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w3rm
04-04-2010, 13:58
I was thinking we should start a tactica to use all that lovely Skaven Magic.

Right now I'm only going to comment on the Lore of Ruin because I have little experience with the Lore of Plague

Skitterleap- One of my favorite spells ever. Its easy to cast and incredibly useful. I mainly use it on my seer to get him out of harms way and to line him up for a juicy Cracks Call through the enemies flanks.

Warplightning- What a deadly spell. I like to have the Warp Condenser on a Warlock Engineer so he can get d6+2 str 5 hits. I have had this spell kill 8 black gaurd in one go making that unit almost useless. Great spell to have and there's always something to cast it at. Personally I like using it on lightly armoured stuff that's fast or I dont want to engage. Like Shades or Swordmasters just to name a few.

Howling Warpgale- I absolutely love this spell. Its pretty self explanatory. Use it as one of the first spells you cast to draw out some dice. It is useful enough for the opponent to throw some dice at it and that makes it all the more easier to get off Scorch or Cracks call

Death Frenzy- This spell is good to cast on slaves or giant rats. A unti of 6 wide giant rats will get a whopping 36 attacks! Plus the rats are fast and cheap so they make a great sacrificial unit to throw up there and hopefully take out some of the enemy.

Scorch- Ahh Scorch. My favorite spell in the whole game. The ability to place the small template anywhere withing 24" and do a str 4 flaming hit is just brutal. Add on the fact that a single wound forces a panic check makes this spell really really good. Use it to blast big Elf units and this spell will annihilate Empire, Beastmen, or Goblin blocks. Just a wonderful all round useful spell.

Cracks Call- Good spell but has a short range. Its a really good monster killer but thats all its really good for.

Xynok
04-04-2010, 14:37
I think the absolute holy grail would be getting a free cast off of an enemy miscast and getting the dreaded 13th spell...

Imagine a 7x3 (7 frontage) unit of giant rats death frenzied and blessed with filth with the 4 packmasters behind... that's 46 poisoned attacked a turn! And the unit it's cast on is only 95 points. There's some real beef in there so take out tough things like dragons and giants in there. Of course you'd have to be extremely lucky to pull this off but it'd be great.

Another thing to note is that death frenzy makes us brave... great for dealing with undead armies

w3rm
04-04-2010, 15:10
Mmm I hadnt thought about that use for Death Frenzy vs the Undead. That's a good one.

Nocculum
04-04-2010, 15:21
I'll get back with a more detailed analysis of the Lore of Ruin shortly. I've asked to contribute to the Magic Tactica for this so I take this to be good feeding ground for general uses and how it's viewed on the whole. So if you've any tactics that are thinking 'out of the box' you think deserve to be in the write-up, speak up!

Dantès
05-04-2010, 01:11
Death Frenzy and Bless With Filth are actually incredibly easy to get off together. I used to take two Plague Priests, a Warlock Engineer, and a Grey Seer, so it was always easy to get my magic off. After a lot of Spells of Plague ownage I decided to drop a Plague Priest in favor of a BSB, as it was too nasty.

Getting two Plagues off on the same unit...and having them transfer to other units next to it...is some of the best win scenarios in any magic phase imo. Plus, multiple withers are fantastic. Wither two units of elves, then Warp Scroll one and Plague the other...it's so rewarding. Spells of Plague are just fantastic, I can't say enough good stuff about it.

Sinsigel
05-04-2010, 03:41
Cracks call requires models in the 'line' to pass Initiative test or removed from the table, doens't it? Then it would be excellent against Empire and Dwarfs.
(War Machines with I value of '-':))

Dantès
05-04-2010, 03:46
Good idea Sinsigel, I hadn't thought about that...I always use it to great effect vs. Tzeentch Daemons...I've killed plenty of Horrors, Heralds, and Flamers with it!

Warhammer Madman
05-04-2010, 06:27
Cracks Call makes lizzardmen cry...

Edit/ (Slightly more time on hands)

ok Ruin spells

1= Skitter leap. Great spell alway try to get one. gret for setting up cracks call or a doom rocket but also great for those sticky situations...

2= Warp lightning. Great magic missle about all I can say on this one D6+2 with condencer makes all fast cav tremble...

3= warpgail. verry little exsperience with this one generaly swap for anouther

4= death frenzy. within my list theres lots of frenzy (I verry rarely use this)

5= template of flamey death (yes a tecnical term). great fun against plague bearers and pretty usefull against fast cav I like this spell. also try it on vampire infantry units with drakenhof banner tends to inflict around 5 casiulties...

6= Jaws of the rat-wolf (yes cracks call) real fun this one just watch as your opponent contimplates the fact that with some bad luck his lord and dragon 14ich away could be eaten up by a casm. A real scroll puller.

Plagues spells

1= Pestilence Breath. Its a solid spell but its full potential is unlocked with wither. its still nice against T3 heavy armoured stuff but little else.

2= Poison. Great agains tally nurgle or on frenzied units (death frenzy or otherwise). this spell is particularly good as skaven infantry cant deal with high toghness things and poison tacles the shortcomeing.

3= wither. a great spell save till the end of the magic phase or just before casting plague. this spell works on everything especialy elves or other T3 things but is great on T4 and T5 to against T6 dragons I find it less usefull but it does weaken the rider so can be usefull. anouther scroll puller

4= Vermin tide. Light cav dislike this spell as do light infantry and warmachines but to the weaker end of a strong lore still a sloid spell (could deal with a better range)

5= Cloud of Corrupsion. Your not realy going to cast this with a Lvl2 and a gtrey seer is more likely to want to cast Plague,Cracks Call or the 13th. so I havnt got this one of yet (30 games under my belt).

6= Plague. a Great spell hrrific when used in tandem with wither killed 12 saurus with that combo then 11 skinks... people are likely to scroll this one to.

13th... well this one is great you ither irresistable or dont realy 7 die you can do it... my kill count with this baby is
19 high elf spearmen and mage,
3 ogre ironguts and Tyrant (ogre sized infantry are still infantry)
4 Kroxigor
10 sellies 3 vamps and vampire lord (serves you right for bunkering beneath a convinient hill...)
Morathi, Mage and 15 warriors
3 skink Handlers (I dont like little units that march-block)
17 Plague bearers
17 Plague bearers (Damn you dice gods one more and that herald would be a clan-rat!!!)

but yea I think im overly lucky with that spell 8 casting out of 30 games...

Tower_Of_The_Stars
05-04-2010, 11:57
I agree the Skaven need a magic tactica. Here are my thoughts on their spells based on the 10 or so games I've played with my Skaven so far.

Ruin

1) Primarily I use it for teleporting 0 Level WE's around the battlefield equipped with doom rockets and brass orbs and death globes who can then go on to march block. Used this way it really makes this a default spell your opponent can't ignore. It is also useful for getting heroes out of unfavourable combats.

2) All round useful magic missile and considerable more dangerous then its generic S4 counterpart. I always give one WE the condensor; casting D6+2 S5 hits on a 6 is just nasty.

3) Very useful spell. Has great synergy with the Storm Banner should you wish to take it. When this spell is cast your skirmishing units become very hard to kill through shooting. This spell goes a long way to protecting my Gutter Runners when they sneaky infiltrate. It also makes it harder for the enemy to force panic tests on small units of Giant Rats.

4) I haven't had much experience with this spell though I would only ever cast it on Slaves since the D6 wounds per turn is too limiting to allow the spell to be cast on more expensive units. I don't really value the extra attacks either but it is nice making your slaves ItP.

5) The bane of enemy infantry units or skirmishers; nasty spell with a reasonable casting value.

6) Quite a circumstantial spell but when coupled with the Brass Orb and Doom Wheel I can be fairly sure that I will be able to take down the enemy's big nasties. Personally I think this spell is a lot more useful if your Grey Seer is on a Screaming Bell since you can advance towards your target in relative safety certain that you will not be failing any terror tests said target might be likely to cause.

I haven't had as much experience with Plague so some of the spells are omitted here. Note that I do not have a Plague Furnace in my army. I would imagine these spells would in part be used differently if I did.

Plague

1) Brilliant spell for the Plague Priest. These kind of spells are sometimes redundant on magic casters since you don't want them too close to the enemy whereas its not a problem if your Plague Priest gets into combat, especially if he is with a unit of PCB. Sit him in some woods and breath on any knights that role pass. This spell is also good for weakening any enemy units you have charged.

3) Horrible spell. Particularly amazing synergy with the PCB, itself or the Warpscroll.

4) Another short range spell that like 1) is useful due to the nature of the caster.

The only problem I have had with Plague spells so far is there relatively short range. I role magic heavy but in the first turn I can't really put the heat on my opponent since the Plague Priest's dice are normally wasted.

w3rm
06-04-2010, 02:48
Wither is one of my favorite spells ever. Easy to cast with 2 dice but I usually try to use 3. Oh is that your super nasty black gaurd unit? Oh well its t2 now. And I have the Warpscroll. Oh 400+ Point a BG anvil just died in one turn? So sorry. :D

EldarRaven
06-04-2010, 02:57
Scorch is my fav spell in the whole list. I have to say I have never came close to loseing when I get this thing off. Its just so powerful. I played a friend of mine that didn't even try to stop it in the 1st magic phase when I got it with both a Gray seers and an warlock. After he seen the damage it did he couldn't stop the next one in the 2nd turn cause I got double 6's.

dnort32
09-04-2010, 01:10
Skaven magic is amazing, plain and simple. What makes it more amazing, is a Grey Seer on a bell in a giant block of stormvermin just nuking the crap out of everything within 24 inches. Thirteenth spell is fun to try and get off but it almost never happens and usually results in miscasts.

My question is what do you do against heavily armored oponents like Chaos or bretonia? Plague spells do wonders, but Im trying to avoid PP and a PF. Cracks call is nice but hard to hit cavalry with. Any pointers on magic armors fighting these tin cans on horses?(With lots and lots of lances..... ><)

sun tzu
20-04-2010, 23:29
Anyone else having problems using a magic heavy shaven army against lizard men?

My opponent keeps using that "ability" that makes you discard every "6" you roll on one wizard within 24" oh, and 2 engines of the gods:cries:

FailSafe07
21-04-2010, 00:22
If someone's using Slann+ 2 EOTG, The tactic I would suggest is hitting him about the head with the big rulebook until he stops being an idiot.

Also except maybe for certain VC and Tzeentch Daemon builds, any magic-heavy list is going to struggle mightily against that many dispel dice.

That build means he has 8 DD + maybe scrolls and the discard 6 ability so you're not getting much through that.

sun tzu
22-04-2010, 10:03
If someone's using Slann+ 2 EOTG, The tactic I would suggest is hitting him about the head with the big rulebook until he stops being an idiot.

Also except maybe for certain VC and Tzeentch Daemon builds, any magic-heavy list is going to struggle mightily against that many dispel dice.

That build means he has 8 DD + maybe scrolls and the discard 6 ability so you're not getting much through that.

:D Nice idea and very tempting.
Yes, that combo neatly closed down my GS till he was dead.
I couldn't get a single spell off against that slann combo.
That ability stops total power as well, all for the same cost as a warp storm scroll. meh:wtf:
My other spell casters were left facing all the dispel dice and scrolls
I was left with a magic heavy skaven army that couldn't get any spells off.
I think i only got 2 off in the whole game and that was due to him fluffing the dispel dice on one spell and total power on another wizard.

The only real fun thing in the whole game was 6 plague censer bearers charging one of the engines of the gods and distroying it.:)

happy_doctor
27-04-2010, 10:48
As coordinator of the Magic Tactica, I applaud this initiative! Keep the good stuff coming, then we can concentrate them into an article.

Although I haven't played much with magic-heavy skaven in the 7th edition, here's a couple of thoughts:

-When rolling for spells with a grey seer/ vermin lord it's better to stick with a single lore rather than mixing and matching. Make up your mind on what spells you need to make your army work and stick with the lore that provides them, or you're risking ending up with an array of useless spells.

-Crack's call and Skitterleap work great together, especially if you have a power stone lying around to catch your opponent off guard. Most shooting-heavy armies tend to have warmachines neatly lined up and in close proximity, so it's definitely worth the risk in my opinion.

Lyynark
27-04-2010, 11:19
shaven army

I lol'd a little when I read that.

On topic, pumped up Slann with two EotG seems a bit OTT. I wouldn't play him or counter with four cannons and watch him weep as his stegadons die.

w3rm
27-04-2010, 16:14
I think both of the lores are equally useful. Lore of Plague has 3 really deadly Spells

Wither
Plague
Bless With Filth

Ruin has 3 Deadly spells as well but all are very useful.

Warp Lightning
Crack's Call
Scorch

Wither is just disgusting. It rocks elves in the face. Hit a unit twice with it and even clanrats will munch right through it.

Esco Thomson
27-04-2010, 19:38
I think both of the lores are equally useful. Lore of Plague has 3 really deadly Spells

Wither
Plague
Bless With Filth


I would argue that Cloud of Corruption should go over Bless with Filth...

CauCaSus
28-04-2010, 15:33
Anyone else having problems using a magic heavy shaven army against lizard men?

My opponent keeps using that "ability" that makes you discard every "6" you roll on one wizard within 24" oh, and 2 engines of the gods:cries:

What about taking a magic-light list (ie. only scroll caddies) and run over him with a combat-heavy army instead? I know its a different ball-game, but I enjoy bringing no-magic armies when I face Dwarfs. All those anti-magic toys are just points-sinks for him.

w3rm
28-04-2010, 15:54
Cloud of Corruption is a decent spell but I hate how it hits my own units. I guess its best use would be on a seer with skitterleap but then he's stuck there until the next magic phase.

happy_doctor
28-04-2010, 16:02
That's why it's perfect for these times when a forest near the enemy deployment zone is available. Skitterleap there, then blast away! As an added bonus, your grey seer will be march-blocking the enemy as well.

w3rm
28-04-2010, 16:03
Yeah thats a good point. I dont know that spell just never really appealed to me. I'll have to try it sometime.

lordsigmund
28-04-2010, 21:18
It's good with Vermin Lords, run down the side of the enemy army and drop clouds of corruption of them.

piperider361
02-05-2010, 08:37
I think the 13th spell is underrated.
I gear up a Grey Seer with 3 Power Stones and Skalm on a Bell. This gives him a 4+ ward for miscast protection, and Skalm heal up after I take two wounds. I usually throw 6 dice (4 + a power stone) at the spell, although have gone with 5 before as well. I understand and expect it to miscast half of the time, but really you only need it to go off once to be a game changer. Removing that one small group of archers with a wizard in them, or severly weakening that group of blackguard/swordmasters/other elite unit will change the game, and you can usually get a character with them. Once you get a nice solid game changing 13th spell, you can revent back to spamming WL and Scorch.

w3rm
02-05-2010, 14:32
Ok so yesterday I had a game with my Skaven and I think I'll stick to lore of Ruin for my seer.

The Plague lores have such a short range and the seer is so fragile I like to have him back sniping with WL and Scorch.

Icarus
05-05-2010, 07:25
My Skaven magic tip would be to always roll for spells on your lesser casters before rolling for your Grey Seer. That Warlock Engineer may roll Skitterleap all by himself, which means you don't have to substitute one of the Seer's spells.

I know it seems simple, but I often see people making this mistake!

happy_doctor
05-05-2010, 11:53
I hate to be the party-pooper, Icarus, but the rules of magic in 7th edition prohibit this by obliging you to roll for the highest ranking wizard's spells first.

Icarus
05-05-2010, 12:35
Arg... showing my age. haven't played much since 6th....

EndlessBug
05-05-2010, 13:02
I think the 13th spell is underrated.
I gear up a Grey Seer with 3 Power Stones and Skalm on a Bell. This gives him a 4+ ward for miscast protection, and Skalm heal up after I take two wounds. I usually throw 6 dice (4 + a power stone) at the spell, although have gone with 5 before as well. I understand and expect it to miscast half of the time, but really you only need it to go off once to be a game changer. Removing that one small group of archers with a wizard in them, or severly weakening that group of blackguard/swordmasters/other elite unit will change the game, and you can usually get a character with them. Once you get a nice solid game changing 13th spell, you can revent back to spamming WL and Scorch.

I don't think anyone underrates it! it's just difficult to get off. elite armies loath it, trust me. Lost an entire unit of Warriors of Chaos alongside chaos sorcerer to it. Only slightly less likely to irresistable force as you are to misscast.

horror
17-06-2010, 09:53
Our magic is not so lovely anymore is it fellas?!

CauCaSus
17-06-2010, 10:49
Why not? Now, low level wizards have an even better chance to cast spells with the ability to throw as many dice as they want and add their level to the roll. Skitterleap a warlock engineer next to an expensive enemy unit, throw brass orb and try to cast skorch with a ton of dice. He will probably get it of, or he will get IF/miscast, blow himself up and take half the unit with him.

Blair
18-06-2010, 00:22
Is anyone able to post a Skaven Spell Tactica 101 for the true noobs - like me.

The Spell summaries are great and a lot of info can be gleaned from them with regards to when to use them, on whom you should use them etc. But any "must have/do" tips would be great for those of use that haven't played WHFB before*

*this post may or may not be pointless what with the imminent release of 8th Edition.