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New Cult King
25-05-2005, 05:11
Hey all,

I'm considering putting together a VC army, but without any Vampires, as none of the models or bloodlines appeal to me. I may eventually convert some of my own, but for now, I'm looking at running the army with a bunch of Necromancers in charge...

It has been suggested to me to use a level 4 Necro and three level 2 Necros, but how should I use them?

Should I rank them up with units of Zombies/Skellingtons, or should I have them separate as re-animators/scroll caddies?

How should I equip them? What are some useful spells, and what is the best way to use them?

I don't even have the army book at this stage, so any advice/suggestions/experiences anyone could share would be greatly appreciated ;)

Manalaius
25-05-2005, 14:07
As an (small in experience) veteran VC player i have seen the true power/strenghts of VC

And that is close combat and magic you cant do without one another
How fun it would like to go with an allout magic attacking VC army it does have their weaknesses (sorry for the terrible spelling but thats just my handicap)
Because ever seen an skeleton hit an elf or even a man, i think not with their WS 2 they cant even hit a zombie very well >< not that i complain they are only there to bring in the numbers and ranks so my vampire can win the fight for them.

As to bring on an army with only casters and no handtohand combat monsters (called thralls and counts, i always take one :rolleyes: )

So you need to make sure you use up all the enemies dispel dice i would say use the book of arkhan and casket of ages on one necromancer
on another rod of flaming death
And as to make your skeletons hit something the staff that gives you hellish vigour to all units within 12"

and as a small advice protect the general :skull:

what i do to protect him is mostly out a unit but for artillery heavy armies i would say put him in a unit lets say a unit of 10 zombies (if you smell trouble you place him in it) at only 60 points it will not be that expensive and if you dont need when your fighting an more close combat orientated army then you can leave the unit and raise some more as to realy make it an good unit.

Bur mostly i place my necromancers outside unites as to make them able to target everywhere this comes in handy against scouts

And as for other magical equipment the black periapt and dispelscrolls maybe and a good save for your general

as for now i think this will do i hope you can do something with this

good luck

Crazed_monkey
25-05-2005, 14:20
Even if you want to go magic heavy you can take a Vampire Lord and amp him up to a Lvl 4 wizard with the Necrach bloodline! and you have an ok fighter....

Sariel
25-05-2005, 16:17
Items:
Spell familiar for the Master - the only BAD spell in Necromancy is the Hand of Dust. Everything else is good to excellent.

Book of Arkhan - Just in case you fluff your spell rolls, its always nice to have at least 1 Van Hel's in the army. Give to a Necromancer.

Black Periapt - yeah. Another must-have. Give it to another Necromancer - you've got 3 of them!

Power Familiar - again, nice to have if you REALLY want to dominate the magic phase.

2 scrolls, to stop those REALLY annoying spells like Dominion or Black Horror. Let the d6 S4 magic missiles through, or just use some of those dispel dice (7+) you have lying around!

Power stones to taste, to really dominate the magic phase.


Troops:
Zombies as a bodyguard for all 4 necros. Reinforce with Invocation as needed.
2 blocks of Skeletons to block LOS and prevent charges against the Zombies. Again, reinforce as needed.

Dire Wolves, Ghouls, Fell Bats - excellent support troops. Squeeze in at least 2 units of Wolves and Ghouls, 1 unit of Fell Bats.
Black Knights - 2-3 units are nice. Barding optional. You need SOMETHING that can fight in case you have a bad run with the miscasts.

Banshee - why not, unless you're up against Daemons/other undead. If nothing else, she can contest a table quarter.


Role:
Animators. Zombies can't fight their way out a wet paper bag. On the other hand, summon a unit of 20 on the flank of an opponent's unit and watch him start to sweat. Especially if you have a Vanhel's or three up your sleeve (including the Book of Arkhan).


You might not win combat, but you can sure as heck mess up his plans. And since you have 13+ power dice to play with, you can always summon additional units in his rear+reinforce the Zombies. Just so long as you keep summoning.

Doing this in an opponent's deployment zone on turn 1 is pretty much guaranteed to mess him up, and probably soak up his dispel dice (and scrolls!).

MarcoPollo
25-05-2005, 16:37
I play against a VC army that is heavy on magic. He uses Necromancers and thralls and makes his lord more fighty than spell castery. He tries to whittle down the enemy before they get to his ranks and is always raising skeletons and zombies to delay my ability to get to his ranks. One of his best tricks is to rais skeletons behind my lines and move them into the rear of my ranks to autobreak them.

For fighting purposes, he uses large units of black knights. This is very annoying as they can autobreak most anything they charge.

Also, I find the banshee to be a very annoying piece. He is very clever about using it to take out much of my expensive flanking forces.

Dirty Fingers
25-05-2005, 20:27
It seems like the way to go these days is a couple units of 16 skellies, a unit of 16 or so zombies, maybe 3 or 4 units of 5 wolves, 3 units of black knights, a unit of 4 or so fell bats, maybe 2 units, but one's probably enough, then go for a banshee if you have points left over.

as far as characters, just try to get as many power dice as you possibly can, and the book of arkhan of course. Get power stones, familiars, whatever, just max on the power dice, so that you can summon like crazy and vanhel all over the table.

apparently necro VC are the way to go in tournies these days, and this is why.

New Cult King
26-05-2005, 00:06
Sweet! Thanks guys, this is really helpful... *bookmarks thread*

Looks like I'll have to get a ton more Skellingtons and Zombies if I want to be summoning MORE of them during the fight...

By the looks of it, I'm going to need to have at least twice the amount of these that I would start with, just so I have extra to summon...

How do you Vampire Counts deal with this?

Lordmonkey
26-05-2005, 00:26
By the looks of it, I'm going to need to have at least twice the amount of these that I would start with, just so I have extra to summon...

How do you Vampire Counts deal with this?

Try several days of being chained to a painting station, churning out zombie after skelly after zombie...

And the worst thing is, the zombie tends to be the more efficient troops for the job when summoning... just means more. MORE. :(

Be prepared to bring forth TWO carrying cases for a necro army...

*shudders with trauma*

"It was breakfast by the time he had packed his whole army away..."

Math Mathonwy
26-05-2005, 08:05
Also, for the skelly regiments, give them hand weapons, shields and light armour. They are moderately expensive that way but since you're going to be bolstering their ranks with summoning you can start with smallish units of 16 or 20. And skeletons with 4+ armour save can win combat - when there is a zombie unit humping the rear end of the enemy to deny them ranks, that is :p.

Ghouls are your best friend when causing casualties, btw. They are insanely maneuverable and cheap for their stats. My ghouls have beaten Saurus regiments and even a fully ranked Big 'Un unit with a frontal charge! Three units of about eight of nine is good.

SpeedyGonzales
26-05-2005, 12:13
stolen from the Warhammer Forum (http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=6472) :

"Posted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject: 2K Power VC - The Real Summon Horde Reply with quote
I'm experimenting with VC some more. This army is much more WAAC orientated than my previous Strigoi list. I'm going to do another battle report soonish with this riot of black magic. This is the kind of army I'm bringing to the UK GT Finals assuming my Brets qualify through the Heats, and since DoW aren't allowed there, I don't have any Cannons now.

When I get around doing the next battle report, I will take pictures explaining the deployment of the Necromancers and the strategy to keep the enemy from having any chance of touching them. Most of you of course already know how this is done, but some may find it educational.

Heroes:

Master Necromancer: 310p
Level 4, General
Spell Familiar
Power Stone
Power Stone
Power Stone

Necromancer: 150p
Level 2
Power Familiar

Necromancer: 150p
Level 2
Book of Arkhan
Dispel Scroll

Necromancer: 140p
Level 2
Black Periapt
Dispel Scroll

Core:

16 Skeletons: 143p
Standard, Musician

16 Skeletons: 143p
Standard, Musician

13 Zombies: 78p

5 Dire Wolves: 50p

5 Dire Wolves: 50p

Special:

3 Fell Bats: 60p

5 Black Knights: 115p

5 Black Knights: 115p

10 Black Knights: 315p
Barding, Full Command
War Banner

Rare:

Banshee: 90p

Banshee: 90p

Total Points: 1999
Total Models: 84

Well, magic is my friend. First turn when I have 13 dice I advance at full speed and usually make two Invocations, summoning one large unit at a critical place as close to the enemy weak spot as possible. If I have two Danses, I use the Book and the rest of the dice trying to Danse that unit into combat immediately. Gazes can sometimes be pretty good too if the enemy has some small units near his infantry blocks (destroy the skirmishers or fast cav and panic the rest of the army). Aggressive summoning usually burns two dispel scrolls from the enemy. In the second turn, in most circumstances, I use my saved dispel die and use one Power Stone, bringing me to 16 dice. If my summoning in the first turn failed for some reason and the enemy still has some scrolls left, he won't after this 16 dice bombardment. In my third magic phase, I go loco with 18 dice and end the game with summoned units dancing here and there with Black Knight support. Dire Wolves and Bats sacrifice themselves if need be to buy me time from enemy heavy cavalry and the like, while Banshees make their screams as useful as possible. That's the summon horde in a nutshell. I can easily finish the game with 100+ Zombies on the table."

List by Therion at the Warhammer Forum (http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/index.php) , not me (for the record)

Seems to be quite powerful , if perhaps a bit boring.

Hope it helps

Karhedron
26-05-2005, 12:30
One handy combo for a Necromancer Lord is the cloak of mist and shadows (hope I got the name right) which makes hime ethereal. For extra protection you can then add the amulet which gives him MR1 and a 4+ ward save against magical weapon attacks. Your opponent will find it almost impossible to kill him, especially since he can always top up his wounds with invocations.

Manalaius
26-05-2005, 13:48
When i play VC i use 3 big blocks of skeletons with la and shields and the units are mostly at about 25 so they can stand on their own and survive for a turn or 2.
and the other big units one of them might break the enemy and so will be able to lend a hand. And the unit with the Vampire(with a great weapon and ad weapon and when he enters combat i will choose which one he'll be using the whole battle, it makes him a bit more versatile) has never let me down, because they has always won The skellies are there for the numbers and the vamp for the kills, and if the skelletons can kill someone then the beter.

And i find the usage of bound spells beter then extra dice(but thats my opinion) because with extra dice then the chance of getting a miscast wil surely be bigger
and i would also say that book of arkan is neccesary to make sure you take out those dispel dice when you need to get thet Van hells dance maccabre spell on.
so the enemy is sure to dispell it ;) and when hes out of dice use the casket of ages. And if your succesfull in using the rod of flaming death once or twice then he'll be sure to dispell it each time you try to use it. ok its only d3 s4 but if thers one casualty the will have to take a panic test and seeing a unit of 20 men strong unit og black guard run because of this >< that smarts and it only costed me 50 pionts.

and i will also use 2 units of 5 fell bats as one will surely get trough and the other will draw mssile fire and i mostly use a diffrent unit every time i play again

occasionally i will use an banshee (or 2), one of these babies killed an whole unit of 15 DEspearmen on her own while in close combat.

I have been extremely lucky with playing VC, making it wonderful battles

as for Ghouls they are handy only with a leadership of 6 you need to be careful they wont get shot ><

These are my 2 cents on tactics

The basic for me is that the 3 blocks of infantry advance slowly towards the enemy and takes on reasonable units one of your unit is likely to get trough especialy if you use a vamp and when there is one trough then you see the enemies battle plan collapse. And the fell bats take on the scouts and or the warmachines.

again good luck :D

Riddy
26-05-2005, 15:05
I was thinking about doing the same sort of army, a vampire counts army, lead by necromancers with no vampires at all. I knocked out this list and i'll go through my reasons for picking each unit:

Master Necromancer
Lv4
Cloak of mists and shadows
2xDispel Scroll

This guy is the general, the idea is to float about at the back of the army unless the enemy can kill me with magic shooting, in which case he goes in a unit.

Necromancer
Lv2
Staff of Damnation

Sits at the centre of the army and hellish vigours as much as possible

Necromancer
Lv2
Book of Arhkan
Scroll

Same again, although this guy gets the job of being where he is needed, when he is needed to pull of flank charges etc

Wight Lord
Hv Armour, Shield
Barded Nightmare
Sword of Kings
Gem of Blood

Harasses enemys hardest character, with a 5+ Killing blow and the chance to reflect a wound on a 2+ most people will steer right around him

25 Zombies

25 Zombies

25 Zombies

The middle of the army, shambles across the talbe and holds the enemy up forever. Vanhels will be used to catch fast enemys if needed.

2x5 Dire Wolves

Attack lone mages and warmachine crew

7 Ghouls

6 Ghouls

Same as the dire wolves, although they can go after stuff in terrain and take on monsterous creatures with their poison

3x6 Black knights
Standard
Barding

The combat side of the army, the wight lord goes somewhere in these three and they advance with the zombies, hitting flanks and causing wounds whilst the zombies provide a tar pit and some ranks, they can also be used in support of each other and can be protected from missile fire by the ghouls and dire wolves.

3 Fell Bats

These will be useful if i need missile protection for the black knights as they can go mage/war machine hunting too.

Banshee

Well for general annoyance and for scaring knights and heavy infantry.

So there you have it, a vampire army with no vampire, but still a pretty good chance of winning.

MarcoPollo
26-05-2005, 20:53
I know a guy that plays with the army above or one simillar to it. He finds that his big units get worn down and to help these guys stay around he uses a wraith with the cursed book (-1 to hit for 6") or something like that. It really helps with the surviveability of those units and can make the difference of one round to get those supporting units to help autbreak the more elite units.

New Cult King
26-05-2005, 23:24
Would it be a good idea to put a Wight into each of my bigger units of say, Skels, just for added hitting power? Or are they something of a waste of Hero(?) slots in a Necro-heavy army? Is it worthwhile putting Necros in among my Skels? Or keep them as free-roaming?

DrkAp0stle
27-05-2005, 00:19
I have played VC for some time and have used necharch.

I'd say use lord with bloodline to lv.4, give him either book or black periapt.

3x necromancers, scroll caddies and just generally use magic. Grave Guard for the lord as a bodyguard. skellies and zombies as the usualy fodder. dire wolves and knights as flankers.


-Ap0stle

Sariel
27-05-2005, 02:14
Would it be a good idea to put a Wight into each of my bigger units of say, Skels, just for added hitting power? Or are they something of a waste of Hero(?) slots in a Necro-heavy army? Is it worthwhile putting Necros in among my Skels? Or keep them as free-roaming?

It gets risky running free-range Necros, especially if the other guy is using a Lore that ignores targetting restrictions. You might want to consider a deployment like so:

SSSS.ssss
SSSS.ssss
.ZNNNNZ
.ZZZZZZZ
.ZZZZZZZ

S=Skeleton regiment 1
s=skeleton regiment 2
N=Necromancers
Z=Zombie

You can move any Necromancers with the Gaze of Nagash into the Skeleton regiments, since that's the only Necro spell that needs LOS.


On the topic of Wights - I'd say keep the character slots for the necros - they are'nt going to contribute very much to your hitting power, and if you need more skellies, you can always summon more.

That being said, if you want a slightly friendlier list (ie one that people will willingly play against in pick-up games at your local club), you might consider dropping a necro for a fast, mobile hero. A Von Carstein Wolf Form Thrall is always useful, or you could grab my personal favourite - a mounted Wraith with the Talon of Death for whacking war machines. And having a fast terror-causer is always nice...

Sariel
27-05-2005, 02:33
I have played VC for some time and have used necharch.

I'd say use lord with bloodline to lv.4, give him either book or black periapt.

3x necromancers, scroll caddies and just generally use magic. Grave Guard for the lord as a bodyguard. skellies and zombies as the usualy fodder. dire wolves and knights as flankers.


-Ap0stle

I'd say go with the Master - the Necrach is a lot tougher, but you're also paying a premium for a character who (unlike Blood Dragon or Von Carstein Lords) should never ever go into combat. You're paying for a stat line that you should never use!

If you're buying up protective items (ie Ward Saves), you have less for magical upgrades. Imho, if you want magic, go with a Master Necro - at least with him, you won't be tempted to get into combat. Protection comes from your hordes of Zombies, summoned troops and Dire Wolves to prevent enemy heavy cavalry from aiming straight at the Necro's unit.

New Cult King
27-05-2005, 05:07
Mounted Wraith sounds great... very Grim Reaper :p Time to get out the converting gear...

Math Mathonwy
27-05-2005, 06:52
I have played VC for some time and have used necharch.

I'd say use lord with bloodline to lv.4, give him either book or black periapt.

3x necromancers, scroll caddies and just generally use magic. Grave Guard for the lord as a bodyguard. skellies and zombies as the usualy fodder. dire wolves and knights as flankers.
You can't have a Vampire Lord and three Necromancers in less than 3000 points because VLord takes up a lord and a hero choice.

Dargon
30-05-2005, 11:34
Here's my Vampire free list I use and the general tactics I use with it...

Necromancer Lord (Lv.4) with Obsidian Amulet & Book of Arkhan
Necromancer (Lv.2) with Spell Familiar & Powerstone
Necromancer (Lv.2) with Black Periapt & Powerstone

24 x Skeletons (LA, Sh) with Standard & Musician
24 x Skeletons (LA, Sh) with Standard & Musician
25 x Zombies with Standard & Musician
25 x Zombies with Standard & Musician
12 x Ghouls with Ghast
12 x Ghouls with Ghast
25 x Grave Guard with Full Command & War Banner

Choice of Units
Okay, for the most part my list is composed of units I like - I wanted an infantry heavy force that could scare my opponents.
In my first few games, I learned some very important lessons. Firstly, I originally had the full 10 levels of magic. This turned out to be overkill, and I found it much more useful (and fun) to replace one of my Necromancers with more troops.

It's always a good idea to start your army at full strength. Magic is unreliable, and it's much more usefull to focus all your spellcasting on the enemy on the first turn, rather than wasting that valuable turn getting your troops up to full strength.

Champions are pretty useless for Skeleton and Zombie units. These guys should never be expected to cause casualties - their job is to provide a reliable dose of fear and combat resolution, for as long as possible. Standards and Musicians however are invaluable for this purpose - the musicians there to help break a drawn combat.

Powerstones and Bound Spells are your best friend. Wise opponents will go out of their way to keep your Invokations at bay. Bound Spells and Powerstones can provide a few surprises when your opponent thinks you're out of powerdice.

Believe it or not, the Grave Guard are my sacrificial troops :eyebrows: . Their job is to scare/encourage the enemy to focus their firepower on them. They are the most resilient unit in my army, and the best able to withstand whatever the enemy throws at them. They are also the least important unit for my victory when things get close and personal. The Skeletons/Zombies provide the numbers and ranks, while the Ghouls provide the kills. Every War Machine and/or spell directed at the Grave Guard is one less directed at my Skeletons/Zombies - which means I don't need to worry about using my magic to restore them, and can use it on other things. The War Banner ensures that they can potentially still be useful after my opponent has attempted to cripple them.

Tactics
I'm under no illusions about my force. Nothing in there is particularly hard hitting, and I have no combat characters - this force is designed to win through attrition.

The Necromancers start the game hidden away inside my Skeleton and Grave Guard units, to best avoid the danger of War Machines and non-LOS enemy magic. At the first potential sign of the enemy entering combat though, the Necromancers are out of there, hiding themselves within close proximity of the larger units, to avoid being targeted. The Obsidian Amulet is a little added insurance for my general that I've learned to value.

I use my magic offensively (or defensively, depending on your perspective) as early as possible. If I have Curse of Years, this goes first, to force my opponent to use up his anti-magic - this is a spell opponents can't afford to ignore as they wait to dispel the Invokations. Then, I use whatever I can to nullify my opponents shooting/magic. This usually involves raising a new unit of zombies to block their line of sight to my army, and if I'm fortunate, a little Vanhels will also throw the Zombies into combat and either tie the Wizard/War Machine/Shooting Unit up in combat for a turn or two, or perhaps even break it :evilgrin: . Raising new units can be used fo all sorts of distractions and disruptions, ensuring the main army arrives in combat relatively intact and co-ordinated. Once there, it's all about swamping the enemy with fear, numbers and combat res in the hopes of autobreaking the enemy... or at least outlasting them.

Hope this helps...

Manalaius
01-06-2005, 07:48
i always use an Vampirelord in games of/over 2000 pionts
The Upgrade i can make him a level 3 wizard i find that better then the count version which you can make level 2 max and seeing he only gets an extra power dice for that then i see an extra dispel and power dice wound attack a bit better
and with the von carstein ring he will be able to take on quite a lot
and equip him with an additional hand weapon and a greatweapon and hes versatile enough (and at the first combat he enters i will be able to decide which weapon he will use the entire battle)

4 wounds 4+ rerollable ward save(regenaration) gets you a long way ;)

O, and my advice on champions in units yhese guys arent there for the extra attack these guys are there to challenge tooled op characters as to let my skeletons survive a bit longer, because then my skeletons will be able to fight back.

LaughinGremlin
03-06-2005, 18:58
One handy combo for a Necromancer Lord is the cloak of mist and shadows (hope I got the name right) which makes hime ethereal. For extra protection you can then add the amulet which gives him MR1 and a 4+ ward save against magical weapon attacks. Your opponent will find it almost impossible to kill him, especially since he can always top up his wounds with invocations.

I've done this too. For even extra protection, I have placed this particular necromancer in the front corner of my block of skellies, so he can't even be touched in combat by the enemy's hero which is typically more "centered" in its unit. The typical rnak and file troop won't have a magic attack against your Necromancer.

jma037
14-06-2005, 02:55
What about a 1000pts army?
I'm newly starting VC and want to do a 1000pts army.

Is it feasible to start a 1000pts VC list?

Karhedron
14-06-2005, 11:41
VCs have a bit of a problem below 2000 points because they really need their Lord choices. Whilst you can make all-Necromancer armies (see Dargon's example) they are not to everyone's taste.

VC armies rely on their general for march moves and ultimately for existence. The general must be a magic user which means he must be a Necromancer, Vampire Count or Vampire Lord. You cannot take a Vampire as general in games < 2000 points (OK, you can take a Necrarch Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood but that is not a great investment for the points).

Necromancers make fragile generals. With T3, 2 wounds and no armour, your enemy will be throwing everything they can at him. Even rank-and-file infantry can seriously threaten lowly characters like this.

You can play VCs at 1000 points but really you need to get up to 2000 points to play the army properly.

jma037
14-06-2005, 20:43
What if I get the necromancer the clock of mist and shadows and out him in the back of a skeleton unit?

This is my basic plan.

2 Necros

1 wight lord

20 Grave guards

10 zombie to shield the grave guards

2 units of 16 skeletons.

Do you think it can work in 1000 pts?


Cheers

Karhedron
14-06-2005, 21:04
What if I get the necromancer the clock of mist and shadows and out him in the back of a skeleton unit?
That is feasible but remember, most spellcasters have to be in the front rank of a unit in order to cast spells. I think that this rule applies to necromancers too.

Put him in the corner of your unit as LaughinGremlin suggested. Most players put their heros in the centre of the front rank. If your Necro with the cloak is on the corner then it is very unlikely that he will find himself facing any magic attacks.

One thing I would suggest is to buy your Wight Lord the Blade of Kings and the Cursed shield of Mussillon and put him in the same regiment as your Necromancer. This guy will be pretty nasty in challenges and so if an enemy hero issues a challenge then you can take him on with the Wight Lord without risking your Necro or sending him to the back of the unit.

Treat the Wight Lord as a sort of super bodyguard. :)

jma037
14-06-2005, 22:37
Can you have two heros in one unit?

I plan to give the wight lord the blade of kings, he will be in the unit of grave guard withe helberd, sheilds and the banner of barrows. Full command too.

The two units of skeletons will have standards and musicians only. I plan to use my six power dice to cast 3D6 and grow those bad boys in the first round.

Why can't the necro be targeted by magic if you put him in the corner?

The other necro will have the book of arhkan and maybe the black peript or a spell familiar.

Do you think this works better?

this is how I want to lay out the grave guard unit.

ZZZZZ
ZZZZZ
GMWSN
GGGGG
GGGGG
GGGGG

The zombies in front and missle shields.

Cheers

Sariel
14-06-2005, 23:03
Can you have two heros in one unit?


You can put as many characters in a unit as you want (assuming they're not flyers, swarms or mounted characters in skirmisher units, of course).

As for finding a place to hide your necros, I'd just park him in a unit of Zombies. They're cheaper, and its less likely you'll be sending them out to beat up on enemy units. Grave Guard are hard - you'll be wanting to put them in harm's way as often as you can.

If you really need to protect your Necros from combat, just park a unit of skeletons right in front of them. It'll take the other guy a while to carve through the skeletons, and in the meantime, you can always summon new units to charge him in the rear.

If you get Gaze of Nagash (the only Necromancy spell that needs LOS), you can always use two units of skeletons, and have a narrow corridor for the Necromancer to cast Gaze out of......

For an example with regards to deployment, just go to page 2 of this post...
(http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2554&page=2&pp=10)

Sariel
14-06-2005, 23:25
VC armies rely on their general for march moves and ultimately for existence. The general must be a magic user which means he must be a Necromancer, Vampire Count or Vampire Lord. You cannot take a Vampire as general in games < 2000 points (OK, you can take a Necrarch Thrall with Nehekara's Noble Blood but that is not a great investment for the points).

Necromancers make fragile generals. With T3, 2 wounds and no armour, your enemy will be throwing everything they can at him. Even rank-and-file infantry can seriously threaten lowly characters like this.

You can play VCs at 1000 points but really you need to get up to 2000 points to play the army properly.

I'm afraid I have to disagree here - an all-Necromancer list at 1000 points has got to be one of the nastier things around out there.

1) There will seldom be enough magic defence to stop 3 level 2 necros, so you can usually summon units to your heart's content.
2) No enemy archmages, so you don't have to worry as much about the really nasty Lores (Big Waagh, Life, High Magic.... )
3) Less cannon
4) No Lords, therefore poorer leadership on the part of close-combat armies, so fear is going to count for a lot more.

For instance....

3 level 2 necros, Black Periapt, Book of Arkhan
12 Zombies
10 skeletons, LA, standard, musician
10 skeletons, LA, standard, musician
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
2 Bat Swarms
6 Black Knights

8 power dice, 5 dispel dice

First two turns - keep casting Invocation while the Dire Wolves and Bat Swarms distract any big nasty units. Skeletons in front, zombies and Necromancers behind. Reinforce the skeletons first - top up the Zombies as needed.

Rest of the game - move up and just keep summoning units into the flanks and rear of enemy units as needed, coordinating charges with the Black Knights while dropping the odd Gaze of Nagash or Curse of Years if you have the dice left over.

Necromancers might be pretty darn fragile, but enemy armies are going to have a hard time wading through all those skeletons and zombies you can throw in their path before getting to them, especially if you totally dominate the magic phase.

Same thing goes for the few things that can pick out single characters - Hochlands, 'eadbutt, Burning Iron, Buboes - all these are magical attacks or need magical support (Second Sign for Hochlands, for instance), and with 3 necromancers, you have a pretty good chance to stopping them.

Either that or just hide them out of sight and/or out of range. You can always summon units to go after the wizards, or at least keep them busy in close combat if they're hiding in ranked infantry units of their own.

jma037
14-06-2005, 23:30
Nice to see this thread being raised from the dead. How fitting of the theme.

Check out my 1000pts necro list in the Army list section!

All comments ideas and suggestions are well come!

Cheers.

Lordmonkey
14-06-2005, 23:43
Here's my Vampire free list I use and the general tactics I use with it...
[...]
Hope this helps...

I'd peronally take champions in the skelly units. Something to accept challenges, not least on the behalf on necromancers sheltering within them, but also to hold off powerful enemy chars for a turn, to prevent too much combat resolution (this is how undead win combats, after all)

With magic i suppose you could raise flankers, but i think you should buy some dire wolves (small units of 5?) and drop the ghouls untis to about halfish.