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View Full Version : Dark Elves: Manbane vs. t6+



Jerrus
01-05-2010, 21:21
How does Manbane work vs. targets with t6 or more?

Does it give the Assassin/Hag strength 6, or does it simply not work as it cannot raise the strength above the targets toughness?

drpieceofme
01-05-2010, 21:35
It will bring your attacks to str 6.

You can go further with rending stars which will use the manbane effect first (str 6) then adds the +1 from the stars.

Necromancy Black
02-05-2010, 05:16
Manbane will bring your Str up to 6, no higher. So against T6 it will be 6.

As stated above, Rendering Stars are +1 to your Str, so with manbane you can get them to go up to Str7.

Jerrus
02-05-2010, 19:50
Manbane X points
A model with a weapon coated with Manbane always counts their Strength as one higher than their target's Toughness, unless their Strength would normally be more than this, up to a maximum of Strength 6. This means that they always wound opponents on a roll of 3+. This modified Strength is used to calculate armour save modifiers.


I have been told that since it only increases your strength to one higher than your targets toughness, and cannot increase it to 7+, it doesn't work against targets with toughness 6+.

Necromancy Black
03-05-2010, 00:48
It increases your Str up to one higher (let's say....to Str 7) but then your capped and brought back down to Str 6.

The rule is saying you can't increase your Str above 6 with manbane, not that it doesn't work against anything higher then toughness 5.

TheDarkDaff
03-05-2010, 04:14
Necromancy Black is correct although he is definately against the Authors intent. I personally would have prefered if it was ruled to change the strength of your hit to 1 higher than the models toughness unless you would normally be stronger so it would work with the Assassins handbow.

As it stands it make the Assassins strength 1 higher than the opponents Toughness up to a maximum of 6 unless the Assassin is already stronger. This is combined with the Rending Stars (User strength+1) to make Strength 7 attacks against models with T5 or higher.

Zaustus
03-05-2010, 04:53
Necromancy Black is correct although he is definately against the Authors intent.

How do you figure that? The FAQ is clear on how it works with Rending Stars, so I'm not sure where you're getting this statement.

To the OP: Against T5 or higher, Manbane will make your Assassin S6 (S7 if shooting with Rending Stars). Anyone telling you otherwise is wrong.

WLBjork
03-05-2010, 06:46
When I look at what we have now compared to when Gav (and Andy C for that matter) was around, I find myself pining for the days when things were far more organised, and seemed more balanced as a result.

As for the FAQ, who best knows the authors intent - the author, or some random guy?

Kalandros
03-05-2010, 07:02
Gav clearly said it wasn't supposed to be played this way - he never intended S7 Chainsaw-stars being thrown around.

phoenixguard09
03-05-2010, 09:32
While Gav Thorpe may not have made some great decisions and such, lighten up guys. I mean he is only human. People make mistakes. His FAQ was an honest attempt to rectify his mistake. It doesn't mean that he needs to be repetitively labeled a fool.

Necromancy Black
03-05-2010, 11:08
I don't say his totally his fault, though he should have wored the rule better. The way GW has to conduct their development without public testing (they are, after all, a business) greatly restricts feedback on things like this.

Arnizipal
03-05-2010, 12:38
Can we drop the namecalling here please?

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++

willowdark
03-05-2010, 14:03
Gav didn't personally write the FAQ. He didn't contradict himself, he just wasn't consulted.

His comment about Rendingbane was on his personal blog. He had already left GW by that point.

Gaargod
03-05-2010, 20:30
What willowdark said. Look on Gav's own website - it still has his FAQ up on it. Then, afterwards, GW released their own, which directly contradicts. GW is official one, therefore over rules..

One of the few cases where we know for sure its RaI vs RaW.

TheDarkDaff
03-05-2010, 23:43
Just to get a few things straight here. I know what Gav T meant because he released his own FAQ on his mechanical hamster blog which roughly amounted to "don't be silly, manbane is capped at S6". GW then released their own FAQ which allows it. The "mistake" he made was referencing the models strength rather than the strength of the hit in the manbane rules which allows for the S7 Stars.

I still think Gav T is one of the best people GW have had work for them (along with Andy "Mr Chaos" Chambers and Toumos{SP?}). The only glaring mistake he made was the last editions DE book which was still incredibly internally balanced but didn't power creep like so many other books of the time. His efforts are still light years ahead of anything i have seen from Matt Ward or Alessio.

willowdark
04-05-2010, 00:16
You're right. Dispite what he meant, the rules he wrote combined for st7 because of the way he wrote them.

But, all in all, I think the DE book should be the standard for all Warhammer Armies. Erring on the side of cheap and good makes the game better. But he at least restrained from spoiling the book with huge Psychology advantages like VC and Daemons. And though magic is good in the book, it's nowhere near as powerful as the other two.

And yes, I'm aware that he wrote the VC book as well. But I think he got the DE book right.

L1qw1d
04-05-2010, 04:45
Okie people- time to get a die and start rolling

nobsb
04-05-2010, 05:54
Whoever thinks the DE book is not broken is a DE player lol. If only the throwing star of death was the problem with that book I would be happy. I maybe upset because my Hellcannon gets killed by the throwing stars of doom, (it's T6 and 5W). The double skirmishing hydra list is problematic. Or the unkillable dreadlord with the 1+ armor save and reverse ward save. The DE unit with greatweapons, ASF, and eternal hatred. The ring of no magic for you is also fun. So, no the DE army book is one of the reasons that 8th Ed. needs to come out to fix the out of control army books. Demons, DE, Lizards, and VC. I feel for the poor beastman players. There book is terrible by comparision with all the new books that came out before them.

TheDarkDaff
04-05-2010, 06:23
Whoever thinks the DE book is not broken is a DE player lol. If only the throwing star of death was the problem with that book I would be happy.I am a Dark Elf Player (have been my main army since '96 along with Chaos which i started in '98). There are problems with every book but i do have to admit that the Druchii work very well together in their current incarnation.


I maybe upset because my Hellcannon gets killed by the throwing stars of doom, (it's T6 and 5W). So a 151 point model takes on average 3 turns to kill your Hellcannon and you do nothing about it?


The double skirmishing hydra list is problematic. This is more an issue with the main rules turning the Hydra with Handlers into a skirmisher, which hopefully 8th Ed will change.


Or the unkillable dreadlord with the 1+ armor save and reverse ward save. Law of Gold, Creeping Death, Shades of Death, The Beast Cowers (if mounted), Steal Soul and Soul Stealer are all great spells for killing him or stopping him. Or you could try destroying his unit and running him down.


The DE unit with greatweapons, ASF, and eternal hatred. No such unit exists. Black Guard have Halberds (2 S4 attacks) and Eternal Hatred while Executioners have Great Weapons (1 S6 killing blow attack) and the only way either can get ASF is the Banner of Hag Graef (which Execs need a Death Hag BSB to do). To really get them going you should also have another Daeth Hag on Cauldron of Blood behind them (which adds another 200 points) and makes an entirely offensive character unable to charge.


The ring of no magic for you is also fun.It is actually when you start seeing opponents bring fighty characters instead of a Lvl4 and 2 Lvl2's with as many bound spells as you can shake a red whipping stick at.


So, no the DE army book is one of the reasons that 8th Ed. needs to come out to fix the out of control army books. Demons, DE, Lizards, and VC. I feel for the poor beastman players. There book is terrible by comparision with all the new books that came out before them.From what some of the fairly reliable rumour mongers are saying, the Beastman Armybook was written with an eye towards 8th Ed. And out of all the books you have mentioned only the Daemons are truely broken, the others are undoubtly strong if you play them in a certain style with certain choices. The Daemons seem to do well regardless of what you pick.

Arnizipal
04-05-2010, 11:36
The main question has been answered and this thread is taking a deep dive off topic, so I'm locking it.

Arnizipal,

++ The Warseer Moderation Team ++