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2nd Lt Feen
27-04-2010, 03:51
Hello WarSeer,

I've recently observed and played a few games of Fantasy. I've chosen the Bretonnians as my first army. I really dig the knights and theme of the army. My question is this: Is it worth buying some models before the 8th edition rules come out? My guess is that knights, archers and men at arms will still be in the army lists come 8th edition, but I'm hesitant to sink money into it with a new edition on the horizon.

What do you guys think?

chaospantz
27-04-2010, 04:18
I would say pick up a box or 2 of your core units. These things are probably not going to change much if at all. As for the rest, maby hold off on picking up too many things and wait to see what kind of list you can build with the changes to the 8th core rule book.

Dark14
27-04-2010, 04:55
i would wait it might turn wfb into 40k 2.0. Alot of people i know are waiting and not even playing because of this Gw makes bad choices for old gamers to bring in kids.

someone2040
27-04-2010, 04:58
My personal oppinion is as such.
If you're sticking to the 'core theme' of an army, you should be fine. If you're doing more odd-ball themes, you may want to wait.

For instance, for Beastmen, horde army of gors, ungors, chariots, and some special monstes and a big gribbly is probably sticking to the theme and should be fine (Because you've loaded up on a fair amount of core).
But say, Minotaur stomping ground army with min core of 3x5 ungor skirmishers is really a more specialist army, and may be rendered invalid.

But getting a few core units (Knights of the Realm) and a character or two, will likely work in the new edition and are a good purchase. They will also most likely keep you busy until 8th edition is out anyway.

ChaosVC
27-04-2010, 05:06
Wait for the new Ed rule book, read it and decide from there, Unless your gaming group belongs to a hardcore "screw 8th ed and stick with 7th ed" if 8th ed suck" peeps, go for it.

Frep
27-04-2010, 06:07
I say go ahead and buy some models, first of all it gets you gaming now, have fun with 7th edition while it lasts, secondly Brettonians will be fine with the new 25% core rules, your best options are core units anyway. Heck the battalion will be a fantastic deal, what with archers and men at arms getting a boost, and you'll always need knights.

Lord Dan
27-04-2010, 06:23
I'm standing by, letting my untraceable overseas Warhammer slush funds grow until July.

Alathir
27-04-2010, 06:32
Bretonnia, I consider, to be one of the safest armies going into a new edition as I'd bet all the money in my pocket that knights of the realm, knights errant, men-at-arms and bowmen are going to feature and still be effective. I'd hold off on their Special and Rare choices perhaps but I'd say you be safe if you stuck to characters and core units.

Dark14
27-04-2010, 07:14
men at arms are worthless now lol with new rules they will be worse with just more weak attacks with no hitting. archers however might be insane wait still but you might be stocking up on 120 of them with some trebs.

Alathir
27-04-2010, 09:46
I really have to disagree, Dark14, Men-at-Arms only appear worthless! Used in the correct roles, they make for a very impressive support unit, 5 points for a 4+ armour save with free halberd/spear, a reliable leadership 8 added to the fact that they dont cause panic in knights with no V.P's awarded for their banners is a sweet ass deal! Plus, the models are great.

Griefbringer
27-04-2010, 10:49
Based on the rumours I have read, the men-at-arms might actually become more useful in a supporting role:

1.) With heavy cavalry unable to march, it will be easier for the men-at-arms to keep up with them.
2.) In scenarios requiring you to capture and hold objectives, the men-at-arms might provide a solid block of infantry to hold the objective while the knights will act more aggressively.

Minsc
27-04-2010, 10:52
I'd say No.

You might like the rules now (7th Ed.) but you might hate 8th Ed, in wich case you've made a bad investment.
If you do happen to like 8th Ed, you might as well wait untill July.

I personally won't be buying anything WFBrelated untill I know if I'm gonna like 8th Ed. or not. (Was gonna buy goldswords, a Stank and some Statetroopers but that project is shelved for some months.)

enygma7
27-04-2010, 11:32
I'd agree with someone2040- if you pick a balanced army that fits with the race's fluff you stand a good chance of being "future proofed" against any changes - its normally the extreme army selections that focus on "optimal units" that get screwed by changes. However I'd disagree with Alathir that bretonnians are one of the safest races - they are heavily based on cavalry whereas the new edition is likely to put much more emphasis on infantry at the expense of cavalry, plus they have an old book so GW might not be as bothered if they suffer a reduction in competetiveness.

I'd recommend starting out if you know you like bretonnians, but focus on the core aspects of the army that are likely to still be solid and don't aim to finish the army until after the new edition is released where you can fine tune things.

mdauben
27-04-2010, 14:25
My guess is that knights, archers and men at arms will still be in the army lists come 8th edition
Remember, too, that the new edition will change the rules but not the lists. Any unit or character that is in the Bret army list today will still be there when 8th ed is out. So, nothing you buy now will become unusable under the new eddition. The actual list won't change until they get around to updating the Bret Army Book.

Now, changes in the rules may change the ballance of some units in the list, making some more or less desirable than they are now, but as others have said, as long as you avoid unbalanced or "trick" lists, you should have no trouble with the transition. ;)

Lord Dan
27-04-2010, 14:39
men at arms are worthless now lol with new rules they will be worse with just more weak attacks with no hitting. archers however might be insane wait still but you might be stocking up on 120 of them with some trebs.

So in the new rules M@A remain the same except for the fact that more of them get to attack. How could this possibly be worse than how they are now?

Malorian
27-04-2010, 15:19
So in the new rules M@A remain the same except for the fact that more of them get to attack. How could this possibly be worse than how they are now?

Because their enemy gets more attacks too.

So whereas they might have only taken a bit of damage, lost by a bit, and held, now they will take a lot of damage, lose by a lot, and break.


(If the rumors are true.)

brendel
27-04-2010, 16:27
I'd say get into it now, play some games get familer with the basic rules then when the new ed is relesed, you wont have so much to pick up on and you will have the models already.

Lord Dan
28-04-2010, 01:34
Because their enemy gets more attacks too.

So whereas they might have only taken a bit of damage, lost by a bit, and held, now they will take a lot of damage, lose by a lot, and break.


(If the rumors are true.)

Only if you're sending them against other ranked units. I only have a couple of 10 man units I use to ward off fast cav, flyers, and skirmishers.

outbreak
28-04-2010, 05:02
I say buy some now. If your set on playing fantasy and have friends playing, buying a small starter now will make no difference as others have said, the models will alll still be usable.

Heimagoblin
28-04-2010, 06:46
I'd pick up a bsb, 2 boxes of core knights, a unit of men at arms or a unit of archers. That'll keep you busy until 8th comes out.

Galatan
28-04-2010, 13:45
You can never go wrong with core choices IMO. No matter how much the rules change, core will always be important. So I'd say, buy 2 boxes of knights and a BSB (since he's mandatory anyway) and you'll probably be busy till the new rules come out.

Since you are just starting the game it will be safe to assume that there wouldn't be a very big chance you'll end up in the: 'the new 8th ed rules suck!' crowd, because you aren't familiar with the rules in the first place. Also you haven't built an entire army yet (I play VC and I fear I'll have to re-arrange my entire hero and lord section), so once your core is done you can easily adapt your bret army. Unless you don't like what the rules have done to cav, but then you would be playing brets because of their rules and not how they look or style.

Stuffburger
28-04-2010, 13:56
I would have no qualms about starting the army now- A small 500 or 1000 point force based on mainly core units is a good building block no matter what units become better or worse in a new set of core rules. 1-3 units of knights, a unit of MaA, one unit of archers and a few characters will be useful no matter what 8th does- and the new bret army book, when it comes out will certainly have core knights supported by peasants as the "standard" build. A small force also gives you an opportunity to get the whole thing assembled and painted so when 8th comes around and come out you can come out swinging, so to speak.

I would not learn the core rules with only 2-3 months left in 7th ed. I still confuse 6th and 7th rules and have been known to inject the odd 5th ed rule despite having played 5th for maybe 3 games :( I know I sound like I'm blowing it out of proportion but there are probably 100 small changes between editions and many people have trouble keeping them straight.

Quetzl
28-04-2010, 14:18
I'd say if you're gonna start an Army, go Core heavy as nobody knows what's gonna happen :)

I myself have just started an Empire Army, and I'm kinda reluctant to kit it out entirely until 8th has arrived.

fyedaddy
28-04-2010, 14:28
I am new the game but have already invested in an army and started painting. How often do the figures actually change over the years when a new edition is released? Isn't it just the rules?

Stuffburger
28-04-2010, 14:50
I am new the game but have already invested in an army and started painting. How often do the figures actually change over the years when a new edition is released? Isn't it just the rules?

In my experience the models get refreshed every 4-12 years, depending on popularity and quality of the old sculpt, while new core rules come around every 4 or so, though this pace seems to be accelerating for some reason. Army books get a refresh every 4-7 years. In general they re-do at least a substantial amount of the miniatures to coincide with the army book release and every now and then a few models are re-done more or less at random.

The new edition of core rules has little to no bearing on new miniature releases, except for the miniatures in the starter box tend to be single part versions of their boxed counterparts, which may or may not be new.