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View Full Version : Battle for Abyss questions-WHY????



Aedes
30-04-2010, 23:21
Yes, I know, I am a bit late reading this book-- and I admit I am NOT reading them in order....
just started with Battle for the Abyss.
And on the first 20 pages, i was already going :wtf:.

First- if the Word Bearers had this super mega Deathstar ship, already in the freaking earth solar system, why WHY didnt they just fly the few kilometers to earth and bomb the unsuspecting emperor there?
Wouldnt that made much more sense than flying millions of kms to get some random SM legion?
That would have saved them a lot of time, deaths and might have brought victory.... because by then, the emperor didnt know a thing?

Second- isnt the earth solar system the busiest in the galaxy?
So why WHy is it possible that a giant mega death star ship can be built
there and flying around there without anyone noticing?????

Somehow, I dont get it.

A thousand sons and Flight of the Eisenstein made so much more sense....

MasterGideon
01-05-2010, 00:06
The World Bearers hated the Ultramarines, hence why the went to wipe them, or least destroy the legion, and on your second point I was under the impression that the ship wasnt built in the solar system, but in a uncharted or least unused system and space is big! I mean really big! so its a weak story yes, but just accept the good bits, namely the thousand sons/World Eater and space wolf just beating the crap out of traitors!

MasterGideon

ICEMANQ
01-05-2010, 00:23
Despite the power of the ship it would never have been able to get near Earth - as soon as it deviated from accepted 'space pathing' it would have been destroyed. It can be built because it was inside an asteroid belt or something similar I think? Plus, no one is going to question a Legion's doings/Mechanicum doings.

Aedes
01-05-2010, 00:56
Well, the ship was built in the big Mechanicus ship yard at JUPITER. The techpriest from mars even quickly flies over to check on it.
And the traitor tech priests and Word Bearers did this because Horus ordered it....
In my humble opinion, does not make sense, what a waste of resources.
Even if the Word Bearers hate the Ultramarines, Horus should know better.

Icemanq-- if this ship was so powerful, and NOBODY even suspected yet that
there were traitors existing-- I think this ship would have had a REAL chance
to make a BIG dent into the imperial palace....

Sorry, I am a Chaos player, and I can NOT believe Horus would be so stupid
to waste something like this giant weapon on the boring Ultramarines....

Grubnar
01-05-2010, 07:36
... Somehow, I dont get it.

Oh man, let me tell you, you are not the only one!
That book is BY FAR the worst of all the HH books (so far at least) and I think Ben Counter is a fine author. I absolutly loved Deamon World.
Strange, eh?

MajorWesJanson
01-05-2010, 10:58
The Furious Abyss was going to take out Macragge by destroying a small moon to overwhelm the orbital defenses. It could not take on the defenses on it's own.

Built in a shipyard around Jupiter, but honestly, space is big. until you get pretty close, all you would see of a ship is its transponder code, which doesn't tell you much about it.

Attacking Earth- if Macragge's defenses could have held off the Word Bearer's fleet, Earth's defenses could have easily taken it out. The Super lance is powerful, but Battlefleet Solar based in Luna has ridiculus amounts of firepower, plus Luna itself, plus the orbital defenses of Terra, plus ground based weapons. Terra also probably has void shields protecting important parts of it, like the Palace.

dragonet111
01-05-2010, 11:26
I also read this book and I'm agree it's not the best of HH (my number one is the one with Sanguinius because I'm a blood angels player:D I know it's lame).

Do you think the Furious Abyss was smaller or bigger than the Planetkiller?

FlashGordon
01-05-2010, 11:32
Was it a secret to begin with? Maybe Horus just decided that the wordbearers needed a big initimidating weapon to use agains resisting forces?

Edit:I mean that "loyal" forces probably would belive this.

BaronDG
01-05-2010, 12:39
It doesn't get any better. It does however get worse.

gunmonkey
01-05-2010, 15:39
Well if they had just wandered off to attack the palace, they would have been crippled and boarded by the hundreds of battleships around Terra/Mars.

The boarders would have found Word Bearers onboard, or at least their involvement would have been tortured out of the ships crew.

Lorgar would be summoned before the Emporer to explain, if Horus let him go down then he loses a big ally in the eventual Heresy. If he stood behind Lorgar, his hand could be forced by the big E and it would be all for nowt.

Lupe
01-05-2010, 18:29
At this point the Word Bearers probably weren't fully consumed by the Dark Gods, though. They hadn't sworn to let the galaxy burn yet.

Besides, they saw themselves as apostles. You can't really have a galaxy full of preachers without anyone to preach to, right? It would make *some* sense for them to use a superweapon against a military target, rather than, say, the symbol of the Imperium. The whole Heresy was meant to secure keep Terra intact, so the transition to galaxy wide Chaos worship could go as smoothly as possible.

And besides, no ship is invulnerable. Blow up Earth instead of Ultramar, and you'd have all the Legions (well, the loyalist ones, at any rate) coming for you. Not to mention you'd give away the ace up your sleeve. Even a ship like that would be no match for the full fleet of the Imperial Fists. And I'm willing to bet theirs weren't the only loyalist warships in the Terran system.

FlashGordon
01-05-2010, 19:43
Btw, im quite sure that Horus and lorgar would want as much of the imperial palace intact(astronomican someone?). It makess sense if you can think outside the box.

KingDeath
01-05-2010, 23:25
The real question is, why was this piece of garbage ever written?
I mean, the bad guys are not only utter ****** but also highly incompetent. The plot has more holes than your average guardsmen after a Chaos Invasion
while story itself was about as exciting as Papa Smurfs latest treatise on the correct dresscode for Ultramarines. The best was the last page because, unlike the eternal torment in the nastiest part of the warp which will most certainly await the author ( the Wordbearers must be pretty annoyed by now :D ), the book has a definite end. :D

will564752
01-05-2010, 23:32
Yes, I know, I am a bit late reading this book-- and I admit I am NOT reading them in order....
just started with Battle for the Abyss.
And on the first 20 pages, i was already going :wtf:.

First- if the Word Bearers had this super mega Deathstar ship, already in the freaking earth solar system, why WHY didnt they just fly the few kilometers to earth and bomb the unsuspecting emperor there?
Wouldnt that made much more sense than flying millions of kms to get some random SM legion?
That would have saved them a lot of time, deaths and might have brought victory.... because by then, the emperor didnt know a thing?

Because that would have created a massive power vacuum (assuming it would have worked - which is highly doubtful), which Horus wouldn't have been in a position to fill. Especially with all the loyalist Astartes Legions running around at full strength.


Second- isnt the earth solar system the busiest in the galaxy?
So why WHy is it possible that a giant mega death star ship can be built
there and flying around there without anyone noticing?????

The Solar System regardless is massive in comparison to a ship or even a fleet of ships.

When you have finished Battle for the Abyss you will have many more serious ':wtf:' moments.


At this point the Word Bearers probably weren't fully consumed by the Dark Gods, though. They hadn't sworn to let the galaxy burn yet.

I dunno, take into account Lorgar turned to Chaos quite a while before Ullanor (possibly decades before) and had already initiated the Second Purge of the Brotherhood. And thats aside from the fact that he worshipped Chaos in some form on Colchis before he was discovered by the Imperials.

FarseerMatt
01-05-2010, 23:48
The Solar System regardless is massive in comparison to a ship or even a fleet of ships.

Yep, but heat from an artificial source is very, very noticeable against the backdrop. Even the modern space shuttle, using just its maneouvring jets, produces enough heat to be detectable out past the asteroid belt. Using its main engines, it can be seen from past Pluto.

Even if the Abyss wasn't under power, heat from life support would give it away (there's a big and very detectable difference between 20 degrees C room temperature and -270 C deep space).

Bear in mind this is just with some basic infrared telescope, and not with whatever warp-based supersensors the Imperium uses to circumvent lightspeed lag.

Jonny_N
02-05-2010, 09:47
However big that ship was, it was just one ship, going up against the most protected planet in the known galaxy, Terra. Thats why they didnt attack it, they would lose. The objective was to eliminate the problem of the ultramarines, spread the loyalist forces thin and delay/destroy them so that Horus had a clear shot at Terra without reinforcements coming. The Alpha legion were sent to tie up other legions too. I really didnt like Furious abyss as a book however, its the only Horus Heresy book I havent re-read (not from a writing point, but because the story doesnt interest me compared to whats going on in the other novels)

Aedes
02-05-2010, 09:59
Uhm, yes, I think you are right and there will be more :wtf: moments....

I am still not convinced...
was Terra as protected in 30k as it is in 40k?
What were they afraid of?
no tyrannids yet, no chaos legions in the open....
and didnt they have the Imperial Fists first building all the defenses
as soon as they find out about Horus?

But this novel happens BEFORE all security gets beefed up?

I also didnt imagine that the Word bearers would fly to Earth
guns blazing... just more like "Houston, we have a problem...
stand by....", then they position themself, and then fire....
"oups..."

Emperor's Scourge
02-05-2010, 10:44
When I first saw this title I immediately thought, "yes...why would anyone ask questions about Battle for Abyss?"

Its madness. Stare not into the Abyss lest the Abyss stare back.

Talos402000
02-05-2010, 20:30
The reason why Horus did not order the Furious Abyss to destroy the Emperor's palace is very simple. To quote Abbaddon the Despoiler:

"Horus was a fool"

Explains alot, yeah?:)

Karl MkVI
02-05-2010, 20:39
Horus needed to defeat all the loyalists, not just do a bit of damage to the palace. putting a couple of dents into Terra, too early, and attracting a lot of loyalist attention, would basically just be extremely stupid.

plus, no matter if Terra's defences weren't as good as in 40k, one ship without prior clearance would still get owned long before it got anywhere near Terra.

and no, this wasnt necessarily before Terra was being fortified; although it's not precisely clear when exactly the start of the book takes place, what we do know is that Kelbor-Hal has already betrayed the Imperium, so Terra is at the very least to be fortified, even if the work hasnt started yet (the fortification was an order that was underway long before the Heresy came to light (see Horus Rising)). so lots of activity around Terra.

also, remember that the Abyss is designed with a very specific method in mind; blowing up a moon, in order to damage the Ultras; it's not designed to blow up the palace