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kaubin
17-04-2010, 14:53
Just curious about what you consider is the fastest and most maneuverable army in 40k, and which one can use the movement phase to best effect.

shaso_iceborn
17-04-2010, 14:54
Dark eldar (currently and hopefully in the future as well)

player21
17-04-2010, 14:57
Depends both eldar are up there, with me giving craftworld the edge. But orks can be as fast as grease lightning.

Radium
17-04-2010, 14:58
Both brands of Eldar and Orks.

Bondoid3
17-04-2010, 15:00
Dark Eldar have Open Topped Fast Skimming Transports.
Some of their units can have 12" charges.
They have fleet.

Wych squad
12" movement
2" disembark
6" fleet
12" charge

Thats pretty nasty

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 15:06
Dark eldar.
Eldar and tau share second place, with eldar being faster, but tau more mobile.

Thud
17-04-2010, 15:09
Eldar.

Can anyone else move everything in their army 36" per turn? No, they can not.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 15:12
No one wants to move their entire army 36, because it means no shooting, and being within melta range of everything the opponent has in their turn.

Blinging your skimmers like that is comparable to getting the speed shoes in Sonic.

Chucklemoney
17-04-2010, 15:16
Dark Eldar, by turn two both players occupy the same side of the table.

BobTheZombie
17-04-2010, 15:19
Evil Sunz have to be contenders, with a lot of cheap troops in cheap fast transport, backed up by Deffkoptas, buggies and bikes. There's all that Eldar nonsense, of course, but Orks can be up there with them.

DJ3
17-04-2010, 15:44
Dark Eldar, by turn two both players occupy the same side of the table.

Daemons do this on turn 1!

And then immediately forget how to be fast.

PrimeMinisterSinister
17-04-2010, 16:02
Necrons are way faster than people think.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 16:06
I know.
People understimate how fast necrons are removed from the table.

DarkstarSabre
17-04-2010, 16:06
Hmm.

Dark Eldar, Eldar and Tau take the top 3.

Blood Angels and Orks are contenders.

IG can be built heavily toward speed with Valks and Vendettas.

Tyranids unfortunately forgot how to be fast.

kaubin
17-04-2010, 16:19
So the Eldars are the fastest for flat out speed, and is tau better for mobility and more dependent on movement?
Or are Tau just a little slower than the other two eldar armies?

Simo429
17-04-2010, 16:20
after seeing them in action (through an entire proxy army which i really do dislike but thats another debate) blood angels have to be up there

Urban Shaman Commando
17-04-2010, 16:24
I think the overall fastest army is Dark Eldar. Nearly everything they have is either Fleet, a fast skimmer or a jetbike and some units can get 12" charge.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 16:26
Tau can be almost as fast if you run with your battlesuits.

Tau gets a bonus move in their assault phase, and pack skimmers - some of which are fast. All eldar vehicles are fast skimmers, including transports, and units that can't take them are either bikes or jump infantry.

So eldar are on you right away, but can't jump around as they please, while tau can be on you very quickly, but are more likely to advance in a methodical fashion, as well as jump around as they please.

Blood angels are very fast, but still slower than both types of eldar and tau.

Urban Shaman Commando
17-04-2010, 16:52
Tau can be almost as fast if you run with your battlesuits.

Tau gets a bonus move in their assault phase, and pack skimmers - some of which are fast. All eldar vehicles are fast skimmers, including transports, and units that can't take them are either bikes or jump infantry.

So eldar are on you right away, but can't jump around as they please, while tau can be on you very quickly, but are more likely to advance in a methodical fashion, as well as jump around as they please.

Blood angels are very fast, but still slower than both types of eldar and tau.

That's true, but I don't think there is much point in running with a Battlesuit and it's still only 6"+d6"+6" inches. A squad of Wyches in a Raider (or even a single Lord with drugs) gets Raider's movement + 2" + D6" + 12" assault and Running doesn't cripple their performance much. Naturaly the distance is much less if you don't assault. Running with a Battlesuit means it won't shoot - running with DE means in most cases that you'll be sooner in combat. Eldar can fleet too and they have exceptionaly fast vechiles but they are not open topped. Eldar are fast at moving around in the battlefield while Dark Eldar are fast at getting in contact with their enemy.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 17:10
That's why dark eldar remain the fastest, completely uncontested.
Don't forget they can move 12 with their transports, get out within 2 of the vehicle, fleet d6, then charge 6 inches.

As noted above, some of their units can charge 12.

Thoth62
17-04-2010, 17:30
No one wants to move their entire army 36, because it means no shooting, and being within melta range of everything the opponent has in their turn.

Seriously? Meltas are typically only 12" range. If you can move 36, how is you'll end up in melta range of everything? That's a rediculous statement.

Fithos
17-04-2010, 17:35
I'm gonna go with Speed Freaks.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 17:36
Your board is most likely 48 inches long.
You can move 36 with your vehicles, then don't get to do anything in your shooting phase.
Your opponent is likely in a transport, and can move 12.
His meltaguns have a range of 12.

BladeWalker
17-04-2010, 17:41
Dark Eldar get the edge due to increased charge ranges. Eldar are the overall fastest throughout the game, but Dark Eldar combine speed with long charges to create giant threat areas.

MajorWesJanson
17-04-2010, 19:06
1 Dark Eldar/Eldar
2 Blood Angels
3 Orks/IG
4 Tau

Vrigor
17-04-2010, 21:08
So can dark eldar/eldar get to melta range turn 1 like IG? Valk/vendetta, scout move 24", 6" move turn 1, drop troops, fire guns, troops fire

sorry not full 24" scout, just enough to get to 12" from enemy.

NeoMonolith
17-04-2010, 21:28
If they want to move flat-out, they can't dismount, so they'll be standing around inside their skimmers for a turn. In eldar's case, this means you'll have an invincible skimmer in your lines.

However, neither of those two armies really rely on their versions of meltaguns to take out armor.
Dark eldar gets lances for 5 points, which they can take two of in pretty much every unit, and vanilla eldar gets twin-linked lances on their transports - if they feel like it.

jspyd3rx
17-04-2010, 22:37
When playing someone new in our store, my evil suns beg to come out. 36 warbikes, 15 deffkoptas and 10 nob bikers with gutsmek. Between scout moves with deff koptas and turbo with warbikes, new players will freak with everything in their face turn 2. I don't do this so much any more since I mix my army up now for more balance. It doesn't matter how fast you can get across the board if there is nothing that will beneft you from it. Tau trying to get in my face is laughable. Though I do have to say that the top players in my group can destroy this gimmeck army easily. They play SW and Eldar.

jesusjohn
17-04-2010, 23:05
Eldar/Dark Eldar, Orks and Tau. I think there may be a consensus at the moment for the top 4

Dasqueek-Master Assassin
17-04-2010, 23:07
mono slannesh deamons?

kaubin
18-04-2010, 02:19
Thanks for all the comments and advice.

do armies with a lot of 'hit and run' help a great deal with mobility as a whole throughout the game?

Znail
18-04-2010, 02:36
I dont see why Tau is even mentioned in this context? Their tanks may be able to shoot guns like they are fast, but their actual speed isnt more then the normal 12" tops. The same with the Battlesuits, they may be able to shoot then move again, but the total moved isnt any more then a normal Jump pack. So they are at best average speed.

Dark Elder, Eldar, Blood Angels, Orcs and Imperial Guard are the only ones that can make entire armies faster then 12". IG and Orcs are somewhat limited in fast options, so rank lower then the others. Dark Eldar and Eldar are at the top with their limitless Fast Skimmer options. Thus my ranking would be:

Dark Eldar
Eldar
Blood Angels
Imperial Guard
Orcs

Ozybonza
18-04-2010, 03:05
Wouldn't it have to be an all bike/jetbike army? Many of the previously mentioned armies have fast vehicles, but once they get out they have to footslog.

An all-bike army can ALWAYS move 24", rather than occasionally move 36".

sorienor
18-04-2010, 07:04
1. Dark Eldar
2. Orks
3. BA/Eldar/IG.

The way I see it, the only reason Orks get 2nd is because they can assault out of the fast vehicles which none of the 3rd place armies can do.

Doppleskanger
18-04-2010, 10:28
And every one has forgotten the Ravenwing? Ok they're not perhaps as effective as the other lists discussed, but dang with that scout move they are shockingly fast!

NeoMonolith
18-04-2010, 13:15
Again, too much speed is bad.
Ravenwing are another example of Sonic getting the speed shoes.

Tau are there because they get their 'jump' in the assault phase, and everything else worth mentioning is going to be skimmers.

Znail
18-04-2010, 14:33
1. Dark Eldar
2. Orks
3. BA/Eldar/IG.

The way I see it, the only reason Orks get 2nd is because they can assault out of the fast vehicles which none of the 3rd place armies can do.

The Stormraven got assault ramps so BA can assault from it after it moves.


Again, too much speed is bad.
Ravenwing are another example of Sonic getting the speed shoes.

Tau are there because they get their 'jump' in the assault phase, and everything else worth mentioning is going to be skimmers.

But their Jet Packs move less in the movement phase then normal Jump Packs instead so end up the same speed. The Jet Packs are good for popup attacks, but arent actualy very fast.

Lord-Gen Bale Chambers
18-04-2010, 20:32
I think people are confusing mobility with speed. Mobility is being able to move and shoot effectively. In 40k terms, I would call mobility being able to effectively move and shoot more then 12". If you can move more then 6" while doing it, even better. Speed is how fast (in 40k how far) you can move.

If we really wanted to make this confusing, we could add the 3rd dimension of deployment options (scout, infiltrate, deep striking, outflank, drop pod, etc). Being able to deep strike or out flank may not make you fast or mobile, but it does give you the benefit of being able to get somewhere quickly.

The Tau have mobility, but not as much speed. Their ability to move more then 6" and shoot effectively is good mobility. Their skimmers and crisis suits can do this well.

Both Eldar armies have both speed and mobility. Their skimmers can move more then 6" and shoot effectively, but can also move quite fast if they need to redeploy.

The Imperial Guard are a special case. With an all Valkyrie / Vet list can be just as fast and mobile as Eldar. The Valkyries also having the ability to scout and deepstrike might technically make them faster, but since Valkyries need to be grouped in squadrons at most there are only 3 targets an army will face from this type of list until the troops start disembarking. No other fast army has this restriction or have so few options when it comes to fast units.

Orks need to be mentioned because they have a few fast vehicles and fast transports along with bikes and deffkoptas.

White Scar / Ravenwing space marines can be fast as well. The White Scar's Khan special character also has the added benefit of letting his force outflank.

Blood Angels with their fast rhinos and jump pack troops mixed with land speeders can be pretty fast as well.

Necrons do have some fast units, but their troops are slow. Their teleporting abilities gives them the ability to redeploy troops and kind of makes up for it.