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DigitalDogParty
26-04-2010, 03:50
Hey there. I've recently started Warhammer Fantasy, and my first army I've chosen is obviously Skaven. The people I will mostly play against are: Lizardmen, Dwarves, and Bretonnia. I was wondering if perhaps someone could help me out on what sort of units I should run here against these armies? Oh, and also I sorta know the rules to the game. I've read the rule book a lot.


My army so far consists of this:


Chieftan
Warlock Engineer
Death Master Snikch(Just because I got this one for free, meh)

Eighty Clanrats
Two Ratling Guns
Twenty Stormvermin
Eighteen Giant Rats
Some Packmasters for rats and Ogres

Four Rat Ogres
Thirty Plaguemonks
Eight Plague Censer Bearers
Five Warplock Jezzails

One Doomwheel.

I didn't upgrade or say what the army is exactly due to the very reason why I posted this thread. I would like to know what upgrades or units I should use against the mentioned armies. Also, I will be playing under 2,000 point games at the moment since we just started. So, maybe setting up armies around 1,000 or 1,500 would be nice. Also, if it helps, the Lizardmen player uses Cold One Riders, Skinks and priests or Chieftains(Forgot which ones), an Saurus hero, Temple Guard, Warriors, and a Stegadon. As for the others, I'm not aware of what they have at the moment. Anyways, thank you for any help you can give.

w3rm
27-04-2010, 17:24
This army looks very decent.

I think however Skaven need a bsb. I like to take a unit of 22 Giant Rats with 2 Packmasters and a Master Moulder in the front to make a nice hammer. Plague Monks I run 6-7 wide with FC and the Plague Banner. I take a lvl 2 Warlock with Doomrocket and the Warp Condensor for nice offensive magic phase.

You also need slaves. I never take less then 60.

therat
27-04-2010, 19:06
You've got a pretty well-rounded bunch of models.

I don't use anything from Clan Moulder, so I'll not comment on them.

I agree with w3rm that you need some slaves, but I never take less than 40. For a 1500 point game I'd field two units of 30 clanrats and use the 20 you have left over for slaves.

Usually I don't have a bsb, he always seems to get plowed before I even get to use him.

I'd leave the Deathmaster out under 2000 (and probably even above that).

Stormvermin are a Skaven elite unit, meaning they are not elite and cannot hold against elites from other armies. Taking a large block with shields will effectively give you a more reliable block of clanrats. Some may turn their noses up at this, but I find it to be very useful, especially if you give the unit the war banner. 24-30 stormvermin with the warbanner and shields can hold a lot of stuff, but do not ever expect them to be able to dish out damage and win without static combat res. Treat them like reliable clanrats.

Censer bearers are arguably the best unit you have. I would not run them in a unit of 8, however. 6 is my recommendation. Get 4 more and run two units if you feel you need some extra punch (you've got rogres and a wheel, though, so you probably wont need them). They are very good and very reliable. Beware of thunderers when facing dwarfs. In fact, beware any shooting. These guys are a big target because they are so nasty.

The Doomwheel is another excellent unit, but it is somewhat random and cannot be relied upon too heavily. You'll figure it out.

General Skaven pointers: big blocks are important, slaves are meant to die, ranged attacks are very potent, but can go very wrong, trust in your clanrats (in large numbers and with the general's leadership they can hold against many, many things).

Garion
27-04-2010, 20:11
All I have to add is you need a lot of slaves and I would include the furnace once you move up to 2250 pts or more.

DigitalDogParty
27-04-2010, 21:21
Thanks for the tips, folks. Yesterday I played a game against Dwarves and it went well pretty well. Played a 1,300 point game and everything turned out the way I wanted it to. First time against cannons, and let me say that the player had some really great guesses. That Organ gun constantly got ten strength five hits on my clanrats. The other normal cannons were okay, though due to the map, basically I had to funnel my rats into a small space to get to him. That meant three cannons shooting down the center and that was not fun. Rat Ogres died in one turn due to cannons on the flank, though I used them to distract the shots. Giant Rats slaughtered that cannon crew on the second turn, which was good. I made myself a Rat Abomination and that went through some woods only to flank charge a large unit of warriors. In the end he slaughtered them andthey had to flee from Abomination. Flee distance? He rolled two ones, and due to them being Dwarves, minus one to that. So...one inch. Horrid.

Runes are obnoxious, especially when he put the hard cover ability one on his cannons. My ratlings had to get six's to do hit them. Annoying...haha. Well, I won the game and all and I believe I had about sixty of my clanrats left. Oh, and my Plague Monks really screwed over his Thunderers. I was used to going against Lizardmen, so I never bought myself some Night Runners or Gutter Runners. Now that Dwarves are in the mix, I can see some use for them; obviously. I think the thing that killed me this match was that the "audience" and the Dwarf player wanted to put a lot of terrain on the map. I think it's because they are use to playing 40K. By making only two small areas to go through, it messed me up. My Jezzails didn't do much, and as previously mentioned, the cannons and that funnel situation murdered me. Good thing I had enough rats to just overwhelm him. I had to take the battle to him.


I was also thinking on some new units to buy. Should I try out some Gutter Runners? And with armies like Lizardmen, Dwarves and Bretonnia, should I head towards a Pestilence army and Plague Furnace, or a swarming horde type and Screaming Bell? It seems everyone is really into the Plague Furnace than the bell...hm.

therat
27-04-2010, 21:32
Gutter runners are great. I run 6 with slings and poison, that setup would do very well against dwarfs because of their 4 toughness.

Bell or Furnace would do well, it really depends on if you want to take a seer or not. The seer & bell come with a really high price tag, 440 points if you don't take any magic items. The priest clocks in at 250. I run a furnace starting at 2250, but not an overall Pestilens army. I take a priest, furnace, 20-30 monks, and 6 censer bearers (three of those things are in one unit). A primarily Pestilens force has the problem of being entirely frenzied.

Something else to consider before making the bell or furnace is that 8th edition is supposed to be bringing a 25% restriction on the amount of points spent on characters. Taking a 440pt seer in 2000 means you've only got 60 points more to put into something else. The 250 point priest only takes up half of your character allotment. This is, however, a rumor (though a very well supported one) so take it as you will.

DigitalDogParty
27-04-2010, 21:55
Gutter Runners sound like they can do a lot for me. If the Bretonnian player would field units in the back to shoot his bows, then I could just deal with them from behind. As well the cannons, which eliminate the annoyance that they are. Running six of them sounds like a solid choice considering that giving them poison is expensive. Do the slings cost anything? I don't have the book at the moment.

As with the bell/furnace thing, I'm probably going to wait on that. I need more rats as it is(Slaves/clanrats), so getting a furnace or a bell is a bit too much. Some of the unique abilities and combat tactics for Pestilence type armies are interesting and powerful, but Frenzy irks me. I have yet to use Plague Censer Bearers since I'm not sure how to set them up.

I've also heard rumors of the percentage thing around here. If that could be true, then that might have some impact on choices. So that gives a better reason to wait on the furnace/bell.

Garion
28-04-2010, 08:00
Your next purchase should be lots and lots of slaves. I would recommend the bell against dwarves or the furnace, it is a really good buy and a really nice model to paint. I wouldn't worry about the percentages if they are correct they shouldn't effect the use of a bell or furnace, they will just stop you using 2 HPAs which a lot of people seem to be doing.

If you do want to wait though I would say definitely get a lot of slaves and painting all of them will probably tie your up till the new rules are released.

Glad you beat the dwarves, I don't like dwarves :)

w3rm
28-04-2010, 16:59
Yeah as above slaves and gutter runners are the way to go. Just buy Night Runners as its cheaper.