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Repentant Son
01-05-2010, 16:33
I was making a Space Wolf, and converting him to be a Rune Priest. I gave him a Grey Knight Glaive and a plasma gun. I cannot use this model due to WYSIWYG, but I made him anyways because he looked pretty awesome.

Do you guys think it's awesome, or a waste of money?

blackjack
01-05-2010, 16:38
Awsome. If the mini looks good I have no problems using his weapons as counts as. Even in my local tournaments it has never been a problem. Just be clear about how the mini is armed in advance. .

Prokrustes
01-05-2010, 16:39
Ermh...if you told me before battle what he is equipped with I wouldnt care if you used him...

Agnar the Howler
01-05-2010, 16:48
If people aren't letting you use it in friendly games, they're not worth playing. Whilst in tournemants it's understandable due to strict rules, in friendly games it's just stupid to not let someone use it. My Daemon Prince uses the wings from the possessed marines box, and not letting you use your model would be like saying my daemon prince still isn't allowed to fly because his wings wouldn't be able to support him.

That aside, it depends really. Are you enforcing a WYSIWYG rule on your army, or is your club doing it for you? If it's the former, you could let the rule of cool take effect and slide him in anyway, for the latter, it's probably a waste of money if your club is going to be that strict.

Repentant Son
01-05-2010, 16:52
If people aren't letting you use it in friendly games, they're not worth playing. Whilst in tournemants it's understandable due to strict rules, in friendly games it's just stupid to not let someone use it. My Daemon Prince uses the wings from the possessed marines box, and not letting you use your model would be like saying my daemon prince still isn't allowed to fly because his wings wouldn't be able to support him.

That aside, it depends really. Are you enforcing a WYSIWYG rule on your army, or is your club doing it for you? If it's the former, you could let the rule of cool take effect and slide him in anyway, for the latter, it's probably a waste of money if your club is going to be that strict.

It's the former. There's also the partial influence of that same rule of cool, only it's saying "this guy is too cool to be used in wargaming!"

Anyways, that's not the point of this thread/poll. The point of this thread poll is to get your opinions on this.

Urban Shaman Commando
01-05-2010, 16:53
Counts-as is cool as long as everyone know what each model is. That's my only guideline to this whole thing.

bigcheese76
01-05-2010, 16:59
Same answer as I usually give to these threads. Cool models add to the game, so if you want to make yours cooler but the weapons configuration is slightly out (or completely) let me know before the game and I am fine with it unless its stupidly different.

Bunnahabhain
01-05-2010, 17:10
Cool models for their own sake are always good.

I've got plenty that are at least somewhat illegal- my rough riders average 3 weapons each- but they look good.

Who knows, they may even be legal next time round...

Chem-Dog
01-05-2010, 17:11
Ermh...if you told me before battle what he is equipped with I wouldnt care if you used him...


QFT

WYSIWYG is only necessary when there is a potential for confusion (or misdirection), I certainly wouldn't mind if models carried details that have no bearing on their actual abilities if sufficiently warned beforehand, if a model were to use a Weapon that wasn't shown, it might be more of an issue.

I have a Chimera with twin assault cannons mounted on the turret, never had any complaints as I always let people know that it still counts as a Multilaser.

Egaeus
01-05-2010, 17:23
I was making a Space Wolf, and converting him to be a Rune Priest. I gave him a Grey Knight Glaive and a plasma gun. I cannot use this model due to WYSIWYG, but I made him anyways because he looked pretty awesome.

Do you guys think it's awesome, or a waste of money?

If it looks good I say go with it. WYSIWYG is there to make things run smoothly (and if you want to be strict about it a way for GW to make more money ;)) so as long as you are distinctive with the model then it should't be an issue.

The only thing I might suggest is to try to get as close as possible with equipment...don't have my Codex handy, so if a Rune Priest can't have a plasma gun perhaps he can count it as a plasma pistol...mainly so that when I look at the model and think "plasma" it's still somewhat appropriate.

Chiron
01-05-2010, 17:25
I have a Chimera with twin assault cannons mounted on the turret, never had any complaints as I always let people know that it still counts as a Multilaser.

I have one with a Lascannon in a Russ turret, it looks ace

Firmlog
01-05-2010, 18:49
In second edition WYSIWYG was all important, I can't for the life of me figure out why it is important now; and as long as you are a good/fun player you opponents shouldn't begrudge you too much having weapons they aren't allowed to have.

heck, orcs come with skillsaw weapons for powerfists in some kits.

Of course, I understand the difference of comparing a naval to an orange, but different weapons are different.

I hope I wouldn't make anyone mad if I pulled out my RT marine army with shuriken catapults.

dragonet111
01-05-2010, 19:22
Go for it as long as I know what he is wearing I don't care.:D

Project2501
01-05-2010, 19:37
As I've said way too man times now, I only seriously apply the WYSIWYG rule to the army list (that it is codex legal and properly costed) and only to models in-so-far as that they are not blatantly modelled for advantage ("Dude this this scrathbuilt land speeder without a base sized 'thing' is my land raider...).

However, as this implies, I also always provide my army list to my opponent and expect the same in return.

So, as I've read an an example of on warseer in the past, as long as your models aren't wing wrapped (as wings/banners cannot be used for LOS) with 6" tall googly eyes (for better LOS), who cares?

Culgore
01-05-2010, 19:51
I dunno that seems to be an easy one to understand. Plasma pistol, and power/force weapon. You just have a big plasma pistol, I don't think that you are breaking WYSIWYG too badly.

wazatdingder
01-05-2010, 20:22
The only time I get mad about anything not being WYSIWYG is when I play someone who proxies everything. "No, that PF is a MG and the PG is a Flamer." Models need to at least roughly appear to look like what they are. As far as I know no librarians can get rid of force weapons, so its not really an issue, and you shouldn't play with anyone who makes it one.

Charistoph
01-05-2010, 20:50
Nemesis Force Weapons (aka Grey Knight Glaive) are Force Weapons for those whose will is strong enough. So that's not even an issue.

The only issue is if you were trying to pass him off as with a hand flamer or in Terminator armor. A Plasma gun can easily pass as a very large plasma pistol. Even a Bolt Pistol is questionable, but it could just be a fancy bolt pistol designed to give the impression of a plasma gun. Or could it just be an illusions of a plasma gun...

Devil Tree
01-05-2010, 21:21
Cool conversions are fine, a GK glaive wouldn't look much different than a force weapon anyways.

I only have an issue when it turns out that their plain power armor is actually terminator armor and that power sword is really a thunder hammer/power fist/whatever and they also have Mark of Whoever despite not being painted the right color. I used to have an opponent that would do it all the time and it's annoying as hell.

Chiron
01-05-2010, 21:46
I'm curious, I'm playing with Valhallans at the moment and give all my sergeants Power Swords, would people have a problem with the fact they are armed with Chainswords (I'm not chopping up 10+ metal models to make it WYSIWIG)

Tekomandor
01-05-2010, 23:23
Paint em glowy - they'l be power-chainswords

chromedog
01-05-2010, 23:32
I've made a stack of models over the years because they "looked cool".

Who says they were for gaming with. Sometimes you just have to "what if?" for the hell of it. Some of my cooler models I've never gamed with.

Fredox
01-05-2010, 23:32
I've got a chaplain with twin thunder hammers raised over his head and a jump pack so you wouldn't have any problems from me. I can also field models that are older than most of the people in my local GW and have been asked what they are. Always fun to tell somebody the model your using was made before they were born and the weapon combination was legal when it was made.

Leth Shyish'phak
02-05-2010, 00:25
I wouldn't have any problem with that, my favourite Chaos Lord model has a plasma pistol and thunder hammer, which I count as a daemon weapon or power weapon. No one has ever had a problem with it.


... and they also have Mark of Whoever despite not being painted the right color...

I assume that you mean Chaos Marks? I've never painted my marked units in the "correct" colours for their mark, I don't see why they should be restricted to particular colours. Especially Chaos Marines, who are more likely to retain their Chapter/Warband/Legion colours.

MajorWesJanson
02-05-2010, 02:10
I'm curious, I'm playing with Valhallans at the moment and give all my sergeants Power Swords, would people have a problem with the fact they are armed with Chainswords (I'm not chopping up 10+ metal models to make it WYSIWIG)

Are they all power swords, or some chainswords and some power weapons?
If the first, then sure, no problem. You could also paint a glow, and just say they have power fields like power swrods.

IcedAnimals
02-05-2010, 06:48
WYSIWYG is a tricky little thing. I could very well replace every single lasgun in a guard army with a crossbow and it would be WYSIWYG, and tourny legal.

And special characters are even more unique. There are MANY characters in the game that do not have their special wargear modeled on them. Its once you start saying "this weapon and this weapon even though they look the same are completely different" that you get into trouble

Devil Tree
02-05-2010, 07:03
It's not so much an issue of everything being perfectly by the book. If you want to convert your Berserkers and paint them purple then that's fine. The only stipulation I have is that I can tell what they are by looking at them and that they have the same war gear that the models do. Doing something as simple painting a chain swords in bright colors (power swords) or giving them huge improbable weapons (power fists) is good enough for me.

The main issue I have is when I find out half way through the game that the unassuming model(s) with a bolt pistol and chain sword is actually something completely different.

Shamutanti
02-05-2010, 08:39
I went to a tournament where my 3 tactical squads consisted of billions of power fist/power fist wielding men, all the master of the chapter as normal marines, cortez as a sarge, etc.

It just takes 2 minutes at the start of the game to smile at your opponent and go 'it's okay, they're just close combat weapons. Relax.'

yabbadabba
02-05-2010, 08:49
wow- 14 people actually support not wasting the money - how is this a waste of money?

Giving a model weapons they cannot use makes WYSIWYG even easier - your Rune priest cannot have a nemesis force weapon and a plasma gun, so it must represent something else.
I agree with the consistentcy, but only insomuch as with paint jobs and minor conversions. If you love Nemesis Force Weapon bits and want to use them in a variety of roles, just make sure there is some difference in painting and conversion, and that difference is consistent in identical uses.

I have a Catachan Commander with a RT Nemesis Force Weapon. Looks ace :)

The Marshel
02-05-2010, 08:49
my best mate plays games using crisis battle suits that are drowning in weapons. I couldn't care less so long as he points out which ones have twin linked missile pods and which ons have twin linked plasma rifles.

This hobby cost to much to seriously consider stopping people from doing what they want with their miniatures

Sorros
02-05-2010, 13:44
I ignore WYSIWYG for the most part, unless its blatant "yeah, so THIS flamer is a melta gun, but THIS flamer is a plasma gun". Next turn they switch. Also, size of models relative to what they're trying to be has to be about right. Not playing a wraithlord thats the size of a guardsman.

Cool models=Cool, its a game. The point is to be creative and have fun. If you're going to get on someone's case for not modelling on a pistol or something, then they're probably jerks anyway. If it's a tourney, then get on their case for not having grenades or something.

DinoDoc
02-05-2010, 13:51
I was making a Space Wolf, and converting him to be a Rune Priest. I gave him a Grey Knight Glaive and a plasma gun. I cannot use this model due to WYSIWYG, but I made him anyways because he looked pretty awesome.Sounds like a Rune Priest armed with a snazzy Runic Weapon and Plasma Pistol to me.

Repentant Son
02-05-2010, 16:03
Seeing the responses this thread has generated I feel compelled to ask another question - would you create fluff and special rules for said models?

It's important to note that the special rules would have to be balanced by a fair point cost.

ghostline
02-05-2010, 16:03
my pet peeve is with marks of chaos.

It's ok if you go "everyone has mark of nurgle" then the next game go "everyone has mark of khorne". Even though it's kind of annoying(lets you get away with having 4 armys for the price of 1) i understand people want to test things out or don't have the money/time to invest.

But when everyone is painted blood red, and some regiments are mark of khorne, while another is mark of nurgle, and the lord with gigantic axe that is covered in blood and skulls? yeah he's got the mark of Tzeentch....

Egaeus
02-05-2010, 17:51
Seeing the responses this thread has generated I feel compelled to ask another question - would you create fluff and special rules for said models?

It's important to note that the special rules would have to be balanced by a fair point cost.

I would say fluff is fine...go nuts on background if you want.

As for special rules this would be a bit trickier. I would suggest that it depends heavily on the venue where you play. If you get together with friends or an otherwise regular group who knows each other and what to expect it would probably be a bit easier to get the OK for trying out some custom characters and special rules. If you play primarily pick-up games at the FLGS with acquaintances or strangers then it's probably going to be a bit harder to get the OK for something "outside the box".

Fundamentally the aspect of "fair point cost" can get to be a problem. If you just want to add a USR or borrow a rule from somewhere else then it might be easier to choose an appropriate point cost than if it's something you created yourself. This is where having a group of regulars might help you tweak costs if necessary as you can get roughly similar games for testing.

Lord Damocles
02-05-2010, 18:00
I'd make a model simply to look cool, but I probably wouldn't use it in a game.

I'm generally pretty strict when it comes to WYSIWYG in my armies.

salvindogath
02-05-2010, 18:50
For the original question, I say go for it, whatever looks awesome! I've got a few of my marines that have shields on the model but never have them, a commission i'm doing has a khorne berzerker champion with a mutated arm, counts as a power weapon. So long as people know there shouldn't be any problems. And if you want a bit of a giggle, take a look at the official GW obliterator models, they have an assault cannon and boltgun on one of their arms but they can't use either weapon!!

Havock
02-05-2010, 18:52
I'm curious, I'm playing with Valhallans at the moment and give all my sergeants Power Swords, would people have a problem with the fact they are armed with Chainswords (I'm not chopping up 10+ metal models to make it WYSIWIG)

Not really, just try and avoid confusion by making sure there are no non-powersword-chainswords around. Tell it before the game and nobody should ever mind.

Dwane Diblie
02-05-2010, 19:37
Converted model is fine like everyone else says.

On using home rules for him, go for it as long as your opponent knows and is fine with it. I have an Autarch running around with Maugan Ra's Maugetar and warp Jump Generaor. I also have a Farseer on the back of a Viper. Neather can be used in a tornament but as I do not play them I rarly get refused their use. Ok I admit the Farseer ocasionaly gets refused, but not by those I play with most regulary. I also have an Avatar with an Axe, but no special rules for him, just coolness factor.

carlisimo
02-05-2010, 19:38
If you have too many counts-as figures for your opponent to keep track of, then it's a genuine problem. It's also a problem if that unit can legally have that combination of weapons.

Some posters in here seem to think it's up to the opponents to be friendly and forgiving, without acknowledging that you should show some courtesy to your opponents by keeping things easy for them to understand. A lot of them won't know your codex all that well.

Overlord Krycis
02-05-2010, 20:35
my pet peeve is with marks of chaos.
...
But when everyone is painted blood red, and some regiments are mark of khorne, while another is mark of nurgle, and the lord with gigantic axe that is covered in blood and skulls? yeah he's got the mark of Tzeentch....

Hate to point this out to yet again...but the COLOUR of the army means jack squat.
The MARKS need to be modeled/painted onto the models (in the case of icons they need to be of the appropriate type or a representation thereof).
This is even outlined in the codex as being required.

OT: as long as I know what the model is actually equipped with in your army list he could have a blow up rubber hammer and a super-soaker 5000 as weapons...it wouldn't make any difference to me.

Charistoph
02-05-2010, 21:34
Giving a model weapons they cannot use makes WYSIWYG even easier - your Rune priest cannot have a nemesis force weapon and a plasma gun, so it must represent something else.

As I said before, a Nemesis Force Weapon IS a regular Force Weapon, if the mind wielding it is powerful enough. Also, what DOES a Force Weapon look like? There is fluff that has them mostly looking like staves, but some look like swords, maces, spears, and axes. It wouldn't surprise me if one just happened to look very similar to a Grey Knight's favored weapon. Heck, it could be a gift from the Grey Knights to the Rune Priest, and all he can do is get it to be a Force Weapon and none of the other bonuses they normally can get.