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Shadowsinner
30-04-2010, 23:44
so regardless of what your opinion of the 25 percent rule is, I am just curious as to get an idea of what characters many armies could take in say a 3000 point list. Trying to consider the new rumores, here are my Dark Elf selections...

Supreme Sorceress- sacrificial dagger, pendant of khaeleth= 275

sorceress- tome of furion= 115

death hag- BSB, cauldron of blood= 225

assassin- extra hand weapon, manbane= 121

making a total of 736 points.

Kalandros
01-05-2010, 00:21
... Its bloody useless to talk about all this until we know the real facts and not just the rumors.

So much cluttering in General forum ]: this belongs in army building.

~PrometheuS~
01-05-2010, 01:47
DE assassin are brought for units arent they, dont take up a char slot, so shouldnt take up percentages

Unlike poor skaven, who got boned in that department... :cries:

VonUber
01-05-2010, 02:08
Dark elves (lets go with 2k as thats what most people play)
I would take my trusty dread lord and a level 4
Chaos
Chaos lord and two level 1s
Ogres
A bull and butcher. (cant fit a tyrant in)

ftayl5
01-05-2010, 03:21
I love and hate this rule, such a nerf for lizardmen. 2000pt battle you can take a slann but it wont be very good, and you cant combine it with an EOTG. Mostly, this shouldnt be a problemo for my armies, just no dragons or griffons or stegadons or dragons in less than a 3000pt game, and I dont have a dragon so yeah....

I don't see tik tak toe or any of teh special charatcers fitting into this rule, unelss they're the only character

Orktavius
01-05-2010, 04:22
I don't see how stopping someone from taking both a slann and an EOTG in a 2k point game is so much a nerf for lizardman as much as it is a power check. Seems like the purpose of the rule should it be true is to force people into more balanced builds be it casual players or tourny players. That being said, I'm fairly sure GW rightly doesn't give a rats **** how pissed off tourny players get as the game isn't built to revolve around them. If they combine % and slots it's probably to force more balanced lists for every race

Kalandros
01-05-2010, 04:58
And just to make it obvious to everyone (I don't play Daemons btw)

I'll be taking at 2000 pts

Skulltaker, The Masque, Herald of Tzeentch and some other hero cause I can still fit another one

So how is this a power check again?
If they don't Errata the whole demon codex, it will not do much for them while limiting everyone else.

At 2500 pts (625 = 25%) I can take
(200) Skulltaker on Juggernaut, (190) Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut + Sword & Armor, (140) herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery and (81) blue scribes

fun..

~PrometheuS~
01-05-2010, 09:05
And just to make it obvious to everyone (I don't play Daemons btw)

I'll be taking at 2000 pts

Skulltaker, The Masque, Herald of Tzeentch and some other hero cause I can still fit another one

So how is this a power check again?
If they don't Errata the whole demon codex, it will not do much for them while limiting everyone else.

At 2500 pts (625 = 25%) I can take
(200) Skulltaker on Juggernaut, (190) Herald of Khorne on Juggernaut + Sword & Armor, (140) herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery and (81) blue scribes

fun..

Yeah if the rumours are true, ill be doing a DoC army lol

SeaSwift
01-05-2010, 09:08
Hey, DoC are already the most overpowered army out there, but with the 1-save rule, perhaps those Ward Saves won't be so great after all...

Still, I face DoC in 8th with great apprehension...

Memnos
01-05-2010, 09:28
I'm not too afraid of the DoC list in 8th. With a single save and 2 ranks attacking, Heralds will die quickly.

Lessee... 6 ogres that can attack him. No champions, so no challenges... 18 s4 ap attacks? I should be able to kill him for exactly 10 points more than the cost of buying him. He's got 2 wounds. Big deal. Heck, with the new step up rule he even has to be concerned about my Gnoblar Horde units just because of sheer numbers of attacks coming back.

Desert Rain
01-05-2010, 09:43
Probably an archmage, a mage, a BSB and noble. Can't really be more specific than that the moment.

Possibly a Prince, Mage, Mage, BSB depending on how magic works.

Ovassilias
01-05-2010, 09:58
if were talking about 3k and 750 limit, one character setup ill be using is:

Vamp lord, lvl, master, summon ghouls, wallachs hauberg, helm 395
necro, dance, invo, book 105
necro, dance, invo, scroll 95
necro, dance, invo, periapt 85
necro, dance, invo 70

backed up by 2 or 3 corpse carts with balefire.
My combat vamps are 2x varghulfs ;)

Talos
01-05-2010, 15:20
For my skaven a Warlord on war-litter and then fill up on warlocks.

inq.serge
01-05-2010, 15:43
Lord (lady), slaaneshi, book of secrets, third eye, bloodcurdeling roar, steed of slaanesh, runesword and warrior familiar

(US2 fear causer, Fast cav, very good bait, faster then hell, with possibility to move 40" a turn, and march and shoot (with 360 arc), and has a good No AS shooting attack, and magic (with 360 Arc), and can use the opponents spells instead of her own, 3+AS, hits harder then hell, the warrior familiar lets her kill off champs or banner bearers before anything (Impact hits, challenges, ASF) else in combat, can beat most things in combat, has a possibility to get get better stats and saves on the go, and has to challenge, and challenging a champ, she can cause enough overkill to defeat SCR, breaking the unit. She can do almost anything, she is "THE" Serge. )


Throgg
(Troll hero that lets me take trolls as core. d6 vomits instead of 1 as ordinary trolls. awsome stats. Also counts as an extra general and extra BSB for monsters and monstrous units.)


Sorceress, tzeentch, lvl2, disk, puppet
(If it's true that you can chose spells, then, well, your magic phase is screwed. Screwed hard. )

Urgat
01-05-2010, 16:54
I'm not too afraid of the DoC list in 8th. With a single save and 2 ranks attacking, Heralds will die quickly.

Lessee... 6 ogres that can attack him. No champions, so no challenges... 18 s4 ap attacks? I should be able to kill him for exactly 10 points more than the cost of buying him. He's got 2 wounds. Big deal. Heck, with the new step up rule he even has to be concerned about my Gnoblar Horde units just because of sheer numbers of attacks coming back.

You also forget the stampede thing and loooooots of sharp stuff :)

gork or maybe mork
01-05-2010, 19:44
This should actually make orcs n goblins better. In 2250, i can fit in a black orc warboss, a black orc bsb, and a goblin shaman on a chariot. Since other races can;t take so many mages with the cap, 2 scrolls and +3 dispel dice for the magic banner should be enough to shut down most magic phases

Spiney Norman
01-05-2010, 23:03
It totally depends on how the magic system works in 8th Ed. Will I be wanting a single L2, 2 L2s, a single L4 or a L4 and L2 at 2K? Theres just no way of knowing what a sensible build will be.

I don't imagine I'll be using my TK army as they're getting done over rather too badly, so I'm likely going to start my 8th Ed career by bringing my Night Goblins up to scratch. I imagine I'll led with Skarsnik as I do now, maybe a could of L2 shamen (depending on magic rumours) and a BSB.

Zurubbu
02-05-2010, 00:22
I'm not too afraid of the DoC list in 8th. With a single save and 2 ranks attacking, Heralds will die quickly.

Lessee... 6 ogres that can attack him. No champions, so no challenges... 18 s4 ap attacks? I should be able to kill him for exactly 10 points more than the cost of buying him. He's got 2 wounds. Big deal. Heck, with the new step up rule he even has to be concerned about my Gnoblar Horde units just because of sheer numbers of attacks coming back.

Even Khorne heralds on juggernauts?

18 S4 ap attacks... that's 0,5 wounds isn't it? 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound and 2+ save with jugger and armour.

For gnoblars it's... Idk, but should be around 200 gnoblars needed to kill a Khorne jugger herald with armour. 5+ to hit, 6+ to wound and 0+ save.

Heralds of Slaanesh and tzeentch die like always and heralds of nurgle die a bit easier.

OT:
My DE will propably be a hero mage and a few masters with great weapons.

Cognitave
02-05-2010, 00:48
I was thinking of a tooled up Vampire Lord, and 3 necromancers with an extra spell. This would be at 3000, of course, and assuming there's nothing for VC.

Ramius4
02-05-2010, 00:51
I will use different characters in every game I play, just as I do now. Why would I want to use the same army every game? Boring...

Orktavius
02-05-2010, 01:34
Even if DoC will still be overpowered...at least now they won't be bringing the heralds AND a freaking blood thirster at 2k

Kevlar
02-05-2010, 01:58
Plague Priest on Plague furnace x how ever many I can field.

(2 in 2000, 3 in 3000)

Havock
02-05-2010, 14:23
Even if DoC will still be overpowered...at least now they won't be bringing the heralds AND a freaking blood thirster at 2k

Not that it matters because you won't be taking a dragon or something either. Meaning you simply fight them on equal footing, which, seeing as we are talking about daemons, is not even at all :p

grumbaki
02-05-2010, 18:38
At 2000 points, here is what I am thinking...

Dawi
* Runelord: Anvil of Doom, Gromril Armor with the rune of preservation, talisman with the master rune of spite, great weapon, shield (384)
* Thane: Battle Standard, Gromril Armor with the rune gromril (115)
Total: 499 points

A runelord with a 2+ AS or a 4+ WS. Not bad. And a BSB with a 1+ AS. Both are pretty survivable and can really help out the entire army. Not too bad.

Empire
* Warrior Priest: Heavy Armor, Shield, Sword of Might, Barded Warhorse (125)
* Warrior Priest: Armor of Meteoric Iron, Great Weapon (119)
* Warrior Priest: Heavy Armor, Shield, Von Horstman's Speculum (121)
* lvl 2 Mage: Wizard Staff, Ring of Volans (130)
Total: 500 points

The potential to use all 4 PD on one big spell should be nice, and backing up that is 3-4 bound spells. And against the enemy, they generate 4 DD plus whatever the army generates.

So two warrior priests for two big blocks of infantry (hatred should be nice with the step-forward rule) and one mounted warrior priest to go with some inner circle knights. Sure, there is no lord level character in there, but if my opponent takes one of those then hopefully with VHS I can still stand a chance.

---------------------

So yeah, overall I really like the limit. Even maxing out on my points cost I can still get in most of the goodies that I am used to, while I am forced to spend more on the actual army. Looking forward to 8th edition!

TrojanWolf
02-05-2010, 23:33
My Clan Moulder army won't have to change at all for 2,250pt games. Especially since Throt makes my Rat Ogres core!

Characters = 521pts
Throt the Unclean
Chieftain with gw, shield, bsb with Storm Banner
Assassin with warpstone stars

25% of 2,250pts is 562.5pts. Hooray!

Granted, anything less and I'll need to drop 21 points somewhere. Anything more will just be a bonus.

Solar_Eclipse
03-05-2010, 00:05
mostly ill just take a pair of Thanes and a Runesmith, Lords are cool, but Thanes are almost as nasty and if i can get more blocks/warmachines/shooting units onto the table then i should have a better chance.

Kayosiv
03-05-2010, 00:43
I don't see how stopping someone from taking both a slann and an EOTG in a 2k point game is so much a nerf for lizardman as much as it is a power check.

Because taking a lvl 2 skink priest on an engine and giving him a ward save for basic protection (30 points) puts him at. 420 points. I suppose you could only make him level 1, but then you end up with 4 magic dice to cast 1 spell (although this might be changing depending on how much shifts in 8th) which wastes his potential as well.

A completely naked Scar Veteran is 85 points. So unless you want a leadership 6 general, you can't protect the engine (or at least the priest that makes the thing work).

It's just terribly restrictive and makes the engine just about useless because it just plain isn't as good as a dragon but it is essentially your entire hero count if used. Skink chiefs have no use whatsoever anymore because their only real use before was to be on a stegadon, but you can't really afford to do that now.

fantasypisces
03-05-2010, 01:08
If the 3000 rumor is correct then I would have a Grey Seer/Warlord, lvl2PlaguePriest on a Plague Furnace, and a Chieften BSB.

Otherwise it would probably be some Plague-Priests and Warlock Engineers, maybe with a BSB.

I really like my Ld7 though, but skaven have the advantage of some cheap heroes.

Corbu
03-05-2010, 02:40
The percentage gap doesn't really change what I take at higher levels. The main change is that it discourages me from taking a runelord with anvil and a dwarf lord, (typical points cost would be 735, 15pts less than max at 3k games). Instead I'd focus on one lord and round out with heroes.

At 3k points I'd run a dwarf lord on shield bearers with great weapon and armor buffs, Thane BSB, and a runesmith with a dispel scroll, and rune of stone.

Or

Runelord with anvil, Thane BSB and Thane with great weapon and armor buffs.

8th ed will determine how important runesmiths/runelords are in regards to magic mitigation.

Zujara
03-05-2010, 04:24
For 3000:

Savage Orc Warboss, Akrit Axe, Amulet of Protectyness, Bigged's Kickin' Boots

Goblin Warboss in Chariot, Best Basha, Tricksy Trinket, Shield and Light Armour

Black Orc Big Boss on Boar, BSB, Mork's Spirit Totem, Heavy Armour

Goblin Shaman in Chariot, 2 Dispel Scrolls

Comes to 719/750

Memnos
05-05-2010, 08:40
Admittedly: Once you tool up a character, regular troops can't kill him directly.

Instead, they'd take all 18 attacks and destroy the Juggernaut riders themselves.

Hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s, only one save on a 5+ means about 3 wounds to the Juggernauts. Add in a rank, a standard and outnumber and the Juggernauts will start to crumble.

Or, since they're using almost half their character allotment, you can throw a Bruiser at him for far less than he's costing.


Even Khorne heralds on juggernauts?

18 S4 ap attacks... that's 0,5 wounds isn't it? 5+ to hit, 4+ to wound and 2+ save with jugger and armour.

For gnoblars it's... Idk, but should be around 200 gnoblars needed to kill a Khorne jugger herald with armour. 5+ to hit, 6+ to wound and 0+ save.

Heralds of Slaanesh and tzeentch die like always and heralds of nurgle die a bit easier.

OT:
My DE will propably be a hero mage and a few masters with great weapons.

meanmachine
05-05-2010, 10:10
i play mono tzeentch daemons, in 2000 point games i will be taking

blue scribes 81 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
501 points i hope no one complains that i am 1 point over

each herald will be in a 20 man unit of horrors

i think they way for daemons will be to take cheap naked heralds just so they can boost your core units and do a bit of damage on the way,
herald quantity will be better than herald quality

khorne, nurgle and slaanesh heralds are pretty good in combat just as they are, so taking 3 basic nugrle heralds to give 3 20 man plaguebearer units regen sounds better than taking 2 upgraded ones giving 2 units regen.

i am excited about the 8 lores being changed, since my tzeentch heralds can choose any lore and know all 6 spells

if the rumours are true that all power dice are put into a single pool and thee wizard can attempt to cast every spell he knows once each this will be really effective, i will have the power of 3 different lores and which ever lore is required at the time is where most of my power dice will be used that round

Memnos
05-05-2010, 10:19
My Clan Moulder army won't have to change at all for 2,250pt games. Especially since Throt makes my Rat Ogres core!

Characters = 521pts
Throt the Unclean
Chieftain with gw, shield, bsb with Storm Banner
Assassin with warpstone stars

25% of 2,250pts is 562.5pts. Hooray!

Granted, anything less and I'll need to drop 21 points somewhere. Anything more will just be a bonus.

Rat Ogres as Core? That would be a FANTASTIC army to paint and see! And it could take objectives, though with Frenzy it might be tough to keep them on it. We'll see what the new rules are.

phoenixlaw
05-05-2010, 10:27
I'm not too afraid of the DoC list in 8th. With a single save and 2 ranks attacking, Heralds will die quickly.

Lessee... 6 ogres that can attack him. No champions, so no challenges... 18 s4 ap attacks? I should be able to kill him for exactly 10 points more than the cost of buying him. He's got 2 wounds. Big deal. Heck, with the new step up rule he even has to be concerned about my Gnoblar Horde units just because of sheer numbers of attacks coming back.

vs Khorne Herald

18 attacks - hitting on 5's

= 6 hits

wounding on 4's

= 3 wounds

saving on 2's

= 0.39 wounds on average.

he hits with his hatred and does 2.3 wounds back
Jugger does another 1.16 wounds

total 3.46

phoenixlaw
05-05-2010, 10:30
I think you'll still see plenty of Thirsters.

the percentage rumour I've heard is a little different to the one on here.
Not sure which is correct.

Desert Rain
05-05-2010, 10:32
the percentage rumour I've heard is a little different to the one on here.
Not sure which is correct.
According to the round-up thread the percentages are 25/25+/50/25.

Memnos
05-05-2010, 10:37
I think you'll still see plenty of Thirsters.

the percentage rumour I've heard is a little different to the one on here.
Not sure which is correct.

You missed a later post.

If the Herald on Jugger is tooled up with a 0+ save, just attack the Juggers around him:

18 attacks.

9 hits.

4.5 wounds.

1.5 saves.

3 wounds back, +1 for rank, +1 for standard, +1 for outnumber.

If he's on his own, there are a million other ways of taking him out, plus you're stubborn and it will take him 6 fighting rounds(3 whole turns) to eliminate all the Ogres.

Not a problem.

inq.serge
05-05-2010, 10:43
1 Herald on jugger + 1 hellcannon = 1 dead herald on 1 dead jugger.

phoenixlaw
05-05-2010, 10:50
According to the round-up thread the percentages are 25/25+/50/25.

Yeah, I'd heard something a little different. close to that, but with an important change.

Kayosiv
05-05-2010, 12:07
I sure hope it's X/25+/50/25

logan054
05-05-2010, 12:34
i play mono tzeentch daemons, in 2000 point games i will be taking

blue scribes 81 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
501 points i hope no one complains that i am 1 point over

Well i certainly wouldnt be to happy, its kinda like me saying (with 7th) hope you dont mind but i took one less minium core unit


khorne, nurgle and slaanesh heralds are pretty good in combat just as they are, so taking 3 basic nugrle heralds to give 3 20 man plaguebearer units regen sounds better than taking 2 upgraded ones giving 2 units regen.

Thankfully plague bearers will only get either a wardsave or regen so that isnt half the pain it used to be to kill, also i saw mentioned something about challenge rules being changed, if this will allow me to take down some nurgle heralds alot more easily im going to be very happy. Still daemons are going to be a very powerful army but i think its really going to depend what the standard battle size will be.


I know what i will be using, two exalted, one on a jugger (with Aether sword) and one with SoM and E shield

mdauben
05-05-2010, 14:19
501 points i hope no one complains that i am 1 point over
I suppose this is a whole 'nother topic, but I would complain, the same as I would if someone put down a 2001 point army in a 2000 point game. Chances are, I will be bringing 470 or 480 points in a 2000 point game, becuase I won't be able to fit anything into those last 20-30 points without going over. So, if I am going to stick to the limit, I expect my opponent to, also. The whole "couple points over" issue is one that we are not going to decide here, however. :shifty:

I admit, I'm still struggling to decide what I will bring in 8th ed. Even at the 2250 point limits I usually play (giving me 562 points to use) all my previous lists exceed this, often by quite a bit. Right now it looks like it would be easiest to adapt my WE lists to 8th but I'm still thinking what I can do with the LM or OK. :confused:

Malorian
05-05-2010, 14:22
I wouldn't allow people to be 1 point over the 25% no more than I would allow them to be 1 point over the game point limit.

inq.serge
05-05-2010, 15:40
"Anyone wanna play 3020 pts games?"

"Or at-least 2004 pts?"

Malorian
05-05-2010, 15:42
"Anyone wanna play 3020 pts games?"

"Or at-least 2004 pts?"

Go big or go home.

If you can't quite fit in that super character combo then bump up the game 500 or 1000 points rather than just enough to squeek it in.

Urgat
05-05-2010, 16:12
"Anyone wanna play 3020 pts games?"

"Or at-least 2004 pts?"

Actually, I play "silly pts" battles quite often (like 854pts battles) because I got a couple friends with limited armies, they take everything they can (respecting restrictions), tell me how much they got, and I make my list accordingly. Better than forcing them to play 500pts battles all the time, no? So...


Go big or go home.

If you can't quite fit in that super character combo then bump up the game 500 or 1000 points rather than just enough to squeek it in.

... obviously, I consider this very wrong >>

Malorian
05-05-2010, 16:32
It's one thing if your opponent is new and has limited models, it's another if they are 10 year vets and have 10,000 points worth of models but they just want to sneak in that powerful combo.

AlphaLegionMarine
05-05-2010, 21:10
Im pretty sure I will be taking a lvl 4 Dark Elf Supreme Sorceress with Blackstaff,Pendant and Pegasus for 400 pts. I might even throw in another level 1 Sorceress or drop the Pegasus based on the new flying rules and upgrade the second Sorceress to a level 2. Magic items might vary though based on the new magic rules. I might not need that 55 pt Blackstaff.

Kairob
06-05-2010, 15:33
If the percentages are gone:
Goblin Warboss
Goblin Big Boss BSB
Goblin Big Boss
Goblin Big Boss
Goblin Big Boss
Goblin Big Boss
Goblin Great Shaman Lv4
Goblin Shaman Lv2
Goblin Shaman Lv2

This leaves 120 points for magic items and enough characters to have one in each of my big blocks as a Champion replacement. :D

Shadowsinner
06-05-2010, 15:40
it was my understanding that percentages are 25/ 25+/ X/ 15

willowdark
06-05-2010, 15:42
Dark Elf Lvl4 on Peg with Focus Familiar and the Pendant. Then, depending on how magic works I'll either support her with a Lvl2 on steed with Tome of Furion and scroll, or support my troops with a CoB.

+1 Assassin, because the shouldn't count under they cap.

Gaargod
06-05-2010, 16:56
Check roundup. Latest thing from Avian is 25/25+/50/25. Which is fairly generous for special and rare, but not so much on characers.

Also, lizardmen will still be rather effective. Consider:

Slann with focus of mystery and focused rumination, BSB and cupped hands = 395. Still allows for a scar vet with light armour, shield and great weapon for 494 at 2k.

Magic is getting... more unpredictable... but as far as i understand it, taking one lv4 will be rather scary. Especially slann with their +1D6 (welcome to the wonderful world of average cast of11 on "1 dice").

Its less interesting, to be sure. Still effective though.

CaptainFaramir
07-05-2010, 01:06
Seer
Bell
Power Stone
Power Stone
Scroll

Simples

someone2040
07-05-2010, 01:12
Hmm... Dogs of War... It honestly depends on if 8th will kill off my Army, and what kind've magic items are in the book to be available.
Since 25% kills off Asarnil until bigger point games, most likely something like
Hireling Wizard Lord/Mercenary General (Depending on what useful magic items are for the General).
Captain on Pegasus
Hireling Wizard
Paymaster

GreyHam
07-05-2010, 02:09
Beastlord: Horn of the First Beast, Gnarled Hide, Ramhorn Helm, Sword of Might, HA, Shield - 249

Wargor BSB: Biting Blade, HA, Shield - 126

Bray-Shaman: Scroll x2 - 125

Total: 500 exactly

ooglatjama
07-05-2010, 02:20
One tomb king and one liche priest... I don't have points for anything else...

Darwin Esq.
07-05-2010, 03:37
I sure hope it's X/25+/50/25

Well, it's probably not going to be that, as X is not a number.

grumbaki
07-05-2010, 05:59
One tomb king and one liche priest... I don't have points for anything else...

Or a tomb prince and 3 liche priests. That could work too...

Heimagoblin
07-05-2010, 06:57
How are you fitting that in?

jthdotcom
07-05-2010, 07:22
According to the round-up thread the percentages are 25/25+/50/25.

But no one knows what is ACTUALLY in the book. The round up thread is still only rumours, so don't take it as fact just "because warseer said"

Desert Rain
07-05-2010, 08:27
But no one knows what is ACTUALLY in the book. The round up thread is still only rumours, so don't take it as fact just "because warseer said"
I know that. Those are the current rumours and thus it makes sense to discuss the topic of the thread based on them don't you think?
I don't think that anyone takes the rumours for facts just yet.

EndlessBug
07-05-2010, 08:44
blue scribes 81 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
herald of tzeentch with master of sorcery 140 points
501 points i hope no one complains that i am 1 point over


I would, you're playing daemons with a special character and going for magic spam.

Wicked Dwarf
07-05-2010, 09:09
I know that. Those are the current rumours and thus it makes sense to discuss the topic of the thread based on them don't you think?
I don't think that anyone takes the rumours for facts just yet.

Same here. I mean, the topic starter asked clearly enough what your character choice would be regarding to the RUMOURS. I can't stand the reactions like "it isn't meaningfull to think about that, they are just rumours".

So what... What is wrong about thinking and discussing what if? Some people need more imagination. (Although you would expect that people already have that, playing Fantasy...)

I was very afraid for the Chaos characters, as they are pretty expensive, but the same counts for Lizardmen I see now.
And about the X/25+/50/25, X is still possible. It would probably mean that there is another rule concerning the characters. So, 25 or X or maybe something totaly different. Just a few more months (or can we say weeks now?).:D