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WightKing
31-03-2010, 18:24
Here is my question.

A battle wizard is in a unit of swordsmen and fighting a unit of C.warriors.
Can he cast the first spell of the lore of heaven (.... burning iron i think) against a model he is fighting? The spell is not a magic missile and states that the wizard needs line of sight and no other targeting restrictions aply.

So another question: what is the visibility of the wizard if he is in close combat?
I know he cant see other units but can he see the unit he is fighting?

Thanks for any reply. Sorry for my bad English.

Ultimate Life Form
31-03-2010, 19:15
He can see so he can cast. Things he sees: everything in base contact and things on hills/Large Targets in a 90 arc of view.

By the way I think you mean 'Lore of Metal'.

rtunian
31-03-2010, 19:20
to cast any spell into combat, you need explicit permission from the spell description, or from a faq answer. see "casting spells", p.107

i couldn't find rules defining what your line of sight is while you are in combat, so i assume that if you are in base to base contact with an enemy, that is all that you can see, but if you are not in base contact (say if you have a mage at the end of a wide unit), then you are not so inhibited. but i'm not sure about this...

Necromancy Black
01-04-2010, 00:37
i couldn't find rules defining what your line of sight is while you are in combat, so i assume that if you are in base to base contact with an enemy, that is all that you can see, but if you are not in base contact (say if you have a mage at the end of a wide unit), then you are not so inhibited. but i'm not sure about this...

No no. As you said there are no rules for LOS in combat, so therefore LOS in combat is no different to LOS at any other time, id est, they have a 90 degree arc in front of them and can see over units if they are a large target and can see units on hills and large targets over units in front of them.

It's exactly the same as all other times.

Gaargod
01-04-2010, 01:47
If you had a spell that could be cast into combat, then your LoS in combat is what you can see - i.e. base contact, if it matters for specific targeting.

rtunian
01-04-2010, 14:00
No no. As you said there are no rules for LOS in combat, so therefore LOS in combat is no different to LOS at any other time, id est, they have a 90 degree arc in front of them and can see over units if they are a large target and can see units on hills and large targets over units in front of them.

It's exactly the same as all other times.

wait a tick...

if they are in base to base with an enemy, then they can't only see the enemy they are engaged with?



XXX
XXX
MSSSS

where M=mage, S=mage's unit, and X=enemy, what is M's line of sight? i was saying before that if M is in base contact with X, then M can only see X. are you saying that M can see X and the rest of the 45' arc in front of him that's not covered by X?

Jack of Blades
01-04-2010, 14:04
are you saying that M can see X and the rest of the 45' arc in front of him that's not covered by X?

This makes sense but as sense isn't a particularily strong part of WH ruling I don't think this is the way it's handled. Anyway, if ''no other targeting restrictions apply'' then it is imo obvious that it can be cast into combat.

Necromancy Black
01-04-2010, 14:04
Exaclty right. Also as part of the front of M's base is not in contact with an enemy model, he can see past the unit he's engaged with.

So in this case his LOS is blocked completely:



XXX
MSS


but in this case he can see slightly past the unit:



xxx
MSS

Bah! Doesn't line up exactly how I want :/
M may even be engaged in a challange, this still doesn't change how his LOS works, as there is no rule saying it does.

theunwantedbeing
01-04-2010, 14:10
wait a tick...

if they are in base to base with an enemy, then they can't only see the enemy they are engaged with?



XXX
XXX
MSSSS

where M=mage, S=mage's unit, and X=enemy, what is M's line of sight? i was saying before that if M is in base contact with X, then M can only see X. are you saying that M can see X and the rest of the 45' arc in front of him that's not covered by X?

The line of sight rules don't change when in combat.

You see normally, the only difference being that the enemy is much nearer and so blocks more of your line of sight.

M can still see past X with the free part of its base.
As well as being able to see X.
Similarly, any large targets and things on hills are still visible to M if they are within its normal arc of sight (unless X is a large target as well! in which case it blocks line of sight to the part of the base of M that it covers).

Your just not allowed to cast into combat unless specifically allowed.
Casting out of combat is 100% legal so long as it's not a shooting spell like a magic missile.

The SkaerKrow
01-04-2010, 17:43
To chime in with the example, Rule of Burning Iron ignores all targeting restrictions, can according to the FAQ, that means that it can be cast into combat.

Davo
01-04-2010, 17:48
No no. As you said there are no rules for LOS in combat, so therefore LOS in combat is no different to LOS at any other time, id est, they have a 90 degree arc in front of them and can see over units if they are a large target and can see units on hills and large targets over units in front of them.

It's exactly the same as all other times.

So units in combat can see the Casket of Souls on a hill? Damn. :P

Necromancy Black
02-04-2010, 00:10
Actually yeah, they can. Straight up RAW the casket should affect units in close combat as it's simply an AOE affect that doesn't target combat.

Now, try and find someone who'll play it that way.

Ultimate Life Form
02-04-2010, 10:58
Found me. :D

Necromancy Black
02-04-2010, 13:34
Foiled again!

gdsora
02-04-2010, 17:42
Actually yeah, they can. Straight up RAW the casket should affect units in close combat as it's simply an AOE affect that doesn't target combat.

Now, try and find someone who'll play it that way.

I would love to play it like that....
It's convincing everyone else :mad: