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venusianfurs
24-05-2005, 17:01
Is there any information on this out there? I 've seen references to Naval docks, but nothing else, so can anyone help here?
In fact, info on any of the 'real' planets would be good.

Sojourner
24-05-2005, 17:19
It'd be a great fuelling depot, but obviously you can't land on it.

It has rings and an enormous magnetic field full of energetic radiation, so it isn't really a great place to berth starships.

Norminator
24-05-2005, 17:50
I would imagine it's moons would be used.

Sojourner
24-05-2005, 18:03
Again, the moons aren't particularly hospitable. Io has a volcanic eruption powerful enough to blast matter into jupiter itself every few weeks due entirely to jupiter's tidal effects. All its other moons suffer this to a slightly lesser degree.

McMullet
25-05-2005, 09:59
The other moons orbit a bit further out than Io - the vulcanism is far less severe.

Still, the radiation is still there. I should think the Imperium has some sort of special anit-radiation system though, like metre-thick lead plating, or getting conscript platoons to stand between Jupiter and the important people.

Then of course there's the problem that you'd be sat in a big fat gravity well - I'm not sure how big a problem this is for Imperial ships though.

Puffin Magician
25-05-2005, 10:12
Jupiter itself is likely harvested for fuel. As said, with no surface whatsoever there's not much else you can do with it [maybe a cosmic landfill?]. The small ring belt isn't a problem for berths, simply dock on another plane [space is 3d, remember?].

I doubt piddly little things like giant volcanoes and powerful electromagnetic fields would get in the way of the Imperium using every bit of Galilean Moon they got their hands on. They've probably been mined and colonized since well before M15 [when humanity first left the solar system]. Io is indeed an insanely dangerous place, this (http://www.solarviews.com/eng/io.htm) website sums it up nicely:
Io orbits closer to Jupiter's cloud tops than the moon does to Earth. This places Io within an intense radiation belt that bathes the satellite with energetic electrons, protons, and heavier ions. As the Jovian magnetosphere rotates, it sweeps past Io and strips away about 1,000 kilograms per second of volcanic gases and other materials... Io acts as an electrical generator as it moves through Jupiter's magnetic field, developing 400,000 volts across its diameter and generating an electric current of 3 million amperes that flows along the magnetic field to the planet's ionosphere.
So an irradiated, volcanic, electrostatic hellhole. Perhaps the Astartes use it as a training facility? I'm sure the Imperium has ways of utilizing even this interstellar real estate.

Europa is assumed to have a liquid ocean beneath it's kilometer-thick icy crust so it might have more peculiar uses, or it could simply have underwater versions of terrestrial facilities. Ganymede and Callisto are cratered balls of icy rock, not unsuitable for enormous military bases or anything else you can think of that simply requires a lot of space.

For the literally dozens of remaining smaller moons [NASA counts 63 total], I guess they're detection stations, starbases, fuel depots, and other essentials to keep Fortress Sol ready to defend against an attack.

Cloudscape_online
25-05-2005, 10:19
So, Io is a really angry ball of hyper electrically charged volcanic death. The Adeptus Mechanicus would probably put a pair of gigantic engines on the bloody thing and launch it at a hive fleet that gets too close to Terra. That'll show the scabby gribblies who's boss in this galaxy, :D

Yorkiebar
25-05-2005, 10:50
As for the other solar system planets, Mars is usable, the moon is a defence fortress (I always liked that idea), but the other planets are almost totally inhospitable. Why would the Imperium use them when they have thousands of life-supporting worlds across the galaxy, and the ability to build satellites and fortresses as big as small planets anyway?

Puffin Magician
25-05-2005, 11:02
Why would the Imperium use them...?
Because Terra is very, very hungry. Humanity hasn't always had the whole Galaxy to feed itself [remember we only ventured outside the solar system in 15,000 A.D.] and I doubt they would simply be abandoned after other planets were colonized such a huge distance from home. Their land has been built up, bulit-over and recycled for thousands of years.

In the 41st millennium, I'd expect every scrap of land in the solar system [artificial or not] to be used as agricultural crops, water purification and power production plants, landing platforms, shrines, Administorum buildings, missile silos, fuel depos, macro cannons, manufacturing facilities... everything Terra would possibly need, it's the most important planet in the Galaxy, remember.

Why spend countless amounts of materials, lives and money building moons and planets when you have over 100 such objects lying around already?

WLBjork
25-05-2005, 11:02
On the grounds that they would have been settled before the Horus Heresey no doubt.

IIRC, Titan is reputed to be the home of the Grey Knights. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a number of the moons and asteroids house bases for the Inquisition.

Mars is more than "just about usable" - it's the closest Forgeworld to Terra. Indeed, there are a number of tunnels leading who knows where, but were the source of the Land Raider and Land Speeder STCs (so-called because they were discovered by Techno-Magos Land).

Who knows what technologies are still available from Mars?

Sikkukkut
25-05-2005, 11:53
Ganymede and Callisto are cratered balls of icy rock, not unsuitable for enormous military bases or anything else you can think of that simply requires a lot of space.

Something bad happened on Ganymede. I don't have the quote to hand, but there was a sidebar in one of the second-edition books about "the contagion of Ganymede" and an Imperial declaration that "We must accept that this place is now forever lost to us, and is the eternal home of damnation".

There are some pretty solid rumours that attribute this to the Mechanicus messing about with warp-coil technology that they didn't quite know how to contain.

Typheron
25-05-2005, 12:46
Ganymede was used for an admech experiment involving some sort of prototype warp drive or reactor, it went a bit wrong and the moon was declared lost to the imperium. I think they might have bombed the crap out of it to as they do in these circumstances.Most of the other moon, asteroids and anything that has any trace metals or material would have been mined out and then probably settled as either a military instalation, a research lab or a human settlement of some kind. From the impressions given in the fluff of the imperium, the sol system is majorly built up and the moon in perticular is basically described as one big space station used to service one of the naval fleets that protect the sol system.

astrocortex
25-05-2005, 13:27
Who knows what technologies are still available from Mars?

As many new toys as Games Development care to dream up I would think! :)

The solar system is supposed to be an absolute fortress, even more so after the Horus Heresy. Terra as we know is basically a hive world mascarading as the emperors palace and Mars is owned by the Ad-Mech. I would think that the gas giants and their moons are used for the fleet and for housing massive military installations and all the support services they would need. Every other usable bit of rock will have something planted on top of it. Sporting an obscene amount of weaponry no doubt!


Europa is assumed to have a liquid ocean beneath it's kilometer-thick icy crust so it might have more peculiar uses

I could see the Ad-Mech using Europa for cold weather endurance testing for all of their various tanks, weapons and machinery. Something fails due to the cold? just increase the number of blessings and rituals until it doesn't!


or it could simply have underwater versions of terrestrial facilities.

They've mentioned giant underwater hab domes elsewhere such as 3rd ed codex space marines, so I don't see why they wouldn't be there and be crammed full of guardsmen. I imagine them to be like the underwater cities in The Phantom Nuisance :D

Scythe
25-05-2005, 13:52
Probably most (if not all) of humanities old technologies will lie burried somewhere in data archieves on mars, but since the adeptus mechanicus can hardly be called logical or reasonable institute, I doubt that data will ever resruface again.

Unless that fluff about the dragon turns out to be true after all.

Typheron
25-05-2005, 14:21
well one thing about the data archives on mars is that there apparently a highly dangerous place. Things from the dark age of technolagy stalk those abandoned halls, just look at what happened to anakin land, he went down there and they only found his log indicating that somethign was picking them off one at a time.

theres probably a lot of lost places with the sol system, the bottom of hive structures, hidden rooms within asteroids and moons, supposedly theres a chamber at the centre of the moon where some of the lab work for the primarchs was done.

athamas
25-05-2005, 15:25
most odf the mones of jupiter have primitive atmospheres, i expect in 30k years something has been done about this,

titan IS used by the grey knights, and i expect the rest are full of Skitarii, fleet docks and general deffences,

as to mars, i think its upper crust [5km down] is full of domes ect, which could hold anything, [titans, skitarii legions in suspension, data vaults etc..]

Scythe
25-05-2005, 17:27
The moons of Jupiter have no atmospheres worth mentioning. In our solar system, the only satelite with a real atmosphere is indeed Titan. However this doesn't account for that much; Luna is used despite lacking an atmosphere, and worlds with an atmosphere (like Venus) are skipped because of their extreme hostile envoirnement.

t-tauri
25-05-2005, 20:08
Given that Mars has been terraformed, has a breathable atmosphere and has had one for millenia then it's likely that anything potentially habitable in the solar system has been improved. I'm not aware of any reference to anything in the solar system except Mars, Titan and Terra being inhabited, but I'd think that in the 41st millenium then there's no reason why many others couldn't be terraformed.

Venus could have it's atmospheric problems sorted, Europa's icy seas would be ideal for submarine habitation, most of the big satellites like the Galilean moons of Jupiter or even our moon could probably hold an atmosphere for a while if one were to be generated (and if they can make one on Mars they can make one on any of the large moons). I'd be interested to see if anyone has any references to any other planets being inhabited.

athamas
25-05-2005, 20:17
we could technicaly teraform mars now... [take 100 years for the radiation t dissapate but its possible]

just think what 30k years worth of technology can do

TheSonOfAbbadon
25-05-2005, 21:39
According to 40k fluff, Mars is terraformed by 2100. Which suggests we start terraforming now.

Although in 50 years we might find a way to dissapate the radiation in only 50 years.

Dakkagor
25-05-2005, 22:40
be fair, that fluff was probably generated in the 90s, with no knowledge of current terraforming techniques (such as they are)

Theory has it that we could probably have started terraforming mars in the 70s, it would have just cost the GDP of the western world to do so.

athamas
25-05-2005, 22:43
well nuking the place with the cold war stockpile woud have helped... alot...!

Dakkagor
25-05-2005, 22:48
so, your immune to radiation? How much of your soul did you part with to get this gift from nurgle? Or are you half cockroach?

Personally, I wouldn't touch a planet that had been exterminatused with the 1970s russian nuke stockpile. The amount of dirty weapons alone. . .

Scythe
26-05-2005, 08:04
Even tough we could terraform mars now, there's still the question wether the atmosphere will last. With the limited mars gravity, atmoshpere could simply leak back into space over time. Wether this will really occur is unknown, but it would be a quite a bummer if you just spend bilions of dollars and decades of time to terraform the planet ;)

Sojourner
26-05-2005, 08:37
You could certainly work out whether an atmosphere would hold, but it depends on the amount of gas released from processes on the ground to replenish what does escape. Every atmosphere has some gas loss, but earth's (and for that matter, Venus') replenishes it just as quickly. Mars can't retain nitrogen as is obvious from the fact there's none there, but it might be able to hold some oxygen if it were cold and of low enough pressure.

athamas
26-05-2005, 08:49
that atmospher would be thin, but breathable, you would still need bio domes to live up there, but you would not die from walking outside for 30 secs,

with our current level of technology, there is NO WAY we could live outside, but the radiation would add to ... the ionospher i think, and give added uv protection, ad make it thicker by adding heavy particles in the upper atmospher, [i think that was what was proposed]

the domes would keep us alive, but if there was a dome break, ppl would be able to life for a limited time to

a) repair the damage,
b) get to safety

plus we could plant plants there to convert the current CO2 to oxygen!

Scythe
26-05-2005, 08:57
Of course we could also just go the other way round, and bio-engineer humans to make them able to survive in such hostile envoirnements...

Or am I getting to far now?

athamas
26-05-2005, 08:59
ahhh but then we develpoe another race... who might reject us, and decide that they like our planet, and being tougher, decide to take it off us!

Scythe
26-05-2005, 09:02
Not if everyone was bio-engineerd this way...

Good thing there are no religious fanatics here just yet...:D

TheSonOfAbbadon
26-05-2005, 16:08
This reminds me of a MMORPG, where some people turn themselves into powerful super-humans to survive the harsh atmosphere of a planet that was being colonised, and the other group attacked them because the technology they used was made to clone warriors and make them much more powerful. Then the super-humans side gets really pissed off after being attacked, and create huge armies of super-humans and strange killer beasts.

I guess I should post something helpful to the topic, so:

Some people would not want to be bio engineered and would hate the bio-engineered people.

Scythe
26-05-2005, 16:15
Going of topic: Well, it's not that different currently. Only now we bash heads because we have a different religion or skin color, and in the future we bash heads because we have different DNA.

Guess its just human nature to beat each other up for apperantly no reason...

athamas
26-05-2005, 16:40
yes, but that is xenophobia,

TheSonOfAbbadon
26-05-2005, 16:45
It is human nature to bash the head in of people who are better than you/threaten you...

Scythe
27-05-2005, 17:32
Not always. Some people enjoy being stronger as others and to prove it they send random people to the intensive care. You should think that 10.000 years of civilization would lead to some progress in the social contacts area, but I guess that doesn't go as fast as technological development.

EmperorsChamp01
28-05-2005, 23:27
Mars is the home of the Audptius Mekanics (excuse the spelling) That is where all the Titans are held. The the Tech marines are trained there as well.

TheSonOfAbbadon
29-05-2005, 12:06
Mars is the home of the Audptius Mekanics (excuse the spelling) That is where all the Titans are held. The the Tech marines are trained there as well.

1. Worst spelling of Adeptus Mechanius ever.
2. We know.

Liam
17-07-2005, 21:35
i think he was doing jar jar binks language there
mekancis

Goblinardo
17-07-2005, 22:12
Imagine that, the AdMech being run by Gungans... *shudders*

I think the Ganymede incident happened because the AdMech were messing with Squat tech, but I'm not sure.

The pestilent 1
17-07-2005, 23:47
Ganymede was used for an admech experiment involving some sort of prototype warp drive or reactor, it went a bit wrong and the moon was declared lost to the imperium. I think they might have bombed the crap out of it to as they do in these circumstances.Most of the other moon, asteroids and anything that has any trace metals or material would have been mined out and then probably settled as either a military instalation, a research lab or a human settlement of some kind. From the impressions given in the fluff of the imperium, the sol system is majorly built up and the moon in perticular is basically described as one big space station used to service one of the naval fleets that protect the sol system.


*cough*DOOM*cough*
i love the idea of a flurking great Bloodthirster smashing through a moon, forever trapped in this dimension because of the manner of its arrival...
maybe cybered up with rockets and other gubbinz. :evilgrin:

orangesm
18-07-2005, 01:55
Jupiter (or rather Jupiter's Orbit) is the home to Battlefleet Solar.

Radiation is not a concern, it is safe to say that any ship larger than a shuttle craft has shielding, be it lead, water (which is an excellent shield against radiation), or its own EM field to protect it against stellar radiation.

As mentioned previously we only are sure as to what Terra, Mars, Ganymede, Titan, and Jupiter are used for. The remaining planetoids in the system could be any manner of things. Some of what was mentioned before, but then we need to keep in mind that humanity has been actively developing the Solar System since the dawn of human civilization. Now once Mars is colonized - may not even be terraformed, could simple grow into a hive planet early on - asteriods are drilled out and colonized and export materials to Mars. Europa probably is a colony itself and exports water of all things. The other moons of titan are used for testing, colonization, training, etc.

The biggest thing to remember anything and everything in the Solar System that can be developped/used/consumed probably has been, throw the modern conditions and the current time scales on which we think things could be done out the window. The Solar System is powering Man's conquest of the stars by M15 that is 12,995 years away! Think how far we have come in the past 3,005! We have gone from caves in Africa and Europe to the Moon, we have gone from it taking days to take messages to get from one City to the next to taking seconds to talk to each other on opposite sides of the world. We have gone from being able to travel roughly 40 miles in 2 day to being able to travel around the world in 2 days.

Throw out any hazards that the solar system may have, humanity will have conquerored anything it has to throw at them by M15.

Sai-Lauren
18-07-2005, 12:53
The moons of Jupiter have no atmospheres worth mentioning. In our solar system, the only satelite with a real atmosphere is indeed Titan. However this doesn't account for that much; Luna is used despite lacking an atmosphere, and worlds with an atmosphere (like Venus) are skipped because of their extreme hostile envoirnement.
Titan's a moon of saturn ;)

The Cassini-Huygens mission has discovered at least one other moon with an atmosphere IIRC. And I think one of Neptune's moons has an atmosphere as well. May be wrong.

The moon is terraformed, and holds an atmosphere (Mk1 power armour wasn't sealed against vacumn, and there's old fluff about fighting on earth, the moon and mars during the emperors rise to power). IIRC, the moon is the headquarters of the Battlefleet Solar, and is certainly the second or third most heavily defended planetary body in the whole imperium (after the earth and vying with Mars).

Mars is the AM's home, so I would suggest Phobos and Deimos are heavily used by them, and there's amost certainly some orbital habitats and research stations around there as well. But they only have a couple of Titan legions, not all of them (read aout Gryphonne IV in the tyrannid codex - if that's not annoyed the guys at Forge World, I'll be surprised).

Radiation around Jupiter? The imperium probably doesn't care, so long as there's something there worth keeping people on the moon in question.

TenTailedCat
18-07-2005, 13:01
Titan's a moon of saturn ;)


Nobody has suggested otherwise. What's your point? Nobody suggested it was a satelite of Jupiter.

Just because there was fighting on Luna, that's not to say it's been terraformed. If it hadn't been Terraformed the fighting would have been limited to sealed hab-units or installations.

Thud
18-07-2005, 13:22
1. Worst spelling of Adeptus Mechanius ever.
2. We know.

When correcting someone else's spelling it would be a good idea to spell the word correctly yourself. ;)

On topic: I believe it was in The Inquisition War triolgy that I read about Pluto being a fortress world or something like that. Seeing as Jaq Draco goes to Terra there should be some more mentionings of the other planets, though I cannot remember for sure as it has been a while since I read it.

Sai-Lauren
18-07-2005, 13:31
Nobody has suggested otherwise. What's your point? Nobody suggested it was a satelite of Jupiter.

Just because there was fighting on Luna, that's not to say it's been terraformed. If it hadn't been Terraformed the fighting would have been limited to sealed hab-units or installations.
Well, about every time it's been mentioned so far in this thread, Jupiter's been very closely associated with it. But the comment was supposed to be a bit tongue-in-cheek, hence the ;).

And the power armour fluff does say the moon's been terraformed, as had Mars - although most of the Martian atmosphere was burnt out when the AM split during the heresy.

TenTailedCat
18-07-2005, 13:34
I was just playing Devils advocate, I'm glad you backed the thing about terraforming the moon up with fluff though, always helps to have sources. *adds information to mental 40K encyclopedia*

Scythe
18-07-2005, 13:58
Which is rather strange imho. Most scientists worry about the terraformation of mars because the planet might not have enough gravity to keep the terraformed atmosphere close. Terraforming the moon is quite frankly even more difficult, not to say impossible.

But then, it's science fiction...;)

El_Machinae
18-07-2005, 14:31
Actually, Mars is quite capable of holding in an atmosphere. Sure, it will lose gases, but at a rather slow rate.

Here is some information on that.

http://www.universetoday.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5126&hl=terraform&st=0