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Silentbob10
26-04-2010, 06:14
Hi all, I was in a tourney called the student nationals over the weekend and suffice to say there was a good large mix of armies represented out of the 40 or so people who took part. I personally took my Eldar and i saw plenty of nids and mech/air cav guard but what surprised me morew than anything was the huge lack of space wolves.

Out of 40 only 1 person took them and even then it was a blood raven army using there rules and so this ponders the question why on earth wernt there more? A newish army with a good rule set and the ability to make strong lists was simply not used. Are they not good enough? If so ive made a huge mistake buying an army of them. So has anybody else seen this trend if so what do you think the problem is?( Side note: only reason i didnt take them was because i couldnt get the army painted in time)

enigma-96
26-04-2010, 06:35
Space Wolves may have a good book but they ain't popular, at least round these parts, and judging by that tourney neither are they in your area either.

I mean it all comes down to the simple fact that Marines are Marines are Marines, the only difference is the flavour. I guess people don't like viking/ furries.

Side note: How many Blood Angel players were there?

Zeitkraft
26-04-2010, 07:01
All depends on location I guess. There were quite a few SW armies showing at Adepticon in Chicago back in the States. Beautiful Thunderwolf Cavalry conversions and all.

But like Enigma said, when you boil it down, marine lists really are all just the same at their core; tactical squads with bolters in a rhino or land raider with some random stuff in terminator armor with slight variations. Though, in my humble opinion, Grey Hunters are INFINITELY better than a Tactical Squad any day. :p

Simo429
26-04-2010, 07:39
i wouldnt agree that SW are just nilla marines with a different fluff

the combinations and freedom you get with wolves are outstanding, its an army based around characters and story and for me they have the best HQ in a rune priest for the points he is available at

however i do agree that they arent as popular as I thought they'd be at my 2 gaming groups including me there are are only 2 space wolves players in about the 100 that attend each although they arent all 40k players

maybe its because the lack of models for certain units

The True Mooseman
26-04-2010, 08:39
These things happen. I was next door playing fantasy and there were no Vampire Counts and only one Dark elf army - by most people's count, the second and third strongest lists out there, as well as some of the best models. I wouldn't read too much into it.

Worsle
26-04-2010, 08:52
Space wolves are a great army unless you just try to shoe horn in an army from the space marine book (they just don't work in the same way). So either people did that and then gave upon them or people just don't care to much for look of them in your area. Or maybe just the lack of thunderwolves and no one wants to convert them.

azimaith
26-04-2010, 09:07
Space Wolves are like Ultramarines now. Everyone and their dog has them and so they're getting the same stigma.

Kulgur
26-04-2010, 09:08
Don't know about anyone else's area, but in mine the flavour of the month crowd have moved on to blood angels which will be super awesome until the next marine codex comes along

SideshowLucifer
26-04-2010, 11:27
As a loyal space wolves player from rogue trader, I'm glad to say a lot of our fotm players have moved on to Blood angles as well and left my wolves to me.

duffybear1988
26-04-2010, 12:05
Well I have had Space Wolves since their previous codex (admittedly mine are a chapter of my own design, but they still retain most of the furs, axes etc that make SW so iconic) and they are still as powerful today as they ever were. I was taking them to the Student Nationals myself but had to pull out earlier this year as I had important stuff to do instead.

Still I think its a lack of a couple of models in particular that are driving people away from Space Wolves and its GWs own fault really. Thunder Wolves are in my opinion cool and completely justified (Fenris is a deathworld after all and there is no doubt that there are giant wolves there, so why is it so difficult to see the Space Wolves taming a few and riding them as kindred spirits?). Now if GW released them as plastics which look a lot better than the current special character one then lots more people would do SW. I mean they offer people a chance to do something completely different with their army in the form of tough cavalry.

Blood Angels are the new flavour of the month simply because they have some rather powerful units that may/may not be overpowered (having played against blood talon armed dreadnoughts I have to say im on the side of those screaming broken personally).

What also annoys me is the lack of models with mark of the wulfen - I mean GW HAVE the old 13th company wulfen sculpts so why not just re-release them under a new name? Instead we are left trawling ebay trying to buy a box for 60 -100...

Yeah so thats my reasoning for why SW are not popular in many areas - its the simple lack of models for thunder wolf cav and wulfen.

Oguleth
26-04-2010, 12:25
I still see more regular marine lists than other flavored kinds; new books made a couple of each army turn up, but it is by no means some kind of fotm addicition people are getting. Depends on various gaming groups I suppose.

Actually, I see more Necrons than BA and SW, so I guess this place is just crazy.

Brother Nidus
26-04-2010, 12:31
I foresee a time, not too far away, when a certain black clad OP army get rebuffed and alot of red army players will discard there useless old red and go for the nice shiny new black ones....

There's too many Marine codecies floating about nilla/sw/ba/da/bt/noob warriors(spoiler for next marine dex?) rather than bringing more players to the fold it's just filtering out the loyal players buying what they usually do. the more Marine codecies they bring out the less sales they'll make on the other marine dexes. Then they go 'oh X Marines arn't selling so let pull them' to outcrys of 'Hey we like them bring them back!' eventually the hate mail inbox fills up so much that they go 'fine, but we'll make them even more ridiculous than before' whereupon the Flavour of the Month noobs go 'Yay teh nuw spac merines is heare! FFTW!' and they blow off thier current OP army to fill thier teenage bedrooms full Super X Marines. Meanwhile GW are thinking 'Hmm... Y Marines arn't selling much....'

Now did i miss anything?

What? Jaded? Moi?


Nidus

qwertycg
26-04-2010, 13:01
I know of a few people that play them and a few around me use them.

Hashmal
26-04-2010, 16:10
Last tourney I played in saw 20+ people, 0 Space Wolf players and 2 IG lists, with representation from nearly every other codex (excepting Grey Knights and Daemons). About 1/3 were 'nilla Marines. Wolves haven't been popular at any tourney for me. However, I know the area has several Blood Angels players who've collected a second army since their last codex, so I'm curious to see what the next one will bring.

Silentbob10
26-04-2010, 16:17
Well we had no Blood angels due to the fact we could only use books released before april. And it was a national event for the uk so i really doubt it was a geographical thing it just seemed ppl were close to obsessed with nids even tho they all finished mid to low table.
On a side note it was won by a very boring ork list that even the man himself admitted was strait from this very site under a similar heading to "the best ork tourney army u can get".

duffybear1988
26-04-2010, 16:59
Well we had no Blood angels due to the fact we could only use books released before april. And it was a national event for the uk so i really doubt it was a geographical thing it just seemed ppl were close to obsessed with nids even tho they all finished mid to low table.
On a side note it was won by a very boring ork list that even the man himself admitted was strait from this very site under a similar heading to "the best ork tourney army u can get".

Do you know which uni won overall? Im only interested as I will probably be there next year and im really hoping I dont have to travel to Scotland.

Silentbob10
26-04-2010, 17:19
We are off to sheffield nxt year

Simo429
26-04-2010, 17:37
We are off to sheffield nxt year

were nottingham uni there, i attended one of there days last year but found it to be very cliquey and unwelcoming for new members who knew noone

Silentbob10
26-04-2010, 22:00
no they wernt ull find us all to be a very nice lot to be honest i go with sunderland personally

PsyberWolf
26-04-2010, 23:57
I have both the 2nd and 3rd edition codexes but haven't felt the need to get the latest codex. As a long time wolf player, I think GW "jumped the shark " with the wolf riders.

enigma-96
27-04-2010, 00:00
I have both the 2nd and 3rd edition codexes but haven't felt the need to get the latest codex. As a long time wolf player, I think GW "jumped the shark " with the wolf riders.

Don't you mean jumped the Wolf :rolleyes::D , the sad thing is with their naming convention that's what they would call it if they ever did mention it.

Thylacine
27-04-2010, 02:42
Silentbob10

Space Wolves have never been an easy army to use and thats their problem, they just don't appeal to the average player. In tournaments you are working damn hard in every game, win, lose or draw, no matter what list your opponent has. Multiple HQ's put a lot of players off and I found that opponents hated them.

Thunderwolves were/are an obscure 'red herring' thrown to players by GW, great unit but we won't support it. Problems with carrying capacity in Rhinos and Drop Pods, no Land Speeder Storm, no Thunderfire Cannon and the Change to OBEL to BEL, saw a lot of people buy but codex but don't build an army.

To win at a tournament with Space Wolves you need to take a 'kill all' list and even then a it depends on facing the right opponents, a podium placing is not assured. What is assured is a low composition score from your opponents, as they perceive your list as an OTT marine list.

Face it guys Space Wolves are not that popular with the general playing public and it is the fault of GW! New players see the imagery, buy the codex then when they realise that winning games is hard they switch armies. The history of the army and its sales keep it on the shelves, but don't expect to see an abundance of SW armies at tournament. I am one of two local SW players that attend local tournaments and that is the way it has been for most of the last nine years. I see the odd list at a GW store or at a gaming group but SW's are never the first choice of other players! Sad but true.

Orcboy_Phil
27-04-2010, 15:46
Silentbob10

Space Wolves have never been an easy army to use and thats their problem, they just don't appeal to the average player. In tournaments you are working damn hard in every game, win, lose or draw, no matter what list your opponent has. Multiple HQ's put a lot of players off and I found that opponents hated them.

Thunderwolves were/are an obscure 'red herring' thrown to players by GW, great unit but we won't support it. Problems with carrying capacity in Rhinos and Drop Pods, no Land Speeder Storm, no Thunderfire Cannon and the Change to OBEL to BEL, saw a lot of people buy but codex but don't build an army.

To win at a tournament with Space Wolves you need to take a 'kill all' list and even then a it depends on facing the right opponents, a podium placing is not assured. What is assured is a low composition score from your opponents, as they perceive your list as an OTT marine list.

Face it guys Space Wolves are not that popular with the general playing public and it is the fault of GW! New players see the imagery, buy the codex then when they realise that winning games is hard they switch armies. The history of the army and its sales keep it on the shelves, but don't expect to see an abundance of SW armies at tournament. I am one of two local SW players that attend local tournaments and that is the way it has been for most of the last nine years. I see the odd list at a GW store or at a gaming group but SW's are never the first choice of other players! Sad but true.

Its good to know I'm not as bad a player as I thought I was :D So far only one victory with the wolves and that was in a game agasin't Tau, when his Hammerheads couldn't roll anything higher than shaken agasin't my Dreadnaught. It is surprisng however how much the Meta Game in the UK seems to have changed in the last couple of months. I was in a Doubles Tournament down in Warhammer World in mid Feb and you could not move for SW armies. I don't think me and my partner (I was using my Space Sharks Army, he was using a Necron Army :wtf: after insisting I used my Marines) faced any game that didn't involve any wolves.

SharpSilver
27-04-2010, 15:59
Was inevitable.

Masses buy Spaces Wolves. Make them. Game with them.

Games Workshop releases something new and it causes the non-dedicated Wolves to jump ship to new ventures.

Give it time.

blackjack
27-04-2010, 18:06
Around my area Wolfs are common. They have the most powerful Marine dex hands down.

Plastic Rat
27-04-2010, 18:42
Yeah, I'm seeing plenty of 'grey legions' being fielded as Space Wolves at my LGS. In fact I'd say the vast majority of marine players here are using the SW codex in some way.

Killswitch<>
27-04-2010, 19:03
Silentbob10

Space Wolves have never been an easy army to use and thats their problem, they just don't appeal to the average player. In tournaments you are working damn hard in every game, win, lose or draw, no matter what list your opponent has. Multiple HQ's put a lot of players off and I found that opponents hated them.

Thunderwolves were/are an obscure 'red herring' thrown to players by GW, great unit but we won't support it. Problems with carrying capacity in Rhinos and Drop Pods, no Land Speeder Storm, no Thunderfire Cannon and the Change to OBEL to BEL, saw a lot of people buy but codex but don't build an army.

To win at a tournament with Space Wolves you need to take a 'kill all' list and even then a it depends on facing the right opponents, a podium placing is not assured. What is assured is a low composition score from your opponents, as they perceive your list as an OTT marine list.

Face it guys Space Wolves are not that popular with the general playing public and it is the fault of GW! New players see the imagery, buy the codex then when they realise that winning games is hard they switch armies. The history of the army and its sales keep it on the shelves, but don't expect to see an abundance of SW armies at tournament. I am one of two local SW players that attend local tournaments and that is the way it has been for most of the last nine years. I see the odd list at a GW store or at a gaming group but SW's are never the first choice of other players! Sad but true.


Your kidding right? A space wolf army well built and in the right hands is devastating. They have the best troops in the game, the best HQ in the game and the hardest cavarly in the game, mixed with the cheapest fire support in the game.

So far ive lost one game with my wolves at that was at the GT finals, they are far from weak and once a player knows his army inside out, theres no stopping the wolves of russ!

Thylacine
28-04-2010, 02:17
Killswitch<>

Post up the lists you took to those events, it is always good to see how other players organise their lists.

ashc
28-04-2010, 09:17
Yes, Space Wolves have a very solid book indeed.

Metagame in your area will always have an effect on what is getting played though, as well as how 'competitive' your scene is.

Killswitch<>
28-04-2010, 10:14
Well my 'scene' tends to be all the local, far and wide tournaments. My local scene isnt very competative so I tend to not find much competition around here. I rather playtest my taxctics and skills at tourneys.

My list can be found on the forum if you search, or in the space wolves blog in my link, just search "GT list"

Orcboy_Phil
28-04-2010, 11:17
Killswitch: A quick question on your list if you would? Why did you go for Rhinos over Razorbacks with such small units? I was going to add some Mech to my units soon in form of 5 Greyhunters with Melta led by a Wolfguard with combi melta or charecter in Razorbacks.

Killswitch<>
28-04-2010, 12:16
Because Im one of the few who don't make that mistake. Why would I want a small unit that cant shoot out of a pillbox? A heavy bolter, or even a lascannon razorback etc will become very static. This in turn becomes a simple firing pillbox. Once that weapons destroyed, it becomes a box. I on the other hand use rhinos, as my rune priests ebcome my firing pill boxes.

Jaws can be shot at great angels due to the large size of the fire point on the rhino. Living lightning & murderous huricane can also be done via this fire point, and can be done whilst in the confinement of your rhino.

I can also do drive by's which I cannot do with a razorback. People tend to enjoy moving 12 inches, getting out 2 + base size and shooting, but that isolates your squads. Id rather wait, be patient, wait for the right oppurtunity whilst moving forward, then do a drive by if need be (move 6 and shoot the meltas out the hatch).

Not only do I get to shoot 2 melta shots at the tank in question, as stated abocve, I am still in the confinement of the rhino. The enemy unit 9namely orks who lack in the anti-tank department) now have to assault the rhino, and then take the assault from me. I don't always rely on counter attack, as its there more for a dire situation in which I have no choice. I would still try my best to gain the charge as it stops my opponent gaining a momentun through the extra attacks. Units such as orks who rely on their furios charge, the new blood angels, khorne beserkers etc come to mind. 5 marines with a melta and a wolf guard with combi melta in a twin-lascannon razorback comes to 178pts for 20pts more I get 6 marines with a melta, motw, banner, wolf guard with p.fist & combi-melta & a rhino, which now can also house on of my many rune priests to provdide a sod firing base & a useful counter assault unit.

I think blood anglels will be the only exception to this, as fast razorbacks are indeed extremly useful, especially with twin-flamers or las/plas.

gwarsh41
28-04-2010, 13:53
I dont think I have ever seen so many people who are clueless about space wolves. Vanilla marines with different fluff? must be tailored lists to win? multiple HQ is a down side? (you dont have to take 4..)
I am envious of what seems like most of you who dont have many wolf players in your area. There were 3-4 including me before the new book. One of which never plays at the store. After the book, and a slew of new players, there were EIGHT! I dont have much fun playing mirror matches, so I started to give my daemons some sensual healing.
I think now that most of the new people learned about other armies, and that playing the same thing as your buddy is not cool. Now whenever I go to the store and play, a few of the newer guys will crowd around and ask about anything and everything. I feel like a wise old man when I play a game these days.
Plus I like +1500 pt games, most people in this area like 500-1000 pt. so bricks are shat when people see 2K games.
I want to arrange an apoc game with a friend to make some heads spin.