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patrikhuset
04-04-2010, 13:37
Hi!

Got one question regarding the rules of a generals death...

So we've been using some of the old rules from 6th (by mistake) which we always try to update when we come across them.

But what about the old rule when a general died, all your troops had to take a LD-test? Can't seem to find this rule anymore? Has it been removed with 7th edition?

BR,
P

Atrahasis
04-04-2010, 13:40
It was removed in the move from 5th to 6th if I recall correctly.

Definitely not around in 7th either way :)

Ultimate Life Form
04-04-2010, 13:55
The only consequence is a few extra victory points for the enemy.

Harwammer
04-04-2010, 14:17
Panic tests on general's death were dropped in 6th. Thinking about it its actually pretty harsh that undead troops still crumble on the general's death as this was their equivalent.

Ultimate Life Form
04-04-2010, 14:47
The only General who still adheres to the principles of old is Louen Leoncoeur.

ROCKY
04-04-2010, 14:56
lol i think they dropped it for the sake of armies with low ld like orcs and goblins, because of mass panicking hehehe, that or that other heroes in the army want a promotion ;)

Hojo
04-04-2010, 15:02
Didn't know of this rule it is sad they removed it.Very realistic and made killing the enemy importand which is good.

Condottiere
04-04-2010, 15:11
It is realistic, but that made killing the General the top priority.

Ultimate Life Form
04-04-2010, 15:16
I'm not sure if it's realistic; after all how should the soldiers in the heat of battle know that their General just died a mile away? Vampire Counts on the other hand...

Agnar the Howler
04-04-2010, 15:24
It might be slightly realistic, but having it today?

"Okay, Empire, we're facing the greenskin horde on the battlefield! I want all the cannons to focus on killing the warboss in that big unit of Orc boys!"

Turn 1:
Warboss is sniped by cannon-fire, all Orcs flee, Empire win.

patrikhuset
04-04-2010, 15:26
Thanks for the replies!

Soon time to adjust to new rules again though =)

The Inspector
04-04-2010, 15:38
The only General who still adheres to the principles of old is Louen Leoncoeur.

Hah, rather suitable then.

Also, to posters commenting on how the game would revolve around the removal of a single model heralding victory: what is the principle of Chess?

[yes yes, there is a lot more to chess than check mate, I know :rolleyes:]

Lord Zarkov
04-04-2010, 20:52
Panic tests on general's death were dropped in 6th. Thinking about it its actually pretty harsh that undead troops still crumble on the general's death as this was their equivalent.
Crumbling has been toned down though, used to be all units without a character of champion die and all units with one take a Ld test or die. Now at least you can still play on, and occasionally not lose.

theunwantedbeing
04-04-2010, 21:50
what is the principle of Chess?

Chess doesnt have cannons.
Also warhammer isnt chess.

Necromancy Black
05-04-2010, 01:13
Also warhammer isnt chess.

But, occasionally, it is cheese.

@Harwammer Undead would need major, and I do mean major, reworking if they didn't crumble when the general died.

Shield of Freedom
05-04-2010, 04:21
They didn't change it because of the "now the whole army has to take a panic test issue." They changed it (as stated in a White Dwarf upon the release of 6th edition) because too many people were equiping their generals with as much DEFENSIVE items as they could find and hiding the general behind trees and/or buildings. Not very heroic. So they changed it so people would be more willing to put some offensive capabilities on their generals too, and make them lead the army from the front where he BELONGS in a game like Warhammer.

Condottiere
05-04-2010, 07:30
Not necessarily, some Generals aren't always suitable to take the enemy head on.

Harwammer
05-04-2010, 11:35
@Harwammer Undead would need major, and I do mean major, reworking if they didn't crumble when the general died.

Are you sure? For many invospam lists the vampire lord is so integral to the functionality of the list that the death of the general is going to screw the army before 'general's death crumble' is considered.

The opposite is also true; there are plenty of lists you can make with VC where the general's death doesn't have that much of an impact.

Anyway, I was just pointing out crumble is a relic of an age where it was common to lose half your army when your general died. When considering this fact in a vacuum surely you can agree it seems unfair this penalty was removed for every army but undead?

Now you mention it though I'd rather the potential for raising was cut down so fighting VC wasn't a game of 'kill this unit/model or lose. That game always sucks regardless of if it is a bloodthirster, death star or gateway FTW dprince.

Davo
05-04-2010, 15:55
Undead used to crumble before the general dying panic test was introduced as far as I remember.

I think the death of a general causing panic was introduced in 5th and I am sure that my Undead had to take crumble tests in 4th.

Grymlok
05-04-2010, 17:07
The old rule didn't take into account the likelihood that soldiers may have hated their general and be fighting because they were forced to. On the other hand, they may be fighting purely for wages and have had no particular fondness of the big rich boy. Indeed, some troops may have celebrated his death (maybe they could be stubborn for the remainder of the battle due to sheer joy a'la Brets if King Leon crops it)

It is a rule that I don't miss, not having to be so intensely careful about when and where you send in your gaffer to fight.

I've seen a third of my Brets run away because of it. Surely they would have been inspired to avenge their fallen heroic leader and not run away for some Kleenex!

Condottiere
05-04-2010, 17:23
The rule is still present in the Paymaster, where it's unappreciated.

Arion
05-04-2010, 20:53
Ahhhh, I recall a two v. two battle in old 5th ed where my Ally was an Undead player. my Team mate placed a big baddy on a dragon and had NO OTHER CHARACTERS, not even a champion. his general was killed by a hail of arrows before we even go to move, and as a consequence, his whole army poofed leaving my 1500 points of High Elves (i know, unlikely combo, but we did it anyways) to deal with 3,000 points of brets.