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View Full Version : Best lore vs. Wood Elves?



blackstork
02-04-2010, 11:04
Hi everybody,
I will play against Wood Elves in the next week and I think it would be good to go magic-heavy, because magic of WE is not strong. Which lore shall I pick? I thought about Fire, Beasts, Light or Life.
Fire for Fireball and Fiery Blast - magic missiles, which can do serious damage to creatures without WSv and flammable.
Beasts for spells making enemy's cavalry and monsters useless and giving my cavalry movement. Also Bear's Anger can be usefull and magic missiles from this lore are ok.
Light for flaming attacks magic missile and wonderfull Guardian Light.
Life for spells making worse enemy's shooting, movement and for Master of the Wood.

As you can see, a choice is hard. Could you suggest something to me?
I never defeat WE. I want to do this.

Nathangonmad
02-04-2010, 11:15
I'd go beasts to cower that treeman. But it depends what army your playing if you can't get that spell Id just go for fire.

Tauren
02-04-2010, 13:08
Personally fire... fire takes care of dryad units, takes care of treemen (to a lesser extent) and tends to just be a good magic missile based lore. I would take it over death for my army but sadly can't.

xragg
02-04-2010, 13:46
I vote fire for all the magic missile spells that could care less that many of the wood elf units are skirmishers. (and of course are flaming for the treekin/treeman)

grumbaki
02-04-2010, 14:19
Lore of life isn't bad.

Master of Wood-d6 str 5 hits on any unit in woods or d6 str 4 hits to units within 12'' of woods. Great for dealing with waywatchers and the like.

Howler Wind- no wood elf shooting can target anything within 12'' of the caster!

The Rain Lord- all shooting from that unit is at -1 to hit for the rest of the game


So 3 spells that can work well against wood elves, and the other 3 are more situational. But they are all pretty easy to cast (PL 6-7-8) and if you go magic heavy you can get the spells you need to take them out. Plus it'd be a good theme to have lots of life/beast magic in your army.

Condottiere
02-04-2010, 18:12
Fire and/or Life, but if you seriously want to use it, you have to make sure that you can overwhelm your opponent's defenses and make him use up any Dispel Scrolls, and that your Wizards survive long enough to have an effect, because if I figured out that was your main strategy, I'd try to kill them.

Nocculum
02-04-2010, 18:35
Life, for the above mentioned anti-shooting reasons, and for picking off units hidden in cover that would otherwise be immovable. Waywatchers are abysmally hard to shoot when in cover, impossible in hard, so D6 STR5 auto hits will have your opponent's dispel dice rolling in no time at all.

ShaggothLord
02-04-2010, 18:36
Fire or Life would be my guess. Fire for Tree Spirits, Life to manipulate the trees and make them stay out of the woods.

Xzazzarai
02-04-2010, 22:07
... Dark Magic? Chillwind is awesome! :D

Seriously: Fire or life. But anything that can do damage is good, beacuse they are So fragile!

Vsurma
02-04-2010, 22:20
What race are you playing?

If its lizardmen then fire becomes even better because your slann with have the bane head. This means any fire spell that goes through on the treeman will cause 4! wounds!!! fireball away.

Or if for some reason they have a lord level mage, you can bane head that and cast wall of fire (I think they don't get a lookout sir for that?)

Flaming helps on the forest spirits as well.

Nocculum
02-04-2010, 22:24
Flaming helps on the forest spirits as well.

Sadly not the case any more, with the exception of the tree man. On the other hand, it also prevents regenerate, and combined with the aforementioned timber factor, it's probably the safest lore to go with, since it's a 5/6 winner. Burning Head might not be so useful, with the exception of pinging a wound off a solo character hiding out, or perhaps to cause panic tests on the few units that will be around that arn't ITP. Glade Riders, Guard and Warhawk Riders notably.

Spiney Norman
02-04-2010, 23:23
What army are you playing with? If you're considering the 8 lores, my guess is Lizardmen, High elves or Empire, but its always good to check.

Ok, a quick run down

Fire - fairly decent damage lore, virtually ineffective against treemen thanks to nothing being above Str 4. Okish, but I always find magic missiles to be rather disappointing in terms of damage output so it wouldn't be my first choice.

Beasts - a great lore, esp if there are treemen/ancients/eagles in abundance, also depending on which army you're playing, it can be useful if you're running monsters or a lot of cavalry.

Death - an excellent lore, but not here, WE have too many ItP units which nerfs the best spell, don't pick this one

Shadow - a couple of good spells, but the rest of the lore is average to useless, I can't recommend it.

Light - worst lore in the rule book, 'nough said.

Life - at first glance a fairly weak lore, but its cheap casting and it has all the tools needed to really annoy a wood elf player, Master of stone to hit those archers on the hill, master of wood to hit those tricksy tree-surfers, rain lord and howler wind to frustrate enemy shooting, mistress of the marsh to stop those fast cavalry running rings around you and gift of life to keep that character/stegadon/Dragon healthy. Probably my top choice for fighting Welfs.

Heavens - alrightish lore, if you're playing Lizards your skinks will be forced to take this one anyway. Rerolls are always good, but rarely will they actually make much of a difference, the ward save is useful, but not earth-shattering, and comet is, at best, a distraction for your enemy to dispel in his turn. Might work if your table has no terrain on it (making Life a doubtful choice).

Metal - One of my favourite lores, and exemplary at treeman killing, however thats about all its good for against Welfs, they have no chariots, no warmachines, no real armour to speak of aside from treemen/kin. Not recommended.

My recommendation would be
Life
Beasts
Heavens
in that order of preference.

CrystalSphere
02-04-2010, 23:38
Wood elves are very vulnerable to magic missiles, and the fire lore donīt only have many of them but they are flammable as well, plus they negate the ward save of the dryads and other forest spirits. A humble fire ball can easily decimate a dryad unit, which would be hard to deal with with shooting otherwise. The good thing is that these kind of S4 magic missiles are also handy for killing those T3 with little save elves. I have used life before and it is only moderately useful, i would rather destroy his units outright with magic missiles rather than casting spells to protect myself agaisnt S3 arrows.

Spiney Norman
02-04-2010, 23:53
Wood elves are very vulnerable to magic missiles, and the fire lore donīt only have many of them but they are flammable as well, plus they negate the ward save of the dryads and other forest spirits. A humble fire ball can easily decimate a dryad unit, which would be hard to deal with with shooting otherwise. The good thing is that these kind of S4 magic missiles are also handy for killing those T3 with little save elves. I have used life before and it is only moderately useful, i would rather destroy his units outright with magic missiles rather than casting spells to protect myself agaisnt S3 arrows.

No offense, but every direct damage spell in the game negates the ward save of dryads. Also the only time flammable is really going to be useful is against a treeman (ok theres treekin too, but you don't see them very often), and str4 wounding T6 isn't exactly what I'd call reliable. Bear in mind that the Treeman also gets an armour save against the fire magic, so its really not what I'd call worthwhile.

Master of wood and stone from the lore of life are better as they can get up to higher strength depending on the position of the model in relation to terrain features, at the very least master of wood should stop any wood elf player trying to tree-surf his treemen into position.

Also I suspect you might have a new respect for Str 3 shooting when a unit of waywatchers opens up on your dragon princes/saurus cavalry/Knightly orders at close range...

Basically Life has everything you need vs wood elves, fire has one thing that you need, and has it in abundance, but has no real solution to treemen other than casting every fire spell you can at it every turn and hoping you roll a lot of 6s and that he fails enough armour saves for you to actually kill the thing.

sergio
03-04-2010, 04:06
as a wood elf player, i can tell you that the worst game i ever played was against a high elf list with the lore of life (next to a dual EotG list).

the magic ruined my shooting and moving since i couldnt hide behind trees or hills. this forced me into close combat, where the ASF basically kicked my army while it was down.

CrystalSphere
03-04-2010, 10:27
No offense, but every direct damage spell in the game negates the ward save of dryads. Also the only time flammable is really going to be useful is against a treeman (ok theres treekin too, but you don't see them very often), and str4 wounding T6 isn't exactly what I'd call reliable. Bear in mind that the Treeman also gets an armour save against the fire magic, so its really not what I'd call worthwhile.

Master of wood and stone from the lore of life are better as they can get up to higher strength depending on the position of the model in relation to terrain features, at the very least master of wood should stop any wood elf player trying to tree-surf his treemen into position.

Also I suspect you might have a new respect for Str 3 shooting when a unit of waywatchers opens up on your dragon princes/saurus cavalry/Knightly orders at close range...

Basically Life has everything you need vs wood elves, fire has one thing that you need, and has it in abundance, but has no real solution to treemen other than casting every fire spell you can at it every turn and hoping you roll a lot of 6s and that he fails enough armour saves for you to actually kill the thing.

No offense taken ;) I think it depends greatly on which army you have, because you are talking like i would use the magic to shoot down the treeman (when at least for me, that is never the case. I use the warmachines to deal with him.) The treeman is a forest spirit and as such is inmune to master of wood, so no hitting him while he is treesurfing. With my high elves i simply dispel/hunt his mages and no more treesurfing for him. He can choose between staying all the game in his forest or leaving it and being shoot by my bolt throwers. You could always cast the master of stone agaisnt the treeman of course, given that he is near a hill.

The only thing the lore of life is good is at dealing with the elves of the wood elf army, not the forest spirits. Magic missiles on the other hand are good doing both things. Also if you canīt pick your spells fire is much better as all the spells are useful not like life when you may get things you donīt want or canīt use because there is not a hill or water source. Agaisnt wood elves what i want is magic missiles to deal with their skirmishers/forest spirits at the same time, if they are flammable then thatīs a bonus.

Vsurma
03-04-2010, 13:04
No offense, but every direct damage spell in the game negates the ward save of dryads. Also the only time flammable is really going to be useful is against a treeman (ok theres treekin too, but you don't see them very often), and str4 wounding T6 isn't exactly what I'd call reliable. Bear in mind that the Treeman also gets an armour save against the fire magic, so its really not what I'd call worthwhile.

Master of wood and stone from the lore of life are better as they can get up to higher strength depending on the position of the model in relation to terrain features, at the very least master of wood should stop any wood elf player trying to tree-surf his treemen into position.

Also I suspect you might have a new respect for Str 3 shooting when a unit of waywatchers opens up on your dragon princes/saurus cavalry/Knightly orders at close range...

Basically Life has everything you need vs wood elves, fire has one thing that you need, and has it in abundance, but has no real solution to treemen other than casting every fire spell you can at it every turn and hoping you roll a lot of 6s and that he fails enough armour saves for you to actually kill the thing.

Well, 6s to wound but then causing 2 wounds or 4! if your a slann with the bane head, doesn't sound too bad to me, ok they get a 4+? save after your s4 missile, I probably wouldn't bother if I wasn't using the slann though.

24 missile shots on average to kill the guy, doesn't sound too bad to me, though I imagine your opponent will try and dispel some of those so it would take a while. Empire can cannon the guy to death, high elves have bolt throwers, but lizardmen don't have war machines to take him out so fire is an option, the S4 is great vs the T3 elves and against dryads. I don't see a problem there.

It is a tad annoying that besides the 2 magic missiles there isn't anything else great against the woodies, they often bring no ranked units so wall of fire is no good, conflagration I don't particularly like either.

scarvet
03-04-2010, 13:29
Yeah, Life is defiantly the best.

Fire isn't too bad for burning some trees;
Darkness and Beast wouldn't be too bad for being good around;
Light and Heaven isn't effective against WE;
Shadow is just...not a effective lore.

abcz417
04-04-2010, 12:36
I'm not quite sure why everyone is so anti-light. Their default spell is better than fire because it gives a bonus strength attack against forest spirits, which will cause more damage against dryads, treekin and treemen. If you're running multiple level 2s then light imo is worth considering.

For a level 4 I'd pick fire, wood elves are really fragile, and anything that auto-hits is going to cause serious problems.

In all honesty though magic is as much about the support it can give to your own units as the damage it can cause to your opponent's. Knowing which army you play and what wizard's you're planning to use will help a lot.

scarvet
04-04-2010, 14:03
Because you only get 1 good spell against them?

You will want at least 3 spells that would make your opponent worry.

abcz417
04-04-2010, 17:44
Because you only get 1 good spell against them?

You will want at least 3 spells that would make your opponent worry.

But for a level 1/2 wizard then it really has to do with luck which spell you end up having - your default spell therefore becomes increasingly important - and imo light has the best default spell against Wood Elves.

I agree with you though that if you're bringing a level 4 then the probability of you getting two or three of the better spells in a lore increase and so you should go with something else.