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L1qw1d
28-04-2010, 19:30
Let me start with : This is not ME. I HAVE Druchii, but this is someone ELSE who had to roll to solve it.

Guy has One General (the big Mal) mounted on Dragon. over the course of the combat, Mal has been wounded until finally he has a wound left. Still on Dragon. Buddy charges with a Steam Tank. Kils Mal, gets Dragon to one Wound BUT:

Before he can do anything to resolve, guy says that he Withdraws- No soldiers are out of the Steam Tank, ergo, it is only a War Machine/ Object. Argue 20 minutes after checking D. Elves, Empire, and main 7th book. Moderator says "get the Die of Decision, and choose your 50%".

I'm curious, because it WASN'T during friendly play- it was during a full blown and largish Tournament. (Ended up being a Draw, instead of a near Win, and he noted the argument killed the fun he was having. to me, THAT was the big loss...)

The_Bureaucrat
28-04-2010, 19:44
This appears to be directed towards tournament rules, and crappy ones at that. I don't think anyone here can help you.

*Edit* After further reading this it seems like, the person said he can withdraw from combat since it's only a warmachine and not crewed ? Is this what you mean ? It would help if you clarified the question.

Atrahasis
28-04-2010, 19:55
I can't tell what you're actually asking.

The Tank cannot kill the dragon rider, as impact hits cannot hit the riders of monstrous mounts.

Other than that, your post is greek to me.

Crovax20
28-04-2010, 19:59
According to me what he tried is illegal. The Steamtank is a special warmachine that has close combat capabilities. He can't just say I withdraw from the combat, especially not if it was the Empire players turn. He has to loose combat and fail a breaktest, destroy the steamtank or escape by some sort of magic/special rule.

Besides the fact that the Steamtank does have a crew an engineer, he hides at the bottom of the tank and you can kill him by killing the steam tank.

stripsteak
28-04-2010, 20:00
Before he can do anything to resolve, guy says that he Withdraws- No soldiers are out of the Steam Tank, ergo, it is only a War Machine/ Object.

what did he mean by he was going to withdraw? There is nothing in fantasy that lets you elect to leave a combat, regardless of what you are fighting. a warmachine on it's own is still a unit you are enganged in combat with, they just normally spike at the end of combat, but you can't spike a steamtank so the combat would have to resolve as normal. The only thing that lets you 'withdraw' (i used the term loosely) from a combat is assaulting a building, and losing.

was the guy a 40k player and getting confused with vehicles since they don't stay locked in combat? but even there you still resolve the current combat they are in.

Commodus Leitdorf
28-04-2010, 20:12
Oh jeez, not this again...

I think he was arguing that the Steam Tank with no crew, therefore he could just leave combat with it....

...Which is a stretch even with the old "spike the Steam Tank" arguement.

Simple answer is no, he could not leave combat. The Steam Tank fights like a normal unit following the normal combat rules. Therefore he would have to fight it out/take a break test like any other unit.

Nurgling Chieftain
28-04-2010, 21:05
Yeah, seriously. If it were a normal warmachine he could spike it, but he cannot "withdraw" from it even then. And it's not a standard warmachine you can just spike, anyway.

L1qw1d
28-04-2010, 22:03
TY. Makes sense to me, and I will convey. Sorry about any...Greekness? I communicate oddly I don't mean to. heck, I'm still in my beginning phase.

Minsc
28-04-2010, 23:56
This isn't 40k - you cannot leave combat with a Steamtank.

The Unknown
29-04-2010, 07:38
[QUOTE=Atrahasis;4614871]I can't tell what you're actually asking.

The Tank cannot kill the dragon rider, as impact hits cannot hit the riders of monstrous mounts.


Yes you can hit the rider randomise impact hits (like shooting)

Milgram
29-04-2010, 07:59
read again - impact hits are only dealt to the mount/chariot. only exception (known to me): stegadon.

theunwantedbeing
29-04-2010, 09:07
Let me start with : This is not ME. I HAVE Druchii, but this is someone ELSE who had to roll to solve it.

Guy has One General (the big Mal) mounted on Dragon. over the course of the combat, Mal has been wounded until finally he has a wound left. Still on Dragon. Buddy charges with a Steam Tank. Kils Mal, gets Dragon to one Wound BUT:

Page 63 of the chariot rules under how impact hits work.
Impact hits never strike the rider of a monster/whatever.



Before he can do anything to resolve, guy says that he Withdraws- No soldiers are out of the Steam Tank, ergo, it is only a War Machine/ Object. Argue 20 minutes after checking D. Elves, Empire, and main 7th book. Moderator says "get the Die of Decision, and choose your 50%".

Nothig wrong with what the mod did, you were both incompetant enough to fail to find the rule that says he cant do that within 20 minutes.
Secondly, you should simply have looked to the empire steam tank rules and then the war machine rules.
Nothing says he can move out of combat...so he cant.



I'm curious, because it WASN'T during friendly play- it was during a full blown and largish Tournament. (Ended up being a Draw, instead of a near Win, and he noted the argument killed the fun he was having. to me, THAT was the big loss...)

No point going to a tournament if your not upto speed with the rules.

I use you meaning the druchii player, not you yourself L1qw1d.
It's just a case of both players not knowing the rules properly and one player probably being a cheat (the empire guy) and stalling for time.

soots
29-04-2010, 09:09
LOL.

WITHDRAW!

Is that like when your playing a computer game and you can save and restore?

Guy sounds like a complete douche, and the mod was even more so.

L1qw1d
29-04-2010, 15:27
Yeh, my buddy was broadsided by it, Being.

He's a fairly cool guy, and will let things slide or recall rules that affect him so long as it all makes sense (or in some cases is just cool lol).

He actually taught me a lot of the basics- but the guy just kept going back to the main book and trying to find holes.

I figure it's fairly normal to do sometimes, but if you're pushing for something that stops some one, and REALLY push for it... I guess I don't see the point at also pushing for his disadvantage. (Mind you, this is coming from someone who is OK with a Shadestar or 2 Hydras in a Tournament. I'm a bastard, but I'm a fair bastard!).

Leth Shyish'phak
02-05-2010, 01:14
read again - impact hits are only dealt to the mount/chariot. only exception (known to me): stegadon.

Yeah, Stegadons have those cool ramps attached to their faces so that chariots can drive up and over to squash the crew. :wtf:

sssk
02-05-2010, 16:49
So maybe the 8th ed rule book is rumoured to be 528 (ish) pages to solve problems like this:

Empire: "I'm going to reverse my steam tank"

.....20 minutes of argument......

Dark Elves: "I'm going to beat you round the face with this 528 page book"

Problem solved (not that I would advocate violence with regards to a game of course)

Milgram
02-05-2010, 20:08
300 pages hardcover are enough to hurt somebody.

especially if you put thumbtacks through the cover.

Grupax
03-05-2010, 15:19
you could "withdraw with the previous incantation of the steamtank if i'm not mistaken... so there could have been confusion.
Considering the 'arguments' he made I do have the impression he knew the steam tank could no longer do it but still tried to pull it off nontheless.

ah well, judges ruling :p

L1qw1d
03-05-2010, 15:52
I imagine some trucker type human shifting gears and the steam tank beeping as it slowly backs up.

I DO advocate violence. Often. Swiftly.

Oh, and I also advocate having 3 Assassin models and lining all 3 up on the side of the board (OPPOSITE of reinforcements), and writing on 2 sheets of paper "I'm screwing with your head".

Gaargod
03-05-2010, 20:27
The opponent was thinking of 6th ed steam tanks, where they weren't ever stuck in combat. Similar to tanks in 40k.