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View Full Version : URGENT! OFCC tournment deadline - next week, 2250 ALL GOBBOS



Jind_Singh
29-04-2010, 07:03
Hello all,

I have no choice in the matter - I HAVE to submit a list by end of next week to participate in a tournament in the US this summer. It's a team competition, there are comp scores, and it will be my FIRST ever national tournament event! I have only played at local GW stores before so I'm really excited!

It is also my last tournament in 7th edition, so what better way than to end the day than with one last outing with my lil Green warriors.

Forest Goblin Warboss, Porkas Pig Sticka, Iron Gnashas, Amulet of protectivness, Gigantic spider - 200pts

Night Goblin Big Boss, Gigantic Squig, light armor, shield, pipes of doom, sneaky skewerer, collar of Zorga - 134pts

Night Goblin Shaman, level 2, Horn of Urgok, Mushrooms - 135pts

Night Goblin Shaman, level 2, Itty ring, scroll, - 130pts

CORE

40 Goblins archers, shields, full command - 220pts
30 Night Goblin Spears, full command, netters, 1 fanatics - 200pts
30 Night Goblin hand weapons, full command, netters, 1 fanatics - 196pts
20 Night Goblin Archers, musician, 1 fanatic - 89ptspts
20 Night Goblin Archers, musician, 1 fanatic - 89ptspts

5 Spider Riders, bows, musician - 76pts
5 Spider Riders, bows, musician - 76pts
5 Wolf Riders, bows, musician - 75pts
2 Snotlings - 40pts
2 Snotlings - 40pts

SPECIAL

8 Squig Hoppers - 120pts
2 spear Chuckas - 70pts
2 spear Chuckas - 70pts
Goblin Wolf Chariot - 60pts
Goblin Wolf Chariot - 60pts


RARE

3 Trolls - 120pts
2 Pump Wagons - 80pts


Well? What do you all think?

happy_doctor
29-04-2010, 11:31
Ok, here's some thoughts:

-Core: you have more than enough redirectors, which is a good thing. However, you only have 3 units that can actually win a fight (occasionally) and every one of them represents a very big investment points-wise. If you have the models, try and get some more cheap gobbo units in, instead of so many snotlings/fast cavalry.
Fanatics work best if used as a one-time 2D6 s5 hit reaction against chargers. This way they won't get in your units' way and you'll probably get the most out of them. To do this you need more cheap infantry so as to deploy in a chequered patern. (front units receiving the charge and back units releasing their fanatics through them)

As it stands, it's fairly easy to draw fanatics from your units early on with cheap flyers or scouts and actually ruin your battle plan instead.

-Warboss: The pigstikka is only worth it if you get the charge off, and by putting your warboss inside a Mv4 infantry unit (where he belongs, being the only source of Ld8 in the army), you're denying yourself the chance to charge. A decent combo would be Shagga's Screaming Sword and Amulet of Protectyness, although you'll have to lose the Killing blow.

-If you can get the points for it, give your NG big boss a Battle Standard. I never leave home without it, although that's personal preference.

-River Trolls: Is there something that 3 river trolls can do better than 5 regular trolls? For 200 points, you'll be getting a bigger, more resilient to shooting unit that can auto-break units like knights and the such. Deploy them 4-wide and watch them go! Plus, if you really feel like it, you can deploy your warboss with them and get a troll deathstar! (not a very good idea, but very cool nonetheless)

ColShaw
29-04-2010, 14:28
I agree with happy_doctor that you need more infantry regiments. 3 is not at all sufficient; when using my Goblin 2250 list I have 5 fighting regiments, and often feel that's not enough.

Personally, I prefer the Kickin' Boots to the Iron Gnashas, taking up the same slot for very similar points, but that's a personal preference (I like my Warboss to be knocking over rank and file, and the extra attack is generally better than Killing Blow for doing that). I agree that the Warboss NEEDS to stay fairly close to the rest of your army; Goblin base leadership is not something to be relied upon.

A Battle Standard Bearer would be very handy.

Good Special choices; 4 Spear Chukkas is a very good number of them (more tend to clog your lines, but you don't want fewer).

I note you don't have much magic defense. One Scroll and 4 Dispel Dice isn't going to do you much good against an even moderately magic-heavy list, and Lord help you if you go up against a Slaan.

Jind_Singh
29-04-2010, 16:26
I agree - I will need more expendable units to bulk out my army.

By dropping 1 unit of spider riders I can replace it with a unit of Night Goblin archers - they cost just 60pts, maybe I'll throw in musician to take it to 63pts.

By droping extra chariot crew member, 1 unit of snotlings, and 1 squig hopper will give me another unit of 20 archers

River Trolls - just said River Trolls because new models are coming out, however I am very much taken by the idea of using a unit of 4-5 trolls though! Would players have a problem with me using what is clearly a river troll model as a normal troll or should I convert up the battle for skull pass trolls - i have 6 of them but the mono-pose is so dull!

Warboss - Fair enough, in most chances he won't get to charge - but I'll play test the army this week if I get the chance to see how that works out. IF it turns out the charge doesn't happen i'll give him another magic weapon.

BSB - My original plan was to take BSB with posion banner to make the 40 common gobbos have posion - 40 posion arrer shots! But I don't really have the points, AND the biggest thing is I HAVE to take the Night Goblin on Giant Squig - he's just too cool a model to leave home without, he's a must-take for the character slot.

sssk
29-04-2010, 19:36
I agree with everyone else. Cut down on some supporting units and take some more big fighty units. Personally I've never found much use for snotlings, so I'd get rid of those. Wolves and spiders are much more effective. However I would drop the bows on the wolves and spiders. I find supporting units work best when they're very very cheap (maybe buy spears for the wolves just so that they can kill stuff on the charge).

I would drop the fanatics down to one in each unit, just because that always works best for me (otherwise there's tons of fanatics flying around and they tend to cause me as much pain as my opponent....if not more).

I might also be tempted to drop the trolls down to a unit of 1 single troll. 1 troll has well over a billion different uses (FACT) and as it's likely to fail its stupidity test quite a bit (I'm not going to do the maths, but with a leadership 8 warboss, it'll be about 40% of the time), but when it's only a single troll, that doesn't matter so much. I have had success with a unit of 3 trolls before, but they just aren't as effective in my opinion.

I've never used pump wagons, so I can't really comment on them. However I will say that in my opinion, the doom diver is the best piece of artillery in the game (or at least very very very close to being the best), so those pump wagons had better do something pretty spectacular to make up for the units of knights/skirmishers/single characters which you could be flattening.

Can't fault your special choices. Personally I take 2 squig hopper units (because they're fun), but I suppose with the pump wagons in there, you don't need another squig unit, and the extra spear chukkas should be useful.

My most important points will revolve around your characters. I've never quite understood the shaman on a chariot thing. Maybe it works, but if so, should you not tool him up for combat in some way? I tend to think that 2 night goblin shamen, one with the staff of "steal a power dice and make it a dispel dice" and the other with whatever you like (I tend to use the brimstone bauble for comic effect) are most effective. They're relatively cheap and effective.

I quite like the boss on the giant squig, and the pipes of doom are always amusing. However he's very unreliable. If you want to win, then don't take him. If you want a laugh, then keep him in there.

As for your warboss, there's been some debate over what to give him. I'd say "don't". I played quite a few games trying to get my warboss to be useful, and came to a very clear conclusion. Goblins are not made for fighting. My warboss goes into a fight on a wolf, with light armour, a shield (sometimes the enchanted shield) and the akrit axe (sometimes just a spear). In that set up he's cheap as chips, still fulfills his main role well (leadership, the wolf allowing him to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there). And if he gets in a fight (his secondary role) with the akrit axe particularly, he can deliver a few kills to swing the fight. I found that tooling a goblin up was like putting makeup on a pile of poo. It might look good, but it'll still squish when someone stands on it.

With the points that you make from taking anything out, spend it on more core goblins I'd probably go with a 3:1 ratio (maybe 5:2) of combat goblins to bow goblins.

So there you go. That's my advice, take it or leave it as you see fit. I do very strongly suggest that if you pay attention to any of it, you consider my words regarding character set up.

Nocculum
29-04-2010, 23:05
40 Goblins archers, shields, full command - 220pts


Split into two units of twenty, no command, no shields.


5 Spider Riders, bows, musician - 76pts
5 Spider Riders, bows, musician - 76pts
5 Spider Riders, bows, musician - 76pts
5 Wolf Riders, bows, musician - 75pts
5 Wolf Riders, bows, musician - 75pts

I'm very tempted to say remove all the musicians, and utilise those Spears more, :angel:

That should give you a fair few points for another unit!

sssk
30-04-2010, 08:46
Split into two units of twenty, no command, no shields.

I'm very tempted to say remove all the musicians, and utilise those Spears more

That should give you a fair few points for another unit!

As much as I hate to go completely against another tactician, this advice flies totally in the face of everything I would suggest.

EDIT: Except the spears, take spears, they're great.

First of all, goblin units need to be big enough to soak up casualties, therefore I'd say minimum 30 per unit, preferably 35-40, and for your boss's unit 40-45. Having a unit of 20 (particularly with the near legendary resilience of goblins) means that any 10 man missile unit (or at least 2 such units) can easily panic the unit after one round of shooting, a wizard with a 2 D6 strength 4 magic missile will reek havoc etc.

Regarding musicians, I consider them to be in the cost of the unit. ie a unit of 20 goblins with bows costs 64 (65?) points, not 60. The musician is so integral to many tactics they just can't be left at home. For instance, consider your unit flees from a charge (as often happens with goblins, so that you can countercharge) with a musician in the unit, and your warboss nearby, that unit suddenly has the same leadership as your average dwarf, and therefore rallies relatively easily (particularly important for fast cav). Also, when fighting a unit in combat, there's nothing worse than losing because they had some idiot with a bongo and you didn't have a guy with a trumpet. For the few points that a musician costs, they're more than worth it.

Anyway, once again, that's just my opinion. Play things as you see fit (each general has his own preferences).

Do you have a revised list/anything to say on your thoughts? When has the list got to be in by?

ColShaw
30-04-2010, 14:10
Always, ALWAYS take Musicians for anything that might possibly run away, and want to come back again. Especially with Goblins.

Jind_Singh
30-04-2010, 17:24
I'm a big fan of musicians myself - they are almost essential to the cause - my fast cav rally on ld 7 if they are far from the generals leadership bubble, and ld 9 if he is close by - not bad for the 6pts!

The pump wagons were taken over the more effective doom diver thanks to their beautiful looking models - I have the new model and one from the generation prior. In gaming terms they are VERY hit and miss - either they will cause havoc or they will be like wet blankets!!!

I am also thinking I might need more combat units - I was talking to an experienced Gobbo player and he takes 5 units of 30 NG with msc, std, netters, 1 fanatic, and about 2-3 units of 20 archers, giant, 2 units of snotlings, 3 trolls, 2 spear chuckas, 2 rock lobbas, 9 squig hoppers, level 2 NG, level 2 shaman on chariot, gobbo general on spider, BSB with re-roll panic test standard - my army is hampered by the fact I wanted certain models in there.

What does everyone think about the spears - should I switch them for h/w & sld?
And I need to get, I think, at least another unit of 30 gobbos in there - so I can have 4 combat units.

Stuffburger
30-04-2010, 17:47
The only reason I run spears is because I like having a lot of variety in my army. Paying 1 point to lose an AS and gain a WS2 S3 attack rarely pays off in my experiance- specifically, when you get charged by really weak troops (up to about state troops) or S5+ stuff that won't let you save anyways, though the extra 5 S3 WS2 attacks vs. something that nasty is of dubious value. It's probably a good bet against unbreakable stuff too where all you want to do is kill but a good opponent won't try to tarpit your 100 point unit of goblins.

I'd axe the spears and a unit of snotlings. That'd net you 100 points, enough for a 26 strong unit of goblins w/ FC.

ColShaw
30-04-2010, 18:48
I like having the spears, personally, for the following reasons:

1) my 2250 point army fills up my entire deployment zone anyway, so scraping the points for an extra unit doesn't matter as much as one might think;

2) you don't HAVE to use the spears. You always have the choice of going Hand Weapon/Shield in combats, so you're not paying a point to lose an option, as is often suggested; you're paying a point to have an additional option you may or may not want to use;

3) spears are handy for things like Giants, poorly armored but Stubborn, high-Leadership, will not flee unless you kill them. Winning combat isn't sufficient against them;

4) most importantly, I built my Gobbo army off a core of 2 Skull Pass sets, and that gave me a huge number of Goblins with spears.

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 15:31
Ahhh Poo! I miscalculated in a big way when I was drawing up the list, I somehow added 250 more points in - this is really going to hurt! Look at the top of the page for a new list

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 15:42
The only way I could get a 4th combat unit, and a 3rd unit of archers, would be to drop all my fast cav, snotlings, which is a scary prospect as I've never gone to battle with out distracting units like fast cav/expendable and dependable snotlings

I am still very much taken with the combat orientated general as I play very aggressively with the Goblins and 8 times out of 10 the units I want to charge will charge. He's a gamble - if it pulls off than he adds 3 more str 5 attacks with WS5 - that's respectable!

Sadly I'm now stuck with 3 basic trolls - the only way around this is to make my level 2 shaman a night goblin, stick him on foot, and points saved on chariot allows me a forth troll (or river troll upgrade).

I really don't see myself dropping my specials/rares - I'll need them in battle - so the juggling has to come with the core/characters.

As for the common gobbos - they are pricey but I'm modeling them to look like a Roman Legion Turtle formation (Shields form a 'box'), so kind of keen to take them - plus no one really uses them so I thought I'd be their ambassador.

Well - what can we do with this list??

sssk
01-05-2010, 15:45
Looks better now.

I'd still consider dropping 2 trolls and vast quantities of equipment from the characters to provide enough points for another combat unit.

Also on a small side note, isn't 5 wolves with bows and musician 71 points, not 75? (and I'd still swap the bows for spears...and drop the bows on the spiders).

Is there anything specific you're unsure about? or is that list around about where you want it to be?

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 16:44
my main issue is that if I nerf the characters for a 4th combat unit I'll lose the magical edge - even with just 2 level 2s I've found most people still have to pay attention in the magical phase due to my high level bound items like the horn.
If I can pull off the horn and then hit the pipes of doom off there is a better chance to make units panic - which is a bonus.
And with the lord something I've done many a time, which people really don't expect, is to charge him out the unit by himself, send in the 18" charge of a wolf chariot to smash an enemy unit - it's great as people don't expect the charge and sometimes let me get a really good overun!!!
But though the list is kind of settling into something I like, I'd really like to hear how I could make it better!!

Thanks for all this help everyone, really appreciated!

rtunian
01-05-2010, 16:45
one problem, perhaps:


goblin shaman, lv 2, itty ring, scroll, chariot - 198

this character costs 195 points, so i have to assume that you have added 3 points for extra crew or steed on the chariot. this is faq'd illegal i'm afraid:



Q: are chariots for characters to ride bought as a special unit like in other army books?
A: no, they are bought and treated exactly like a monstrous mount. this also means that no options can be bought for these chariots (the options are only for the chariots bought as special units), and that the victory points for the chariot are awarded separately from the character riding it, exactly like in the case of a monstrous mount

so with that extra 3 points, i'd add 1 bowgob to one of your units of 20. i like the list, but i personally prefer 1 lobba to a second pair of chuckas. lobba's get a bad rap for some reason, but they are the bees knees. good luck~

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 17:03
I THOUGHT so with the chariot - it must be a bug in Army Builder, I was wondering why it kept pricing it at 63pts! Thanks Rtunian! Now I need to find 1 pt from somewhere to get 4 pts free to bring the spears up to 30 strong!

As for Lobba v's the 2 spear chuckas - this is something that has torn me in 2 - on the one hand a single lobba can wreak havoc, but 2 more chuckas is really handy v's large targets!

I have, up until now, ran one of each, but I went for 2 chuckas! Maybe I'll add a voted poll to see which way to go?!

rtunian
01-05-2010, 17:56
with a unit of 40 bowgobs, 2x 20 bowgobs, and 2x spear chucka, i'd say you've got large targets on their toes already. plus, you can always lobba at the large target and hope for scatter onto the enemy lines....

sssk
01-05-2010, 18:33
an interesting connundrum.

When I used to play dwarfs, I used a pair of stone throwers to great effect. They also have the added bonus that you don't have to roll to hit, but obviously the drawback that they might explode. Also, with enough spear chukkas, you get a pretty good chance of getting flank shots at things.

I often have days when my spear chukkas just can't hit for the life of them (literally, as they then get killed), whereas a stone thrower is always going to leave a dent in something (though it often leaves a dent in the ground or itself)

I would probably take the rock lobba if I were you, just for a different dynamic.

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 18:55
ayiiee! this is a tough choice! I see the wisdom in both choices, it's hard unless I drop the wolf chariot from my specials and grab a rock lobba in it's place.....

sssk
01-05-2010, 19:21
and have 5 artillery pieces?

don't do that. I would still be tempted to drop the shaman's chariot

Jind_Singh
01-05-2010, 20:12
what would you do with the spare 60pts if I were to drop the chariot mount?

sssk
01-05-2010, 20:44
pop in a load more gobbos (as I've said, I'd also drop a couple of trolls).

I just don't really see what having a shaman on a chariot does for him. If anything he wants the protection of a unit and then to run away before combat starts, rather than rushing headlong into combat.

Obviously it's a nice way to effectively get another special choice, but I think the cost of having to throw the shaman into combat is too great.

EDIT: obviously, if you like him, keep him. I'm just suggesting what I would do, but then maybe I have a very different play style to you. The variation in armies is what makes them great. Do you have time for some play testing, or is it a bit too close to the deadline now?

gork or maybe mork
01-05-2010, 20:54
I actually think that doom divers work better than rock lobbers. I think you'd do better switching one or both of your rare choices out for doom divers and leaving the specials the same.
Doom divers can actually hurt most of the rock lobbers targets (albeit on 5s) but are much more accurate, as things like dragons have bases so large they are always hit partially. Also, doom divers are good at taking out fast/heavy cavalry once the big things are dead.
I have 4 chukkas and 2 doom divers in my 2250 list, and they can take down things like dragons and steam tanks fairly quickly.

Jind_Singh
03-05-2010, 05:58
Turns out that Orcs and Goblins are allowed FIVE specials, so I downgraded shaman into Night Goblin Shaman, put the chariot as a separate special choice, and gave the Big Boss light armor/shield, and the 29 NG spears went up to 30!

Yeay for playing O & G - we get an extra special!

Kalandros
03-05-2010, 06:16
Lucky you have this rule at your tournament~

I want 6 special choices for my All gobbo army :[ 2x Squig herds, 4 chukkas, 2 chariots!