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Hrw-Amen
18-04-2010, 13:18
I was looking back through my old codexes last night and spotted something I've never noticed before.

I was reading the listing from the Angels of Death codex and I noticed that squads in general, although I was looking at tatical squads, were made up of nine marines and one Sergeant. All fine with that, but then I noticed on the photograph that the models were annotated as Sergeant, marines and Squad Leader.

I could not find any reference to the Squad Leader in the break down, but it appeared as though most likely he was the guy with the melta / plasma etc gun from the pictures.

So I went to the old Ultramarines codex and sure enough the photographs were broken down in the same way, but again I could find no reference to a Squad Leader in the actual script.

Now admittedly it was quite late and I was a little tired so I could have missed it. But does anyone remember this and more to the point have any explanation?

I always assumed that at Squad level it was the Sergeant who was in charge, but now I have my doubts, especially as the Squad Leader model also appeared to have a back pack banner. Can anyone clarfiy this?

By the way before anyone gets upset, I did consider putting this in the rules forum but given that it may have a background explanantion rather than a rule one as no mention appeared in the rules from what I read I put it here. But fell free to move it.

Orthodox
18-04-2010, 13:24
blah blah combat squads, lurk more, etc.

He is a corporal/adjunct to the Sergeant. Combat squads are actually old news, and he is part of that fluff.

Leftenant Gashrog
18-04-2010, 13:49
I'm not sure the page number but it is mentioned in Codex Ultramarines - somewhere towards the back on a regular text page. The sergeant commands the 10-man squad, the squad leader is the most experienced marine in the squad and he leads the other combat squad (tho in fact his title is 'veteran' - even if hes not a bonafide white hat - rather than squad leader)

Sikkukkut
18-04-2010, 13:52
To expand a little on Orthodox's reply, this dates back to the second-edition rule that Astartes were always bought in ten-Marine squads, but you could if you wish deploy the squad as two "combat squads" of five each. When that happened the Squad Leader took charge of the second squad while the Sergeant kept command of the first.

It was really just a backstory thing since the SL was identical to their squadmates in every respect; it just explained how the command structure worked if you split your squads, for those who wanted to know that sort of thing, and gave you the chance to model up some extra heraldry on your SL if you felt like it. My SLs had smaller back-banner poles with a pennant sort of banner instead of the square hanging one of the sergeants.

Sinisterfence
19-04-2010, 13:27
ok, I have the Angels of Death codex in front of me now and don't see how you're missing which member the squad leader is... to be a bit more obvious I'll use the blood angels as my example.. it says 'heavy weapon' under the guy with the heavy bolter, 'sergeant under the guy with a chainsword, black banner and black shoulder pads, 'special weapon' under the guy with a melta gun, and 'Squad Leader' under the guy with a bolter, red banner, and black shoulder pads :P
as others have said, he's just a more senior marine who acts as a secondary sergeant when the squad is required to split in two

Hrw-Amen
19-04-2010, 17:17
Sinisterfence: I'm not missing which marine is the squad leader as I indicated in my post, it is clearly marked in the photo.

What I was asking is what role did he play, was he the squad leader or was the Sergeant the squad leader? Others have now answered that.

It is just something I had never noticed before and from a time when I was not involved too much in the hobby. I was in at the start with RT, but then went more to WFB until the Dark Eldar release when I came back.

Thanks for clearing that up for me everyone.

Flame Boy
20-04-2010, 11:51
I used to use the banner tops on the backpack of my squad leaders to make them stand out, but removed the need for an entire second banner in the squad. I can't remember where I got the idea from, but it wasn't my own idea.

Sinisterfence
20-04-2010, 15:28
my bad, must have misread your post lol

Minister
21-04-2010, 19:48
The Squad Leaders started getting phased out around the release of 3rd edition, though at this point it was mostly not mentioned and still included in at least some of the armies from the studio rather than deliberately removed, and they've been phased out since them. The Insignium Astrates fails to mention them, for example.

Some stubborn gits do still use them (and have to go begging for extra back banners to make up their plastic Marine squads.. Grumble).

Askil the Undecided
21-04-2010, 20:08
Also SL used to have rather funky extra decal to denote their status back in 2nd ed of a red sunburst (the original iron halo) that was placed on the pauldron overlaying the chapter marking like the skull was on a sergeant. (This is probably an Ultramarines thing I don't know about the other chapters as they weren't really well represented in Codex: Ultramarines.)

MajorWesJanson
21-04-2010, 20:15
My squads have red trim on the pads and hlmet for the normal troops, gold trim for the sergeant, and white trim for the corporal/squad leader. I still run with them.

Leftenant Gashrog
21-04-2010, 20:21
The Squad Leaders started getting phased out around the release of 3rd edition, though at this point it was mostly not mentioned and still included in at least some of the armies from the studio rather than deliberately removed, and they've been phased out since them.

Curiously, the Iron Halo did sneak back in the 4th edition codex art (on squad pads so clearly not captains):
http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/?action=view&current=sqdldrpads.jpg

Minister
27-04-2010, 21:38
Curiously, the Iron Halo did sneak back in the 4th edition codex art (on squad pads so clearly not captains):
http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/?action=view&current=sqdldrpads.jpg

And on the wrong shoulder pad as well, just to add insult to injury. :angel:

Leftenant Gashrog
28-04-2010, 11:33
I actually prefer it on that shoulderpad - it means its visible to the rest of the squad instead of the enemy, plus "leadership emblem + squad marking = squad leader" makes a bit more sense than "leadership emblem + chapter emblem = squad leader".