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Duke Dev
15-04-2010, 12:31
i need help brets' magic because it sucks

Artinam
15-04-2010, 12:59
Could you define your question better, what do you want to do with it.

Offensive Bretonian Magic is indeed very mediocre and they now lack any tool to booster their magic outside powerstones. Their other weakness if the lack of available Magic Lores. Beasts is a very nice supportive Lore.

So my advice, load up on power stones or use the Fey Enchantress together with some Damsels to have a decent (but not overwhelming) magic base).

Defensively Bretonnian casters are much more better with Scrolls, the Silver Mirror and the Chalice of Malfleur.

Malorian
15-04-2010, 13:31
i need help brets' magic because it sucks

Best thing to do... don't take it.

As Artinam said it's pretty weak (remember that a lot of the useful spells need LOS which you don't have in the middle of a lance fomation).

If you are talking about magic defence then I'd suggest a single scroll caddie or nothing at all. You should be charging by turn 2 and really they shouldn't be doing that much damage to you in that time (almost certainly not enough to be worth the cost of several scroll caddies).

ColShaw
15-04-2010, 14:14
I actually like to use a pair of Level 1s. One hangs out with Knights, the other chills with the Peasants. Since I run characters on foot a lot (I'm weird that way), Bear's Anger can come in really handy. With two Level 1s, you can use all 4 power dice every turn, two each. And this gives two of your units Magic Resistance, which can be nice.

I like to give my Damsel with the Men-at-Arms the Prayer Icon of Quenelles and Chalice of Malfleur; the Chalice is decent magic defense, and the Icon can make Men-at-Arms noticeably better.

Woodsman
15-04-2010, 14:37
I think you may have chosen the wrong army if you wanted magic offense. Having said that I have caused some damage with the comet at times.

meneroth
15-04-2010, 15:41
Icon of quenelles on men at arms....interesting. personally i run 2 level ones with the silver mirror, the chalice and dispel scroll. pretty sturdy magic defence actually. but yea, dont expect to be a powerful magic army, and unless your going with the pesant horde army dont waste good hero/lord slots on flimsy damsels when you could be spending them on the fairly effective brettonian heroes.

Woodsman
15-04-2010, 23:13
Ok I feel I was a little hasty and harsh, I have played magic heavy Brets and tey can do... ok. I really think you may be missing the point of this army.

With 3 Lvl 2s and a Lvl4 we're still only guaranteed one magic missile. All our Lores are more focussed on buffing.
This makes offensive magic hard. At the best each level two can have two missiles and your lvl4 can have 3. so the possibility is there.

Buffing magic can be very useful for Bretts and most people will ignore it, especially if you can threaten them with a comet they will save DD for this bad boy.

Life can be great against gunlines, beyond that somewhat less effective. On scenary heavy boards this comes into its own a bit more and against Welfs!

Beasts can be great but, is less effective certain armies (dwarrows, skaven etc) so think before you take it. Also brets have few foot charcaters to take advantage of its No. 1 spell. Beast cowers can kill those big flyers and the bolt thrower is also handy.

Heavens will work in almost any situation and the comet can be a game breaker (see mal's obligated suicide report), the fear of this is generally more usefull than the spell itself it draws out dd and lets the buffing spells be cast.

I think brets lack the items of other races, ways of easily generating dice, bound spells of value, lore variety, to really make it in the magic phase. Too many armies can generate enough dispel dice to laugh off the offensive magic and extra lances are probably as effective as the unit buffs. Helfs, Daemons, WoC, Delfs, LM will all do it far better.

phoenixguard09
16-04-2010, 06:58
Speaking in my friend's defence he doesn't misunderstand the army. In fact for a beginner he is quite skilled. Or maybe just damned lucky. His Grail Knights have been killed by VC Bat Swarms but every thing else in the army did well. :)

His problems with magic stem from the fact that our group plays:

Me: High Elves usually.
Ushabti1: Tomb Kings, Vampires or High Elves. Occasionaly Chaos Dwarves too.
Mr.Milky: Dark Elves.
Lady Darkmoon: Dark Elves or Wood Elves.

My brother and another friend both play exclusively combat armies. (Warriors of Khorne and Orcs.) So they don't count.

So you see his magical problems stem from how best to confront these armies. His Magic in itself is pretty bad but hey Brets aren't Elves.

Sinsigel
16-04-2010, 10:26
In fact for a beginner he is quite skilled. Or maybe just damned lucky. His Grail Knights have been killed by VC Bat Swarms.


......What?:eek:

Stumpy
16-04-2010, 12:41
Doesn't matter. Indure the magic, get charging. See if they can indure a lance as well as you can endure some spells.

phoenixguard09
16-04-2010, 13:14
......What?:eek:

That was some very bad rolling on his part. Instead of blowing through the 2 bases like they weren't even there he caused 2 wounds before losing all 3 GKs. The sad thing was of the return attacks, 4 hit, 3 wounded and all the saves failed. :wtf:

Woodsman
16-04-2010, 15:43
Speaking in my friend's defence he doesn't misunderstand the army.

His problems with magic stem from the fact that our group plays:

Me: High Elves usually.
Ushabti1: Tomb Kings, Vampires or High Elves. Occasionaly Chaos Dwarves too.
Mr.Milky: Dark Elves.
Lady Darkmoon: Dark Elves or Wood Elves.



So you see his magical problems stem from how best to confront these armies. His Magic in itself is pretty bad but hey Brets aren't Elves.

So in his understanding what does he want Bret magic to do? You can't compete with any of those for offensive magic if they go magic heavy. However two level 1's with a scroll apiece and a mirror gives some MR to his important units and prevents those army killer spells. He should be in combat by turn two maybe three, that's what brets do best.

Alternatively take some PK and mage hunt.

Vamps can cause real problems 'cause fear means you can fail (far too many) charges, although KE will help with that. Their most annoying spell's can be spammed and just waste dd and scrolls.

As has been mentioned you could ignore magic and out another lance down to dish out some violence or invest in some skirmishing archers to shoot down the puny elves and absorbe some the firepower themselves.

Tauren
16-04-2010, 16:16
No offense, but a brettonian balanced list built around shooting, war machines, a level 4 and 2 level 2's all being astral magic (lightning magic missiles and comet), etc. A balanced list including excellent peasant infantry and several knight units as heavy backup can play viably.

Flaming arrows deal with regen large monsters. Magic is a powerful tool against big blocks of expensive stuff. Drop a comet on any large block and they will be upset.

The issue is that most people play brets as knights, knights, and more knights and that isn't the only build.

Your peasants are amazing, don't cause panic to your knights. You have shooting to deal with large regen mobs. You have cheap numbers. You have warmachines, heavy hitting knights, heavy hitting fast moving flying knights, peasant yeomen. All of which are amazing... Magic is an additional tool and in a balanced list to be honest heavens magic isn't bad.

fenrisnorth
16-04-2010, 22:27
Only lord level wizards can use lore of heavens, heroes are stuck with beasts and life.

I find brettonian shooting to be very overrated. The low BS on peasants combined with the randomness factor of the trebuchet, not to mention the giving up the first turn, means that bretonnian shooting rarely makes up its point value.

I find the best bretonnian army is simply as many small units of knights as you can afford.

phoenixguard09
17-04-2010, 03:50
So in his understanding what does he want Bret magic to do? You can't compete with any of those for offensive magic if they go magic heavy. However two level 1's with a scroll apiece and a mirror gives some MR to his important units and prevents those army killer spells. He should be in combat by turn two maybe three, that's what brets do best.

Alternatively take some PK and mage hunt.

Vamps can cause real problems 'cause fear means you can fail (far too many) charges, although KE will help with that. Their most annoying spell's can be spammed and just waste dd and scrolls.

As has been mentioned you could ignore magic and out another lance down to dish out some violence or invest in some skirmishing archers to shoot down the puny elves and absorbe some the firepower themselves.

I'd imagine that would be more or less what he was after.

Duke Dev
19-04-2010, 13:09
thank you for your help and some of not so much

Null_Sheen
21-04-2010, 06:31
Aim your lances at blocks where their mages are hiding and attack them (do not challenge as they will hide in the back). Deliberatly have your knights attack the mage killing it.

Peggies are good if they choose to start to run mages out of the infantry blocks.

It is the quickest way to stop the magic dominance.

Duke Dev
10-10-2010, 11:12
cool thanks for all your help

Surgency
10-10-2010, 15:39
That was some very bad rolling on his part. Instead of blowing through the 2 bases like they weren't even there he caused 2 wounds before losing all 3 GKs. The sad thing was of the return attacks, 4 hit, 3 wounded and all the saves failed. :wtf:

My Lord and BSB, along with a full unit of KoTR fled from a standard block of TK skeletons on the turn they charged. I'm convinced that Brettonian combat training is lacking

russellmoo
10-10-2010, 21:13
You could also try a lvl 4 w/ life plus the verdant heart and a lvl 1 or 2- since you now have a +5 just throw 2 or 3 dice at every life spell you have every magic phase, start with the lowest casting value and work your way up- something will get through, if you roll poorly say only 5 dice have your low lvl wizard throw all the dice at her one spell-

Personally I think- Bret's top out at a lvl 4 and either 2 lvl 1's or 1 lvl 2, otherwise you don't have the dice-

Second- try bringing 3 lvl 1 or 2's, one with a dispel scroll, one with the chalice of malfleur, and the other with the silver mirror- your goal is not really to cast magic but to stop your opponent's magic phase- with 2 dispel scroll's plus an additional dispel dice you should be able to hold back your opponents magic until turn 3 or 4-

P.S. Malorian- like your all Cav bret's- peasants have consistently failed me and I am working towards an all cavalry build-