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w3rm
09-04-2010, 02:19
So anybody got any interesting and unconventional Deathstars? Not the ones we normally see but the unsung heroes of Deathstarism.

I like the Giant Rat Star

40 Giant Rats

6 Packmasters

Mastermoulder with a Great Weapon

Skweezel Gnawtooth

Just owns everything. Now get death frenzy off on it... I would hope for regeneration or +1 attacks but poison is nice too.

or the Troll Star

Black Orc Warboss on boar with Amulet of Protectyness enchanted shield and Shaga's Sword

Orc Bigboss on Boar with BSB and and Banner of +d6 to charge

19 Trolls

So this has +2d6 to its charge on the WAAGH! and hits like a sack of bricks.

3 Ranks + standard + loads of kills.

or Lucky Git Star

BSB w. Warbanner

Head Honcho with Flail, Purple Rock and Rhinox Horn

Honcho . 3 Theifstones and Flail

40 Lucky Gits w. FC

So this unit starts out with +7 combat res and its not going anywhere as long as the general is alive and lots of re rolls.

Zaustus
09-04-2010, 02:34
I don't know if this one is common or not, but I have an opponent who likes to use a Bretonnian deathstar, something like:

Paladin, Battle Standard, Banner of the Lady, Virtue of Duty, lance, shield
Damsel, L2, horse, Holy Icon
10 Knights of the Realm, full command, War Banner

When the unit is intact, not only is it all in 2+ armor with a ward save and MR(3), it has 8 static CR (assuming they outnumber), plus the enemy gets no rank bonus. It's hard to beat, especially if it charges you!

w3rm
09-04-2010, 02:56
Eeek that thing is scary!

SPSchnepp2
09-04-2010, 03:24
That Bret star also suffers from huge flanks, and if it doesn't win the first round of combat it's screwed. I loves my killer cavalry to death, but they don't make great deathstars.

Not to mention it's illegal. The Bretonnian BSB can't have a shield or a lance.

Dantès
09-04-2010, 03:44
27 Minotaurs with AHW's, FC
Doombull with Blackened Plate, Crown Of Horns, AHW
Gorebull BSB with The Beast Banner, Shield, Heavy Armor
Gorebull with Pelt of the Shadowgave, AHW


This unit is a bargain at 2471 points. Drop the Bloodkine and add in 2 units of 5 Ungor Raiders and you've got yourself a 2500 point army!

Run em 6x5, with all the character up front. -1 to shoot at the unit (yay effective!), 4+ ward against flaming attacks (take that daemons!!!), and stubborn on ld 8! Not that they'll lose combat...ever...

Zaustus
09-04-2010, 05:20
That Bret star also suffers from huge flanks, and if it doesn't win the first round of combat it's screwed. I loves my killer cavalry to death, but they don't make great deathstars.

Not to mention it's illegal. The Bretonnian BSB can't have a shield or a lance.

Well I just threw the shield/lance in, forgetting he can't take them.

You have to protect its flanks obviously, but it's quite good at receiving a frontal charge.


This unit is a bargain at 2471 points. Drop the Bloodkine and add in 2 units of 5 Ungor Raiders and you've got yourself a 2500 point army!

I think you'd need another unit of ungors to meet the minimum core requirement at 2500. I actually played against a minostar years ago, in 6th edition. That was a scary unit!

SPSchnepp2
09-04-2010, 06:01
Well I just threw the shield/lance in, forgetting he can't take them.

You have to protect its flanks obviously, but it's quite good at receiving a frontal charge.

Yes, but don't forget that unless it charged only the three in front get to fight.

Zaustus
09-04-2010, 06:15
Well duh. :) The unit is unusual in that its huge static CR means it usually doesn't need to do wounds to win combat.

That said, I'm not arguing it's the best thing ever or anything like that. He asked for unusual deathstars, and I provided. :p

Dantès
09-04-2010, 13:32
I think you'd need another unit of ungors to meet the minimum core requirement at 2500. I actually played against a minostar years ago, in 6th edition. That was a scary unit!

Damn, you're right. I refuse to drop anything in the Mino unit, so it looks like I'll just have to play at 3000 and throw another doombull in there! With MR!

I love how it's a 3+ unit, no max. Lets see...

57 minos (gotta make sure you keep that rank bonus! Too many cannons these days!) comes out to an even 3363 points. I could play a nice 4k game with the characters already listed and 5 units of ungor raiders. Nice!

shartmatau
09-04-2010, 15:56
I play with this dwarf star. Its not super killy but it wins combats and grinds people down like a proper dwarf should.

Dwarf Thane BSB - Runic Banner (MR of Redbeard for +1CR, +1CR, 5+Ward for BSB)
25 Longbeards - Full command, Shields, Great Weapons. Runic Banner (+1CR, Double US)

They sit with 9 static combat res, never panic, very unlikely to ever run from fear. Take the charge of a nasty unit and still win combat, then grind them into the dirt.

Bladelord
09-04-2010, 16:03
Something I've thought about:

Vampire, BSB, Dread Knight, Walking Death, Warbanner.
200pts.
35 Skeletons, FC, Banner of the Endless Nightmare.
325pts.

9 Static ress:)

grumbaki
09-04-2010, 16:06
Shart,

But isn't that 620 points? I mean, that really is alot for a unit which can't really do much damage. Plus the thane only has T5, 4+ AS, 5+ WS. There are plenty of characters which can take him down. Plus if the unit is flanked it only gets +4 CR, while the flankers, if another unit, get +4 CR too (3 ranks, flank). It is a cool idea, but how well does it work for you?

I just can't help but think that for a mere 30 points more you can upgrade them to hammerers with shields for the stubborn and potential to use their GW.

shartmatau
09-04-2010, 16:15
thats all true. playing with dwarves you have to be smart to not get flanked, which for me is using warriors and terrain to protect the flanks of the unit. The BSB dieing happens more than I would like but unfortunately there is no way to really protect him other than putting another more fighty character in the unit. which i do occasionally.

The Hammerers would be better for stubborn but they dont put out any more damage than longbeards. I use longbeards because these are the models I play with (and have).

FailSafe07
09-04-2010, 18:33
27 Minotaurs with AHW's, FC
Doombull with Blackened Plate, Crown Of Horns, AHW
Gorebull BSB with The Beast Banner, Shield, Heavy Armor
Gorebull with Pelt of the Shadowgave, AHW


I would love to play against that particular deathstar with my Empire army :)

Great Cannons FTW.

sssk
09-04-2010, 19:28
Dwarf Thane BSB - Runic Banner (MR of Redbeard for +1CR, +1CR, 5+Ward for BSB)
25 Longbeards - Full command, Shields, Great Weapons. Runic Banner (+1CR, Double US)

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I may well be, it's a while since I saw anything small and adorned with a beard), but can't you have the BSB with 3x +1CR, and then the unit standard with 2x +1 CR?

Let's say you have a nice big 30-40 man (dwarf) unit, which admitedly is rather unrealistic, but anyway. That way you have 3 ranks, outnumber (probably), banner, BSB, +5CR. That's a nice +11CR before a blow has been struck...

...though obviously, once a blow is struck, the BSB will be dead, and then it's only +7.....how feeble. I always used to find it good to have ironbreakers with the +7 and then a BSB with a 1+ re-rolled save. That way all your lovely CR is pretty safe

Hilte2
09-04-2010, 22:05
[QUOTE=Zaustus;4559301]Well I just threw the shield/lance in, forgetting he can't take them.
QUOTE]

IIRC, it also can't take both a magic banner and virtues - virtues count towards the magic item limit, and the BSB can take a magic banner OR magic items.

H2

highelfmage
09-04-2010, 23:04
[QUOTE=Zaustus;4559301]Well I just threw the shield/lance in, forgetting he can't take them.
QUOTE]

IIRC, it also can't take both a magic banner and virtues - virtues count towards the magic item limit, and the BSB can take a magic banner OR magic items.

H2

the bret player can do that. look it it up if you are not sure. but i am not a big fan of death start. mine has to be 23 phoenix guard s/c/m standard of ballance. AOC on champ. cadrian and teclious.(sp)

Dantès
09-04-2010, 23:05
I would love to play against that particular deathstar with my Empire army :)

Great Cannons FTW.

Well, then it's a good thing I'll be bringing TWO such units

Hilte2
10-04-2010, 01:59
[QUOTE=Hilte2;4561343]

the bret player can do that. look it it up if you are not sure.

Huh - my bad, you're right.

H2

highelfmage
10-04-2010, 02:42
[QUOTE=highelfmage;4561475]

Huh - my bad, you're right.

H2

it happens to the best of us :)

kaubin
10-04-2010, 03:11
I`ve been toying with the idea of making a Dark Elf Warriors star seeing that banner of Nagarythe. 50 Dark Elf Warriors, BSB with the Banner of Nagarythe, and a ton of small units on the side. Just move up with your block, pretending to be clumsy, showing a flank, combat rez, you`re unbreakable, and then bam! Tons of small units coming in that all add +1 to static combat rez as the opponent tries to grind through 50 bodies. Nice thing about the flank charge is that your BSB is out of harm :D

shartmatau
10-04-2010, 14:53
Correct me if I'm wrong (which I may well be, it's a while since I saw anything small and adorned with a beard), but can't you have the BSB with 3x +1CR, and then the unit standard with 2x +1 CR?

Let's say you have a nice big 30-40 man (dwarf) unit, which admitedly is rather unrealistic, but anyway. That way you have 3 ranks, outnumber (probably), banner, BSB, +5CR. That's a nice +11CR before a blow has been struck...

...though obviously, once a blow is struck, the BSB will be dead, and then it's only +7.....how feeble. I always used to find it good to have ironbreakers with the +7 and then a BSB with a 1+ re-rolled save. That way all your lovely CR is pretty safe

unfortunately no you cant do that. The +1CR rune can only be taken once per banner.

Raditz
10-04-2010, 15:26
Throgg the Troll king, 15 trolls and any hero I feel like on mount with a troll sized base. Rest of the army put into other monsters.

That's honestly the only deathstar I'd ever want to try out.

w3rm
11-04-2010, 18:00
Screamer Star

20 Screamers

Fly to flank. Sweep across enemy. Kill stuff.

RipFlag
11-04-2010, 18:19
Archeon and a BSB, mounted on Deamonic mount, plus a lev 1 scrol caddy mounted on chaos steed, in a unit of 20 or so dogs.

So ok the unit is rather unwieldy, massive flanks, but my god does it pack a punch. The dogs are for outnumber and 3 ranks, the BSB and mounted mage are to fill the front ranks up so that when you charge no one can attack the dogs if anyone is left. With Archeon, when he rolls ones, dogs die, no big deal.

Bladelord
11-04-2010, 18:22
Archaon alone's a nice Deathstar:P

w3rm
11-04-2010, 19:55
2 Vampires on steed with raise creatures of the night and extra level.
1 vamire count on steed with read fury and dread lance
27 dire wolves.

Out number plus fear plus kills plus its fast and replenishes itself.

Gaargod
11-04-2010, 21:52
Tictactoe
10 Skink skirmishers
10 Skink Skirmishers
18 Terradons with brave

Ta da, 1000pts on the dot. Deploy in reserves (effectively), come in and horrendously murder-kill a big expensive unit with rocks, then play avoidance for the rest of the game.

nobsb
12-04-2010, 04:42
28 Warriors of Chaos, MoS, HW/Shield, Command, Rapturous Std., (7x5)
Level 4, MoT, spell fam, 4 power stones, Daemonic mount, Diabolic Splendor
Level 1, MoN, infernal puppet
Level 1, MoN, 2 dispell scrolls
Level 1, MoN, Black Tongue

It's a huge point sink, but that is what a deathstar is. Nothing like getting off 3 bubos a turn :)

Novrain
12-04-2010, 13:19
unfortunately no you cant do that. The +1CR rune can only be taken once per banner.

Wrong actually.

You can have it up to two times on a unit standard, and up to three on a BSB.
Tho I think one of the best Dwarven deathstars would be:

25 Hammerers with FC, MRo Grungni
Lord on Oathstone and personal runes
BSB with MroFear, RoBattle, RoStoicism

This unit is Immune to fear and terror, has a 5+ ward sv against shooting and MM's within 6", Causes Fear, has no flanks, MR1 and is leadership 10/stubborn 9 and unit strength 50.
It has SCR 3 from ranks, 1 from Unit standard, 1 from BSB, 1 from BSB rune.
That means any unit under US50 has to cause 6 unsaved wounds or break basically, ouch!

shartmatau
12-04-2010, 14:09
Novrain, you are incorrect. The description of the Rune of Battle (+1CR) explicitly states that multiples of this rune have no affect. So while it is possible to buy the rune multiple times per banner, only one of the runes will add +1CR.

Leogun_91
12-04-2010, 14:41
Novrain, you are incorrect. The description of the Rune of Battle (+1CR) explicitly states that multiples of this rune have no affect. So while it is possible to buy the rune multiple times per banner, only one of the runes will add +1CR.That's correct, just as you can turn a handgun into a handweapon by inscribing runes on it you can add runes with no effect to your banners.

Roarschach
12-04-2010, 15:17
A unit of saurus oldbloods and scarvets on cold ones. All your hero choices in that unit, in higher point games(I mean very high) you could make the entire unit compromised by heroes, and use horned ones for the extra move. Obviously the cavalry banner goes with it. I'm sure you people can figure out why it's unconventional for a lizardmen army to not take magic.

Niibl
12-04-2010, 15:54
Throgg the Troll king, 15 trolls and any hero I feel like on mount with a troll sized base. Rest of the army put into other monsters.

That's honestly the only deathstar I'd ever want to try out.

Sadly there is no mount with a troll sized base, not since the 50x50mm base was added to the range.
(Thats why I also see problems with w3rm's Ork-on-boar-with-Trolls variant)
An older model might work though (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:Mounted_berzerker_1st_edition.JPG):evilgrin:: cheese::angel:

w3rm
12-04-2010, 16:03
You do know that they dont have to be on the same sized base to join a unit?

Lord of Skulls
12-04-2010, 16:22
I have two I want to try:

20 or so Inner Circle Knights with the Warbanner, joined by a Captain with the Griffin Banner, a Warrior Priest and possibly an Elector Count. That should give you 6 ranks, outnumber (US ~50) and two banners, for a total of 10 static combat resolution. Add to this all the lance attacks with hatred, and you should be able to kill something ;)

The other involves Archaon, a BsB with the Banner of the Gods in a large unit of Slaanesh Knights with the Rapturous standard. Maybe add an Exalted Champion or two if the points allow :P

Niibl
12-04-2010, 17:22
In other words, just pretend the
character’s base is the same as the other models in
the unit (for foot characters), or equal to a multiple
of the bases of the other models in the unit (for
mounted or large models joining units of smaller
bases…). This will make the formation a little
messier, but it’s normally quite self-evident.

Found it. Good to know.

Sooo...an exalted Hero ABS with mark of Khorne and banner of rage placed in a unit of trolls would be ok then (no worrying about stupidity). :)

mistrmoon
12-04-2010, 17:47
during a legendary battle game i used a 10x10 (100) strong unit of dwarf warriors with hand weapon shield and threw grombrindal in there to make them unbreakable, I then proceeded to sit there and laugh whenever an opponent was stupid enough to charge it.

Woodsman
12-04-2010, 19:18
can you put all 5 Brett chars in a single unit? Surely that would be worth a small giggle.

soots
13-04-2010, 00:25
I dont consider units with BSBs with expensive banners deathstars. Theyre too vulnerable.

It would be the first thing i attack and theyre generally a lot softer (plus the opponent usually has a false sense of security and doesnt realise it)

Im more worried about units with inherant stubborn/unbreakable rules.

Zaustus
13-04-2010, 02:17
Found it. Good to know.

Sooo...an exalted Hero ABS with mark of Khorne and banner of rage placed in a unit of trolls would be ok then (no worrying about stupidity). :)

Well, they'll be stupid on Ld8 using the BSB's leadership, but being ItP does not negate Stupidity. See BRB p.53, the "Immune to Psychology" section.

If you just want the extra leadership, you could put a mounted Sorcerer in the Troll unit, since even if they fail Stupidity he can still cast.

Roarschach
13-04-2010, 18:12
How about as many slaverats as you can fit into a unit. I forget if they have a max size, but if they don't you could have an obscene amount of them. Other rat units can substitute. Have a warlord on a mount so it has US3 and can't be sniped, plus a bsb nearby and you have permanent Ld 10 from the sheer number of ranks you could possibly have, and against base Ld tests you have the warlords Ld always because he cant be targeted separately because of being US3 right? and protect the flanks and you have a unit that will bring many laughs to you and your opponent. I don't play skaven(yet) so I don't know if slaves have a max size, or can even be joined by a warlord because they're just shabby slaves, but if so would be as many slaves as you can legally have in a unit, could possibly be 500+ slaves in a unit, would be the funniest thing ever.

Hell, anything with that many models in it would be fantastic.

jesterking
13-04-2010, 18:57
any number of Full Command Minos w/ extra hand weapons accompanied by Gorebull BSB w/ Beast Banner and Doombull w/ axes of Khorgor is quite devastating.
just let the Blood Kine takes up any challenge and let Gorebull and Doombull kill everything else.

i've seen 3 minos and a doombull dished out 12 S7 damage on a charge. the Doombull is on S6 with Axes of Khorgor and Gouge Tusk (armor piercing).

w3rm
14-04-2010, 02:45
50 rat swarms...

Adran
14-04-2010, 07:27
20 Rhinox riders.

You could always support them with 20 Maneaters, equiped so you can choose which weapon choice you want. I'd probably give 10 Brace of Hand guns, 5 GW and 5 cathayn longswords, can put out the shooty hurt as well, and a quick manouver gets you the +4 CR, and the attacks of your choice to the front.

Grupax
14-04-2010, 09:51
50 rat swarms...

they're capped at 10

darkstar
14-04-2010, 12:23
10 skink fighters with a banner,
Priest on engine steg with the diadem.
Chief on ancient steg with steggie stick.

That averages 12 S6 impact hits per charge, with 9 S6 attacks and 11 S2 attacks.
Top that off with 3 ranks, a banner, and after those attacks, probably outnumber by a terror causing enemy.

A bargain for just shy of 900 points. Just make sure you watch those flanks.

Kuolema
15-04-2010, 16:06
Vampire lord
Dread Lance
The Cadaverous Cuirass
Black Periapt
Red Furry
Dread Knight
Walking Death

Vampire BSB
The Drakenhof Banner
Dread Knight
Walking Death

Blood Knights
19 Blood knights with full command and the Flag of Blood Keep


Deployed 7 wide and in 3 ranks, scr of 7 =],2+ armor save, 4+ ward vs shooting and regen

jesterking
15-04-2010, 17:41
10 skink fighters with a banner,
Priest on engine steg with the diadem.
Chief on ancient steg with steggie stick.

That averages 12 S6 impact hits per charge, with 9 S6 attacks and 11 S2 attacks.
Top that off with 3 ranks, a banner, and after those attacks, probably outnumber by a terror causing enemy.

A bargain for just shy of 900 points. Just make sure you watch those flanks.

with the steggies joining the skink fighter, they'll have to move at M5 (IIRC) which means they'll get charged easily. and with only 5 SCR (3 ranks, banner and outnumber) i don 't think that's a safe bet ;)

mistrmoon
15-04-2010, 19:06
20 Rhinox riders.


Me and a friend who owns 6 had considered this but the unit caps at 3.

Woodsman
15-04-2010, 21:52
Vampire lord
Dread Lance
The Cadaverous Cuirass
Black Periapt
Red Furry
Dread Knight
Walking Death

Vampire BSB
The Drakenhof Banner
Dread Knight
Walking Death

Blood Knights
19 Blood knights with full command and the Flag of Blood Keep


Deployed 7 wide and in 3 ranks, scr of 7 =],2+ armor save, 4+ ward vs shooting and regen

Surely you could lose a rank of blood knights, they're going to mulch through absolutely anything anyway one extra rank makes no difference.

Are they not frenzy? Too easy to redirect and avoid to be useful if so.

Kuolema
15-04-2010, 23:56
Surely you could lose a rank of blood knights, they're going to mulch through absolutely anything anyway one extra rank makes no difference.

Are they not frenzy? Too easy to redirect and avoid to be useful if so.

That is kind of why it's in the unconventional deathstar thread and not the army list section. x3

In a 2250 the only other things in your army are 3 core units of 10 skellies/ghouls or 20 zombies and then two units of five dire wolves and a unit of 3 fell bats.

Yeah you could drop 7 knights and have another 385 points left to play with, but that makes your death star much easier to bring under half strength.
If you where trying to make a competitive list instead of just a fun death star then yeah the extra rank of blood knights isn't any use, thou I'm not sure how you can make a competitive list with nearly 1500 points in one frenzied unit, the nearly 1500 points is after ditching 7 knights, the whole unit is like 1850ish with all 19 knights.

Yeahs they are frenzied and can be baited and redirected as much as your opponent wants after he kills your screens, which is why it is just not competitive. All it is a death star, not an easy one to kill if i do say so myself, they won't even crumble if you kill the lord. xD

Frenzied blood knights are just insane, 3 ws5 str 7 attacks on the charge and even if you charge them they have 3 ws5 s5 attacks. Oh and their horses throw out 2 ws3 s4 attacks each. The lord has 4 attacks at s7 that hit automatically and gets another attack for each wound he causes.

So yeah, not competitive at all, just fun. =]

w3rm
16-04-2010, 00:45
Horror Star

HoT with Power Vortex

HoT with Hellfire banner and power vortex

50 Horros with FC and banner of sorcery.

darkstar
16-04-2010, 12:29
with the steggies joining the skink fighter, they'll have to move at M5 (IIRC) which means they'll get charged easily. and with only 5 SCR (3 ranks, banner and outnumber) i don 't think that's a safe bet ;)
M6, all in that unit are M6. and this thread isn't about the most effective death stars. It's unconventional, and it sounds pretty effective to me.

Also, safe bets are for girly-men. :D

teddet
16-04-2010, 16:27
12 TK Chariots (max unit size), with TK on chariot of fire, kitted out with the spear that adds wounds back to the unit, and TP on chariot with Flail. If you want more, add BSB on chariot with the banner that protects against shooting, and full command to the unit (with the banner of +1 to hit).

That could be nasty.

shartmatau
16-04-2010, 18:35
12 TK Chariots (max unit size), with TK on chariot of fire, kitted out with the spear that adds wounds back to the unit, and TP on chariot with Flail. If you want more, add BSB on chariot with the banner that protects against shooting, and full command to the unit (with the banner of +1 to hit).

That could be nasty.

That does sound nasty. Although my Dwarven Bolt Throwers would still love to see it on the board. Cheers.

w3rm
17-04-2010, 01:50
Or better yet instead of a king put Settra in it!!

shortlegs
19-04-2010, 05:12
What do people mean exactly by the term deathstar? When it was first used I thought it referred to a huge, expensive unit that is very powerful and decimates enemy units?

for example, a 100-strong zombie/gnoblar/giant rats unit plus characters is huge and expensive, but is it a deathstar? Doesn't seem to bring much beyond the static res of 3 ranks and outnumber.

CaptainFaramir
19-04-2010, 13:55
Deathstar (n.) 1. (Coll. An IBM DeskStar 60 or 75GB hard drive, which had a bug in the firmware which could cause massive, spontaneous data loss. Shocking to people, since IBM is generally known for having reliable, though expensive, hardware.

2. Gaming A huge point sink unit designed to be effectively unstoppable for a very specific purpose, and impossible to deal with for some armies. Loss of the Deathstar unit will inevitably lead to a major loss if not a massacre.

100-strong zombie unit with uber-characters will be impossible for some armies to deal with. Can't shoot it, can't magic it. In close combat, uber-characters (should) destroy a frontal attacker, and outnumber with fear outbreaks. In the event of a flank, the sheer number of zombies mean that, after CR has caused some to crumble, the unit will still exist, characters can move within the unit and destroy you. Plus one dice spam can keep those zombies coming...

It's unconvential, but it is a deathstar. Potentially game-winning (because at 100 models it could literally march across the board, with no flanks and only fliers could avoid it), but opposite the right army, it will be utterly destroyed and thus lose the game for the controlling player.

danny-d-b
19-04-2010, 14:08
erm caraters can't join zombies

CaptainFaramir
19-04-2010, 14:51
erm characters can't join zombies

Hmph. Rule Nazis ruining all my fun, grumble, grumble

w3rm
19-04-2010, 16:12
Deathstars are used either to get a massacre or a draw. Either you avoid them and draw or you engage and lose. You can try and plink them off with shooting or magic but they are generally strong against both. T

Sarael
19-04-2010, 16:58
100 skirmishing brettonian archers, damsel with some kind of MR thing, somewhere around 900 points. Difficult to shoot because of skirmishing, difficult to magic because of MR, and you don't want to charge it because of 100 shots of stand and shoot. And, when placed in the middle of the board, they can shoot at anything which isn't behind terrain. And, they have a mage in them to blast you, or bog you down, or whatever those damsels can do with their magic. Probably the most annoying thing I've ever played against. It's the reason I run two wraith units standard in my VCs because they are immune to it.

ColShaw
19-04-2010, 18:10
100 skirmishing brettonian archers, damsel with some kind of MR thing, somewhere around 900 points. Difficult to shoot because of skirmishing, difficult to magic because of MR, and you don't want to charge it because of 100 shots of stand and shoot. And, when placed in the middle of the board, they can shoot at anything which isn't behind terrain. And, they have a mage in them to blast you, or bog you down, or whatever those damsels can do with their magic. Probably the most annoying thing I've ever played against. It's the reason I run two wraith units standard in my VCs because they are immune to it.

Wow... 100 archers, huh? I like it.

Of course, suppose they ARE standing & shooting against a charge of, let's say, Chaos Knights. Most of them are going to shoot from over 50% range, so will be hitting on 6s. Wounding on 5s, saving on 2+, so that'll be about 20 hits (assuming maybe 10-20 archers hitting 5+), 7 wounds, and a single dead Knight. Or, if you get to multi-charge it, the archers are only standing and shooting against a single unit, so the other one gets there. And once in combat, this unit is dead, dead, dead.

But a wacky, fun concept!

shortlegs
20-04-2010, 01:53
100 archers. Big undead blocks. Big clanrat/giant rat blocks. All these are unconventionally BIG units, but are they deathstars? Do you automatically lose when you engage them like other more conventional deathstars?

An overly big, 100-strong unit, durability aside, does NOT bring anything more to combat than say a 30-strong block that already has static CR from 3 ranks and outnumber. And any unit that can win against a 30-strong block will similarly win against a 100-strong one.

To be a deathstar, the unit needs to:
- have decent speed or magic-movement ability (the reason why many regard chosen deathstars as easily avoidable)
- failing that, they should have ranged ability to prevent the enemy from hiding from it
- psychology protection, either ItP or at least immune to fear
- ways to mitigate ranged damage, either by being inherently tough, by virtue of rules/items (eg skirmishing shades with hotek) or by being able to undo damage (like VC)
- being able to hit like a ton of bricks in combat, to ensure that if the enemy engages you, you will crush him. :evilgrin:

Unconventionally big/expensive units do not equate a deathstar..Not every unit off the shelf can be a deathstar, conventional or not... ;)

At least that is how I see it.. :angel:

scarvet
20-04-2010, 04:28
In the Eternal Guard thread there is a talk of WE Eternal Guard death star, does anyone know who that works?

nobsb
20-04-2010, 05:07
100 archers. Big undead blocks. Big clanrat/giant rat blocks. All these are unconventionally BIG units, but are they deathstars? Do you automatically lose when you engage them like other more conventional deathstars?

An overly big, 100-strong unit, durability aside, does NOT bring anything more to combat than say a 30-strong block that already has static CR from 3 ranks and outnumber. And any unit that can win against a 30-strong block will similarly win against a 100-strong one.

To be a deathstar, the unit needs to:
- have decent speed or magic-movement ability (the reason why many regard chosen deathstars as easily avoidable)
- failing that, they should have ranged ability to prevent the enemy from hiding from it
- psychology protection, either ItP or at least immune to fear
- ways to mitigate ranged damage, either by being inherently tough, by virtue of rules/items (eg skirmishing shades with hotek) or by being able to undo damage (like VC)
- being able to hit like a ton of bricks in combat, to ensure that if the enemy engages you, you will crush him. :evilgrin:

Unconventionally big/expensive units do not equate a deathstar..Not every unit off the shelf can be a deathstar, conventional or not... ;)

At least that is how I see it.. :angel:

I didn't know it had to be fast to be a deathstar? Hence the word star, things revolve around it looking for a way in and finding none find death. The Chosen deathstar isn't designed to run people down, but allow the casters to throw magic around like Obama does stimulus money.

shortlegs
20-04-2010, 08:05
I've always thought the deathstar was a simple reference to Star Wars? And not so much about things revolving around the unit? :p

But nice analogy on the stmulus money.. :D

Woodsman
20-04-2010, 10:55
In the Eternal Guard thread there is a talk of WE Eternal Guard death star, does anyone know who that works?

Guy called King Leonidas (sp) on a woodelf forum(I forget which) built an army based around the Theban band.

Two units of eternal guard,
one was 40 strong the other bigger I think. Rhymers harp to give the big block a ward and two characters in each.

Don't remember the details so it's probably not much help!

N1AK
20-04-2010, 12:19
27 Minotaurs with AHW's, FC
Doombull with Blackened Plate, Crown Of Horns, AHW
Gorebull BSB with The Beast Banner, Shield, Heavy Armor
Gorebull with Pelt of the Shadowgave, AHW


No Shamans, no scrolls & no MR (or did I miss it)? An entire army in one frenzied unit? I'd be pretty embarrased if I ever lost to this build given that the best it should ever do is wipeout a couple of diverting units.

Might be hard to beat it with a couple of armies, but only because taking sufficient wounds off the block may prove tricky, the majority will be able wipe it out at range, or neuter it at range and smash the rest with a decent charge.

Mullitron
20-04-2010, 13:04
I just see targets i would love to roll an 11 or 12 with on the strength roll for gateway :P . Anyone had any success with a chosen deathstar? Any details on set up etc?

BigbyWolf
20-04-2010, 13:13
I just see targets i would love to roll an 11 or 12 with on the strength roll for gateway :P . Anyone had any success with a chosen deathstar? Any details on set up etc?

Mmm, Gateway...the dispel scrolls best friend...

The Chosen Deathstar tends to be a unit of Chosen (Duh...) with MoT, Blasted Standard and led by Sigvald plus any other characters you want...