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DaGreaterGood
05-04-2010, 08:37
Hi y'all

I have been an Empire-player for a year now, and i have been able to collect the miniatures for atleast 2500 points, but i would like now to get a bit infantry/magic heavy with my empire.

Before, i always played sort of knight heavy, with a grand master and warrior priests, but lately i was pulled to the dark side, and played more battles with magic-heavier lists, so a lv4+2lv2's and a Bsb,:) but most of the times, i'm in CC with my knights in turn 2 so magic heavy wasn't that handy...

So, my question is: what are the best ways to field an Empire heavy infantry force? I do not have acces to a steam tank, or flaggelants, but the flaggelants can be arranged.;) I have enough state troops for 2 blocks, but ís that enough?

(also, correct me if this is in the wrong section)

Greets,

DaGreaterGood.

Lord Solar Plexus
06-04-2010, 07:44
To be brutally honest, I don't think there is a good way to field Empire infantry heavy lists. Those blocks won't get into combat and are bound to break and run when they get charged.

Baboon
06-04-2010, 07:49
I have been looking at a force like it. Not managed to build it as im waiting on the new rules to see what it does. I was looking at
2 blocks of 30 state troopers. ( pick your flavor) backed up with unit of 9 detachement and a unit of 5 archers to screen.
1 block of 20 ish great swords backed up by a unit of 9 detachment and then another 5 archers, to screen.

I would use that as a core and work from there.
I also went for 2 units of 6 knights and 2 units of pistolers but the extras cand be swapped around.

Condottiere
06-04-2010, 08:37
Gunline - but that's not the most interesting way to play, though it gives you time to use all your Wizards, while keeping your opponent at arms length for a while.

PeG
06-04-2010, 09:03
A couple of large blocks for keeping your wizards in. Archer detachments for screening/redirecting. Maybe a combat detachment if you believe in your blocks combat abilitites (Best option is probably swordsmen with swordsmen detachments). Add some shooting and a couple of units of knights for close combat support.

Also I like to have a couple of units of for example flagellants to defend my rear against terror causing flyers. At least they are likely to hold them for a one or a couple of turns which might give me time to send something else back to fight them.

Finally I like to use a flying character with speculum to fight big things but this can of course be one of your wizards. Just keep him in hiding until you need him (pick a lore that has spells that doesnt require LOS).
Remember that magic heavy empire normally still is magic light compared to some other lists that you and your opponents might face meaning that depending on your playing environment people might bring a heavy magic defence which can decrease the efficacy of your wizards significantly and in contrast to for example WoC and Vampires the only things your wizards can do is to cast spells (with exception of the one carrying the speculum of course ;) )



Of course the list gets stronger if you add Stanks, Walter etc but then it also becomes a standard empire tourny list which is a bit boring.

Lord Solar Plexus
06-04-2010, 11:27
Gunline - but that's not the most interesting way to play, though it gives you time to use all your Wizards, while keeping your opponent at arms length for a while.

Except that it doesn't really do that. It causes a few casualties but hardly slows anyone down.

ghostline
06-04-2010, 16:25
I use to run an infantry only Empire army back in 6th edition.

At 2500 pts...

General of the Empire.
Rod of Command, Holy relic.
He is a general, and will act like one in the battle, his only purpose is to give out LD9.

BSB: Imperial Standard is a must. If there is one item that empire has that earn's it's point back it's this item.

Warrior Priest: Sigil of Sigmar and Icon of Magnus. Use this guy where you think your enemy is going to hit you with his big fear causing unit.

BattleWizard: Any lore is acceptable, though shadow's is good for unseen lurker, lore of death if you want to try and get them fear, if you want to play it safe lore of beast's is a good pick so I can turn the battle wizard into a CC character if i want to, and 5+ cast to auto rally is nice too :). For magic items it's really up to your style. I prefer Orb of Thunder or Doomfire ring + a power stone.

Core:
30 Swordsmen w/command
15 free company detachment
15 halberd detachment

30 Halberdiers w/command
15 free company detachment
15 swordsmen detachment

30 Spearmen w/command
15 free company detachment
15 swordsmen detachment

10 Sworsdmen w/no command.
Special

30 Great Swordsmen w/command(You use to be able to take the griffon banner for 50 points on a unit of state troops, but now it's 55 so either go with war-banner, or standard of arcane warding)
12 swordsmen detachment

30 Flaggelant's w/prophet of doom.

Tactics: This army is all about holding the line while your unit's move into flank/surround the enemy. Deployment should look like this; x= detachment, (S) Swordsmen(h) halberds,(P) spears, (g) great swords (F) flagellents. (s) is the unit of 10 swordsmen

x(P)x x(S)x (G)x x(H)x
(F) (s)

You want the greatswords and the swordsmen in the middle, as there the most likely to survive a charge. Though depending on witch side of the middle the greatswords are leaning on, you want the Flagellant's behind your line on the opposite side. This is to plug any gap that is created when you get charged by a death star, or get hit with a Knight BUS(those units will try to avoid being engaged with things that don't break).

The little 10 man swordsmen unit is just proving cover for your General and BSB.
Providing his LD9 re-rollable break/psychology/rally tests. This also give's you the option of throwing your general and BSB into combat that would be more favorable(as the general isn't kitted out to be a combat monster or hero killer).


The list isn't magic heavy or shooty heavy, and it's in fact a lot more challenging to play then the Popemobile/ IC Knights/ steam tank combo. Whenever I use this list, I often get a lot of gasp's and or comment's on how impressive it look's when deployed. Though only one person has called it cheese(this list really rock's against against demons and VC, as there not prepared for the war of attrition, but I have trouble against skaven and Tomb kings).

nub5
06-04-2010, 22:32
In my normal 2k list I have

AL
2 lvl 2 Wizards
Captain on Pegasus w/ Casket

Greatswords w/ 2 archer detachments
Flagellents
2 units of Basic Knight
Hangunners w/ detachment of crossbowmen ( or unit of xbows w/ handgun detach)

2 Cannnons
Outrider unit

Hellblaster or Hellstorm

I run one wizard as a beastmage and put him and the AL in the greatswords.


Now if you plan to do a wizard lord then definately look to fielding GS and Flagellants. If you know you will face a lot of fear causers, ensure that you have the Icon of Magnus in the GS unit.

Ozorik
06-04-2010, 22:51
The Village Idiot (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/warroom/tvi_tactica1.php)

This is probably the most famous Empire infantry strategy. It doesn't work all that well in the current environment (depending on your opponents) but it is still functional.

Elfboy
06-04-2010, 23:01
i was wondering - since i have seen it in project logs and now here - what the advantage is of having a detachment of nine? I have no experience on the matter, its only that I intend to build an empire army so I'm intrigued

Ozorik
06-04-2010, 23:05
9 allows for a small footprint (3x3) while still being tough enough to require a moderate amount of shooting or magic to reduce to below the all important US 5.

Large detachments tend to get in the way and minimal sized ones are too easy to neutralise.

nub5
06-04-2010, 23:07
i was wondering - since i have seen it in project logs and now here - what the advantage is of having a detachment of nine? I have no experience on the matter, its only that I intend to build an empire army so I'm intrigued

The main purpose of detachments is to remove ranks and to do so must be US 5+. The problem with a 5x2 is that present a large frontage for enemies to get attacks back and eat into your 5 man buffer. The smaller frontage mean less can attack you back and it is more easy to manuever.

soots
06-04-2010, 23:14
Magic. You have to think smart about this.

For heavy magic i recommend the following...

1. Arch lector on war altar - Free fire spell every turn + prayer. Cant go wrong
2. All mages pick fire magic
3. All mages pick the first magic missiles spell. This is the most reliable setup. Because you dont need to roll to get specific spells, you know exactly what you're getting into. And miscast is near impossible.
4. First 2 mages are level 1. From then on they are level 2. why? Because you want to throw all your 5+ magic missiles with 2 dice, so you get 2 free power dice, and the first 2 mages get one each, so no need to upgrade them. That saves you enough points for a free mage.
5. Pick up the bound items Doomfire and Ring of Volans. Consider the Casket for your AL only if you plan to get into the action. Often you might want to hold back and force the enemy onto you so you can get 2 more turns of magic.

This setup does not have the potential of max wizards max levels, but it is more importantly reliable, cheaper and more efficient. Maximize youe efficiency

I usually run this setup WITHOUT handgunners/crossbowmen. Because it provides 2 important things.
1. Automatic hits - Sorry, missile troops hitting on 5s and 6s isnt reliable! Important targets like skirmishing units are your arch nemesis and you cant hit them. Also missile troops take up far too much real estate! A terrible side effect for an army with the detachments rule.
2. No need to worry about getting magic dice spammed. You have strong defense.