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WarmbloodedLizard
30-04-2010, 00:11
I'd really like to start ogres, but my main opponent plays Dwarves and Wood Elves. From my experience with Lizardmen, I just don't see ogres having much of a chance against those two armies. (esp. since he often takes light to medium gunlines) what do you think?

Urgat
30-04-2010, 00:20
I think you're right. Shooting is the bane of my ogres, so playing mainly against dwarfs and woodies... usually, i'm the fluff player and would recommend to go ahead regardless, but in this very case, it might really just be a frustrating experience, and nothing else.
That being said, OK might play completly differently with 8th ed rules, so who knows.

it's coming this way!
30-04-2010, 00:24
I would say primarily that if you want to start ogres, that's exactly what you should do! They're a fun, characterful army that you can get really into as both a player and hobbyist. And they have gnoblar trappers. It's really a win-win.

Game-wise, you could have some trouble with gunline lists, but try throwing gorgers at him to disrupt his lines, or yhetees to attack WElves hiding in woods. Poke around over at the ogre stronghold and see what they find works for them-- there're some exceptional generals on that site.

bigcheese76
30-04-2010, 00:27
Well, I personally play a slightly shooty Dwarf army and I have found that against Ogres I do very well, especially in low point games. I think this is because my guns are able to weaken the already low model count army before it gets a chance to do what it does best and get into combat and start dealing some damage. So I would say they really arent the best choice for fighting Dwarves.

Zinch
30-04-2010, 01:00
So I would say they really arent the best choice for fighting Dwarves.

As a Dwarf player I have to say that NO army is a good option for fighting Dwarves ;)

I think that if you realy like them, go for it! Against dwarves using gnoblars as a screen can help and against WE... I don't know, I have no experience against them...

As It's coming this way said, listen (or read ;)) to more experienced generals and go for the challenge!

~PrometheuS~
30-04-2010, 01:36
If you played orges you would most likely lose 95 percent of games, if that doesnt bother you, go ahead and collect them, once painted up an orge army looks great :)

The_Bureaucrat
30-04-2010, 01:42
The Skrag list can do pretty well against dwarfs, trappers are a must too . I have hard time vs WE with my ogres but it depends a lot on composition.

meneroth
30-04-2010, 03:11
another thing to make sure to have if your going with ogres is terrain. the whole "open field" battle thing is as much a no-go for ogres as it is for wood elves. make sure youve got at least one forest (preferably two) between you and the opponent in all your games. send in those yetis through the woods and let them go to work.

thechosenone
30-04-2010, 04:34
You'd think by now someone would just sticky this topic. "Ogres are not great under the current rules; play them if you like them, don't play them to win."

Jind_Singh
30-04-2010, 07:08
Bah humbug! I have been playing my Ogres non-stop recently:

High Elves - I massacred them
High Elves - I massacred them (Another player)
Dwarves - Solid victory to me
Warriors of Chaos - I massacred them
All Goblins - DRAW!!!!
Empire - They beat me - BUT it was my 1st ever game using Ogres so I don't think it counts, lol

But the Ogres can do well, if used well. My recent success has come from my deployment - typically any battlefield often gets divided by terrain pieces, for e.g. you'll normally find one flank is split into two - forming a smaller battlefield within the larger. I will start deploying my bulls, gnoblars (if taken) in the center facing the enemy. Lead belchers then go down in the center. I will then put 1 unit of Iron guts in the center - all the while making the opponent think I am going to smash through the center - then I'll put the other 3 units of ironguts, tyrant, 2 butchers on the flank split by terrain...1 butcher in the center - this throws the enemy off as they don't have the power to stop me smashing their flank. Bold 12" marches in turn 1 means the center forces are in their face before you can say boo - I'll also place 8 trappers hidden somewhere to either march block, unleash fanatics, or throw sharp stuff at enemy units.

Against the dwarves I was lucky as my opponent was a fluff player, he loves his blocks of troops and though he had some missile troops he wasn't a gun line player.

But the main thing is you go for the army you like the look of - you'll be collecting, building, and painting them - you can't go for an army that is 'wicked' it has to be something you'll love - go Ogres!!!!

And who knows - maybe 8th ed is going to help us out, I won't be surprised to see new army book soon!!!

Urgat
30-04-2010, 07:54
Bah humbug! I have been playing my Ogres non-stop recently:

High Elves - I massacred them
High Elves - I massacred them (Another player)
Dwarves - Solid victory to me
Warriors of Chaos - I massacred them
All Goblins - DRAW!!!!
Empire - They beat me - BUT it was my 1st ever game using Ogres so I don't think it counts, lol

Nice list. Now, did those players fight against ogres before? Because when I've started my army, I've won my 10 first games by a huge margin, my opponents clearly didn't know what to do, hesitated, etc. Then they got that it was more impressive to look at than to fight, and all of a sudden I still got massacres, excepted I was the one massacred.
I'm not saying he shouldn't go for it, but he has the right to know that, considering who he is going to be facing, he is going to be severly gimped. Yeah he could use gorgers and yeetees, he could pack up on them to try and balance things out, but:
1) after the first time, your opponents will expect it
2) everybody knows what usually happens when you count on only two or three units to win
3) it'd make for very boring and one-dimensionnal games. Either the gorgers prove unstoppable and win you the battle, either the checker formation the dwarfs took because they knew the gorgers were coming leaves them stranded. On shootting phase and two dead gorgers later, well... checkmate.

Durloth
30-04-2010, 12:52
I usually do OK against Dwarfs at tournaments and I think people are exaggerating how bad the Ogre Kingdoms army is. I have yet to end up much below the middle of the result list and have several times been playing at the top tables. Especially in smaller games the Ogres really shine.

That being said, Wood Elves are the worst match up for the ogres and I can probably count on one hand how many games against woodies I have survived the full six rounds, as they are so much better in both shooting and combat that the ogres small advantage in movement and magic just isn't enough.

~PrometheuS~
30-04-2010, 14:27
Bah humbug! I have been playing my Ogres non-stop recently:

High Elves - I massacred them
High Elves - I massacred them (Another player)
Dwarves - Solid victory to me
Warriors of Chaos - I massacred them
All Goblins - DRAW!!!!
Empire - They beat me - BUT it was my 1st ever game using Ogres so I don't think it counts, lol

But the Ogres can do well, if used well. My recent success has come from my deployment - typically any battlefield often gets divided by terrain pieces, for e.g. you'll normally find one flank is split into two - forming a smaller battlefield within the larger. I will start deploying my bulls, gnoblars (if taken) in the center facing the enemy. Lead belchers then go down in the center. I will then put 1 unit of Iron guts in the center - all the while making the opponent think I am going to smash through the center - then I'll put the other 3 units of ironguts, tyrant, 2 butchers on the flank split by terrain...1 butcher in the center - this throws the enemy off as they don't have the power to stop me smashing their flank. Bold 12" marches in turn 1 means the center forces are in their face before you can say boo - I'll also place 8 trappers hidden somewhere to either march block, unleash fanatics, or throw sharp stuff at enemy units.

Against the dwarves I was lucky as my opponent was a fluff player, he loves his blocks of troops and though he had some missile troops he wasn't a gun line player.

But the main thing is you go for the army you like the look of - you'll be collecting, building, and painting them - you can't go for an army that is 'wicked' it has to be something you'll love - go Ogres!!!!

And who knows - maybe 8th ed is going to help us out, I won't be surprised to see new army book soon!!!

The people you play are new to the game?

Ive played orges a few times now, and massacred every single time, they an extremely weak army and when you go up against an good player, you will get picked apart

Use to love using WE against them, my 20 glade gaurd would almost win the game on there own, deply an inch back, so 25 apart and have 3 turns of shooting, and also marcher blocking them with glade riders, poor guys be lucky to hit combat by 4th turn.... lol even then if would only be the 20 archers shooting at them, as they wouldnt be able to catch much else

BigbyWolf
30-04-2010, 14:57
Use to love using WE against them, my 20 glade gaurd would almost win the game on there own, deply an inch back, so 25 apart and have 3 turns of shooting, and also marcher blocking them with glade riders, poor guys be lucky to hit combat by 4th turn.... lol even then if would only be the 20 archers shooting at them, as they wouldnt be able to catch much else

Perhaps the person you played was new to the game?

20 Glade Guard shots per turn is fairly easy to screen against (mmmm, Gnoblars). Likewise march blockers can be put to flight by MSU Leadbeltchers, and Gorgers just love attacking from the rear of your battle line.

~PrometheuS~
30-04-2010, 15:00
Perhaps the person you played was new to the game?

20 Glade Guard shots per turn is fairly easy to screen against (mmmm, Gnoblars). Likewise march blockers can be put to flight by MSU Leadbeltchers, and Gorgers just love attacking from the rear of your battle line.

it wasnt just 1 person, played a few orge players in my time, and i would love to see gnoblars in front of orges, they bicker and the orges wont be getting to you till turn 5 lol

Yeah leadbeltchers are good, 2 of them pwned my 5 blood knights in a tourn agers ago lol, but against my dark elves, they dont often get to fire :)

Memnos
30-04-2010, 15:06
Ogres are a great army, as long as you play either the MSU leadbelcher list that guarantees you a flank charge and many S4 AP shots or the Gnoblar Screen list.

The problem isn't that Ogres are bad, but that every successful Ogre army looks almost identical.

Jind_Singh
30-04-2010, 17:03
The people you play are new to the game?

Ive played ogres a few times now, and massacred every single time, they an extremely weak army and when you go up against an good player, you will get picked apart

The 1st High Elf player is a veteran, 2500pt game, he had the really powerful dragon, dragon princes, sword masters, the works

The 2nd High Elf Player I'd say was a medium ranked player - not a newb but not a vet

The Dwarf Player is a solid vet

Warriors of Chaos general is a GW staffer, but than being said he's 40K 1st, fantasy 2nd

Gobbo General is a seasoned vet

Jind_Singh
30-04-2010, 17:08
Nice list. Now, did those players fight against ogres before? Because when I've started my army, I've won my 10 first games by a huge margin, my opponents clearly didn't know what to do, hesitated, etc. Then they got that it was more impressive to look at than to fight, and all of a sudden I still got massacres, excepted I was the one massacred.


A valid point

1st HE Player - he has an Ogre Army himself
2nd HE Player - He has seen the Ogres in action, but not faced them
Dwarf Player - 1st time in 7th ed, but he saw them in previous eds
WoC Player - 1st time Ogre game
Gobbos - Played them many a time

My only take away is the 1st HE player is an experienced WHFB player, had a really tough tournament list, and knows exactly what the ogres can do - but I was able to out general him, and still surprise him with my character selection.

TMATK
30-04-2010, 22:49
Blue Table painting did a batrep a while back with house rules to help out the ogres - http://bluetablepainting.blogspot.com/2010/01/gah-ogres-are-coming.html