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Friedrich von Offenbach
30-04-2010, 22:55
Not shure if this should be under background or not, but ehat is with Dantes mask thing? It seems to just ruin an enemy charecter( -WS, -W, -A, etc) but why? The codex says something about a curse or something, however why is he so special that he can hurt people by just being present, while things like plauge marines can't plauge people nearby?:confused:

Kurgash
30-04-2010, 23:01
Because he is part of the favorite child codex. Plague Marines used to be able to nurgle rot any non nurgle marked unit close by but Gav and Alessio figured 'less special rules gets more' or something.

As to why a certain fluff bit is included in the rules, I'm a bit confused about that myself. Even still, I tend to not worry about it. Just throw a Demon prince at him and the mask shouldn't work as it just hits characters as far as I know.

Col. Custard
30-04-2010, 23:03
Well, plague marines can hurt people nearby, its called close combat and shooting ;) I think its the difference of that Plague Marines, while old, would not have the special archeotech that Dante has at his disposal. According to his fluff, he is the oldest living space marine, and surely would have inhereted a great ammount of relics from the chapter storehouses. I believe the curse is merely an action taken out by the ancient piece of wargear that is Dante's mask, much like the mask of a howling banshee gives them that 'I always go first' or scorpions get the whole 'I always get an extra attack in addition' kind of thing, and their tech has been around for a long time as well, longer than Dante's mask.

kraken
30-04-2010, 23:07
It's one of the stupidest items going and it reeks of ran-out-of-ideas syndrome , look I have a golden gimp hat , you are rendered useless, ha ahahhhaa ha haaagh MAAAAAT WAAARD ! (think maaatt daamon)

sabre4190
30-04-2010, 23:12
It's one of the stupidest items going and it reeks of ran-out-of-ideas syndrome , look I have a golden gimp hat , you are rendered useless, ha ahahhhaa ha haaagh MAAAAAT WAAARD ! (think maaatt daamon)

Truth. I miss andy chambers. Sure, lots of what he did threw balance out the window (see: Codex Chaos Space Marines), but he actually put personality into the armies.

Jayden63
30-04-2010, 23:26
I look at it as Dante is just a huge coward and only attacks his enemies when they are sick and not feeling 100%. Thats why they fight in such a bad shape.

Its a dumb ass rule that should never have gotten put in. Table wide effects have been slowly gotten rid of (see psychic hoods) but no, not in a Matt Ward codex. But ultimately, why the hell does my 250 pt character loose 60 points of effectiveness just because Dante is somewhere on the field be it 1 or 100 inches away? It really hurts psychers who usually only have 2 wounds and need the higher LD for their checks.

I really hate the BA codex, not for its power curve. But just because so much of it so just so much stinky BS.

kraken
01-05-2010, 00:33
There is just no logicall reason why his hat would do that , it is by far one of the most ridiculous and ill-fitting items in the entire game....

You can't kill me , not with my Maaat Waaaard helmet !!

Isstvan
01-05-2010, 00:57
I look at it as Dante is just a huge coward and only attacks his enemies when they are sick and not feeling 100%. Thats why they fight in such a bad shape.

And this is different from a Plague Marine making someone sick how? Or infiltrating/outflanking to catch someone unawares?


It's one of the stupidest items going and it reeks of ran-out-of-ideas syndrome , look I have a golden gimp hat , you are rendered useless, ha ahahhhaa ha haaagh MAAAAAT WAAARD ! (think maaatt daamon)

The Death Mask of Sanguinius has been part of Dante's rules since the first Blood Angels Codex. If you're going to whine about something, you really should do a little background check on the rule before you start this sort of random complaining.


There is just no logicall reason why his hat would do that , it is by far one of the most ridiculous and ill-fitting items in the entire game....

You can't kill me , not with my Maaat Waaaard helmet !!

First of all, it does have a logical reason for it's effect. In the last BA 'Dex the rule states that the Death Mask is molded in the image of Sanguinius, and has a special energy field that creates the effect.

Second, if you're going to complain about 'logical' rules, how about starting with how a bunch of wolf tails and teeth can give Space Wolves actual benefits just because they believe they're magic? Or how Ork vehicles can take an upgrade that makes them move faster, just because they're painted red?

Overall, there isn't a single valid reason given in this thread for Dante -not- to have the rule. It's balanced, it's fair, and it's easily dealt with if you stop complaining for one second and consider how to counter it.

Mannimarco
01-05-2010, 01:06
Well, plague marines can hurt people nearby, its called close combat and shooting ;) I think its the difference of that Plague Marines, while old, would not have the special archeotech that Dante has at his disposal. According to his fluff, he is the oldest living space marine, and surely would have inhereted a great ammount of relics from the chapter storehouses. I believe the curse is merely an action taken out by the ancient piece of wargear that is Dante's mask, much like the mask of a howling banshee gives them that 'I always go first' or scorpions get the whole 'I always get an extra attack in addition' kind of thing, and their tech has been around for a long time as well, longer than Dante's mask.

Plague marines dont need any fancy ancient archeotech to hurt you, they're carriers of Nurgles Rot, a disease that is supposed to have a 100% mortality rate, you catch it (and its incredibly easy to do so, look at realm of chaos) and your dead no ifs ands or buts and no fancy armour/medical equipment is going to help you. Truth be told Nurgles Rot shouldnt even have an in game effect as it takes a short period of time to affect you (better than a S3 hit anyway)

I agree the mask is just a crappy idea. You have failed Matt Ward. A long running joke is "that must have taken a Tactical Genius........CREEEEEEED!!!!!!" Im beginning to wonder if we should have "Our power level has increased dramatically and we have stupid powerful rules that make no sense, but that must have taken a fanboy author.........WAAAAARD!!!!!!!!"

Isstvan
01-05-2010, 01:11
Matt Ward didn't write the original rule. And for the record, the original rule affected all enemy models within six inches. If anything, you should be thanking Matt Ward for making only affect your single precious character.

ehlijen
01-05-2010, 01:12
Think of it as the brain bug effect on the general in Starship troopers. The mask lets dante project a 'I'm gonna get you!' field and the target is suitably freaked out of his mind.

solkan
01-05-2010, 01:22
I think the appropriate response to this is "I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE DEEP STRIKING LAND RAIDERS!" :cries:

HerrDusty
01-05-2010, 01:27
It's easy enough to counter with Tyranids, just don't field a single Independant Character (easy enough to do as there's only two in the entire codex), then Dante has no one to "scare" with his silly mask.

Meanwhile, you field Deathleaper, and steal D3 points of his LD, while dancing around the table dissapearing and reappearing at will using it's "Where'd it go?" rule, always being off the table during the BA turn, to show how annoying such things are.

I'm not a fan of Dante's Death Mask rules, nor the Deathleaper's LD stealing rule, but at least the Deathleaper's ability stops when you kill it (and is nowhere near as massive a kick in the balls as having wounds and other stats nicked off you), the Death Mask leaves you with a gimped IC regardless of wether Dante is alive or dead :wtf:

Isstvan
01-05-2010, 01:33
It's easy enough to counter with Tyranids, just don't field a single Independant Character (easy enough to do as there's only two in the entire codex), then Dante has no one to "scare" with his silly mask.

Meanwhile, you field Deathleaper, and steal D3 points of his LD, while dancing around the table dissapearing and reappearing at will using it's "Where'd it go?" rule, always being off the table during the BA turn, to show how annoying such things are.

I'm not a fan of Dante's Death Mask rules, nor the Deathleaper's LD stealing rule, but at least the Deathleaper's ability stops when you kill it (and is nowhere near as massive a kick in the balls as having wounds and other stats nicked off you), the Death Mask leaves you with a gimped IC regardless of wether Dante is alive or dead :wtf:

Oh, I dunno about that. Eldar get pretty pissed when they can't get off their psychic powers, and Deathleaper can even cripple Mephiston's playability.

Inquisitor_Tolheim
01-05-2010, 01:41
Oh, I dunno about that. Eldar get pretty pissed when they can't get off their psychic powers, and Deathleaper can even cripple Mephiston's playability.

Well ONE of the lictors had to be useful.

The mask is ridiculous, but it's hardly game breaking so I don't see what the big deal is.

HerrDusty
01-05-2010, 01:41
Well the Eldar have a way of pissing off everyone else by making it much harder to get off their psychic powers (and Runes of Warding is tablewide and affects every enemy psyker on the table), so they can taste some of their own medicine and like it :p

I wouldn't say Mephiston is crippled by the Deathleaper, sure, it's harder for him to get his powers off, but he's still a 5 wound T6 arsekicking monster, haha. Anyway, the rules for the Deathleaper's LD stealing power are a bit vague, I get the feeling that GW will FAQ it to "independant characters", as the current wording of just "characters" leaves it open to arguments about what exactly constitutes a "character", so in the end, Mephiston might end up immune to it anyway, not being an IC.

I'm not saying that Dante's Death Mask or Deathleaper are game breaking, by any means, as there's always ways to counter them, I just don't like what they do in general, I'd find it very annoying to have my character's statline gimped permanently during a game simply due to a rule another character has. At least make the ability stop when Dante dies, sheesh.

Isstvan
01-05-2010, 01:43
Well the Eldar have a way of pissing off everyone else by making it much harder to get off their psychic powers (and Runes of Warding is tablewide and affects every enemy psyker on the table), so they can taste some of their own medicine and like it :p

I wouldn't say Mephiston is crippled by the Deathleaper, sure, it's harder for him to get his powers off, but he's still a 5 wound T6 arsekicking monster, haha. Anyway, the rules for the Deathleaper's LD stealing power are a bit vague, I get the feeling that GW will FAQ it to "independant characters", as the current wording of just "characters" leaves it open to arguments about what exactly constitutes a "character", so in the end, Mephiston might end up immune to it anyway, not being an IC.

If Mephiston can't fly, he's avoidable. Plain and simple. If you can't get Wings of Sanguinius off, there's no unit slow enough that he'll catch them.

HerrDusty
01-05-2010, 01:46
If Mephiston can't fly, he's avoidable. Plain and simple. If you can't get Wings of Sanguinius off, there's no unit slow enough that he'll catch them.

Welcome to the world of wingless Hive Tyrants, except Mephiston has Fleet, so he's not actually that slow if you want to get him into combat. Hive Tyrants can still get by though, so please excuse me if I decide not to play my tiny violin for Mephiston in mourning, when he fails to get his wings on :p

Project2501
01-05-2010, 01:50
And this is different from a Plague Marine making someone sick how? Or infiltrating/outflanking to catch someone unawares?



The Death Mask of Sanguinius has been part of Dante's rules since the first Blood Angels Codex. If you're going to whine about something, you really should do a little background check on the rule before you start this sort of random complaining.



First of all, it does have a logical reason for it's effect. In the last BA 'Dex the rule states that the Death Mask is molded in the image of Sanguinius, and has a special energy field that creates the effect.

Second, if you're going to complain about 'logical' rules, how about starting with how a bunch of wolf tails and teeth can give Space Wolves actual benefits just because they believe they're magic? Or how Ork vehicles can take an upgrade that makes them move faster, just because they're painted red?

Overall, there isn't a single valid reason given in this thread for Dante -not- to have the rule. It's balanced, it's fair, and it's easily dealt with if you stop complaining for one second and consider how to counter it.


Preach on brother! :)

Revelations
01-05-2010, 03:24
Overall, there isn't a single valid reason given in this thread for Dante -not- to have the rule. It's balanced, it's fair, and it's easily dealt with if you stop complaining for one second and consider how to counter it.
Not to have it? Abaddons sword should be strength-D. There's no reason for it not to. Balanced? My HQ, which is already stronger then most of the enemies, suddenly makes enemy HQ worse simple because he's around. Fair? My enemy has no way to prevent me from using the rule. Easily dealt with? It's only on one of the stronger HQ units in the game, that can take a powerful body guard.

Indeed, all I have to do to stop you from neutering my IC's is to destroy one of your most powerful units on the board before you kill my weakened HQ with the rule already in effect. Grand counter don't you think? :rolleyes:

Chem-Dog
01-05-2010, 04:03
If Mephiston can't fly, he's avoidable. Plain and simple. If you can't get Wings of Sanguinius off, there's no unit slow enough that he'll catch them.

Except for anything that's slow and purposeful? :D

Or Immobilised.

Personally I think Dante's Death mask should have been more Inspirational than Terrifying, yes it was always supposed to be scary to the enemy but the whole new slant on BA's is about striving for that most heroic aspect, not scaring the bjayzuss out of people with spooky masks.
The Nerf effect seems a little off when considering it in isolation, but in a game that increasingly seems to replace strategies and tactics in favour of unavoidable or uncounterable gambits and set pieces, this is about par for the course. Take away all ability to pull a 1st turn charge and make assaulting armies have to endure a hail of fire while they close in and then come back and complain about Dante's "hat".

Logarithm Udgaur
01-05-2010, 05:23
It's easy enough to counter with Tyranids, just don't field a single Independant Character (easy enough to do as there's only two in the entire codex), then Dante has no one to "scare" with his silly mask.


Pretty easy to do with the IG codex as well. Most of the good characters are not ICs.

DigitalDogParty
01-05-2010, 05:33
I don't understand; people are upset that some dude who can be killed just as easily as any other special character...can subtract one point from certain stats? Sure it's permanent, but if you heavily rely on Independent Characters so much...c'mon. Dante or Independent Characters aren't game breaking. They can be strong, but they can fall to anything. Certain people have annoying abilities. We whine, we moan, but in the end we realize that there could be worse. Just wait for future codexes to be released. We are just terrified of new things.

Jayden63
01-05-2010, 06:19
Dante has a 2+/4++ save and 4 damn wounds with Eternal Warrior. Since when is that easy to take care of?

Also, why should Logan Grimnar, Lysander, Calgar, or any other named chapter master who have just as much fame and history as Dante suffer 60 points or more worth of stat penalties just because Dante is standing in that corner way on the complete opposite side of the table away. I paid those points to get Logan's/Lysander's/Calgar's/etc. stats as they are. Not some gimped version of them.

The masks ability is total BS.

Also was Dantes points stupidly increased by 60+ points to make the difference? Does he cost 300 points? No he doesn't, so where is the balance? Because even without his death mask he would be worth what he currently costs.

There is no balance against that mask ability.

Clearly digitaldogpoarty doesn't run librarians. LD9 with one wound is just asking to autofrag himself with a perils check. Yeah knocking off one wound/LD whatever from someone who has high stats, but when your only independant HQ is a Librarian, or battle leader, or Shas'el crisis suit commander. Suddenly those minuses really add up when the guy doesn't have the stats to spare in the first place.

I'd love to see two BA players face off both running Dante. Lets see how badly it sucks to be either of them. Probably the only way they will ever know just how bad of a rule the death mask is.

DigitalDogParty
01-05-2010, 06:30
Dante has a 2+/4++ save and 4 damn wounds with Eternal Warrior. Since when is that easy to take care of?

Also, why should Logan Grimnar, Lysander, Calgar, or any other named chapter master who have just as much fame and history as Dante suffer 60 points or more worth of stat penalties just because Dante is standing in that corner way on the complete opposite side of the table away. I paid those points to get Logan's/Lysander's/Calgar's/etc. stats as they are. Not some gimped version of them.

The masks ability is total BS.

Also was Dantes points stupidly increased by 60+ points to make the difference? Does he cost 300 points? No he doesn't, so where is the balance? Because even without his death mask he would be worth what he currently costs.

There is no balance against that mask ability.

Clearly digitaldogpoarty doesn't run librarians. LD9 with one wound is just asking to autofrag himself with a perils check. Yeah knocking off one wound/LD whatever from someone who has high stats, but when your only independant HQ is a Librarian, or battle leader, or Shas'el crisis suit commander. Suddenly those minuses really add up when the guy doesn't have the stats to spare in the first place.

I'd love to see two BA players face off both running Dante. Lets see how badly it sucks to be either of them. Probably the only way they will ever know just how bad of a rule the death mask is.

Clearly? Whoa. If there was ever a point to arguing over the internet, then I'd probably put more effort into this response. Yes, I do use Librarians. Also, I do Eldar as well. Seeing that the Farseers are quite important, I can understand your statement. Thing is, there are plenty of things to point at and call it "BS". In our gaming "community", Swarmlords are obnoxious with their instant deaths and whatnot. Also, they can be added with Guard, making that a little group with a lot of wounds. That's another thing. Instant death stuff. That, and remove from play. Those things irk me more than some dude who's there to **** off one Independent Character. Plus, I'm pretty sure not every Blood Angels list has Dante in it. And that reminds me, the Blood Angels codex has no instant death attacks or weapons in there. I'd say that's pretty cool considering the rise of such abilities.

ehlijen
01-05-2010, 06:33
Dante does not have any protection from instant death. Get a powerfist near him and he'll run like he just looked in the mirror.

As for why the mask does what it does: It's psychic future tech. It defies logic in the same way other psychic powers do.

Do I like it? Not really, but then again, I also don't like railguns blowing up my tanks or marbo stepping out of my captain's shadow to unleash pie plate death.

Dante is actually a poor fighter for his cost. Even with the mask penalty, logan and Calgar will mop the floor with him. If it wasn't for hit and run and the mask, he'd never be taken by anyone.

Project2501
01-05-2010, 06:35
Dante has a 2+/4++ save and 4 damn wounds with Eternal Warrior. Since when is that easy to take care of?

Also, why should Logan Grimnar, Lysander, Calgar, or any other named chapter master who have just as much fame and history as Dante suffer 60 points or more worth of stat penalties just because Dante is standing in that corner way on the complete opposite side of the table away. I paid those points to get Logan's/Lysander's/Calgar's/etc. stats as they are. Not some gimped version of them.

The masks ability is total BS.

Also was Dantes points stupidly increased by 60+ points to make the difference? Does he cost 300 points? No he doesn't, so where is the balance? Because even without his death mask he would be worth what he currently costs.

There is no balance against that mask ability.

Clearly digitaldogpoarty doesn't run librarians. LD9 with one wound is just asking to autofrag himself with a perils check. Yeah knocking off one wound/LD whatever from someone who has high stats, but when your only independant HQ is a Librarian, or battle leader, or Shas'el crisis suit commander. Suddenly those minuses really add up when the guy doesn't have the stats to spare in the first place.

I'd love to see two BA players face off both running Dante. Lets see how badly it sucks to be either of them. Probably the only way they will ever know just how bad of a rule the death mask is.


Wipe the froth from your mouth.
Lysander isn't a chapter master.
The death mask could affect everyone/thing within a radius instead of only one model.

Maybe in a miniature army modelling wargame, you should rely more on the 'army', and this is GW's answer to the cries of "Enough with all the special characters already!" in glorious irony as Dante is himself, a special character.

2+/4+ is not unheard of, and t4 still gets instagibbed by str8+ (among other things) of which there is plenty in this game.
And last but not least, the sky is not falling.

Jayden63
01-05-2010, 06:45
Kinda hard to insta-gib things that have eternal warrior is it not? Or was the guy I was playing against giving Dante a few extra rules?

the hivemind
01-05-2010, 06:46
Plague Marines used to be able to nurgle rot any non nurgle marked unit close by but Gav and Alessio figured 'less special rules gets more' or something.

yeah, personally i always felt that this was a load of crap.

people should have realized by now that "streamlining" (an excuse to be lazy and uncreative in my opinion) will only bring bad things in the long run.

after all, special rules are a part of what makes the army special.

i miss things like nurgle's rot, khornate chainaxes, and all the veteran skills and daemonic gifts that CSM used to have.

it made ech army a lot more individual and easy to customize.
these days every CSM army "tastes the same".

DigitalDogParty
01-05-2010, 06:50
Kinda hard to insta-gib things that have eternal warrior is it not? Or was the guy I was playing against giving Dante a few extra rules?


I'm looking at the codex right now. It says that he doesn't have Eternal Warrior. And his rule subtracts one point from: Weapon skill, Wound, Initiative, and Attack.


And now that I look at it, he's only at strength four, and toughness four.

ehlijen
01-05-2010, 06:51
Kinda hard to insta-gib things that have eternal warrior is it not? Or was the guy I was playing against giving Dante a few extra rules?

I have no idea where he got that from. Dante has neither Eternel warrior nor any other rule of such benefit. Any powerfist sergeant has a decent shot at slaying him.

Jayden63
01-05-2010, 06:55
Wipe the froth from your mouth.


He he. I just get so pissed off when I ponder all the crap that this new codex has brought into the game. Its just such a poorly designed codex for what should be considered an divergent chapter. I'd easily rank it as the worst codex to come out since the 4th ed Chaos codex.

Its just badly thought out and implemented. I'm not even talking about power. The Chaos codex can create some very powerful lists, but its all still stupidly done. Just like I'm sure the BA codex can make just as many crap lists as OTT lists. Doesn't mean its a good or even balanced codex.

Project2501
01-05-2010, 06:56
Kinda hard to insta-gib things that have eternal warrior is it not? Or was the guy I was playing against giving Dante a few extra rules?


In neither the PDF dex nor the new true 5th dex does he have eternal warrior.

I think a lot of people in this thread need to have a 'chat' with their BA opponents about exactly who has what for rules/stats.

Jayden63
01-05-2010, 06:58
I have no idea where he got that from. Dante has neither Eternel warrior nor any other rule of such benefit. Any powerfist sergeant has a decent shot at slaying him.

Hmm... must have words with a certain someone next time we meet. Sorry for my ranting. I was taking his word on that Dante had everything plus the kitchen sink. I have no intention of ever buying that codex. The BA army has never interested me in the slightest.

DigitalDogParty
01-05-2010, 07:03
Hmm... must have words with a certain someone next time we meet. Sorry for my ranting. I was taking his word on that Dante had everything plus the kitchen sink. I have no intention of ever buying that codex. The BA army has never interested me in the slightest.

It's completely fine; at least with me. I mean, I'm pretty sure lots of people out there have set their minds on one codex/army/character that has pissed them off so much that they feel like it was made to mock them. I have to admit that I curse here and there over a codex or a...character. I personally believe that Games Workshop are raising the bar on "Wild n' crazy" things in these newer armies. They want to experiment and get an interesting new take on the game. Like I've said before, Instant death and remove from play abilities are what hits me the most. But hey, everyone has their thing. I only started Blood Angels because it was perfect timing. I was getting bored with Eldar, and they just came out.

Project2501
01-05-2010, 07:04
He he. I just get so pissed off when I ponder all the crap that this new codex has brought into the game. Its just such a poorly designed codex for what should be considered an divergent chapter. I'd easily rank it as the worst codex to come out since the 4th ed Chaos codex.

Its just badly thought out and implemented. I'm not even talking about power. The Chaos codex can create some very powerful lists, but its all still stupidly done. Just like I'm sure the BA codex can make just as many crap lists as OTT lists. Doesn't mean its a good or even balanced codex.


No worries, I actually feel the same way about tyranids.

I have yet to actualy buy the BA dex, I just memorize more and more every chance I get. I'll probably have plenty of :wtf: moments myself as soon as I get a copy and piddle around with it truth be told.

It seems that people are taking liberties and creating new rules/abilities due to the 'newness' of the dex and therefore general lack of knowledge about it.

DigitalDogParty
01-05-2010, 07:09
Actually, now that I think of it, the thing that pissed my enemies the most on are the Dreadnoughts with the Blood Talons. I have taken out entire Gaunt and Ork squads in one turn with those things. Those things are pretty crazy, but if you're up against a vehicle, you might not do much. Still, assaulting with a Dreadnought and seeing your opponent curse so much that half of the words are made up, really puts a smile on your face.


And yes! I despise the Tyranid codex myself. Things that soak up and absorb wounds for 90 points...large things that come up and might instant kill you...it's crazy. Very crazy.

Fell
01-05-2010, 09:01
I still find it strange that the Death Mask of Sanguinius, modelled on the awe-inspiring visage of the noblest of primarchs as he laid slain, should be so scary that Abbadon is so afraid he is weakened, while a lowly guardsman can walk by thinking "Oh, nice shiny hat."

Logarithm Udgaur
01-05-2010, 09:06
No doubt. The 6" radius thing that he apparently used to have seems way more in line with logic, common sense, and general notstupidness.

chromedog
01-05-2010, 11:46
Dante gimped my GKGM last game (the ONLY IC in my army).

So I shot him with a multimelta from my dread.
He died.

Not a problem.

Sarapham
01-05-2010, 13:06
I think the greatest problem about it is that it lingers. I mean if it would go away together with Dante then it would be countered easily enough, but as it stands you can never get rid of it which means it it not easily countered, in fact you cannot counter it at all since it will be there for ever and ever.

It is not game breaking, just strange that he of all people (and monsters) in the whole galaxy is the most fearsome thing there is, even if he has a magical mask to help with it.

Logarithm Udgaur
01-05-2010, 13:17
I think it is Ward's attempt to add the Ark of the Covenant into 40K.

Znail
01-05-2010, 16:26
I think the greatest problem about it is that it lingers. I mean if it would go away together with Dante then it would be countered easily enough, but as it stands you can never get rid of it which means it it not easily countered, in fact you cannot counter it at all since it will be there for ever and ever.

It is not game breaking, just strange that he of all people (and monsters) in the whole galaxy is the most fearsome thing there is, even if he has a magical mask to help with it.

Its easy to explain why it lingers. Its the mask that does it and even if you kill Dante so doesnt that mean the mask is destroyed.

Chem-Dog
01-05-2010, 16:51
I don't understand; people are upset that some dude who can be killed just as easily as any other special character...can subtract one point from certain stats?

TBH I'm not surprised people get a bit peeved, if nothing else it's an auto wound, in a game where you're lucky to get four of them, it can be a fairly big deal.



I'd love to see two BA players face off both running Dante. Lets see how badly it sucks to be either of them. Probably the only way they will ever know just how bad of a rule the death mask is.

Well, if you're suggesting the Two Dantes would curse each other and then duel, it'd be handbags at dawn....


I'm looking at the codex right now. It says that he doesn't have Eternal Warrior. And his rule subtracts one point from: Weapon skill, Wound, Initiative, and Attack.


And now that I look at it, he's only at strength four, and toughness four.

Doesn't the Axe Mortalus give +1 St? Don't have the book to hand ATM.


Its easy to explain why it lingers. Its the mask that does it and even if you kill Dante so doesnt that mean the mask is destroyed.

Or even when you've "Killed" Dante, he isn't actually dead, instead he's badly wounded, suffering critical armour failure or whatever.

Warlord Gnashgrod
01-05-2010, 17:40
Doesn't the Axe Mortalus give +1 St? Don't have the book to hand ATM.

Nope, the Axe is only a master crafted power weapon. So he isn't all that bad.

And all those complaining about the fact that there is whining...don't worry. When the next Codex comes out(whoever it will be for), that codex will be the target of all the whining, as it will be the new 'auto-broken' 'dex. :rolleyes:

Kurgash
01-05-2010, 18:22
Now does the mask only work if dante is fighting that affected character or can you use it to soften up someone then throw mephiston at him? Like drugging up the sorority chick and throwing the football captain at her.

TheDarkDuke
01-05-2010, 18:22
Nope, the Axe is only a master crafted power weapon. So he isn't all that bad.

And all those complaining about the fact that there is whining...don't worry. When the next Codex comes out(whoever it will be for), that codex will be the target of all the whining, as it will be the new 'auto-broken' 'dex. :rolleyes:

Just like how everyone was complaining how overpowered the nids were when they got released..... oh wait:rolleyes:.

That said i havent played blood angels so i cant truly say they are over powered or not (even if they are i doubt there as broken as fantasy daemons) but i do have to admit some of these rules for there special characters just seem stupid.

Iverald
01-05-2010, 18:31
Oh noes... thar iz a rool I no liek! Broken, stoopid, the End is Nigh! :eek::eek::eek:

Come on people. Why I the re is no moaning about Sammael's Adamantite Mantle? Hell, a blessed piece of cloth helps you shrug mortal wounds!? WTF. :wtf:

Kurgash
01-05-2010, 18:45
Oh noes... thar iz a rool I no liek! Broken, stoopid, the End is Nigh! :eek::eek::eek:

Come on people. Why I the re is no moaning about Sammael's Adamantite Mantle? Hell, a blessed piece of cloth helps you shrug mortal wounds!? WTF. :wtf:

Because that was the norm from 4th edition and chaos 3.5th edition. It's different when you suddenly just declare 'ok, your 200 some odd character is now a weakend old man because I have a guy with a glowing mask on the field AND there is nothing you can do, even killing the model doesn't take away the dilapidation.

That brings cause to some moaning, because this is a character every BA player will field.

Project2501
01-05-2010, 19:22
That brings cause to some moaning, because this is a character every BA player will field.


1: I have to call Boulderdash...

2: Feel free to bring your t4 2+/4+ prettyboy that makes a certain someone weak in the knees, I have plenty of other models in the rest of my army that couldn't care less. Last time I checked this was not Inquisitor/Necromunda, we all have an entire army list at our disposal.

3: I reiterate my belief that this is GW's answer to the cries of "Enough with all the special characters already!!" in beautiful irony as Dante is himself, a special character.

Isstvan
01-05-2010, 20:01
Thanks to all the people who've backed me up, as far as the rule being counterable and fair. As a summary:

1. Dante can be one-shotted with minimal effort, leaving only one effect on the game.

2. This effect only works on a -single- model in your opponent's army, and anyone relying on a single model to win them a game is just plain asking for it given their lack of strategy and general ability to play a game.

3. There are plenty of precedents for a miniature reducing the stats of an enemy. Deathleaper, Psyker Battle Squads, and the list goes on. You should be happy it only affects one model, rather than crippling -everyone- he fights in close combat.

4. That single piece of wargear is the only real unique item he carries. No Bike of the Aporkalypse, no special daemonsword, no uber-glove of killyness... So yes, it has a suitably impressive effect.

Overall, he's not a game breaker. To anyone who claims he is, I suggest you learn to actually use your army, rather than relying on your Independent Characters to win you games.