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Uriain
09-04-2010, 03:53
Hey all..

Just wanted to throw this out there, I am having a game tomorrow evening its a Darkelf vs Skaven (im the DE player).

I have the Ring of Hotek on a Unit of CoK's to help sheild them from magic as they act as a flank hammer.

What happens when someone casts a spell like Black Horror, or Skorch, where you cast the spell ,then place a template afterwards?

Do you:

1) Cast spell, if successful with doubles, try and dispel/allow to be cast, place template, and if placed within the Ring's "miscast" zone, they suffer a miscast

or

2) Cast Spell, if successful with doubles, Try and dispel/allow to be cast, Place template, and if placed within the Ring's "miscast zone" the spell works normally.

I know this question will come up because I know my friend will try and spell my CoK's to death.

Thanks in advance for responses

T10
09-04-2010, 07:04
2.

-t10

tdh6002
09-04-2010, 07:18
but does that mean you cant use magic res againt spells of those kinds?

Atrahasis
09-04-2010, 07:48
2.

-t10

Nothing in the spell's descriptions suggest that the target is chosen after casting.

Black Horror and Scorch are just as vulnerable to the ring as Pit of Shades, for example.

Kalandros
09-04-2010, 08:00
Rules for casting spells are very clear:

YOU TARGET BEFORE YOU CAST! O:

Area of effect spells ('within 12" of the wizard') will only trigger the ring if the caster is within range of the ring itself, not the ring's unit.

Black Horror's template must be placed after you have successfully cast the spell, but you must declare your intended target first (IE: I'll place it over these Wraiths and Skeletons)

The SkaerKrow
09-04-2010, 12:02
Spells that do not specify a target until after they have been cast (like Black Horror), or spells that do not have a specific target (like Wind of Undeath) are not affected by the Ring of Hotek (unless of course the caster is within 12" of the Ring of Hotek). This is covered in the Dark Elf FAQ.

Dundaz
09-04-2010, 13:17
What happens if you cast and roll double 6's? Is it still considered a miscast even though you cast with irresitable force?

Necromancy Black
09-04-2010, 13:23
Always, miscast always comes before IF.

Also, Black Horror says you place a template any where in range if it's successfully cast. So the answer is 2.

Kalandros
09-04-2010, 17:28
Spells that do not specify a target until after they have been cast (like Black Horror), or spells that do not have a specific target (like Wind of Undeath) are not affected by the Ring of Hotek (unless of course the caster is within 12" of the Ring of Hotek). This is covered in the Dark Elf FAQ.

By the letter of the rules, the target (or intended target in some cases) MUST be done before rolling dice.

Atrahasis
09-04-2010, 17:52
Also, Black Horror says you place a template any where in range if it's successfully cast. So the answer is 2.Black Horror doesn't include the words "if successfully cast".

Nothing exempts it from the normal process of declaring the target of the spell before rolling dice.

T10
11-04-2010, 13:41
I wouldn't be happy about my opponent simply placing the template before I got the chance to dispel. Anything touched by the template must test or suffer damage. That, too, lacks the "if successfully cast" statement...

-T10

Atrahasis
11-04-2010, 14:04
Would you argue that Celestial Shield grants a 4+ ward save before dispel attempts are made?

Targets are declared before casting rolls, and effects are resolved after dispel attempts. The template must be placed before measuring.

T10
11-04-2010, 14:58
I don't need to argue how the Celestial Shield works. You say the Black Horror template is placed to determine which models are affected, I point out that any models touched are affected. In both cases the "if successfull cast" statement is missing.

How would i chose to play it? I'd place the template, roll to cast, wait for the dispel to fail and then measure to see if the template was correctly placed.

-T10

Necromancy Black
11-04-2010, 23:29
Black Horror doesn't include the words "if successfully cast".

Whoops, stuff that one up! :s