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Drake Dun
17-02-2006, 18:07
Say you have a character with magic arrows (an enchanted item, not a magic weapon). Can the character choose between firing the magical arrows, and firing normal ones?

NO unsupported conclusions please. Rule quotes or at least explicit reasoning.

Drake

Avian
17-02-2006, 18:14
Apart from the rule saying you cannot use a mundane close combat weapon if you have a magical one, there is nothing that says you have to use magic items if you have them.

From my reading of the WE book, it appears to be possible to have a magical bow and magical arrows, but the bonuses don't always stack, ergo it must be possible to NOT use magical arrows.

And then there is the Hail of Doom Arrow, which is one shot. Presumably it doesn't replace all the character's normal arrows, so it must be able to choose between magical and mundane ones.

Drake Dun
17-02-2006, 18:23
This is maddening... here is what I wanted to do, in a 1000 pt. game.

Get a wood elf noble, with arcane bodkins (no armor save), and the hunter's talon. The hunter's talon is the sniper bow that lets you pick any model you want as long as you are firing non-magical arrows. I would use it for this when needed, and switch to the arcane bodkins when I was just shooting at a unit.

Sounds like a waste, right? Each turn one item or the other is not being used. Only even when firing the arcane bodkins the bow is of use. The way the English rules are worded the bow's second effect, that is of letting you choose a different target to the unit you are with, is still in effect when using the arcane bodkins. This way I get to stick him in with some glade guard so he can't be supercheesed, but he can still shoot at knights while the glade guard shoot at something weedier.

This relies upon two things though. The first is that you can choose to fire normal arrows. My reading of the rules is that you still can.

The second is that you are using the English version of the rules! The first sentence in the Japanese version is "Effective only when firing non-magical arrows". So the second effect doesn't apply either when using the arcane bodkins in Japan. Ugh. I thought I had a nice combo there.

On a related note, I believe I have found a use for Asyendi's Bane. On a Spellweaver with magic arrows (35 of the points left over after you have taken for example the Wand of the Wych Elm) it becomes rather useful... although if you fire at the wrong targets the chance of wounding yourself starts to get significant.

Drake

warlord hack'a
18-02-2006, 19:54
english, being the native language of the GW founding fathers, is the one to follow here. GT rules specifically state: only English rulebooks are valid.. So I say you can use the talon bow with bodkins to shoot at a unit of knights while the rest of your unit shoots at something else, you just can not pick out a specific model from the knight unit (no rulebook quotes however ;-)

Drake Dun
18-02-2006, 21:57
While I like that outcome, it seems a little odd to tell Japanese people IN JAPAN that they have to follow the English rules!

Drake

WLBjork
19-02-2006, 07:24
It does, until you realise that the rulebook was written in English and translated to other languages, often by a translation firm who change the wording and weaken the original ruling.

How do I know? A friend of mine consulted on one of the translations (Mandarin or Cantonese, not sure which), and had several disagreements over which words were used.

T10
19-02-2006, 09:41
This is maddening... here is what I wanted to do, in a 1000 pt. game.

Get a wood elf noble, with arcane bodkins (no armor save), and the hunter's talon. The hunter's talon is the sniper bow that lets you pick any model you want as long as you are firing non-magical arrows. I would use it for this when needed, and switch to the arcane bodkins when I was just shooting at a unit.


If you take a magical bow, do you still have your standard issue mundane bow? If it is replaced by the magical bow, then the problem is solved.

-T10

ZomboCom
19-02-2006, 19:04
If you take a magical bow, do you still have your standard issue mundane bow? If it is replaced by the magical bow, then the problem is solved.

-T10

No, you don't lose your mundane bow.

Drake Dun
20-02-2006, 02:33
I have a followup question. Can a Wood Elf Noble who is the Battle Standard Bearer (and who loses his bow when you choose to make him the Battle Standard Bearer) get and use a magical bow? Working strictly from the rules the answer is obviously yes. But some rather confusing wording in the FAQ available online at www.games-workshop.co.uk (I would post a more direct link, but the site seems to be down at the moment) seems to indicate otherwise.

Half of what he is talking about there with magic item options for characters is just flat out not in the rules. For example, he says that a wizard cannot take magical armor, because they do not have the option of getting normal armor. The rules say nothing of the sort (although of course the wizard would not be able to cast - it does say that).

I need to know this as well, since I am thinking of making a Wood Elf Noble Battle Standard Bearer who uses a magical bow.

Drake

Festus
20-02-2006, 06:32
Hi

A character can only take Magic Armour if he is allowed to take mundane armour. It is correct and part of the rules.

As to the Bow...
Suggested reading:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21046

Greetings
festus

SuperBeast
20-02-2006, 08:51
The rules in the WE book specifically state what you can and can't give a BSB.
He loses all his equipment (except handweapon, obviously), and may not be given any mundane weapons.
WE book not to hand here, but re-read the BSB entry.
Bear in mind you cannot give a magic equivalent of equipment to a model if it is not allowed the mundane version.

Avian
20-02-2006, 10:16
Bear in mind you cannot give a magic equivalent of equipment to a model if it is not allowed the mundane version.
That officially only applies to armour and semi-officially to shields. It certainly does not apply to other equipment, but that has been done to death in the other discussion already...

Drake Dun
20-02-2006, 12:13
A character can only take Magic Armour if he is allowed to take mundane armour. It is correct and part of the rules.

My bad. I checked the rules again and that IS in there, although it is only for magic armor. The idea that it extends to other items seems to have come out of thin air.. thanks for "clarifying" that, you dorks. Half the time when they "clarify" something it means changing it. The other half of the time it means making it less clear.

Still, I think I will avoid the bow on the battle standard bearer. I am not really sure I could live with myself, having to look at the model. The idea of glade riders managing a spear and a LONGBOW at the same time on unsaddled horses is challenging enough to my capacity for suspension of disbelief.

Here is what I was thinking of with the bow-bearing battle standard bearer... I was going to make a unit of glade riders joined by a spellsinger and the battle standard bearer. The spellsinger's spells all have 18" range so the mobility would be nice. It is nice for the battle standard bearer to have mobility for obvious reasons (and it is a crying shame not to get a battle standard in at 15 pts. if it does not screw up your design for the noble). Then I could make the battle standard bearer an alternate version of the sniper noble and again that 18" range is no longer a problem, plus he has the mobility to get LOS on guys. All in all it would be a very mobile unit able to cause all kinds of trouble.

I may still be able to pull off a version of it.. actually, another question pops up in this line of thinking. A Wood Elf BSB with a magic banner may not "carry any other magic items". May he have spites? The people who did the army list for Army Builder clearly think not. The book says spites "...are chosen in the same manner as Magic Items...", which is the only support I can find for that idea.

Drake

SuperBeast
20-02-2006, 12:36
>sits down< two characters in a glade rider unit?!:eek:
Nononononono, unless you have PLENTY of cover.
Please, don't do this...

Spites are included in the magic item allocation, which would be justification enough for me to say that BSB's cannot take them.

Drake Dun
20-02-2006, 13:12
>sits down< two characters in a glade rider unit?!:eek:
Nononononono, unless you have PLENTY of cover.
Please, don't do this....

No guts no glory! I will report back here when my pretty elfy face is all busted up and one of my pointy ears is missing, so that you know for sure it is a bad idea.

Drake

bored1
22-02-2006, 15:33
arrows are not weapons in this game, they're enchanted items. So there are no restrictions on use, unlike the magic bow. So you can always choose to not use the enchanted item, but you must always use the bow.

Festus
22-02-2006, 15:44
Hi

arrows are not weapons in this game, they're enchanted items. So there are no restrictions on use, unlike the magic bow. So you can always choose to not use the enchanted item, but you must always use the bow.

There is no rule on shooting weapons, IIRC (having lent my book to a friend), just on weapons used in close combat.

Correct me if I am wrong...

Greetings
Festus

ZomboCom
22-02-2006, 18:40
Hi


There is no rule on shooting weapons, IIRC (having lent my book to a friend), just on weapons used in close combat.

Correct me if I am wrong...

Greetings
Festus

You are absolutely correct. You must use a magic hand to hand weapon if you have one, but you don't have to use a magic missile weapon.

bored1
23-02-2006, 02:41
i stand corrected. the requirement to use magic weapons is only for close combat weapons.