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Rewision
30-04-2010, 12:53
After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:

Best start point is to use this pic as a reference.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/6262398/images/1255501389758.jpg

The warriors are not striding forward and hunched over like they are about to tip over- legs are laid out in a wide stance and the models are much, much better proportioned than the old ones, so no more legs that go all the way up and tiny torsos.
Helmets and non helmeted heads included.
Non helmeted head has a high ponytail.
Ribs/shards of bone poke through loincloths and the ponytail.
The helmets are pretty much identical to the above pic, but with lumps/gems over the ears/temples.
From behind the helmets look exactly like eldar guardian ones.
There is a gem/soulstone on the left chest armour- not the shoulder armour piece as per the above pic.
This is where you have to use your imagination as the pic doesn't show it: On the back there is a backpack that looks like it started as an eldar backpack but does not stick out as far, has vestigal 'vanes' compared to the eldar one (so doesn't stick up above the shoulder) and most excellently down the centre of the backpack, it is recessed with scaled armour over the spine (triangular scales with points downwards)
A high collar that flanges out
Rifle is almost exactly the same as the pic for the base model, even down to the jagged bit that pokes up in front of the warriors abdomen in the pic. There is a variant with what looks to be crossbow arms sticking out laterally (ends up looking like a mini anchor)
Attachable Loincloths (variable designs) One has a skull, one a hook on them.
As per the pic, greaves over the lower legs, then knee pads and scales over the upper legs, with points upwards.
Knife scabbard, 2 'rods' and 2 small sachels on the 'utility belt' posteriorly
Blades of differing lengths and size on various armour parts, primarily lower legs and shoulder pads.
Curved knife HW available.
Attachable blades for the end of splinter rifle.

The models will be about as close to the source pic as you can imagine, and finally GW does concept art proud.

From Dakka

Take it with a pinch of salt. Sorry if posted somewhere already

jmefr8
30-04-2010, 13:02
Wow I'm definately getting these if they look even half as good as that. Love the colour too much better scheme than I've seen on most dark eldar I may have to use it :D

Old School
30-04-2010, 13:02
Sounds good, I wonder if we'll get any 'breasticle' chest plates and female heads? Would be cool.

Sildani
30-04-2010, 13:05
Very nice info! Thanks.

The idea of a spirit stone on a Dark Eldar is... odd. What does this portend in the background?

Finally, it seems like the Dark Elves impacted the new design of the Dark Eldar. I have no problem with that.

As for paint scheme, I'm thinking of painting mine white with red secondary color. The Coven of the Divine Wind.

orkz222
30-04-2010, 13:05
hmmm interesting thx for sharing. closer to DE release cant wait.

Raibaru
30-04-2010, 13:09
Sounds absolutely amazing.

I wonder if that weapon that looks like an anchor could be a splinter cannon? From the comment I'm not sure I understand if it's the same size as the rifle, or more a pistol weapon though?

But I absolutely love the concept art. I like how they look very much Eldar now and all the spikes are much more subtle.

Raibaru
30-04-2010, 13:12
Very nice info! Thanks.

The idea of a spirit stone on a Dark Eldar is... odd. What does this portend in the background?

Finally, it seems like the Dark Elves impacted the new design of the Dark Eldar. I have no problem with that.

Well the way I am looking at it, they've moved the Dark Eldar further away from the slaaneshii worshippers they could be confused with in the original fluff. It also helps tie them into the Eldar more and shows they have the same dread of being consumed.

Maybe the Dark Eldar store the souls of those they kill in them and turn them into their lords after a raid or something.

Either way would be fine with me :)

Sildani
30-04-2010, 13:14
Yeah, that makes a bit of sense as a soul-storage battery. I honestly can't wait. Please, God-win, give us good-looking Wyches! Amen!

Max_Killfactor
30-04-2010, 13:35
Later on he says:


The other pic in the rulebook (of the DE assault vs IG).
The backs of the leaping warriors do not look anything like the models I saw.
That is not to say they may be another type of DE trooper (one I haven't seen)


I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.

They were pretty coy with the last couple of releases and except for me stumbling over their Beastmen promo poster several days before it was released for (I guess promotion) and putting pics online they managed to keep pretty much everything on the lowdown for that release until they wanted to release the pics (excepting the 'pumbagor').



Also there are no pics- I did not know they would be on show and did not have my camera.

It was an 'eyes only' event.


Sounds too good to be true.

Here's a link to the thread on Dakka for those in disbelief: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/292253.page

evilsponge
30-04-2010, 13:38
Sounds legit since the poster is claiming to have seen them with his own eyes instead of the usual "a friend of a friend of a black shirt" rubbish. Also gives a concrete month of announcement and actual release. Much earlier than i would've thought.

evilsponge
30-04-2010, 13:39
Later on he says:



Sounds too good to be true.

It does, especially when it comes to DE, but other than a White Dwarf supplement there is no other releases for 40k throughout the entire summer.

Scelerat
30-04-2010, 13:44
ooOOOOOooo.... I hope these are real. My CWE need a little brother to play with. A little, michievious brother with flashy jaw-dropping models.
Also, August? That is my birthday! Bring it on!
But, DPA recently implied that GKs were going to be released in August. As I said before, either way it makes financial sense: DEs sandwiched between 8th ed WHFB rulebook (July) and the starter set (September), two things that will sell like hot cakes. GKs in October would add up to that.
Of course, it is also perfectly logcal if it happens the other way around: GKs and then DEs in October.
I guess we'll have to wait a little bit longer to get some confirmation from the usual rumour-mongers.

Sildani
30-04-2010, 14:09
Just a thought: if DE are released in August then their second wave could be released in October/November, in time for the holidays. That could be a good way to recoup their risky investment. GK would get the full new-army blowout for the holidays then, along with their (presumed) new plastics. And hey, new plastic Marines sell well.

Hashmal
30-04-2010, 14:43
Should this prove true, I like what I hear. They sound incredible. I hope the gun isn't as spindly as it was before.



Finally, it seems like the Dark Elves impacted the new design of the Dark Eldar. I have no problem with that.


Considering my current Archon is a 4-armed Corsair, I don't either. :D

Hoarmurel
30-04-2010, 15:07
Well, sounds pretty good indeed. However i would wait for another confirmation for the DE August release, because all is pointing that would be the GK the army to come out then.

Thank you for the info ;)

jspyd3rx
30-04-2010, 15:57
Well either DPA or Gonad is wrong. Or maybe GW just switched releases. Who knows. So annoying with this rumor lock down. It's like they don't know that you can build hype for a release.

Ol'Sarge2K
30-04-2010, 16:06
Necron Dark Elves, Oh Noes!

Vhalyar
30-04-2010, 16:09
Well, sounds pretty good indeed. However i would wait for another confirmation for the DE August release, because all is pointing that would be the GK the army to come out then.

Thank you for the info ;)

Yeah, the way he wrote the line about an August release reads like he's speculating/going by a gut feeling. This is compounded by DPA's most recent comments. Hopefully he reads my post and clarifies where this information is coming from :p

Idaan
30-04-2010, 16:20
Very nice info! Thanks.

The idea of a spirit stone on a Dark Eldar is... odd. What does this portend in the background?

Note that the gems on Craftworld Eldar armour aren't spirit stones: it is said that these are worn on chest and in contact with bare skin. Besides, it would be pretty unwise to put them on armour where any stray shot could destroy them. So the gems on DE can be just some random gems as well.

That said I like the soul-repository idea, and the new direction even more! Hope that it proves true.

Col. Custard
30-04-2010, 16:31
Perhaps this will be the new version of taking prisoners? Since vps are all but dead, this would equal some kind of way that you would gain extra kps for the ammount of dead that are trapped, ect, such as you would have to meet certain conditions in order for them to apply.

This is all speculation, but it would make a little sense atleast if that proved true, so take as much salt as you can bear as I am just taking a guess.

jspyd3rx
30-04-2010, 16:37
Unless you fight crons which have no soul. What do nids have then if they have no soul?

silverstu
30-04-2010, 16:57
Interesting.. they sound great [although I'm not a big fan of that picture- not the design, the style of the drawing].
They sound alot closer to the craft worlders in design- the flip/darkside- excellent stuff.

I don't expect them to be out by august judging by what DPA said. They may show a few preview pics in wd early though to build the hype a bit- it is a big redo so they might want to start creating that buzz earlier than usual to ensure success.
Really looking forward to this release.

Ominous Anonymous
30-04-2010, 17:03
Unless you fight crons which have no soul. What do nids have then if they have no soul?

I thought Necrons did have souls, seeing as they used to be an ancient civilization.

Nids would just be a case of "wrong raid, wrong time".

blueraven84
30-04-2010, 17:09
So thirsty, must be all that salt, on the other hand would be nice to see one of the armies I started to play 40k return finally.

ursvamp
30-04-2010, 17:17
I don't know anything about how credible DPA is,

But does it Really make very much/any good sense that the y would release two marine-armies basically back to back?

Vhalyar
30-04-2010, 17:45
I don't know anything about how credible DPA is,

But does it Really make very much/any good sense that the y would release two marine-armies basically back to back?

I'm just going to paraphrase the other threads where this has been said/asked.

1) Space Marines -> Imperial Guard -> Space Wolves. Back to back Imperial releases.
2) The inverse is also true: Xenos -> Xenos releases have happened.
3) There is no Imperial -> Xenos 'cycle'. Half the armies in the game are Imperial, hence it's about trying to balance out the releases, not an adherence to a strict schedule.
4) One of the rumors is that DE got pushed back and GK pulled forward in the schedule.

So it does make sense, especially if there's been some shake-up in the schedule. In WHFB this can't really be noticed due to the faction variety, but in 40k this can easily result in back-to-back Imperial releases.

brassangel
30-04-2010, 17:54
I thought Necrons did have souls, seeing as they used to be an ancient civilization.

Nids would just be a case of "wrong raid, wrong time".

lol... so true.

Every army has an opponent they can't really do anything with, I suppose. Chaos and Dark Eldar need souls; rules out Tyranids. Tyranids need biomass; rules out Necrons. Orks need an opponent who can fight; rules out Tau. :D

ursvamp
30-04-2010, 18:12
I'm just going to paraphrase the other threads where this has been said/asked.

1) Space Marines -> Imperial Guard -> Space Wolves. Back to back Imperial releases.
2) The inverse is also true: Xenos -> Xenos releases have happened.
3) There is no Imperial -> Xenos 'cycle'. Half the armies in the game are Imperial, hence it's about trying to balance out the releases, not an adherence to a strict schedule.

Well. this actually doesn't have any relevance to what I asked, I'm sorry :(

I was referring to the fact that two Space Marine-armies would be released back to back, not that several armies of the same Allegiance was released together.
I don't see any reason why SM-IG-SW would be considered to be "thre space marine armies". The IG differ significantly from space marines, seeing as they are two completely different armies. just as much as Craftworld Eldar differ significantly from orks or tyranids. "Completely different armies differ more from eachother than two different flavours of the same army", was my point and what made me ask.
Your answer (though I do appreciate the work you put down in Really Trying to answer it! ANd I sincerely thank you!) did not give me any sort of answer as to my bewilderment :( sorry.

The question still stands, if anyone has an idea

massey
30-04-2010, 18:17
There is no rule that says they can't release marines back to back.

Meriwether
30-04-2010, 18:23
Pix or it didn't happen.

--Meri the skeptical

MajorWesJanson
30-04-2010, 18:48
DE in August then GK in Oct would fit my original prediction, and be much happier on my wallet :D

The warrior matching the concept art is a good sign. Also it sounds like some of the core model kits are in print, the warriors and raider/ravagers.

Tymell
30-04-2010, 18:58
Well, here's hoping it's [the original description] accurate anyway. As I felt when I first saw that piece of artwork, if the Dark Eldar models are as good as that, I will be a very happy player indeed.

reds8n
30-04-2010, 19:22
.. I don't think Dr. GOnads is talking about an August release for what it's worth. :)

Justicar Valius
30-04-2010, 20:00
Well I have been following DPAs comments in the spearhead rumour thread and sadly for you lot he has said: "The denzins of Comorragh will have to stay in the shadows for just a little while longer i'm afraid" and has spoken about GK getting a new shiny ride but alas not for spearhead.

Vineas
30-04-2010, 20:36
Yeah. Expect DE more toward Oct. Would make a hell of a GD announcement in September. A little birdie has whispered in my ear to not expect GK until 2011.

jspyd3rx
30-04-2010, 20:38
Mr. Gonads could just be under the impression that they are coming in august. Besides, grey k ights in august with their shiny new lander is going to go over very well.

Desert Rain
30-04-2010, 20:50
If the new Dark Eldar looks like the one on the picture they are going to be one of the most good-looking forces in 40k.

Starchild
30-04-2010, 20:58
But, DPA recently implied that GKs were going to be released in August.He did indeed, but the 3 month info blackout window allows GW to change plans on a whim. From a development standpoint, the new policy offers far more flexibility. And those plans can change-- even DPA admits that, and he may or may not have the most up-to-date information.

jspyd3rx
30-04-2010, 21:23
I never thought about it that way. Giving a blackout on rumors does allow them the freedom to change things up. We can't bitch about something we don't know about.

Vineas
30-04-2010, 21:25
I never thought about it that way. Giving a blackout on rumors does allow them the freedom to change things up. We can't bitch about something we don't know about.

Not been on Warseer long have you?

With this crowd someone could win $200M (that's million) dollars/pounds/Deutsch marks/whatever and they'd bitch because it wasn't $300M.

LOL.

Hoarmurel
30-04-2010, 21:52
[...]
The question still stands, if anyone has an idea

Well, GW has released before marines back to back with marines... If i'm not wrong, all the following releases for 40k were one after other:

1998-1999

December - Blood Angels
February - Chaos Space Marines
May - Dark Angels


2002-2003

October - Chaos Space Marines
February - Daemonhunters (grey knights)


2007

March - Dark Angels
September - Chaos Space Marines


I think all those are space marine guys :D



.. I don't think Dr. GOnads is talking about an August release for what it's worth. :)

Well, he has said (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/292253.page)that:


I'd say pics will appear Juneish 2 issues prior to their release in August.

I think is quite clear "release in August". If he's not talking about it, then i don't know what he is referring to...

Perhaps you can enlight us, just a little? :D

Seance
30-04-2010, 22:06
I'm tired of waiting. 12 years, ignoring the revision, which was minor. I've been hearing this for so long I am cynical. I know the three fellas they had working on it got sacked for leaking information, from concept art to speculative rules sets. Obviously some work was done. I'm at the ' I'll believe it when I see it ' stage. In the meantime I'll keep getting toasted by increasingly ridiculous space marine forces. Jaded much?

Azzy
30-04-2010, 22:08
Every army has an opponent they can't really do anything with, I suppose. Chaos and Dark Eldar need souls; rules out Tyranids. Tyranids need biomass; rules out Necrons. Orks need an opponent who can fight; rules out Tau. :D

:eek:

I can't deny.


Not been on the Internet long have you?

With this crowd someone could win $200M (that's million) dollars/pounds/Deutsch marks/whatever and they'd bitch because it wasn't $300M.

Fixed that for you. ;)

---

With all respect to Sir Gonads, I don't put much faith in DE in August. I wouldn't mind being wrong on that, but I don't believe I am.

Max_Killfactor
30-04-2010, 22:39
I never thought about it that way. Giving a blackout on rumors does allow them the freedom to change things up. We can't bitch about something we don't know about.

True, but we can bitch about not knowing :cool:

Vhalyar
30-04-2010, 23:53
In the meantime I'll keep getting toasted by increasingly ridiculous space marine forces. Jaded much?

Not to derail but, huh, the DE codex can still field a pretty mean and competitive list. Granted there's nearly zero variety because it's one list, but it's much more powerful than a couple of other codices.

Lord_Squinty
01-05-2010, 00:30
Since vps are all but dead, this would equal some kind of way that you would gain extra kps for the ammount of dead that are trapped, ect,

Or killed by splinter weapons?
Because , lets face it, all us DE players use splinter weapons for ATM is bragging rights if ANYTHING actually dies to them... :D

FEAR the 2+ save against splinter pistols Termies, - FEAR IT!!!! :evilgrin:

<edit>
Added -

Hmm, thats got me thinking...
From the DE snippets thread "Lots of poison weapons (close combat and ranged)."
Splinter weapons poisoned?
Not unreasonable fluff-wise..
Perhaps poisoned on a 5 or 6+?
Could be interesting and actually make us shoot our splinter weapons now instead of use them as ablative saves on dark lances ;)

Raven1
01-05-2010, 04:44
If this is true the models will in fact look nice. I've wanted to start a DE army for a while hopefully they will come out soon, of course I've been saying that for a while.

Lusall
01-05-2010, 07:41
As much as I'd hate to be a pessimist...(And I'm almost certain the Dark Eldar are coming) I have to say I'll believe it when I see it.

Benjambles
01-05-2010, 07:57
I can't believe how pessimitic this forum is... It doesnt matter how many rumour mongers say theyre on their way, people still dont believe. I quote Jervis's on the DE release in the thread in general. They Are Coming.

And I dont get the attitude of "I'll believe it when I see it." if thats the case why read rumours. As they're just that rumours, you cant see them.

Benjambles
01-05-2010, 08:02
I can't believe how pessimitic this forum is... It doesnt matter how many rumour mongers say theyre on their way, people still dont believe. I quote Jervis's on the DE release in the thread in general. They Are Coming.

And I dont get the attitude of "I'll believe it when I see it." if thats the case why read rumours. As they're just that rumours, you cant see them.

edit:

For anyone wondering


Well.. i spoke to Jervis at Salute today and whe i mentioned i was a dark eldar player he had a little grin and then said "Well your going to be happy, but not for a little while yet. But when you do see them, they'll blow your socks off"

I guess that kind of puts them nearer to the october timeslot that was suggested for them.

The Perry brothers we with us at the time (he was demo'ing their games), and Mike Mcvey on the stall next to where we were gaming. Ah good times...

Voltaneer
01-05-2010, 08:08
I can't believe how pessimitic this forum is... It doesnt matter how many rumour mongers say theyre on their way, people still dont believe. I quote Jervis's on the DE release in the thread in general. They Are Coming.

And I dont get the attitude of "I'll believe it when I see it." if thats the case why read rumours. As they're just that rumours, you cant see them.

Makes us 2 same thing with Jervis......:cool:

Vineas
01-05-2010, 08:10
Pessimists want an excuse to be unhappy.

Give a pessimist $300M dollars in US currency and he/she would bitch that it wasn't $400M dollars in US currency.

I'm a realist and even I can see that the DE rumors are going to come to fruition. I'm more optimistic than pessimistic so I'm slightly above middle.

Dark Muse
01-05-2010, 14:22
Pessimists want an excuse to be unhappy.

Give a pessimist $300M dollars in US currency and he/she would bitch that it wasn't $400M dollars in US currency.

OT but not true. Give a pessimist $300M and he/she would say most of it will go to taxes. A pessimist simply is inclined to anticipate the worst possible outcome. A pessimist is not inclined to complain for more, they are inclined to not expect anything in the first place.

Personally I am excited about the possibilities on a new DE codex. The new look will also be welcome, though that does mean phasing out my current models. It has been a long wait for dedicated DE players and I think we are entitled to a little skepticism and griping over the extremely long wait for a new codex.

The sleeker look appeals to me in that I do not quite get the whole "spikes || blades == evil" thing. I suppose it makes certain sense for the Chaos followers, but the DE do not follow Chaos. At least not in the current fluff.

The Laughing God
01-05-2010, 14:49
Here's the old 4th edition art from the rulebook. It seems that it matched up to the description as well.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100316164415/warhammer40k/images/9/9d/Dark_eldar.jpg

Raibaru
01-05-2010, 15:59
The reason people are skeptical (I'd hardly call them pessimists) is because this isn't the first time in the 10+ year gap between the DE release that we've been on the edge of an impending DE release. This is like the third time this has come up and while this one is certainly far more believable and substantial then the last, how can you honestly blame people for being dismissive?

Harry
01-05-2010, 16:23
... We can't bitch about something we don't know about.Your kidding ... thats what were best at. :D

I said it on the other thread ... I shall say it here.

The first Wave of models are done.

They are coming.

Hoarmurel
01-05-2010, 16:45
I said it on the other tread I shall say it here.

The first Wave of models are done.

They are coming.

Yep, i think this is well known for all the people around here, and thank you for remind it :)

The mandatory question now, is: When? :p

Harry
01-05-2010, 17:06
Yep, i think this is well known for all the people around here, and thank you for remind it :)

The mandatory question now, is: When? :p
... and I still don't know that.

jspyd3rx
01-05-2010, 17:30
How about for chicken pot pie with xtra thick bisquick crust ontop made with a very hearty and thick chicken gravy?

Raulengrin
01-05-2010, 17:58
I really do hope the bit about the Harlequins is true... The idea of sadistic, soul sucking space pirates, and clowns in the same army is too tempting to ignore.

I think an August release, however, is unlikely, especially if people expect Daemon Hunters/Grey Knights in October/November, and Necrons in January/February. This many codices, while not unprecedented in the least, seems like too many 40k books too quickly, especially with a new edition of fantasy to support.

BramGaunt
01-05-2010, 18:04
Well one of my sources was pretty sure that, after spearhead, we won't see anything from the grim dark future untill november. august will be a supportive month for Warhammer, lots of new shinie plastics, and october the first 8th edition warhammer armybook.

Still, I'd love to see the Dark Eldar ASAP

baphomael
01-05-2010, 19:48
Still, I'd love to see the Dark Eldar ASAP

Ditto. Of all the 40k races, I've most been exited about seeing what they can do with DE. They are the army I've most anticipated. I've never really played DE (aside from 1000pts when they were first released) but given the lack of fluff and the massive leaps and bounds sculpting quality has taken, I've been waiting to see what they do with them. I can full well expect their miniature range to be impressive indeed.

I just hope they dont lose (especially the Haemonculi) some of their Hellraiser vibe.

Ba'al Starslayer
02-05-2010, 07:50
I've heard from my local blackshirt (I know he's only a blackshirt hence take this with fish and chips...)
Dark Eldar Splinter Weaponry wounds targets on a 5+ (Poisoned) but retain the original Strength of 3 (Or 4 for the Cannon).
The more enemies that are captured (ie, 4+ after killing them in combat, sweeping over them etc...) gain the Dark Eldar additional abilities that work much like the Prayer system for SoB (This has "Soulstorm" written all over it if you ask me, but it doesn't sound bad). He did specifically tell me they would be getting one such ability that forces up to 3 enemy units (As chosen by you) to take an immediate Leadership test on -1.
May I just remind you that this is NOT concrete. Do NOT take this as a rumour (I know how some stuff like this is instantly taken as law).
This is just jabberings from my local Blackshirt. :)

Urban Shaman Commando
02-05-2010, 08:14
I always wondered where they came up with the DE stuff in Soulstorm. The people who did Soulstorm might have gotten inside information about what Dark Eldar will have in the next book. Especialy If the coming DE book was indeed heavily edited/redone after it was finished - it would fit the time frame more sensibly. This would kinda tie in with the ancient rumours about DE getting "arcane arts". Makes sense to me, but we'll see if it's true.

Harry
02-05-2010, 08:50
It wouldn't have happened like that. When a project starts the first thing they do is set down who the race is. What motivates them, the key elements of their character, beliefs, reason for being along with a synopsis of how they make war, army composition, tactics that sort of thing. Anything in fact which define the race and sets them apart from the others.

It is this that is shared with artists sculptors, writers to get the ball rolling then as they produce stuff they influence each other.

Whilst they might decide on big changes to the list and have some ideas for new units and stuff, the writing of the book, proper, does not start till a good while later ... almost a year into the project. (Although obviously the current book exists for things they know they are not changing).

Now in this case I think they were planning to make some big changes to the background so it is possible that the background was re-written in some depth before they got going this time.

This may be even more true with Jes involved. You only have to talk to Jes for 5 mints to understand how inspired he is by the 'reality' of the warhammer world. He really likes to understand how a machine works or an animal moves before he starts to sculpt. He does his research. It is, IMO, this depth of thinking/understanding that makes so much of his work so outstanding. It is the subtlety with which it is done which I like. An exhaust vent here, a plate of armour there. Bits you wouldn't even notice at first glance. Whether you talk about the Cold One knights for fantasy or an Eldar jet bike it is the thought given to how the rider would get into the saddle and use it in battle that fuels the design. It is this subtle realism that allows the suspension of disbelief so important to fantasy games.

I really am looking forward to this release.

Nightsword
02-05-2010, 10:17
I think Harry may have a man crush ;)

Lord Khabal
02-05-2010, 10:41
I just hope that they get here early, otherwise i'm doing tyranids...

shabbadoo
02-05-2010, 11:04
I think Harry may have a man crush ;)

Nah, he just recognizes a quality artist. Poor quality artists do things in ways that don't make sense. Jes doesn't do that, which is one of the reasons why he so highly regarded as an artist. His attention to detail is exceptional, and the fluidity of his poses and the cleanliness of his sculpts are among the best out there, and as Harry mentions, this aids in the willful suspension of disbelief that serves to immerse players in the the 40K milieu.

Jes is the man, so the DE ought to look amazing. It will be very hard to resist doing a DE army.

TrojanWolf
02-05-2010, 11:42
Good to hear that the new DE Warriors will look as awesome as the picture in the rulebook. I suppose they would have to look similar enough at any rate, since it'd be pretty silly to draw something like that and then sculpt something noticeably different.

It's been mentioned in another thread that the DE and the GK were rumoured to have August and October releases respectively, but that it was also liable to be swapped around for whatever reason. From what I've read on here they're both in the final stages of development, so it's pretty much a case of who gets there first.

Would certainly love to hear anything about plastic Wyches, especially if they're all female. I know it's not a case of Witch Elves in space, but you've gotta admit that those male Wyches are just about the most awful thing ever. Always the first to die when I field them.

Whatever happens, I'm 137.92% sure that I'll be replacing most (if not all) of my own DE army when these guys hit the shelves. Frankly, I'll probably walk into the store after having camped outside it overnight and say "Where's all the new DE stuff? I'll have it all."

Note: Please don't take anything I've written outside of the paragraph before this note (or about male Wyches) as concrete fact. I'm just posting stuff that's already been posted for the benefit of those who may not have seen it.

Harry
02-05-2010, 13:41
I think Harry may have a man crush ;)
No, no man love going on. It is just his sculpts I want to get my hands on. :D


Nah, he just recognizes a quality artist. Poor quality artists do things in ways that don't make sense. Jes doesn't do that, which is one of the reasons why he so highly regarded as an artist. His attention to detail is exceptional, and the fluidity of his poses and the cleanliness of his sculpts are among the best out there, and as Harry mentions, this aids in the willful suspension of disbelief that serves to immerse players in the the 40K milieu.

Jes is the man, so the DE ought to look amazing. It will be very hard to resist doing a DE army.
Yup. This.
You said it better than I did.

Meriwether
02-05-2010, 13:50
I think Harry may have a man crush ;)


No, no man love going on. It is just his sculpts I want to get my hands on. :D

Jes Goodwin's sculpting is second to none, as far as I can tell. That post helps explain why -- he doesn't just go with the rule of cool, he actually looks at the functionality (even if it's fictional functionality) and lets that inform his sculpts. It's what every sculptor should do, and might help stave off atrocities like Chaos Dwarf hats that were the same size as their bodies.

blueraven84
02-05-2010, 17:02
Ok so now im confused:

Harry on dakkadakka to Waaagh_Gonads post about de warriors:



Waaagh_Gonads wrote:After seeing (some) of the warriors that were assembled from the new DE warrior sprue (I did not see the bits on the sprue) last weekend and having been given the all clear to talk about them by my source:


Stops lurking for a moment ....

These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.


Question remains, what are the assembled models then? Wych, Incubi? Someting totally else ;) ?

Oh and to contribute to this thread, last time i heard rumours about dark eldar, gw was still deciding whether to release them or not, take everything with salt as always.

tryanotherone
02-05-2010, 17:53
Question remains, what are the assembled models then? Wych, Incubi? Someting totally else ?


New Necrons.

BramGaunt
02-05-2010, 18:03
New Necrons.

Star Wars Tabletop.

Wait, what?

Mate, what did you intended to tell us?

Harry
02-05-2010, 18:14
Sorry.

I was going to post the same thing here too but got distracted.

These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.

There you go. :D

my_name_is_tudor
02-05-2010, 18:20
Hmm. If the original source is accurate that they are close in design to that illustration then I can't seem to think of anything in the (current) range that they could match up too. Too lightly armoured for Incubus models...

Could we see a new troops choice for Dark Eldar? Something like a heavy warrior perhaps...

iamjack42
02-05-2010, 18:26
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.


Maybe they were 3-ups? Test models? Conversions?

Blutkind
02-05-2010, 18:34
Can't wait too see the pics, finally...aren't we living in the ventury of mobile phones with cams???

That will be the most important release and i like the new style.

Uncle Mel
02-05-2010, 19:24
Sorry.
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue...


... but from the eldar sprue?

Garanaul the Black
02-05-2010, 19:55
Sorry.

I was going to post the same thing here too but got distracted.

These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.

There you go. :D


I'll take a guess and say that 'warrior' is the operative word here. Possible something entirely new?

G

Archonate
02-05-2010, 20:40
He might be insinuating that they are no longer called 'Warriors'. Kabalites perhaps? Or maybe Raiders? (Which would force a change to the vehicle name) I hope this is the case. I always found the term 'Warriors' very generic and uncreative. Especially since Necrons also have 'Warriors'.

Ba'al Starslayer
02-05-2010, 20:53
Armoured Wyches? A new sect that fights.... Guinea Pigs? I dunno. As said earlier the description matches (Or seems to) the illustration...

@Archonate; There is already a Raider Squad. There are Raiders and Warriors. Raiders can be mounted on a Raider whereas the Warriors cannot, as they are not Raiders. You following that? :p

Vhalyar
02-05-2010, 20:53
He might be insinuating that they are no longer called 'Warriors'. Kabalites perhaps? Or maybe Raiders? (Which would force a change to the vehicle name) I hope this is the case. I always found the term 'Warriors' very generic and uncreative. Especially since Necrons also have 'Warriors'.

That doesn't fit with what he said, re-read:


These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.

Emphasis on the last line: he's implying that there is a warrior sprue, but that what Gonad saw is not a warrior, or at least not the final version of the warrior.

silverstu
02-05-2010, 20:53
He might be insinuating that they are no longer called 'Warriors'. Kabalites perhaps? Or maybe Raiders? (Which would force a change to the vehicle name) I hope this is the case. I always found the term 'Warriors' very generic and uncreative. Especially since Necrons also have 'Warriors'.

Nope- he is saying there is a new dark eldar warrior sprue- but these models didn't come from it.
Either test/prototype sculpts[possible if they relate to the illustration], maybe a different DE option.. or maybe we need more pie on offer...:D

Ba'al Starslayer
02-05-2010, 20:58
Could be Scourges...?

Harry
02-05-2010, 21:10
Nope- he is saying there is a new dark eldar warrior sprue- but these models didn't come from it.
Either test/prototype sculpts[possible if they relate to the illustration]
This is what I was saying.

Ba'al Starslayer
02-05-2010, 21:19
Well all they really CAN be are;
Warriors/Raiders
Warriors in retinue (If they'd look any different)
Scourges
Armoured Wyches (Although the Rifle disagrees here)

Unless it's a new entry...
Also the Crossbow-like weapon has me thrown here...

Hoarmurel
02-05-2010, 21:25
These are not what they might have appeared to be. They were not assembled from the new DE warrior sprue.


:confused:

So the new warriors, will not look like the artwork of the rulebook (as the guy who saw the models said they were basically that)?

Well, it's possible that this guy might confused the models he saw with warriors, but they weren't warriors at all. However if he was told they were the new DE warriors by the GW people, then I don't understand it :confused:

gorgon
02-05-2010, 21:25
It wouldn't have happened like that. When a project starts the first thing they do is set down who the race is. What motivates them, the key elements of their character, beliefs, reason for being along with a synopsis of how they make war, army composition, tactics that sort of thing. Anything in fact which define the race and sets them apart from the others.

It is this that is shared with artists sculptors, writers to get the ball rolling then as they produce stuff they influence each other.

Yeah, this is IMO one of the fundamental misunderstandings some folks have about the studio's creative process. They start working on new projects at a conceptual level. Once they get their concept down, the rest of the creative work -- fluff, rules, miniatures, visuals -- flows naturally.

Fans always want to jump right into the rules-writing, etc., but getting the concept right pays enormous dividends down the road. And it's noticeable when you get it wrong.

Note that I don't have any actual insight into the studio. But I do recognize a creative process when I see one. ;) The basic process they follow -- subject matter excepted -- would be right at home in an advertising agency or department, or most other creative environments. [/creative professional hat off]

ForgottenLore
02-05-2010, 21:44
Fans always want to jump right into the rules-writing, etc.,

This is because fans are usually coming up with ideas solo and so already have their concept down.

Sadly, most people never even realize that how THEY conceptualize something may not be how someone else visualizes it, and if your going to have a group work on a project you need to reconcile those views.

silverstu
02-05-2010, 22:02
:confused:

So the new warriors, will not look like the artwork of the rulebook (as the guy who saw the models said they were basically that)?



They will probably look better ;)

[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]

Archonate
02-05-2010, 22:19
@Archonate; There is already a Raider Squad. There are Raiders and Warriors. Raiders can be mounted on a Raider whereas the Warriors cannot, as they are not Raiders. You following that? :p
Ah no... The troops in a Raider Squad are called Warriors. Raider is the name of the vehicle, not the troops that ride in it. It's called a Raider Squad because the Warriors are embarked on a Raider.
As I said, If they were to change the Warriors, to Raiders, they would have to change the vehicle name to something like Skiff... But apparently they have not changed any designations.

As for the described minis not being Warriors... This little game is getting annoying. Have DE fans not been toyed with enough or something?

Justicar Valius
02-05-2010, 22:41
I just hope they get toyed with a bit more so my GK get a new shiny codex to get my hands on before the inhabitants of commorragh. Sorry guys but I am a selfish kind of person.

TrojanWolf
02-05-2010, 22:45
[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]
This I can accept as the most logical answer. It certainly makes more sense than lightly armoured Incubi or, Khaine forbid, heavily armoured Wyches.


I just hope they get toyed with a bit more so my GK get a new shiny codex to get my hands on before the inhabitants of commorragh. Sorry guys but I am a selfish kind of person.
Doesn't that mean you're more suited to playing DE than you are GK? ;)

Hoarmurel
02-05-2010, 22:57
They will probably look better ;)

[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]

Ah ok...

So i understand those models would be warriors indeed, but no "from the sprue" warriors :D

We should start cooking some pies ;)

Justicar Valius
02-05-2010, 23:27
Doesn't that mean you're more suited to playing DE than you are GK? ;)

I play warriors of chaos in fantasy ;) Also I'm not sadistic and I worship the ideals of the God-Emperor.

And I agree, more Pie for the Pie God!

Thornz
03-05-2010, 00:55
Hi,

Just browsing Dan Scotts website and found this DE Image ... as far as I can tell it's very new :

http://www.danscottart.com/Images/RekhulIncubiMaster.jpg

Codex art maybee ???? Worth a look anyway.

Scelerat
03-05-2010, 01:09
I doubt that is codex art: not detailed enough in colours and shadings, and wouldn't benefit from a b&w change, also.
That's very close to Drazhar (current mini, I don't know whether we're going to get a new one). Doesn't look bad, but nothing out of the realm of the completely ordinary and, certainly, not something to expect, I think.

Archonate
03-05-2010, 01:47
Hi,

Just browsing Dan Scotts website and found this DE Image ... as far as I can tell it's very new :

http://www.danscottart.com/Images/RekhulIncubiMaster.jpg

Codex art maybee ???? Worth a look anyway.
That image is not new. It is almost a decade old and comes from the old Warhammer 40k collectible card game. He's a character card. An Incubi Master named Rezhul if I remember right...

Kaldanesh
03-05-2010, 02:06
Hi,

Just browsing Dan Scotts website and found this DE Image ... as far as I can tell it's very new :

http://www.danscottart.com/Images/RekhulIncubiMaster.jpg

Codex art maybee ???? Worth a look anyway.

I believe that is artwork from the old warhammer 40k CCG by sabretooth games. pretty sure I have that in my collection somewhere

baphomael
03-05-2010, 02:07
Hi,

Just browsing Dan Scotts website and found this DE Image ... as far as I can tell it's very new :

http://www.danscottart.com/Images/RekhulIncubiMaster.jpg

Codex art maybee ???? Worth a look anyway.

Not by a mile, that artwork is from the defunct 40k CCG.

^Ninja'd

MajorWesJanson
03-05-2010, 02:17
Nevermind. Ninja'd

Harry
03-05-2010, 05:32
They will probably look better ;)

[edit: Showing prototypes/test models gives a good impression of the new range without actually revealing the final product. Creating a nice bit of buzz/chatter in advance of the new release..]
Yes they probably will. :D

[Yes]


I am beginning to think Stu knows more than he is letting on. :shifty:

silverstu
03-05-2010, 08:38
I am beginning to think Stu knows more than he is letting on. :shifty:

I wish....:p

[just good guessing ;)]

Ba'al Starslayer
03-05-2010, 09:11
So... if this model is a prototype of some sort... then surely the release date if actually further away than we thought? I would have thought that DE were past this stage :confused:

silverstu
03-05-2010, 09:24
So... if this model is a prototype of some sort... then surely the release date if actually further away than we thought? I would have thought that DE were past this stage :confused:

No- you still have prototypes at the end of the production process[as in "look how we got here.."] and Harry has stated there is a DE warrior sprue, and the first wave is completed. The fact that they are showing "tasters" round and the increase in chatter implies the release is getting closer.
I'd say it's a fairly strong bet that they will have a "ta-da!" moment at Gamesday UK..

A prototype is likely to be very close to the final design- they probably evolved and refined the design forward from it [most likely details and some of the shapes like helmets/armour pieces..]. Basically you could get a fair impression of the range from a prototype without getting to see the final product[which is still safe from prying eyes/cameras keeping the surprise].

Ba'al Starslayer
03-05-2010, 09:48
Ahhh, I get you now ;) So maybe this model is just an older incarnation?

Lathrael
03-05-2010, 10:20
Yes they probably will. :D

[Yes]


I am beginning to think Stu knows more than he is letting on. :shifty:

"As for the described minis not being Warriors... This little game is getting annoying. Have DE fans not been toyed with enough or something?"

Well, if anyone knows anything at this moment, it's not the best time to give few bits and hide the rest.

I happen to think that release of DE is result of GW's fear of rioting (former) DE players.

blueraven84
03-05-2010, 12:33
I guess they don't want to show anything official dark eldar related because it might affect the new 8th edition warhammer fantasy sales?

I believe that once they put out 8th edition, we might start seeing dark eldar previews in month or two. Uk gamesday in September most likely (I hope).

PhergAthor
03-05-2010, 13:11
So to spell it out: Gonad saw some concept models of a Dark Eldar warrior that resemble the concept art from the rulebook.

The first wave of models is done and the DE warriors on the sprue will resemble the concept warriors that resemble the concept art. Fine be me ;-)

From another thread we know the raider/ravager is done and thus will be in the first wave. The model will have the "sail" from the concept art.

Yet another thread speaks of the codex being at the printers. No details beyond the fact it is at the printers is known. There is however chatter of harlequins being included in a questionable article from BOLS.

That's pretty much the rumour round-up at hand.

Justicar Valius
03-05-2010, 13:30
Pah, I don't believe anything that comes out from BoLS. That's why I have warseer and the BnC.

beanlad
03-05-2010, 14:20
yea DE are to be released in Aug/Oct maybe even games day. and GK aint being up dated yet not till necrons have as they would be the oldest 40k army when DE are updated

Emeraldw
03-05-2010, 14:33
yea DE are to be released in Aug/Oct maybe even games day. and GK aint being up dated yet not till necrons have as they would be the oldest 40k army when DE are updated

Wait, what? That goes against the rumors we have gotten this far and unless things have changed, we are looking at Grey Knights before Necrons and unless things have changed based on a couple rumors we have gotten. Grey Knights are before even Dark Eldar.

Azzy
03-05-2010, 14:50
Wait, what? That goes against the rumors we have gotten this far and unless things have changed, we are looking at Grey Knights before Necrons and unless things have changed based on a couple rumors we have gotten. Grey Knights are before even Dark Eldar.

Right. Until we have Harry, DPA, etc. suggest otherwise the schedule, as has been previously inferred, is GK, DE and then Necrons.

Hokiecow
03-05-2010, 15:17
Who has definitively said GK are next?

It seems like all signs point to DE are next.

Max_Killfactor
03-05-2010, 15:22
Right. Until we have Harry, DPA, etc. suggest otherwise the schedule, as has been previously inferred, is GK, DE and then Necrons.

Yup. It appears Harry is on the fence, so it's DPA's conclusions vs Gonads'.

Gonads has said more about Dark Eldar than DPA has about Grey Knights. Gonads also said that he was given the 'okay' by his source, which to me means DE are probably closer if sources are letting people talk a little.

Unless someone comes out describing the Grey Knights models, I believe Dark Eldar have better odds of coming first. Nothing is certain though, of course.

Tymell
03-05-2010, 15:29
Who has definitively said GK are next?

I was just wondering that too actually. I may well have just missed a post/thread somewhere, but I don't recall actual confirmation of Grey Knights being up next.

spaint2k
03-05-2010, 15:42
Now in this case I think they were planning to make some big changes to the background so it is possible that the background was re-written in some depth before they got going this time.


Since the background is about three lines long at the moment, this can only be a good thing.

Max_Killfactor
03-05-2010, 15:45
I was just wondering that too actually. I may well have just missed a post/thread somewhere, but I don't recall actual confirmation of Grey Knights being up next.

DPA has had several demonic visions that seem to imply that GK are next. Beyond that, I haven't heard much about them either.

Emeraldw
03-05-2010, 15:45
I was just wondering that too actually. I may well have just missed a post/thread somewhere, but I don't recall actual confirmation of Grey Knights being up next.

Technically no has said either one way or the other.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=251157&page=29

Check the last 6 or 7 posts there and you will see that it appears there are conflicting rumors about what is next.

I think Dark Eldar hype has gotten so high that rumors are getting out early for them, but that is just a guess on my part. They seem to be the most anticipated release in a long time.

DPA has hinted Grey Knights almost bluntly are next and as far as I know no one has said that Dark Eldar are next, just soon. But as I said above, nothing official or straightforward.

Hokiecow
03-05-2010, 16:56
Sounds like he's saying GK are not next


As tantalising as talking about GK's is we still have other releases coming before the blasted hunters of my kin make an appearance so lets get back on track to Spearhead shall we?

As for pictures of the rest of the spearhead releases that many people have been questioning me about, i'm sure my daemonic visions will be available for all to see within the next week or so.

Scelerat
03-05-2010, 17:02
That's because GK are not the next release: Spearhead is.

Emeraldw
03-05-2010, 17:03
Sounds like he's saying GK are not next

I usually don't want to read into anything but that sounds like he is saying to keep it on Spearhead discussion, not implying the next book. And he is right, we have Spearhead, warhammer fantasy 8th (yay!) some WoTR stuff before August and possibly GK or Dark Eldar.

Hoarmurel
03-05-2010, 17:05
Who has definitively said GK are next?

It seems like all signs point to DE are next.

I don't think so. In fact there is not enough info yet to say such thing, the people who is really reliable didn't say which one is the next release. As far as i'm concerned, i think those people are all here in Warseer.

Daemon Prince Adramalech said the following about Grey Knights:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613859&postcount=553
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613874&postcount=556
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613876&postcount=557

Edit: I just see this post:


Sounds like he's saying GK are not next

He's saying Spearhead is the following release. Even English not being my mother language i can understand it... I just don't understand why people without any problem to read and understand english language seems to don't want actually read and understand it...

Blutkind
03-05-2010, 17:15
:eek: Arrrgh...you are really messing me up!
This codex is the only reason for me, to start again with 40k (besides, I really like the actual rules, but my army is just too old)...I wish for Dark Eldar.

And a complete Inquisition Codex would be much better, than three, at last...but that is for the far future. DE players had a real long time and now we have to get something!

Scelerat
03-05-2010, 17:21
He's saying Spearhead is the following release. Even English not being my mother language i can understand it... I just don't understand why people without any problem to read and understand english language seems to don't want actually read and understand it...

You know, I was going to say exactly the same in my post. Sometimes it amazes me.

Tymell
03-05-2010, 17:30
Ta for the replies folks :) It's nice to know where rumours are coming from, however accurate they end up being.

To be honest, right now it just seems up in the air. As with Fantasy, there seems no real clarity on what races are coming up next. Some suggestions on which ones are on the way, but most scheduling seems to be guesswork.

Vineas
03-05-2010, 18:10
I've been told by a few reliable, semi-reliable sources no GK's until 2011. I've heard too that DE are between August and October.

Meriwether
03-05-2010, 18:32
:eek: Arrrgh...you are really messing me up!

I wouldn't pay too much attention to rumors at all...

Justicar Valius
03-05-2010, 18:56
Conflicting rumours always annoy me, however this is a truely awseome codex race.
The Necron guys that think they are next, man it's crazy with who is supporting who.

Basically it comes down to who you believe the most, DPA or Gonads but Harry has said it IS DE or GK next. *crosses fingers for the great daemonic one* Hope that doesn't irratate th God-Emperor too much, me supporting a Daemon, oh well. I've banished enough before.

Hoarmurel
03-05-2010, 19:19
It's a strange situation. If i'm right, reds8n has hinted in Dakka (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/292253.page)that he doesn't expect GK in August. (Or at least is what i understand)

That leaves some of the very reliable people of internet saying different things, it's quite odd, I wonder if this would be some sort of strategy of GW to keep the "surprise effect" until the very last moment. :confused:

jspyd3rx
03-05-2010, 19:46
They could just release a GK lander as a rules supplement for Spearhead. So GK could be next, just not the codex. Then DE in Fall.

Azzy
03-05-2010, 20:09
Who has definitively said GK are next?

But then... Who has definitively said are next?

The only definite statement that has been made is Seņor Gonads saying that DE would be released in August. With no disrespect to Gonads, I'm not familiar with him so his statements must take a backseat to any made by DPA, Harry, Hastings, etc. in my opinion.


It seems like all signs point to DE are next.

Not [I]all, only the ones from Don Gonads. I tend to be rather cautious when it comes to DE, and for several years the rumor has been that DE would show up in early 2011 or, if we're lucky, late 2010. This year, rumors have put DE as almost definitely this year. Only Herr Gonads have given a date or otherwise implied that they'd be the next codex release.

That said, DE could be next (DPA admits that he doesn't know whether GK or DE are next either). I, however, wouldn't put money on it as DPA's "visions" have featured mostly GK of late, and we've had other sources saying that we'd have to wait a bit longer on DE. Given all that I've read and collated, I feel the safer bet is on on GK first, DE later this year and Necrons sometime early next year.

Of course, though, time will tell. :)

Hokiecow
03-05-2010, 20:11
I don't think so. In fact there is not enough info yet to say such thing, the people who is really reliable didn't say which one is the next release. As far as i'm concerned, i think those people are all here in Warseer.

Daemon Prince Adramalech said the following about Grey Knights:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613859&postcount=553
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613874&postcount=556
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4613876&postcount=557

Edit: I just see this post:



He's saying Spearhead is the following release. Even English not being my mother language i can understand it... I just don't understand why people without any problem to read and understand english language seems to don't want actually read and understand it...

Wow, calm down! I was reading it in context to the thread. Since the thread was about Spearhead, it sounded like another release was going to happen between SH and GK.

ANYWAYS.... My point is, you've had one person rambling on about GK. I'm not sure when he became a trusted source with his vague rants... BUT OK. I'll take them at face value. Now let look at the DE side. We have confirmations of a book, and sighting of models, and supposed new rules... That's more then what we can say for GK.

Azzy
03-05-2010, 20:13
They could just release a GK lander as a rules supplement for Spearhead. So GK could be next, just not the codex. Then DE in Fall.

No. Only IG and Eldar are getting kits for the Spearhead release.

jmefr8
03-05-2010, 20:17
Well we only have 2 weeks at the most before we find out what's coming out in August based on how GW has announced things so far so I'm trying not to drive myself too crazy. I am really hoping for DE in August though so I am quite anxious to see what happens. I can't remember a time where we literally had no clue how the releases were going like we have now. GWs new policy seems to be working well for them.

Hoarmurel
03-05-2010, 20:20
Wow, calm down! Since the thread was about Spearhead, it sounded like another release was going to happen between SH and GK.

I'm calm as a millpond :D. Barrier language, you know ;)

On topic: He was referring to the Spearhead releases, you only have to re-read the quote of your last post.


I can't remember a time where we literally had no clue how the releases were going like we have now. GWs new policy seems to be working well for them.

My thoughts too. They seem to be spreading conflicting rumours deliberately :confused:

ProtoClone
03-05-2010, 20:34
Well we only have 2 weeks at the most before we find out what's coming out in August based on how GW has announced things so far so I'm trying not to drive myself too crazy. I am really hoping for DE in August though so I am quite anxious to see what happens. I can't remember a time where we literally had no clue how the releases were going like we have now. GWs new policy seems to be working well for them.

Maybe they have all three (DE, GK and Necrons) ready to go...they are just messing with us by releasing bits of info to different sources to create conflicting rumors. As to which one is/was really next, maybe they are still weighing the options to which two for this year and which one to kick off 2011.

Either way, kind of like the flood of rumors. Makes for nice reading and keeps me thinking about 40k.

Zsoulless
03-05-2010, 20:36
Its been a toss up between Daemonhunter and witchhunter product codes being pulled, The "bloodangels are only half the story" quote & the New DarkEldar Model Hype....

August just feels a little early to me.. I just kinda pictured a GD uk debut right in time for november/christmas sales....

Vhalyar
03-05-2010, 22:50
The "bloodangels are only half the story"

People are still parroting that crap? :eyebrows:
That was about the Flesh Tearers in Codex: Blood Angels.


ANYWAYS.... My point is, you've had one person rambling on about GK. I'm not sure when he became a trusted source with his vague rants... BUT OK. I'll take them at face value. Now let look at the DE side. We have confirmations of a book, and sighting of models, and supposed new rules... That's more then what we can say for GK.

DPA posted a bunch of rumors about the Blood Angels that all turned out to be true, among other things.

And it's not just him, there's Harry too. He's already said that DE and GK are next, that he still has no idea about the release order, and that PAGK will all wear Artificer Armour. So GK too have a book confirmed and we know some supposed new rules and unit (stormraven). It's not just 'one guy' and his 'ramblings'.

Here's some reading material for you on the subject :)
Harry on a bunch of different things, including a potential release in 2010 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4542565&postcount=190).
On artificer armour (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4575213&postcount=343).
On when DE are supposed to be released (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4622453&postcount=58).
On which army is supposed to come out next (http://www.heresy-online.net/forums/showpost.php?p=612684&postcount=173).

Tymell
03-05-2010, 23:38
People are still parroting that crap? :eyebrows:
That was about the Flesh Tearers in Codex: Blood Angels.

Was that confirmed as it's meaning by the man himself, or is it an assumption?

Also: Harry's quote on Heresy-online -could- just mean he doesn't know which of those two armies is next out of those two, without necessarily meaning one of them -is- going to be next.

I personally feel Dark Eldar may well be next, but the quote might not mean that per se. Pending clarification from the Pie Man himself of course ;)

Hokiecow
04-05-2010, 00:42
That leaves some of the very reliable people of internet saying different things, it's quite odd, I wonder if this would be some sort of strategy of GW to keep the "surprise effect" until the very last moment. :confused:

Probably not far from the truth. It sure seems like it with all conflicting rumors.



DPA posted a bunch of rumors about the Blood Angels that all turned out to be true, among other things.

DPA only had four comments on BA and none of them were rumours. Just saying, "I know something you don't" and "Expect it to be good".... That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.



And it's not just him, there's Harry too. He's already said that DE and GK are next, that he still has no idea about the release order, and that PAGK will all wear Artificer Armour.
Harry hasn't said that GK are next, like you referenced, he doesn't know except they are coming down the pipe.




So GK too have a book confirmed and we know some supposed new rules and unit (stormraven). It's not just 'one guy' and his 'ramblings'.



I have not heard that GK have a book that has been sent to the printers, could you reference the post?

Isn't the 'Stormraven' known because it's referenced in the BA codex as being used by GK? If that is the case (not saying it is) then it doesn't count as a rumour.

Gorbad Ironclaw
04-05-2010, 05:41
That leaves some of the very reliable people of internet saying different things, it's quite odd, I wonder if this would be some sort of strategy of GW to keep the "surprise effect" until the very last moment. :confused:

Possibly quite true, although I don't quite get it. I suppose it's to keep people checking back in the vain hope there is something of interest for them coming. Do people really react to the "surprise, we made a new army!" with "Wow, random army Y, I must buy it now before unknown army X next month takes my money too!"

Anyway, the DE rumours and confirmations have been getting slowly more concrete over time, I was talking to people last year who had seen models for it. so even if they are not the next release at least they are much closer than they have been for a very long time and that's good. Really quite looking forward to seeing what GW does with them.

Azzy
04-05-2010, 05:46
so even if they are not the next release at least they are much closer than they have been for a very long time and that's good.

This. Abso-****-lutely! The writing on the wall seems to indicate (whether next or not) they will be out this year. While I have no intention of starting a DE army, I am eagerly awaiting their release. :)

MajorWesJanson
04-05-2010, 06:33
This. Abso-****-lutely! The writing on the wall seems to indicate (whether next or not) they will be out this year. While I have no intention of starting a DE army, I am eagerly awaiting their release. :)

It's all but confirmed that Grey Knights and Dark Eldar are next, likely within this year, with Necrons likely in Jan or possibly Feb of next year. The main question is who will be first, and the difference essentially comes down to one coming in between Fantasy 8th and its starter as a late summer release, and the other coming at the end of the year as a Gamesday UK announcement/holiday season release.

Personally, I'm hoping for DEldar in August.

Daemon Prince Adramalech
04-05-2010, 09:42
DPA only had four comments on BA and none of them were rumours. Just saying, "I know something you don't" and "Expect it to be good".... That doesn't give me a warm fuzzy.


I'm pretty sure i've never used the term "I know something you don't", as for the blood angels stuff i'm pretty sure I gave you all an accurate description of Sanguinary Guard way back in January.

As for my "vague rants" i can't be specific on some things lest i have the wrath of the GW Inqusition land on my daemonic bonce. Believe me I'd love to be able to tell you all "this is coming on this date and it looks like this and heres the pictures" but I can't. As i've said many times in the past release schedules are fickle creatures and they shift and change faster than even I can keep up with sometimes. I try not to give a chronological order to the details in any of my posts for that very reason but now i'm considering keeping my daemonic trap shut on such things.

:mad:

chaosmoron
04-05-2010, 10:06
I try not to give a chronological order to the details in any of my posts for that very reason but now i'm considering keeping my daemonic trap shut on such things.

:mad:

DPA, your contribution on rumours to Warseer is greatly appreciated by the community. Let's not let an apple spoil the barrel because of not getting warm fuzzies. ;)

Lord Khabal
04-05-2010, 10:17
I guess that the guys on GW are corrently using advanced mathmatical models extrapolating the possible monetary outcome of multiple cenarios, concerning the release of GK / DE. But, as we all know, it will all be solved on a 1D6 in July. :)

shabbadoo
04-05-2010, 10:19
People are still parroting that crap? :eyebrows:
That was about the Flesh Tearers in Codex: Blood Angels.

No, it wasn't. At that time I guessed it might be Chaos Legions, but I was told(by Brimstone I think) something to the effect, "No, quite the opposite. Think shinier. ;)". At that point I knew Grey Knights were definitely on the way, and so they are.

cthorpe
04-05-2010, 10:22
Hi there DPA..

Please continue to give you visions.. If people cannot see that you were correct with descriptions of the BA, and model releases for spearhead LONG before other confirmations then thats their problem..

Your accuracy has been impressive.. so please continue.. MOST people appreciate your efforts at bringing information .. and we do appreciate the difficulties of not wanting the GW inquisition from curtailing you permanently..

Best wishes,

Carl

Sildani
04-05-2010, 11:08
Daemon Prince, please don't let a couple bad apples ruin the whole bushel for you. Your hints help keep interest in this game going!

daboarder
04-05-2010, 11:18
No, it wasn't. At that time I guessed it might be Chaos Legions, but I was told(by Brimstone I think) something to the effect, "No, quite the opposite. Think shinier. ;)". At that point I knew Grey Knights were definitely on the way, and so they are.

Actually the man himself said quite clearly that it was.

the other half was Chapter master gabriel seth and the "fleet based" chapter was the fact that Seth has fleet. Harry himself said this.

Max_Killfactor
04-05-2010, 11:46
As for my "vague rants" i can't be specific on some things lest i have the wrath of the GW Inqusition land on my daemonic bonce. Believe me I'd love to be able to tell you all "this is coming on this date and it looks like this and heres the pictures" but I can't. As i've said many times in the past release schedules are fickle creatures and they shift and change faster than even I can keep up with sometimes. I try not to give a chronological order to the details in any of my posts for that very reason but now i'm considering keeping my daemonic trap shut on such things.


I like your style of hints and I hope you continue them.

Some people are always going to complain, most of us understand why you can't spill the beans. I'd hate for someone to get in trouble or fired just so we can know what's coming out in a few months.

That being said, the rumors are pretty crazy right now. DE players have already crossed the line to insanity (long ago...), and GK/Inq players are getting close. With 2 dedicated fanbases trying to figure out if their army is next, I think there's some frustration.

Hopefully we find out soon... :shifty:

shabbadoo
04-05-2010, 11:50
Actually the man himself said quite clearly that it was.

the other half was Chapter master gabriel seth and the "fleet based" chapter was the fact that Seth has fleet. Harry himself said this.

No idea why I was thrown a bone regarding Grey Knights then, because "No. Quite the opposite" and "Think shinier" in response to "Chaos Legions perhaps?" are rather specific to Grey Knights and have nothing to do with Flesh Tearers. Then again, Harry didn't post that; somebody else did.

Meriwether
04-05-2010, 12:21
DPA --

Nobody likes you and you kind of smell funny.

(Just trying to help keep things "Fair and Balanced". People were being far too complimentary, and it doesn't matter that it's true. We have a reputation to live down to! :evilgrin:)

Quaade
04-05-2010, 13:01
I have a feeling that GW are pumping out rumours about both armies impendent release so people will keep guessing and speculating.
The GK rumours didn't surface untill after it was said that DE were next.

Brilliant viral marketing whatever turns out to be the next release.

Hoarmurel
04-05-2010, 13:05
As for my "vague rants" i can't be specific on some things lest i have the wrath of the GW Inqusition land on my daemonic bonce. Believe me I'd love to be able to tell you all "this is coming on this date and it looks like this and heres the pictures" but I can't. As i've said many times in the past release schedules are fickle creatures and they shift and change faster than even I can keep up with sometimes. I try not to give a chronological order to the details in any of my posts for that very reason but now i'm considering keeping my daemonic trap shut on such things.

Your hints and comments are really well appreciated, although some times difficult to understand, please don't let some bad comments upset you. :)

Archonate
04-05-2010, 13:54
DE players have already crossed the line to insanity (long ago...)
It's true, we have. I don't think any DE player would deny this. We stopped waiting 'patiently' years ago, and have since been waiting angrily as we watched everybody else get updated at least twice over.

But from what we're hearing, in the end we'll be grateful they took their time with this.

I don't think it will make a difference in profit which they release first. Though it would be nice if xenos came before SMs for once. Especially with the current abundance of updated Imperial armies. To me, variety is the fundamental appeal of Warhammer 40k.

Lord Khabal
04-05-2010, 14:14
Yes it will make quite a difference... From an Investment value point it would make more sense to release GK in August and DE in Christmas, since the GW investment in GK will be minimal (2-3 plastic sets? + characters) and on DE huge (most models re-done, so 5-6 plastic sets? - warriors, wyches, raider, ravager, hellions, incubi?), and since people will have more money to spend on Christmas, it will result on an higher "impulse buy" ratio than in August. Of course this is my point of view... :)

Monachus
04-05-2010, 14:57
It's true, we have. I don't think any DE player would deny this. We stopped waiting 'patiently' years ago, and have since been waiting angrily as we watched everybody else get updated at least twice over.


it is quite plausible that GW attempted to send DE fans around the bend by taunting them with new armies and codexes through the years,
on the other hand they could have just got cruddace to do the codex which would have been much quicker :D

Daemon Prince Adramalech
04-05-2010, 15:13
I'm pretty confident that once they are revealed their patience shall be more than rewarded. :)

Monachus
04-05-2010, 15:17
I'm pretty confident that once they are revealed their patience shall be more than rewarded. :)

although it's probably only a matter of days before they lose their minds completely and start barking and attacking the postman

althathir
04-05-2010, 16:31
Just a thought: if DE are released in August then their second wave could be released in October/November, in time for the holidays. That could be a good way to recoup their risky investment. GK would get the full new-army blowout for the holidays then, along with their (presumed) new plastics. And hey, new plastic Marines sell well.


Yes it will make quite a difference... From an Investment value point it would make more sense to release GK in August and DE in Christmas, since the GW investment in GK will be minimal (2-3 plastic sets? + characters) and on DE huge (most models re-done, so 5-6 plastic sets? - warriors, wyches, raider, ravager, hellions, incubi?), and since people will have more money to spend on Christmas, it will result on an higher "impulse buy" ratio than in August. Of course this is my point of view... :)

Honestly I don't think GW would lose either way, but dark eldar in august makes more sense to me, New marines always show up around christmas, and honestly DE players have waited long enough. Plus with fewer releases for grey knights they could effectively have a full release in one wave maybe with a shiny new stormraven which would let GW basically release two armies in four months, and give BA players a christmas toy.


lol... so true.

Every army has an opponent they can't really do anything with, I suppose. Chaos and Dark Eldar need souls; rules out Tyranids. Tyranids need biomass; rules out Necrons. Orks need an opponent who can fight; rules out Tau. :D

sigged

massey
04-05-2010, 16:32
I'm pretty confident that once they are revealed their patience shall be more than rewarded. :)

No, they ran out of patience years and years ago. Not a thread can be had without DE players bombarding the rest of us with "our poor army hasn't been updated!" No, good sir, it is our patience that is being rewarded. The rest of us, for not killing all the DE players. ;)

SeaSwift
04-05-2010, 17:37
Although you forgot to mention that if many of us were put in that same, dreadful situation (and I'm not talking about drinking souls to survive, but I'm sure many Dark Eldar players have fallen to just that) we would now be locked in our bedrooms, huddling over our well-painted, shockingly badly designed models whispering 'my precious', and every so often go on the internet and drool over every new (and until recently apparently false) rumour of new Dark Eldar. We would choose to look at wishlists of new Dark Eldar (humming to ourselves softly that it isn't just wishlisting, it is FACT, they're coming) and ignore all food in favour of sucking souls out of children we would lure to the window. Good thing Dark Eldar players are made of sterner stuff...

Oh wait. Hmm.

Shatterclaw
04-05-2010, 17:47
I am only speaking for my self, and not other dark eldar players..

I am quite sane, or as sane as i have ever been.. Nothing that GeeDub has done has ever drove me insane.. Mad and crazy, perhaps, a little confused and mildly annoyed? sure, vex, bother and bewildered? oh yeah, they done that, but to dislodge the hold on the thin thread that is considered to be the hall mark and water line of insanity, no, i still hang on to the tread.

Now, I don't mind if they put a another shiny new codex in front of the dark elder..

and i can tell you why.

Each book that falls before the new Dark Eldar codex, will only lead to a stronger dark Eldar codex.

Space wolves saw a modest increase in power, Blood angels even more, so put the shine power armor deamon hunters frist, then let loose the dark eldar..

and we shall see who is cleaning up the tables after words.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to talk to my little toy soliders..

*this message is ment as the joke that it is.. take it for what it is worth*





I like your style of hints and I hope you continue them.

Some people are always going to complain, most of us understand why you can't spill the beans. I'd hate for someone to get in trouble or fired just so we can know what's coming out in a few months.

That being said, the rumors are pretty crazy right now. DE players have already crossed the line to insanity (long ago...), and GK/Inq players are getting close. With 2 dedicated fanbases trying to figure out if their army is next, I think there's some frustration.

Hopefully we find out soon... :shifty:

Shatterclaw
04-05-2010, 17:48
..
you forgot licking our well painted shockingly badly designed models..


Although you forgot to mention that if many of us were put in that same, dreadful situation (and I'm not talking about drinking souls to survive, but I'm sure many Dark Eldar players have fallen to just that) we would now be locked in our bedrooms, huddling over our well-painted, shockingly badly designed models whispering 'my precious', and every so often go on the internet and drool over every new (and until recently apparently false) rumour of new Dark Eldar. We would choose to look at wishlists of new Dark Eldar (humming to ourselves softly that it isn't just wishlisting, it is FACT, they're coming) and ignore all food in favour of sucking souls out of children we would lure to the window. Good thing Dark Eldar players are made of sterner stuff...

Oh wait. Hmm.

Meriwether
04-05-2010, 18:05
I play seven armies, so the lack of a new DE codex is ok (although a new one would be great). I have a couple thousand points worth of stuff that still needs assembly (mostly daemons and guard at this point), and ten or twenty thousand that still needs paint...

...So August or December, I can wait. I've got stuff to keep me busy!

megatrons2nd
04-05-2010, 18:06
Here's a thought, maybe they will release both Dark Eldar and Grey Nights at the same time. Someone mentioned the possibility of two codecies at, or near the same time.

Toloran
04-05-2010, 18:57
Here's a thought, maybe they will release both Dark Eldar and Grey Nights at the same time. Someone mentioned the possibility of two codecies at, or near the same time.

Possible, but unlikely I'd say. DE and Grey Knights have enough popularity problems as is. It would be a bad idea for them to have the hype of the two armies competing against eachother.

Chucklemoney
04-05-2010, 19:02
Possible, but unlikely I'd say. DE and Grey Knights have enough popularity problems as is. It would be a bad idea for them to have the hype of the two armies competing against eachother.

I agree but this brings up a question - sorry for going OT here.

Does anyone know what percentage of sales generally come from established players as opposed to new players because the new army release looks cool/is cheesy etc?

Have GW ever released two armies at the same time?


Back on topic (slightly): My money is on GK first but I am still happy to wait for my DE. Our time will come.

megatrons2nd
04-05-2010, 19:08
Have GW ever released two armies at the same time?


Not to my knowledge.

Meriwether
04-05-2010, 19:09
Does anyone know what percentage of sales generally come from established players as opposed to new players because the new army release looks cool/is cheesy etc?

In order to know that figure, stores -- that would be GW stores, non-affiliated LGSes, and internet stores -- would have to track "what kind" of customer buys what products.

As I am certain that no significant percentage of any of the above even attempt to do this, I can confidently answer your question:

No.

Lord Khabal
04-05-2010, 19:11
GW will never do that. At least not for the same game system.
DE, worst case scenario, will be here by christmas, according to rumours. wait until then! :)

Tymell
04-05-2010, 19:24
Have GW ever released two armies at the same time?

Ignoring Daemons coming out for 40K and Fantasy simultaneously, not to my knowledge.

Honestly, I'm just going to wait and see. I'm happy enough knowing the Dark Eldar are on their way, that'll do me for now.

SeaSwift
04-05-2010, 19:30
...And ignoring Angels of Death (which was kind of two armies in one codex, so it counts).

I'm glad to see my friends aren't the only ones I have found purring over old Dark Eldar, it is great to know that even Golem-alikes have a community online :p

andyg2006
04-05-2010, 19:34
Whatever we get...whenever it comes out...thankfully Jes is doing the models, having pretty much taken them off whoever was doing them first time round because he wanted them to be done properly (allegedly?).
Also, I feel that recent 'dexes (like Daemons, Guard, Nids, BA's, Space Wolves) have put the 'character' into the armies (even if there are problems with rules or fluff/history).
I'd be happy just to see how the army comes out: I like the current codex and (unlike some recent codexes), I'd use every one of the DE models/units in my armies.
Stuff it if people don't think it's "-x% mathhammer competitive" or whatever...it's 100% characterful.

SeaSwift
04-05-2010, 19:54
Well said, it makes me feel a lot more optimistic about Warhammer when people say stuff like that. Character is far more important than cheese.

andyg2006
04-05-2010, 20:11
IMHO, the recent Fantasy army books (might not have been exactly 'the most recent ones' though) have had plenty of character put into them as well (Wood + High + Dark Elves, Lizards, Daemons, WoC, Skaven, Ogres, Vampires) compared to the previous versions -if any- so it's nice to seee this carrying over into 40k as well + hope it continues for DE's (+ their slave-races -lol) too.

Max_Killfactor
04-05-2010, 20:41
Character is far more important than cheese.

I agree.

This time we'll have actual background to the Dark Eldar. This time Jes is doing the models.

We'll age much better.

electricblooz
04-05-2010, 20:46
In order to know that figure, stores -- that would be GW stores, non-affiliated LGSes, and internet stores -- would have to track "what kind" of customer buys what products.

As I am certain that no significant percentage of any of the above even attempt to do this, I can confidently answer your question:

No.

While they might not know, GW is clearly banking its US strategy on new customer, one-time impulse buys. While I have never heard (prior to the very recent thread) a number for how many new stores GWUS was planning to open, the message was always the same; minimalist locations in high foot-traffic areas. With that kind of location siting the implied strategy is "walk-in/walk-out" buyers.

Blutkind
04-05-2010, 20:54
At some time I loved the GW stores, for some chatting around, but in Germany, they are like on a market...always talking about the fantastic new stuff and are really aggressive with that! And talking to you, if you are 10 years old and just want to start the game (so you have to buy 10 armies, 20 books and everything else there)...disgusting :mad:...so this American concept would be ok here!

NiftyVT
04-05-2010, 21:27
I need to sell off some stuff to make room and money for this release!!!! =) hmmm it might be so long to my fantasy orcs =(

Meriwether
04-05-2010, 22:35
While they might not know, GW is clearly banking its US strategy on new customer, one-time impulse buys.

I've never heard of a retail company that doesn't bank on repeat business as their primary source of income (outside of Dilbert), but maybe GW is the one exception to that rule. I really, really, REALLY doubt it. But maybe.

aka_mythos
05-05-2010, 01:27
Games Workshops strategy currently is that their retail outlets focus on bringing new customers to the hobby. Part of their strategy is to rely on non-GW stores to cater to customers beyond that rookie level.

Its not a unique strategy. GW recognizes the inflexible demand players have made of their hobby. Many players would rather sacrifice a good meal for a model than their models for a good meal. When something is more appealing than a necessity the demand is inflexible. When demand is inflexible a merchant is in a position where it gains nothing by giving additional attention to its established customer base. If you are already spending as much time or money you're willing to what benefit is it to GW to spend time and money to get the equal amount out of you? It is much like a drug dealer, he'll give you the first one free to get you hooked, but once you are he'll never cut you a break since you're already bringing him all your money.

Once a person accepts that the GW believes its average customer has such an inflexible demand, GW's actions make sense as a fundamental course of action that follows established micro-economic theory. So it isn't that they don't rely on repeat business it just once they know you're hooked they can take you for granted. It is the biggest danger of fandom.

Meriwether
05-05-2010, 01:30
Evidence, please.

AlphaLegionMarine
05-05-2010, 02:09
any player who only plays GW miniatures games and looks down at all the other miniature games pretty much proves aka_mythos's theory. GW knows a player is hooked, they don't need to change you because a large portion of the GW players all refuse to spend their gaming dollar else where.

I used to see it all the time when I worked at the gaming shop. Players would come in and complain about what GW was doing to their armies and how they are so hurt by GW, yet they still drop $300 on their army. I've tried to point them to other games, but they have no interest. So why does GW have to cater to their existing player base? They want more people just like that. People who would rather drop $300 on GW stuff that they complain about, rather than buying a Warmachine army, Infinity box, and a Malifaux box for a little less than the same price.

And before you think I am anti-GW, I am a gaming polygamist. I have 8k Dark Elves and 2k Eldar. I also play Warmachine,Infinity,Malifaux,Blood Bowl, Mordheim, Pulp City, Helldorado, Uncharted Seas and Anima Tactics. I'd also have a Chaos army too if I thought that I could build an Alpha Legion force in such a way that would make sense to me(I see them more as hit and run guerillas than mutated chaos worshippers)

Here is a fact where I live: I have a harder time getting a GW game in than any other game I listed.

Meriwether
05-05-2010, 02:26
any player who only plays GW miniatures games and looks down at all the other miniature games pretty much proves aka_mythos's theory.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't even come close.

Some random anecdotal story about one particular gamer does not even vaguely override the market-research-based philosophy that drives every successful producer and retail establishment in the world.


GW knows a player is hooked, they don't need to change you because a large portion of the GW players all refuse to spend their gaming dollar else where.

Evidence, please.

This is one of those things that "everyone knows" that has the disadvantage of not being true. Without ever having seen their business plan, I can assure you that while GW wants to acquire as much new business as they can, their business plan depends on repeat customers -- that is, "veteran players" -- because if their plan was based on anything else they wouldn't have a single stockholder.


I used to see it all the time when I worked at the gaming shop. Players would come in and complain about what GW was doing to their armies and how they are so hurt by GW, yet they still drop $300 on their army. I've tried to point them to other games, but they have no interest. So why does GW have to cater to their existing player base? They want more people just like that.

This seems to contradict what you just said. GW is clearly not only focused on the newbies if their business plan has been so successful that their existing customer base won't even consider the alternatives...


I have 8k Dark Elves and 2k Eldar.

Lightweight. :p

AlphaLegionMarine
05-05-2010, 02:32
This seems to contradict what you just said. GW is clearly not only focused on the newbies if their business plan has been so successful that their existing customer base won't even consider the alternatives...


My point on this was the following: They'd drop a ton of cash on miniatures while seemingly being very unhappy doing so. I think happy customers is what a business would want.

ForgottenLore
05-05-2010, 02:34
You seem to be missing their point Meriwether. Both those guys were arguing that GW depends on repeat business. They were just putting forth the argument that GW has realized that they don't have to expend lots of resources to actually keep that repeat business.

I think it is more that their efforts to keep repeat customers is not as overt and obvious as some think it should be, but I haven't really put a lot of thought into it.

Meriwether
05-05-2010, 02:34
Yes, I understand your point, ALM. I just cannot believe that it can possibly be true.

I only have nine year's experience working retail, but that's enough to come to the conclusion that you must -- MUST -- have it wrong.

FL: No, I get it. I just think that they either are not giving GW nearly enough credit, or are giving them far, far too much.

AlphaLegionMarine
05-05-2010, 02:38
Well, I barely have a year of experience in retail under my belt, so I defer to your retail expertise. I am actually a Software Engineer, I just moonlighted some while IBM laid me off last year, and worked two months at the only gaming shop in the entire state of Vermont. I've recently been re-employed by the State, so I did not need the job for very long.

My retail experience is back from when I was 18 besides my stint at the gaming shop. While I was there, I heard all the stories from the GW playerbase in the area, and watched them complain then buy more GW product.

ForgottenLore
05-05-2010, 02:49
I have about 20 years experience in the service industry, which has a lot of similarities to retail, and I can say that repeat business pays your bills, but you spend most of your advertising time and effort trying to attract new customers.

A well run store will try to be friendly and courteous to repeat customers, and SHOULD bend over backwards to make things right if there is a problem, but you advertise, you smooze, you sweet talk, you do anything and everything you can to attract new business, not to make the customers you have like you more than they do.

Repeat business comes from quality product
New business comes from advertising

What any of this has to do with Dark Eldar model rumors I have no idea, unless it ties in with quality product somehow.

Meriwether
05-05-2010, 02:49
Well, I'm actually a teacher (Physics and American Sign Language), but I did my time in the Real World (TM)...

With customers, if they weren't basically happy, they wouldn't be buying. My friend Chris isn't happy unless he's bitching about something, so customer affect isn't always a good indication of customer satisfaction.

GW has an advantage in that they are, for many places, the only game in town. But that isn't enough of an advantage to explain their 20+ years of success. Experience tells me that people are more inclined to bitch than to express satisfaction... The satisfied ones buy stuff and leave.

So I can see where you would get the impression that GW neither cares nor caters to their established player base. Lots of people seem to have that impression. What they don't have is any data to back it up.

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't have any real data to back up the idea that they *do* cater to their established player base, either. But from where I'm sitting, with the reality of how supply and demand economics works, the burden of proof would be on those claiming that GW is somehow different from every other successful company.

Edit: Good post, ForgottenLore. I somewhat agree. :D (Advertisement is targeted at both new and repeat customers, IME.)

Arbiter7
05-05-2010, 06:26
Your kidding ... thats what were best at. :D

I said it on the other thread ... I shall say it here.

The first Wave of models are done.

They are coming.

Did anyone else hear Pippin's wallet falling down a well with a loud, crashing noise? Or was it just me?

Sargarius
05-05-2010, 16:02
I would suggest starting a new topic on this as its way off topic, otherwise they may close the thread.

On topic it seems in many ways people are basing everything off the picture in 5th which, while I do like it, is only a basic warrior. Even the necron threads have rumours of new models and what will have a plastic and metal release and DE don't seem to have any of that despite being "first". I know some people have said that it will be a full range redo, which would be nice, hopefully a nice plastic talos kit.

loveless
05-05-2010, 16:08
It could simply be that things are much more "hush-hush" in regards to the Dark Eldar release.

Arguably, the re-release of Dark Eldar would outshine the release of Necrons - a complete redo as opposed to a partial redo. Dark Eldar would be a card kept well up GW's sleeve, by my reckoning.

Sargarius
05-05-2010, 16:12
Both will be pretty big though, DE for being the "FINALLY!!!" release that people have wanted for 12 years. A lot of people think Necron are currently broken in modern 40k so a lot of people are probably curious as to what changes they will get in regards to wargear, special rules, and unit count.

Justicar Valius
05-05-2010, 16:16
Necrons? It's meant to be GK before them.... :cries:

massey
05-05-2010, 16:32
Eh. All 3 armies need significant updates. All will come in time. Just remember that, now that they're in line, every release is one step closer to your beloved army (whichever army that may be).

chaosmoron
05-05-2010, 17:06
Honestly the Necron model range is pretty good and doesn't really need much of an update. Some new units and plastics would be nice, but what they are really in need of is just a codex. Basic warriors, pariahs, immortals and all look great.

loveless
05-05-2010, 18:37
Basic warriors, pariahs, immortals and all look great.

Ahh, that gave me a chuckle. Out of the armies most in need of an update, the Necrons are the ones that need the fewest physical updates...but they still need a ton.

Dark Eldar will be a greater resource investment, certainly - tends to happen when you scrap an entire line to replace it with an improved version.

ProtoClone
05-05-2010, 22:27
This thought was inspired by LunaHound on Dakkadakka.

What if GK are the next MEQ but not the next codex? Maybe DE are the next codex?

Vhalyar
05-05-2010, 23:05
This thought was inspired by LunaHound on Dakkadakka.

What if GK are the next MEQ but not the next codex? Maybe DE are the next codex?

Astute observation.

Polaria
10-05-2010, 10:12
Out of the armies most in need of an update, the Necrons are the ones that need the fewest physical updates...but they still need a ton.

Dark Eldar will be a greater resource investment, certainly - tends to happen when you scrap an entire line to replace it with an improved version.

Then again there is a greater chance of sells, too. I mean sure, you can bring out endless spree different-colored-space-marines time after time, but will they sell?

Models don't get "used up" in months or even years. If someone (hell, almost everyone) has army full of space marines will he buy more just because there is another codex? Doubt it.

Lets take the Blood Angels codex. Sure, die-hard Blood Angel players are happy. Some old codex SM players will go BA now. What will they buy? Baals (if they go mechanized) and maybe Death Company or Sanguine Guard. And some paints. They already have plenty of rhinos, land raiders, tactical squads and even assault squads. With luck they even have them painted red.

Same goes for Grey Knights. They are marines and most of players already have more than enough for one army. Now, if you redo the whole Dark Eldar line the DE players willl most certainly buy the new, cooler looking miniatures even if they have old ones. And anyone who wants DE as their new army will buy everything since they can't convert or repaint DE from space marines. Same goes pretty much for necrons. Old players will most surely buy new plastic kits and new necron players will buy everything.

aka_mythos
10-05-2010, 12:46
When it comes to necrons, I think only one or two of their current models will get revisited. Any updated codex will likely just bring a bunch of new units into the codex. The limited unit choices is a bigger problem than any of the current models.

Lord Khabal
10-05-2010, 12:55
Indeed. Spiders, pariahs and flayed ones aside I really like the corrent models. The Dark Eldar however has an horrible model line (I only like the raider/ravager!!!)

gorgon
10-05-2010, 13:29
Ahh, that gave me a chuckle. Out of the armies most in need of an update, the Necrons are the ones that need the fewest physical updates...but they still need a ton.

LOL. I imagine Pariahs walking around with stiff bent arms talking in a loud metallic voice, just like the '50s-era movie robots they resemble. The sculpt quality isn't bad, but the concept is terrible. It doesn't fit the rest of the line at all.

Tomb Spyders are similarly awful. There's HUGE room for improvement there. Some of the Necron models aren't much better than those in the DE line.

crandall87
10-05-2010, 14:38
Indeed. Spiders, pariahs and flayed ones aside I really like the corrent models. The Dark Eldar however has an horrible model line (I only like the raider/ravager!!!)

What about the incubi? I think they are the nicest looking DE models.

Lord Khabal
10-05-2010, 14:46
I agree with you! The incubi are the best of the horrible! :)

Polaria
10-05-2010, 18:11
Call me crazy but I kinda like the pariah models. They don't look anything like Necrons (warriors, immortals and such) but they aren't *supposed* to look like Necrons, because they are actually cyborg humans in necrodermis powerarmor... The metal & white color scheme used in codex and GW webpages is bad for them, though. They can really use some dark, menacing colors.

As for the Tomb Spyders... They really should use a remake. As they are now they look more like Tomb Fleas. Not cool at all. Flayed Ones are okay, Warriors with long claws and bits of flayed skin... isn't that exactly like they should look?

Monachus
10-05-2010, 20:11
Call me crazy but I kinda like the pariah models

I do except for the gemstone (or whatever) on their forehead, filed them all down for mine

Voss
10-05-2010, 21:42
Call me crazy but I kinda like the pariah models. They don't look anything like Necrons (warriors, immortals and such) but they aren't *supposed* to look like Necrons, because they are actually cyborg humans in necrodermis powerarmor... The metal & white color scheme used in codex and GW webpages is bad for them, though. They can really use some dark, menacing colors.


The look of the models is fine. The price tag (in real money, not points) and performance on the other hand... They just need to do them up in a plastic box and rewrite 'em.

Same with several other models in the Necron range- the metal versions just have ridiculous price tags attached and poor rules.

ago syb
10-05-2010, 22:30
I must be the only one who likes the current DE range, haha. I've been working on trying to convert them to better fit the aesthetic in their current book, which I think is awesome. I'm sure whatever look the new models try to subscribe to I'll like, but I'll still try to convert some "backward" to get the feel that I get from the artwork of the third ed book, which I think only a few of their models reflect. GBarrelhouse has done some ridiculous work with his snake cult Deldar. A little creativity and talent and really any model can shine. :D

Erazmus_M_Wattle
10-05-2010, 22:58
Then again there is a greater chance of sells, too. I mean sure, you can bring out endless spree different-colored-space-marines time after time, but will they sell?

Models don't get "used up" in months or even years. If someone (hell, almost everyone) has army full of space marines will he buy more just because there is another codex? Doubt it.

Lets take the Blood Angels codex. Sure, die-hard Blood Angel players are happy. Some old codex SM players will go BA now. What will they buy? Baals (if they go mechanized) and maybe Death Company or Sanguine Guard. And some paints. They already have plenty of rhinos, land raiders, tactical squads and even assault squads. With luck they even have them painted red.

Same goes for Grey Knights. They are marines and most of players already have more than enough for one army. Now, if you redo the whole Dark Eldar line the DE players willl most certainly buy the new, cooler looking miniatures even if they have old ones. And anyone who wants DE as their new army will buy everything since they can't convert or repaint DE from space marines. Same goes pretty much for necrons. Old players will most surely buy new plastic kits and new necron players will buy everything.

The simple answer to your question is yes. They will sell like hot cakes. Some people, a select few, will just reuse their existing marines using a different list. But many people will be swayed by new figures. Games Workshop have there market research pretty much pinned down on this. Marines always sell and that's why they keep releasing more.

Dark Eldar though will sell like hot cakes too. They might not hold up high sales in the long run but they will sell well for the first months maybe even years and GW will have worked out a sales model for them that takes this into account. I'm not sure about the rumours of which army comes out first to be honest. There is too much conflicting information. It's all going to be good no matter what. I will save up for both of 'em.

Lord Khabal
11-05-2010, 07:37
Most people that have seen the new DE say they are awesome. Judging from the latest GW kits, they might be right, but I will wait and see. On the meanwhile maybe I'll go nids.

speedygogo
11-05-2010, 07:43
Then again there is a greater chance of sells, too. I mean sure, you can bring out endless spree different-colored-space-marines time after time, but will they sell?

Models don't get "used up" in months or even years. If someone (hell, almost everyone) has army full of space marines will he buy more just because there is another codex? Doubt it.

Lets take the Blood Angels codex. Sure, die-hard Blood Angel players are happy. Some old codex SM players will go BA now. What will they buy? Baals (if they go mechanized) and maybe Death Company or Sanguine Guard. And some paints. They already have plenty of rhinos, land raiders, tactical squads and even assault squads. With luck they even have them painted red.

Same goes for Grey Knights. They are marines and most of players already have more than enough for one army. Now, if you redo the whole Dark Eldar line the DE players willl most certainly buy the new, cooler looking miniatures even if they have old ones. And anyone who wants DE as their new army will buy everything since they can't convert or repaint DE from space marines. Same goes pretty much for necrons. Old players will most surely buy new plastic kits and new necron players will buy everything.

You make an excellent point. I have a huge flesh tearer army. The only things I need and would like to buy are the sanguinary guard and a stormraven, when it is availible. It is a bad marketing idea to release so few miniature for one of the most popular armies in 40k.

speedygogo
11-05-2010, 07:48
Most people that have seen the new DE say they are awesome. Judging from the latest GW kits, they might be right, but I will wait and see. On the meanwhile maybe I'll go nids.

I've noticed that rumors always abound about how great models look before any pics are available. GW has thrown up some stinkers recently in the fantasy range and it would not surprise me if 40k had an ugly and overpriced release soon. Let's just hope the Dark Eldar models are not as horrible as the beastmen were.

Lord Khabal
11-05-2010, 08:09
The beastmen models actually made me want to go play 40k and I was a fantasy veteran! lol!
I believe that the general aesthetics of the recent Dark Elves will be carried over and "40kised" for the Dark Eldar. Or at least, I hope...

Prokrustes
11-05-2010, 08:52
I've noticed that rumors always abound about how great models look before any pics are available. GW has thrown up some stinkers recently in the fantasy range and it would not surprise me if 40k had an ugly and overpriced release soon. Let's just hope the Dark Eldar models are not as horrible as the beastmen were.

Cyberpumbagor? ;) or really grotesque looking Grotesques :D

Sorry.. I couldnt resist...

Do we have any info if they remain Hellraiser like in their aesthetics? (this info could spare me so much waiting time)

anselminus
11-05-2010, 09:16
Cyberpumbagor? ;) or really grotesque looking Grotesques :D

Sorry.. I couldnt resist...

Do we have any info if they remain Hellraiser like in their aesthetics? (this info could spare me so much waiting time)

like that
i'm sorry i couldn't resiste too

Bloodknight
11-05-2010, 09:18
Do we have any info if they remain Hellraiser like in their aesthetics?

I think that would still only fit for the Haemonculi coven. Personally, I hope they keep that look.

Lord Khabal
11-05-2010, 09:33
Behold the new warpbeast!!! :) lol

Prokrustes
11-05-2010, 10:07
@Anselminus: This picture is pure win!! Now they only have to charge 15 ermh..., price increase, 17 pounds for this masterpiece and have a minimum unit of 3 ;)

@Bloodknight: Well...I guess it would fit all around, looking at my (old/current) DE codex. The whole codex looks a bit as if a Dark Elves player watched Hellraiser before going to a S/M party and then wrote the codex the next day ;) , which I personally find a good thing. Id just be terribly disappointed if we get "Even Darker Elves in Space". Also the human skin masks and all the hooks on the old models and the "Decapitator" and mandrakes scream hellraiser to me. Matter of personal preferences :)

I wonder whats up with GW and pony tails (CSM have them, DE have them,Eldar have them and Im sure even more minis have them)? ("In the grim darkness of the future there is only one haircut!")

Lord Khabal
11-05-2010, 10:13
Well there is still no SM chapter with pony tails!! SWolves are all about Beards and long wild hair, blood angels blonde and short hair (usually), so whats up GW?! Bring on codex: Pony Tails!

Bun Bun
11-05-2010, 11:22
@Anselminus: The Cyberpumba...............I love it. :p

Cheers

BB :cool:

Benjambles
11-05-2010, 11:23
Well there is still no SM chapter with pony tails!! SWolves are all about Beards and long wild hair, blood angels blonde and short hair (usually), so whats up GW?! Bring on codex: Pony Tails!


White Scars =]

On topic:

I really do hope they announce the August release today and that it IS DE even though Jervis pretty much told me not to get my hopes up.... I spent the weekend GS'ing my warriors and wytch conversions and I'd love for them to be rendered usless =p

Lord Khabal
11-05-2010, 11:33
Today there will be an announcement? By whom?

Max_Killfactor
11-05-2010, 11:49
White Scars =]

I really do hope they announce the August release today and that it IS DE even though Jervis pretty much told me not to get my hopes up....

I think it will be next week, but I'd love to be wrong.

Usually GW has the 'Incoming' article on the third Sunday/Monday of the month, so probably the 16th or 17th.

drmarco
11-05-2010, 12:10
Here's a thought, maybe they will release both Dark Eldar and Grey Nights at the same time. Someone mentioned the possibility of two codecies at, or near the same time.

I was under the impression that August (the supposed release date for one of the armies *coughgreyknightscough*) and September (the month of Golden Demon/Games day, and the ideal launch date/reveal for, say, a completely redone range) ARE quite near the same time?

;)

Marco

Benjambles
11-05-2010, 12:16
Today there will be an announcement? By whom?

I was refering to the GW Newsletter but it seems that I got my dates wrong.

Bloodknight
11-05-2010, 13:06
Also the human skin masks and all the hooks on the old models and the "Decapitator" and mandrakes scream hellraiser to me

Of course, how could I forget?

That said, Urien Rakarth basically IS Pinhead visually. :)

Tymell
11-05-2010, 13:07
Given GW's current policy on future release info, I'd be very surprised if they announce August at this stage. To be honest, I'd be surprised if they announced it anytime before the later half of July ;)

Monachus
11-05-2010, 13:43
Given GW's current policy on future release info, I'd be very surprised if they announce August at this stage. To be honest, I'd be surprised if they announced it anytime before the later half of July ;)

the fact that we've seen almost nothing of the new fantasy rulebook and packs that will be released with it on the official site yet would indicate that hopes of word on an august release this week are about as likely as saddam's WMD's turning up down the back of his sofa

Tymell
11-05-2010, 14:28
Hehe, indeed. I should also mention, because re-reading my post it's not very clear, I meant I'd be very surprised if they announce what (if anything) is due in August before the later part of July, not referring to Dark Eldar specifically.

Hoarmurel
11-05-2010, 17:01
Given GW's current policy on future release info, I'd be very surprised if they announce August at this stage. To be honest, I'd be surprised if they announced it anytime before the later half of July ;)

I would say if there is anything in august, they would announce it in June, after the Spearhead thing :)

Leggy
11-05-2010, 18:52
They tend to announce stuff well in advance with their "Incoming!" newsletter (my inbox is full of examples), so i'm almost certain we'll be getting some kind of announcement on monday. What that will be, i have no clue, but there'll be one.

Max_Killfactor
11-05-2010, 19:15
They tend to announce stuff well in advance with their "Incoming!" newsletter (my inbox is full of examples), so i'm almost certain we'll be getting some kind of announcement on monday. What that will be, i have no clue, but there'll be one.

Yeah this is what I think as well.

It could be that August is not a 40k month at all, could be just some more Fantasy stuff.

anselminus
12-05-2010, 07:43
The politics of current GW is to warn at the last moment has my opinion in view of the new version months to come are going to smell warhammer battle;).

gorgon
12-05-2010, 13:39
I've noticed that rumors always abound about how great models look before any pics are available. GW has thrown up some stinkers recently in the fantasy range and it would not surprise me if 40k had an ugly and overpriced release soon. Let's just hope the Dark Eldar models are not as horrible as the beastmen were.

To be fair, we had advance warnings about the stinkers in the Beastmen release. Hence the Pumbagor drawing.

Jes is on the job. That's all I need to know.

Vineas
12-05-2010, 19:54
Jes had a hand in the design of the support platform yet most people don't like it. I think it looks better than the current platform, is all plastic and is also cheaper by $5.5.

I like all the new Eldar stuff so I'm fairly certain I'll like every DE model Jes sculpted (which from rumors is every single one of them).

TrojanWolf
14-05-2010, 11:55
Jes had a hand in the design of the support platform yet most people don't like it. I think it looks better than the current platform, is all plastic and is also cheaper by $5.5.
Wait, people don't like that model? I want one, and I don't even play Craftworlders! Individual tastes, I suppose.

Sarevok
23-05-2010, 16:27
Wonder if we'll see the first ever plastic female models with this range? (yeah I know about the Daemonettes)
Plastic Wyches?

Tymell
23-05-2010, 16:38
I'd be very surprised if we don't see plastic wytches; next to warriors (getting redone I mean), they're the most obvious candidates.

Sarevok
23-05-2010, 17:53
Wonder if we'll see the first ever plastic female models with this range? (yeah I know about the Daemonettes)
Plastic Wyches?

Of course there are plastic "boob torsos" and such for Elves and Eldar, but you know what I mean....

Blutkind
24-05-2010, 09:36
Hey there...what's about this rumours here:

http://bloodofkittens.com/?p=3481

I know, isn't about minis, but I don't find a Thread here, where the rumours are discussed, so I post it here.

Toloran
24-05-2010, 13:32
Hey there...what's about this rumours here:

http://bloodofkittens.com/?p=3481

I know, isn't about minis, but I don't find a Thread here, where the rumours are discussed, so I post it here.

Well, there's no source (which isn't surprising, in either event) so you just have to take the word of the blogger (such that it is). As for the rumors themselves:
- The three new skimmers seem reasonable and fit the fluff so not much can be said.
- Mandrakes: *shrug* Could happen but they feel more like an infiltration unit then a scouting unit.

As for the rest, it's just confirming previous rumors.

Over all, I'd have to guess that this was just pulled out of someones rear-end. I mostly say that because of the wishy-washy comment about the sources reliability and the fact that it's mostly refried rumors.

loveless
24-05-2010, 13:36
Did anyone post this from the Daemon thread yet?



i'll even go first:

my source told me that towards the final concept stage of the new Dark Eldar Mandrakes would be quite different from the current editions (no surprises there). he told me that they would have naked torsos but clothed lower halves, which sounded a bit like Ali Baba to me. they would be covered in tattoos to bind some of the dark magic which infused them and presumably helped with their shadow skin (he said that they were touched by the forces of Chaos, which surprised me a little considering their current background). but the most key thing was that they would have set weapons. in one hand they all carried a knife/dagger that they held incredibly lightly, as though they were a paintbrush and the other hand they held a orb of chaotic energy/were wreathed in dark flames. he also mentioned that the concept art was highly dynamic, but whether that translates to the models i couldn't guess (GW have a **** poor record when it comes to dynamic models).

i have never been into the studio so i can't say how accurate the guy described what he saw, or whether those designs have made it any further than that. but i know that i can tell you that without worrying.

Starchild
24-05-2010, 13:50
I like all the new Eldar stuff so I'm fairly certain I'll like every DE model Jes sculpted (which from rumors is every single one of them).Harry says it's a group project involving more than just Jes for sculpting the models (as if he really needs any help...) :angel: So Dark Eldar development is probably similar to the Craftworld Eldar project, where Jes oversaw the entire design process with concept sketches, etc. while sharing the actual sculpting with his peers in the studio.

ursvamp
24-05-2010, 14:55
those Mandrake descriptions sounds like enerything I could wish for. Finally the most awesome unit in 40k, will also have the most awesome modeldesign.
Here's to hoping :)