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sorberec
01-05-2010, 17:59
Hi guys,

Just had a battle today and the question of which models out of a spear unit can strike back came up.

The situation was this. My block of High Elf Spearmen charged my opponent's Templar Grand Master who had the ASF sword. The TGM killed 2 spearmen.

As HE spears fight in two ranks on the charge I went to take 4 attacks back but my opponent argued that as the 2 in the second rank were stepping up they couldn't attack. My counter to that was that models don't actually step up until the end of the phase as part of redressing the ranks but this went on for around 10 minutes (much to the bemusement of the his flatmate and sister).

In the end we just played 2 attacks although once combat was resolved i rolled the additional dice just to see what would have happened.

So, have I been playing spears wrong all this time? Since I play HE I'm normally in the position where my spears are striking first so this hasn't affected my attacks much but when I've played against my friend Nick and have charged his Orc or Saurus spear blocks I've always played it that if I don't wipe out 2 ranks worth of models then any model not dead in the first two ranks gets to hit me back.

To be honest I'm kind of hoping I'm wrong as it makes Saurus spear blocks a lot less scary although at the same time it makes it even less likely that I'd want to field spears in future (unless they work differently in 8th edition)

Agnar the Howler
01-05-2010, 19:20
He was BSing to save his Grand Master, you must kill every single fighting model to stop attacks, it's not enough to just kill the guy in front. So you would've got your full 4 retaliatory attacks.

Zaustus
01-05-2010, 19:56
Yup, your opponent was either mistaken or cheating. There's no "stepping up" involved. The spearelves in the second rank can fight from where they are, so in your picture option A is correct and you should have gotten 4 attacks back.

Lyynark
01-05-2010, 20:48
He was BSing to save his Grand Master.


While he was playing incorrectly I'd very much like to see what 4 basic spear elf attacks has any chance of denting a grand master.

sorberec
01-05-2010, 21:46
While he was playing incorrectly I'd very much like to see what 4 basic spear elf attacks has any chance of denting a grand master.

Well with the 2 attacks I rolled then and there and the 2 I rolled afterwards just to see it did force him to make 2 armour saves.

I think it's the same with anything that if you can put enough attacks into it, sooner or later it'll fail its saving rolls

Taedae
01-05-2010, 22:43
looks like you got cheated or he doesnt know the rules. you should have gotten the extra rank attacks. also, if your spearmen have a higher init, then they strike first over the GM. (dont know the init of the GM)

Agnar the Howler
01-05-2010, 22:52
While he was playing incorrectly I'd very much like to see what 4 basic spear elf attacks has any chance of denting a grand master.

I don't see what their power has to do with the issue of cheating, nor do I see why it matters that spear attacks don't tend to do much damage from HE.

sorberec
01-05-2010, 22:53
also, if your spearmen have a higher init, then they strike first over the GM. (dont know the init of the GM)

The TGM had the ASF sword and as he's got higher initiative than bog standard elves he got to strike first (was a bit annoyed that I couldn't get my BSB into base contact as he'd have been striking first due to higher I).

Lyynark
01-05-2010, 22:55
I don't see what their power has to do with the issue of cheating, nor do I see why it matters that spear attacks don't tend to do much damage from HE.

Merely an observation based on your "assumption" that his opponent wanted to "save" his grand master from pointy death by puny elves.

No need to get cranky.


I think it's the same with anything that if you can put enough attacks into it, sooner or later it'll fail its saving rolls

True enough, but you're going to need more than 4 attacks. We've all seen flukes when it comes to dice rolls, but I prefer to trust statistics.

Agnar the Howler
01-05-2010, 23:09
Merely an observation based on your "assumption" that his opponent wanted to "save" his grand master from pointy death by puny elves.

No need to get cranky.

There was also no need to comment on a perfectly fine answer to a question, nor was there a need to respond to me getting 'cranky' or even assume that I made an assumption that his TGM needed saving, it was mearly a way of giving my answer.

Lyynark
01-05-2010, 23:17
Edit: Not worth it.

As a finality, have your friend read the rules, preferably out loud.

Agnar the Howler
01-05-2010, 23:26
Edit: Not worth it.

As a finality, have your friend read the rules, preferably out loud.

No! It is worth it! Dammit I haven't had my daily trivial argument yet and i'm getting withdrawal symptoms! Argue!





...Please? :cries:

Lyynark
01-05-2010, 23:28
Indulge you when I can watch you squirm as you go cold turkey, surely you jest? ;)

Zetari
04-05-2010, 19:15
doest HE figth in 3 ranks with spears? ;O

sorberec
04-05-2010, 19:22
doest HE figth in 3 ranks with spears? ;O

If charged or in the second round of combat, yes. Didn't apply here as a) I was charging and b) after taking a lot of pain from magic and shooting I only had the 3 models in the second rank

Malorian
04-05-2010, 20:00
No! It is worth it! Dammit I haven't had my daily trivial argument yet and i'm getting withdrawal symptoms! Argue!





...Please? :cries:

I disagree!

(You're welcome... ;))