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View Full Version : How are the Ogres currently?



Bassik
26-04-2010, 10:14
For some time, I've been thinking about returning to WHFB, and what betther way to get re-interested in a game then starting a new army? I've got some sporadic Ogres in my collection, and realy like their models and background, so there you go.

But what I want to know is, how are they doing currently? Any good, or instant suck? And will this change when the enw edition hits the shelves?

Thanks in advance,

Bassik.

MiketheFish
26-04-2010, 10:33
Well right now, they suck massively. They are a very poor army with lots of problems. HOWEVER, the edition change coming in July promises to make them better, since they seem to be giving some buffs to the larger-based units. Apparently 40mm bases can get rank bonuses in 3 models wide, and also they supposedly gain bonus "stomp" attacks. Whether or not these will be enough assistance to the Ogres remains to be seen.

Right now, in the current edition, they are fairly poor. Oh you can play them and be successful - all armies are that way, BUT to do this, you need 2 things to happen:

1) Good (or at least average) dice. All armies can say this to a degree, but with Ogres ALL they do is generate combat res by killing bad guys. So if you wiff a bunch of attacks, then you are sunk. Other armies can rely on Rank bonuses, cool banners, and decent leadership scores etc to bail them out of a bad dice day. Ogres have none of those things.

2) A perfect game. Ogre Kingdoms players who want to win games have to make absolutely no mistakes. None. Zero. They don't have the numbers to withstand a bad decision or bad deployment. One bad choice can have very serious repercussions in your army and is generally impossible to recover from. Again - all armies can say this, but with OK, it's a heck of a lot worse.

Memnos
26-04-2010, 10:53
QFT:

Ogres are currently a very difficult army to play. New edition: Who knows?


Well right now, they suck massively. They are a very poor army with lots of problems. HOWEVER, the edition change coming in July promises to make them better, since they seem to be giving some buffs to the larger-based units. Apparently 40mm bases can get rank bonuses in 3 models wide, and also they supposedly gain bonus "stomp" attacks. Whether or not these will be enough assistance to the Ogres remains to be seen.

Right now, in the current edition, they are fairly poor. Oh you can play them and be successful - all armies are that way, BUT to do this, you need 2 things to happen:

1) Good (or at least average) dice. All armies can say this to a degree, but with Ogres ALL they do is generate combat res by killing bad guys. So if you wiff a bunch of attacks, then you are sunk. Other armies can rely on Rank bonuses, cool banners, and decent leadership scores etc to bail them out of a bad dice day. Ogres have none of those things.

2) A perfect game. Ogre Kingdoms players who want to win games have to make absolutely no mistakes. None. Zero. They don't have the numbers to withstand a bad decision or bad deployment. One bad choice can have very serious repercussions in your army and is generally impossible to recover from. Again - all armies can say this, but with OK, it's a heck of a lot worse.

Cragum
26-04-2010, 11:58
ive just got myself an entire army to prepare myself the onslaught of the new edition. Hopefully things will make ogres a very good army, things such as percentages will favour for ogres quite heavily. not just because we mainly have troops to take point up but secondly enemy forces shant be so over powered due to the need for certain troops.
We wont be seeing elven forces with nothing but specials...

Memnos
26-04-2010, 12:02
ive just got myself an entire army to prepare myself the onslaught of the new edition. Hopefully things will make ogres a very good army, things such as percentages will favour for ogres quite heavily. not just because we mainly have troops to take point up but secondly enemy forces shant be so over powered due to the need for certain troops.
We wont be seeing elven forces with nothing but specials...

While a concentration on foot troops gives ogres an advantage, the following rumours don't look good for Ogres:

1) Random charge distance. Ogres are M6. This means they get only a d6 inch range for impact hits. Impact hits rarely happen now against anyone who knows what they're doing. They will almost never happen with this new rule.

2) People striking back even if killed. Impact hits don't remove models from fighting you. This is fine, since you won't be getting them any more.

This all adds up to the fact that Ogres will never be able to beat anyone in a straight-up fight. Ninja ogres, flank charges and shooting will be the order of the day. Again, that's not much different than -now-, except that super-characters won't exist.

On the whole, I think it's a wash. I'm happy about the super-character removal and the reduction in power for charges means little, since Ogres could never win in a straight up fight anyway.

I'm hopeful, but wary.

chaos0xomega
26-04-2010, 12:58
Wait and see what 8th edition brings. Some of the rumors seem to me like they might give the ogres a serious boost. And then, there is almost certainly a new army book headed our wayin about 6-9 months.

Bac5665
26-04-2010, 13:08
Ogres are fine UNLESS your opponent is VC, TK, DoC, Brets or has any flying 5+ creature.

Also, you have to take 2-3 butchers, or you'll be screwed.

But within those limits, Ogres can be a solid mid tier list. But some things they just can't take. At all. But you'll never have an advantage over anyone, the best case scenario for ogres is an even fight.

Chapter Master Leonidas
26-04-2010, 13:09
I've played Ogres for a couple of years but I'm also a glutton for punishment, no pun intended.

It's a fun army to play. It's easy to assemble and paint and it's about 90% plastic so from a modeling perspective it's great!

From a gaming perspective it can be annoying. It's limited by a few factors. First, individual figures are expensive points-wise and while they can hit like a freight train, little to no armor saves and small unit sizes means you're going to see a lot of your units get picked apart at range before you get the chance to charge.

The impact hits are nice, but you get them off so rarely they're really a non-factor. You'll also find that 4 wide ogre units tend to get in each others ways pretty often making maneuverability a touchy issue. Ultimately it's my feeling that the combination of huge bases, low unit sizes, no armor saves and high point costs per model limits the ogres quite a bit. I've always felt that if you could get close to twice as many ogres as you can now, so maybe you're running units of 6, the army would be more competitive.

Currently, fun to play against well rounded builds, can't compete with anything that is competitively built and in the hands of a solid general.

warriorpoet1
26-04-2010, 13:10
Wait and see what 8th edition brings. Some of the rumors seem to me like they might give the ogres a serious boost. And then, there is almost certainly a new army book headed our wayin about 6-9 months.

Agreed. However that doesn't mean you cant go and get some models and start painting!

chaos0xomega
26-04-2010, 13:10
definitely do so. The battalion box is a great value... I got three...

Cragum
26-04-2010, 13:13
Ogres are fine UNLESS your opponent is VC, TK, DoC, Brets or has any flying 5+ creature.

Also, you have to take 2-3 butchers, or you'll be screwed.

But within those limits, Ogres can be a solid mid tier list. But some things they just can't take. At all. But you'll never have an advantage over anyone, the best case scenario for ogres is an even fight.

Tbh anything against usual DoC and VC usually get ripped in two nowadays...
Sadly i will admit as i said before i have got an army, but i dont expect to win much...
But then again i do have 3 rhinox riders so that might give me an edge!:evilgrin:

Garion
26-04-2010, 13:42
Ogres are fine UNLESS your opponent is VC, TK, DoC, Brets or has any flying 5+ creature.

Also, you have to take 2-3 butchers, or you'll be screwed.

But within those limits, Ogres can be a solid mid tier list. But some things they just can't take. At all. But you'll never have an advantage over anyone, the best case scenario for ogres is an even fight.

You forgot Lizards, Dark Elves, high Elves, WoC, Beastmen, Orcs and Goblins, just Goblins and Skaven.

They cant really beat anyone at the moment unless you get lucky or your opponent sucks.

But I still collect them because I love their models and they should be able to compete again once the new rules are released. I would still recommend you buy their battalion box it is good value for money and gaming is fun and this is probably the cheapest and quickest army to assemble.

BigbyWolf
26-04-2010, 13:54
They cant really beat anyone at the moment unless you get lucky or your opponent sucks.


Not true, the use of proper tactics helps. Combi-charging, Gnoblar Screens, MSUs, heavy magic, all these things can add up to a force that can hold it's own against balanced lists.

Mercules
26-04-2010, 15:12
You forgot Lizards, Dark Elves, high Elves, WoC, Beastmen, Orcs and Goblins, just Goblins and Skaven.

They cant really beat anyone at the moment unless you get lucky or your opponent sucks.

But I still collect them because I love their models and they should be able to compete again once the new rules are released. I would still recommend you buy their battalion box it is good value for money and gaming is fun and this is probably the cheapest and quickest army to assemble.

They can't? It's a tough battle but I've beaten VC with Ogres. I really get sick of people telling me that if I do win it's because I'm lucky or my opponent can't play. I think my opponents might not be very happy at that statement either.

Now I am not very good at Beating DoC or DE but that would be because the armies I have faced with them are so over the top that even a blanced DE, DoC, VC, LM, or WoC army would have difficulty beating them.

Ogres are a rough army to play but not it is not impossible to win like some people make it out to be.

Uncle_Cthulu
26-04-2010, 15:45
I am with Mercules on this one, and don't really loose many games with my Ogres, including DE, DOC, thought i would struggle against Brets, but nope.
My advice: MSU's big 30+ blocks of Gnoblars, Man Eaters with Braces of Handguns, i use 2 units of 3. 2 Butchers, and if you are playing a known magic heavy opponent, take Skrag. Fist Full of Laurels a must as well, i don't bother taking a tyrant.

Urgat
26-04-2010, 17:17
Well, I got to say that I don't consider myself a bad player, but I get flattened left and right when I play my ogres, no matter who's going against me. Of cousre the fact that none of my usual tactics work with them probably ampers me, but still, they happen to be spectacularly weak in melee, for ogres, when there's no character with them. And any kind of ranged fire is their bane. I'm sure I'd lose to an army of gnobblars :p


I am with Mercules on this one, and don't really loose many games with my Ogres, including DE, DOC, thought i would struggle against Brets, but nope.
My advice: MSU's big 30+ blocks of Gnoblars, Man Eaters with Braces of Handguns, i use 2 units of 3. 2 Butchers, and if you are playing a known magic heavy opponent, take Skrag. Fist Full of Laurels a must as well, i don't bother taking a tyrant.
If you need to take a special character to face particular builds, it means that there is something wrong with the army, probably.

Kayosiv
26-04-2010, 17:26
If you need to take a special character to face particular builds, it means that there is something wrong with the army, probably.

Or there's something wrong with those builds.

Lord Malorne
26-04-2010, 17:27
Well right now, they suck massively.

That is the best way to sum them up :).

Kairob
26-04-2010, 17:27
Even if ogres are one of the weakest armies out there they do have one thing going for them: They're cool. And remember, a bad army book is only around until it's replacement whereas badass is forever. :p

Mercules
26-04-2010, 17:37
Well, I got to say that I don't consider myself a bad player, but I get flattened left and right when I play my ogres, no matter who's going against me. Of cousre the fact that none of my usual tactics work with them probably ampers me, but still, they happen to be spectacularly weak in melee, for ogres, when there's no character with them. And any kind of ranged fire is their bane. I'm sure I'd lose to an army of gnobblars :p

You can't play Ogres the way you would think they would play. I found that out the very hard way, trial and error. Front charges are a no-no against most units. Fleeing is acceptable. Being sneaky helps.

I will tell you that playing Ogres made me a much better player with all other armies which points to Ogres being a harder army to play.


BTW, Gunlines suck when you are Ogres. Then again, Gunlines suck for most people to take on, but for Ogres it's a bit worse. :)

Hragged
26-04-2010, 17:55
Even if ogres are one of the weakest armies out there they do have one thing going for them: They're cool. And remember, a bad army book is only around until it's replacement whereas badass is forever. :p

I like that! :D

No doubt about it, we're a tough army to play with these days.
I wouldn't expect Ogres to suddenly jump to top tier with 8th edition but a few rumoured changes certainly benefit Ogre armies. That said, there'll likely be new drawbacks as well - can't wait to get playing 8th to find out where we stand :)

BigbyWolf
26-04-2010, 17:59
One good thing about them is that their magic users are pretty tough, so even a caddy can dish out a bit of damage in h2h.

Grimstonefire
26-04-2010, 21:03
Something I feel is very important to note here is that Ogres will come after the 8th ed rulebook, so any changes that are made to 40mm based 'ogre sized' models will probably mean after their book comes out they will be vastly better than they are now.

I think OK are going to do well in 8th ed as a whole, but let's face it, they couldn't do much worse! :p

But depending on what exactly the changes are, between 8th ed and their book update they could have 6-9 months of being seriously nerfed.

Mercules
26-04-2010, 21:15
I think OK are going to do well in 8th ed as a whole, but let's face it, they couldn't do much worse! :p

Chaos Dwarf players might debate that statement.

Orktavius
26-04-2010, 21:17
6-9 months of being seriously nerfed.....OH NOES!!! What ever will I do after all these months of already being nerfed :)

Mercules
26-04-2010, 21:20
Months? Years?

smallgreenguy
27-04-2010, 17:18
Wasn't the rumor for a new OK book found to be quashed? I was under the impression that we aren't even really being considered for a new book. Of course as an ogre player I hope this is false!

Garion
27-04-2010, 17:29
It wasn't quashed, the dates were just said to be wrong, people believed the book would be released about now earlier in the year, which then changed to august and people believe they will probably be released around December or early next year.

As I understand it it's in the pipeline but they are still testing it at the moment. Fingers crossed it does come out for Christmas that would be very nice.

Also I was exaggerating earlier in this thread when I said they cant beat anyone, they can and I have but the lists I have had to run in order to do this are fairly boring as you basically end up with a list like this which isn't very varied-


Tyrant with Heavy Armour, Tenderiser, Wyrdstone Necklace and Longstrider = 301

Butcher with 2 Scrolls = 180

Butcher with Scroll and Bangstick = 180

Butcher with Skullmantle and Siegebreaker = 180

3 Ogre Bulls = 105

3 Ironguts with musician and champion = 174

3 Ironguts with musician = 154

3 Ironguts with musician = 154

3 Ironguts with musician = 154

8 Gnoblar Trappers = 48

2 Leadbelchers = 110

2 Leadbelchers with musician = 120

2 Leadbelchers with musician = 120

2 Leadbelchers with musician = 120

Gorger = 75

Gorger = 75

Total = 2250

Darthvegeta800
27-04-2010, 17:48
Ogre Kingdoms play like my 40K Pure Grey Knights. You're with few, you look awesome and you die painfully ;)

Orktavius
27-04-2010, 19:10
I do enjoy pitting my ogres against VC.......especially with friendly opponents who don't totally abuse the magic phase. Ogres kill skeletons at a satisfyingly fast pace. But yeah...we are boned ftm