GW line such as Cosmic Encounter and Talisman.

There will be no big-box re-release this year if the new edition of Warhammer is out later in 2010. But 2011 seems free for a 'big' release - 2012 will see, providing GW secure the licence, The Hobbit as the big release and in 2013 a game to go with The Hobbit 2.

I suspect that WHQ is the best game to release and try and emulate Space Hulk. Or maybe re-release Advanced Heroquest? WHQ/Heroquest is easily put in one box and made into a standalone game.

Gorkamorka is too minor a game to receive the new Space Hulk treatment.

Catferret
05-04-2010, 16:23
Here's a few of my thoughts.

Dark Future: No chance. The setting/story really doesn't fit with the GW ethos these days.

Bloodbowl: Still available to buy so not really subject for a fancy limited release game.

Warhammer Quest: 4 starting characters in themed dungeons against one race (orcs and goblins most likely) seems feasible enough to me.

Adeptus Titanicus: A box of 6 titans and some random buildings. That could work.

Gorkamorka: I was under the impression it didn't sell as well as hoped the first time round. Can't see a rerelease happening.

Man o' War: Not sure about this one. I suppose it could work with a few tweaks. Bring it closer in line with Battlefleet Gothic maybe?

Personally, I'd say that Quest feels the most likely to receive the special treatment. Mainly due to the parallels you can draw with Space Hulk. I know I'd buy it anyway. I've always favoured games where the models can develop in some way.

Suicide Messiah
05-04-2010, 16:27
My point being is that I don't know if WHQ has achieved such legendary status that non-core GW ers would rush to buy it.

But how many non-core GWers do you think bought the new space hulk. The reissue was done for the fans so I dont see why WHQ wouldnt be on the cards if SH sold well.

hereticdave
06-04-2010, 18:23
WHQ for the win. It can join my two SH sets

Lewis
06-04-2010, 22:24
But how many non-core GWers do you think bought the new space hulk. The reissue was done for the fans so I dont see why WHQ wouldnt be on the cards if SH sold well.

According to the chatter on Board Game Geek, quite a few. Presumably these people were GW players at one point, but have left the game behind, returning to the game on a nostaligia trip. Just to give you an example, Neil Shuck, the guy who presents the Meeple and Minatures podcast, bought Space Hulk, but hasn't had anything to do with GW games for years.

I do think that WHQ would be difficult to just release with all the models for the entire game, my understanding was that it was a game that needed you to buy more models...

Reinholt
06-04-2010, 22:51
What I want to know is, given their (somewhat creepy) obsession with skulls, why GW has not made a skull shaped dice holder?