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kaubin
04-04-2010, 06:55
I had another match up recently with our local Daemons player, only thing is that he had brought a Bretonnians army. This is a new player who usually plays 40k, and has been having a little bit of trouble with movement, but has been getting a lot better recently, both in making his armies and in moving them. This was his strongest game and list to date.

I decided to pull out my Dark Elves for the first time since December. I was warming up by watching two Dark Elf players while I was waiting for him, and getting reacquainted with hatred and other various rules

I was fielding this list:

Sorc on Peg LvL 4, Focus Familiar, Power Stone, Pendant of Khaleth
Sorc on Foot LvL 2, Scroll, Sacrificial Dagger
Hag Queen, BsB, Cauldron of Blood

22 Warriors, Shields
6 Dark Riders, Xbows
10 Crossbowmen
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

6 Cold One Knights, Full Command, War Banner
12 Witch Elves, Command, Banner of Murder
10 Shades, Great Weapon

Hydra

Assassin, extra hand weapon, Black Lotus, Rune Of Khaine, Rune of Doom (in Witches)

His list on the other hand looked like this:

Paladin (ld 10 – 1+ armour)
Paladin (ld 10 – 1+ armour)
Paladin (ld 9 – reroll to hit)
Paladin (ld 9 – reroll to hit and wound)
Damsel, LvL 3, some painful dispel scroll, and item
Damsel LvL 2, some item for an extra dispel dice, scroll

5 Knights of the Realm
10 Errant Knights
10 Errant Knights
10 Archers with flaming bows

5 Yeomen
Reliquae with 9 Pilgrims

9 Grail Knights

The table had a hill on each side and a forest to the far left and right. Overall it was a big brawl style table, very open, and not much getting in the way for movement. Perfect for close combat massacres.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Terrain.jpg

Deployment looked something like this. I went for lore of metal and didn't get spell 6 at all. He went for lore of life.

Magic didn't play a big part though, the only spells I managed to get off were the spell for -1 to hit and -1 armour, and it only went off on a pair of 6s. It was a magic stalemate for the most part though.

Stupidity was never failed, so I won't mention that very much either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Deployment.jpg

Pre-game thoughts: This was going to be tricky. His 3 main blocks are all really strong thanks to the support, and he out-ranged me everywhere. I was going to have to use some bait and flee, and the harpies would once again become crucial in the game. The way the blocks are set up though, bait and flee might not be enough, as they are close enough to support one another fairly well.

He prayed so Dark Elves got to go first...

Dark Elves – Turn 1

Moved forward about 6 inches with my line to make sure to be out of range. My Harpies moved up aggressively some 12-15 inches, so that if they were charged they could get caught in front of my force, and if they got away I should still get the jump with my Hydra and Knights. I moved my Dark Riders next to his yeomen to get a shot at them, and hopefully make them panic. My shades, sure to take out those archers moved closer to his block of Knights of the realm, so they could keep in range. Shooting had the Dark Riders down 2 Yeomen, the Crossbowmen were out of range, and the Shades disappointingly only knocked down 2 archers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_1_Brets.jpg

Brets – Turn 1

Chargefest!!!His Yeomen charged my Dark Riders, who stood and shoot, downing another 2 Yeomen. The Errant Knights block on the right charged my Harpies, who fled across my Witches and Cauldron. Surprise for me, his Errant Knights charge an extra d6 inches, and score a 6! Bringing them in combat with my Witches. That was quick! His Errant Knights block on the right and his Knights of the Realm dual charge my right most Harpies. The Harpies flee across my Cold One Knights and my Sorceress. The Sorceress panics and runs towards the edge, luckily rolling low and does not make it very far. The Archers kill back 2 Shades, which is somewhat embarrassing...they are better shots than my Shades :S In combat my assassin pops out and challenges, as there is no unit champion in the Errant Knights, just 2 juicy characters. The ld 10 Paladin accepts. The assassin wounds 4 times, but misses the killing blow, and at the end of it all, doesn't score a wound. The Paladin in return, fluffs his attacks. The rest of the unit slaughters nearly the entire unit, but i'm not worried thanks to their stubborn BSB giver behind them. Unfortunately the Witches fail their test, are run down, and the Errant Knights follow, charging into the Cauldron, who thought it was safe! The Dark Riders slaughter the lonely yeoman, who does nothing before going down.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_1_Dark_Elv.jpg

Dark Elves – Turn 2

Hydra to the rescue! The Hydra slams the engaged Errant Knights on the left in the flank. The Cold One Knights get a feeling they are in range for the Knights of the Realm, harbouring the Damsel, but fall short, and fail between the Knights of the Realm and the left-most Errant Knights block. Uh-oh! The Sorceress and both units of Harpies rally somehow (Ld 6 on the harpies...someone was motivated today...). My Shades move a little more towards the center, and my Warriors wheel to give my sorceress in there a better view, and to trap the flanked block. The Dark Riders move up to face the rear of the Grail Knights if they charge my Hydra. Miscast ends the magic phase on the first spell...not the worst that can happen, but slightly annoying. The Shades only manage another 2 wounds on the archers, who don't flee. The archers kill 1 Knight of the Realm. In Combat, the Hydra and crew kill 4 Errant Knights, and the Death Hag calls out a challenge, and the reroll to hit-wound character accepts. She survives the 3 wounds thanks to her ward save, and only takes 1 wound, and returns 1 wound. The remaining knights hit on the normal Hags, but the Cauldron's ward protects them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_2_Brets.jpg

Brets – Turn 2

The Grail Knights charge the Hydra! This is going to hurt...My Cold One Knights get charged by two blocks of knights, the left block of Errant Knights and the Knights of the Realm, and decide the dice game is safer on the flee than in combat, and go through the Harpies and the Sorceress, safely out of range. No one panics, thanks to the harpies being close to my General, the Sorceress. His Reliquae reforms to face try and go get my Dark Riders, perhaps an impossible feat. The archers don't wound any more shades. In Combat, the grail knights roll well, and manage to put 7 wounds on the Hydra, who does one better and succeeds every single regeneration test, and proceeds to chomp on some more Errant Knights along with the hags to try and round up some combat resolution instead of killing some more expensive Grail Knight models, and manage to kill enough to win the combat by 1! The Paladin in combat does manage to do the final wound on the Hag Queen, but the Errant Knights block reduced to 3 or 4 models flees through my Warriors, but the Grail Knights stay in combat with the Hydra. The dice gods completely won me that one, there was no way I could see myself getting out of that one alive!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_2_Dark_Elv.jpg

Turn 3 – Dark Elves

With the Grail Knights locked in combat, the Cauldron gives and extra attack to the Dark Riders, who rear charge the Knights. The Harpies go up and get in the way of the enemy, as the Sorceress goes and rests in the safety of the Grail Knights right flank. The Cold One Knights rally, and face the front. Shooting finally does the Shades justice, and they eliminate the archers in a hail of bolts. The combat with the Hydra and Grail Knights ends with 1 wound on the Hydra, and a few dead Grail Knights, but the rear charge really hurts their resolution, and they flee, slamming into the Hydra, and the Dark Riders touch the Hydra in their pursuit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_3_Brets.jpg

Turn 3 - Brets

The Knights of the Realm charge the the crossbowmen, who manage to kill 2 knights in their stand and shoot reaction. The Errant Knights block charges the Dark Riders, who flee, and they end up hitting the Hydra. The Reliquae moves around towards my right flank to get some of the action. The Hydra is not so luck in combat this time, and loses 2 more wounds, and flees 7 inches. Luckily for him, the Errant Knights only manage to roll a 6 to pursue the Hydra! Luckiest model ever! The 3 remaining models in the Knights of the Realm pulverize the crossbowmen, and run them down, off the table.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_3_Dark_Elv.jpg

Turn 4 – Dark elves

The Cauldron gives my Knights an extra attack for this turn, and they go for it and hit the Errant Knights block pursuing the Hydra straight in the flank, and just barely make their charge. The Hydra rallies, and the Dark Riders move along to meet the Reliquae, and the Shades move towards the Reliquae as well. Shooting sees all 4 wounds on the Reliquae by the Shades saved. The flanking Chaos Kni....errr, I mean Cold One Knights with an extra attack, manage to wound a lot, but a lot of it is saved, and the difference in resolution is not enough for them to flee.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_4_Brets.jpg

Turn 4 – Brets

Not much to say at this point. His Knights of the Realm came back and made it for the woods on the empty left flank. Kind of looked like fleeing...The Reliquae moved up to get some combat. The boosted Cold One Knights kill a few more Errant Knights, but the Errant Knights hold their ground.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_4_Dark_Elv.jpg

Turn 5 – Dark Elves

At this point I just charged the Hydra into the Errant Knights, still giving the extra attack to my Knights with the Cauldron. I moved my Shades to pursue the fleeing Knights of the Realm, and dealt 2 wounds on the LvL 3 Sorc, and knocked a Knight off his horse. This time with the help of the Hydra, the block did break, and smashed into my waiting units on the right Flank.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_5_Brets.jpg

Turn 5 – Brets

My opponent threw the towel at this point, but we decided to keep going just to see how his Reliquae faired in battle, since he had just bought the model and it hadn't done anything yet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_5_Dark_Elv.jpg

Turn 6 – Dark Elves

Flanked the Reliquae with Harpies. The Shades finish up the the Damsel and her unit, peppering them with iron. The Harpies died and ran, only to be caught up and destroyed by the Reliquae.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_6_Brets.jpg

Turn 6 – Brets

Frontal charge by extra attack-CoKs, and they hold, hitting a lot of their wards and not dying very fast.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/Mad_Handerchief/dark%20elves%20vs%20rets/Dark_Elves_vs_Brets_Turn_6_Dark_Elv.jpg

More CoK on Reliquae action followed, the Reliquae actually managed to hold the Cold One Knights in place for around 4 battle rounds before failing a break test and getting caught up.

End Result – Massacre for the Dark Elves!

Post-Game Thoughts: The Hydra is broken! Or maybe the regeneration rule is to blame, in previous editions the Hydra would have died before getting the chance to regenerate. Either way, i've never seen anything like that before, had the Hydra not been there, he would have steam rolled over the rest of my army. I didn't use my shades very well, and my Witch tarpit was disappointing. Once again, the assassin under-performed for me (never ever managed to get it to kill a character), although I liked having him in the Witches to control the amount of damage coming at them when they get charged. Witches are just too fragile. I really like the combo of Witch Elf tarpits thanks to the Cauldron BSB, giving Cold One Knight anvils an extra attack. It just seems like the most perfect hammer-anvil combo out there, I will probably try basing an army like that in the future, with 2 units of Witches, 2 units of CoKs, 1 Cauldron, and a Lord nearby giving everyone a leadership of 10.

Once Bitten
04-04-2010, 12:03
Nice win. A couple thoughts:
- Why did the Knights Errant unit not have a champion? It is an automatic upgrade in every knight unit.

- When the GK broke, they wouldn't be destroyed by fleeing into your hydra because it was part of the combat. They hydra would need to roll higher than them to run them down.

Hydras aren't broken, IMO, just vastly underpriced.

kaubin
04-04-2010, 12:58
Nice win. A couple thoughts:
- Why did the Knights Errant unit not have a champion? It is an automatic upgrade in every knight unit.

I don't know why not. I asked if he had a champion before challenging so my assassin didn't waste it all on just a unit champ, and he said they didn't :S This was only his second time playing Bretonnians though, i'll let him know next time about that.


- When the GK broke, they wouldn't be destroyed by fleeing into your hydra because it was part of the combat. They hydra would need to roll higher than them to run them down.

The Grail Knights were sandwiched between the Hydra and the Dark Riders, with the biggest unit strength being the Dark Riders, so I thought he crashed into the Hydra while fleeing through the Hydra, since it has a unit strength 5 and up. It's the way we've been playing it at my club, but we may be wrong, the most frequent players (including myself) have only been playing for under a year. If that's the case though, would the Dark Riders automatically catch them for rolling higher in the pursuit, or would they just get stuck in the Hydra, even if they rolled higher? We also played that when the other unit rolled higher than the other in the pursuit, the runners were automatically destroyed, not even moved, representing the other unit "getting the jump" and chopping down the unit before it had time to get away.


Hydras aren't broken, IMO, just vastly underpriced.

Well I guess luck was involved in it too, but my Hydra has survived so many things that it really shouldn't of had in the past. It did get charged by what i'm guessing is over 1000 points and come out with still 2 wounds on it's body :O

Once Bitten
04-04-2010, 13:50
Yeah, the GK would run away from the higher US. If either of your units rolls higher than the GK, then they are destroyed.

On this next part, I could be wrong - but the way I would play it is that your dark riders would indeed stop when they hit the hydra IF your hydra had already pursued. If you pursue with the DR first, then I would move them the full distance. The reason I say this is because technically, when you break someone in combat, all your units move to the same side of the enemy unit as your biggest US unit when they pursue.

Sinsigel
05-04-2010, 03:53
War Hydra For The Win!:evilgrin:
Such a brute makes armies which have virtually no access to flaming attacks weep.
(Yeomans can lit fire on the tips of their arrows, but hey, it's only S3.)

But seriously, how did Bretonnians manage to get the awesome Ld OF 10?:eek:

Zaustus
05-04-2010, 04:52
Congrats on the massacre. I'm baffled by the Bret list, though. How does he have 6 characters (max for Brets at 2000-2999 is 5 characters), and how do his Paladins have such high Ld?

kaubin
05-04-2010, 14:31
Im not sure about that, when he had 6 characters, I did get a moment of doubt, but I seemed to remember hearing that Bretonnia had more heroes than the other armies, so I figured it was normal. Maybe he just saw the max amount of heroes and max amount of Lords and took it based on that...either way it doesn't bother me too much, too many heroes is generally bad for the army, which is why I cut down one of my heroes when I field an assassin.

As for the leadership, I don't know about that. I asked for the Leadership values of his characters, and he said it was 9 and 10 after checking his book and his army list 2 or 3 times. I don't regularly play against much Bretonnia, although it's not his type to cheat, so i'll just assume it was some mix up if their is no combination of weapons that does that, and i'll pay more attention next time if something like that happens again.

Malorian
05-04-2010, 15:43
Ya something was wrong with his list... even lords are only LD 9, paladins are 8. And he could have only had 5 characters.

At any rate, even though I typically cheer for brets, when I saw he was so character heavy I really hoped he would be crushed.

Thank you for the execution :D

selone
05-04-2010, 17:26
Thats an outrageously bizarre bret character fest. Theres an item that gives +1 Ld for a turn but thats afaik, it.
Thanks for the report

kormas
05-04-2010, 22:55
also i seem to see a lvl 3 damsel....is that possible?.

but anyway it looks like it was a good game :)

kaubin
05-04-2010, 23:52
also i seem to see a lvl 3 damsel....is that possible?.

Ah, no, probably not, that`s just me that doesn`t know the name for the Lord level caster in the Bretonnian book :D It was his only Lord level character, other than the sketchy Ld the Paladins had Hero level attacks and WS.

Dungeon_Lawyer
06-04-2010, 01:18
Brutal--your war hydra is brutal.....

Spartacus
06-04-2010, 20:20
BRB says that if a fleeing unit has to move through an enemy unit or impassable terrain, it's automatically destroyed.

So regardless of fleeing or pursuing distances, the fleeing unit must face directly away from the unit it's running from and attempt to flee. If it ever touches an enemy unit, as is the case here, that means that if it moves at all, it is running into one of your units, and thus is instantly destroyed.

I think. :p

Toshiro
06-04-2010, 21:52
Not if they are involved in combat though, if you are attacked from several sides and forced to flee through a unit you get to pass through it, it's a exception from the normal rule that you can't flee through enemy units. It's on page 41 in BRB;

"The only exception from this is that units that break and flee from a multiple combat are allowed to move through any of the enemy they were fighting."

:)

Domandi
10-04-2010, 11:40
One more side note... Harpies don't cause panic checks to any dark elf models. So feel free to flee them through all your troops.(other than other harpies)

zak
11-04-2010, 19:10
I agree with Toshiro. Any unit involved in that combat (touching or not) do not count for auto destroy. You would have to roll equal/higher than the fleeing units flee distance to catch them. The issue of who blocks who is a little more fuzzy! I go with declaring who is fleeing first and in this case I would suggest the Dark Riders. Just hope you don't roll a triple 1!

kaubin
12-04-2010, 19:29
One more side note... Harpies don't cause panic checks to any dark elf models. So feel free to flee them through all your troops.(other than other harpies)

Gah, I had completely forgotten about that >.<
It would have saved me the stress of almost losing my general turn 1.