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TheMaster
03-05-2010, 08:08
Count Mannfred 600 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Staff of Damnation

Konrad 145 points

Vampire 175 points
Avatar of Death
Walachs Bloody Hauberk

Zombie Horde 20 92 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 20 180 points
with command

Crypt Ghouls 10 88 points
Crypt Ghast

Direwolves 10 90 points
Doom wolf

Corpse Cart 100 points

Grave Guard 10 150 points

Varghulf 175 points

Black Coach 200 points

Total 1995




Suggestions are welcome. This is just a prelimanary list.

Brady
03-05-2010, 17:50
I have found hounds usually work better split into two units of fives. That way the opponent has to use two units to kill them all instead of one. (potentially)

RealMikeBob
03-05-2010, 20:53
Drop the dire wolves down to 7 and use them to trap characters on a monster for a turn so that you can get something in to deal with them properly.

Drop the standard on the zombies. You've more than doubled the VPs they give when they die (which they will).

Drop Konrad. Frenzied vampires in M4 units are not funny. Use the points left to take some other character. Another vamp, a Wight King BSB or 2 necromancers will all be more useful I've found.

Whats the vamp got for AoD? And the corpse cart?

TheMaster
04-05-2010, 04:48
Updated list

Count Mannfred 600 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Staff of Damnation

Wright King 200 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 150 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Zombie Horde 20 84 points
with musician

Skeleton Warriors 20 180 points
with command

Crypt Ghouls 10 88 points
Crypt Ghast

Direwolves 7 80 points

Corpse Cart 100 points

Grave Guard 10 150 points

Varghulf 175 points

Black Coach 200 points

Total 2003

Are Corpse Carts worth it or should I drop it and add some Spirit Hosts or fell bats?

~PrometheuS~
04-05-2010, 13:16
Updated list

Count Mannfred 600 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Staff of Damnation

Wright King 200 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 150 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Zombie Horde 20 84 points
with musician

Skeleton Warriors 20 180 points
with command

Crypt Ghouls 10 88 points
Crypt Ghast

Direwolves 7 80 points

Corpse Cart 100 points

Grave Guard 10 150 points

Varghulf 175 points

Black Coach 200 points

Total 2003

Are Corpse Carts worth it or should I drop it and add some Spirit Hosts or fell bats?

NO

You want to take manfred right, well use only skellies, he is the best caster a VC army can get, and comes with LotD, he cant summon ghouls........ and no other vampire can

Fell bats are better then wolves, and i am pretty sure, mannfred comes with summon creatures, they recieve d6 wounds back (not 100 percent) wolves count as cav and only get 1

Black coach is the worst rare choice out of them all, lol wraiths much better, blood knights are great too, but are prone to get shot to pieces

10 grave gaurd = fail

When dont need zombies, we can summon a **** load of them, points better spent

Mullitron
04-05-2010, 14:48
I agree with promethues, most vampire players take either skeletons or ghouls then give their vampires the relevent power. However with mannfred having Lotd and sum creatures your decision is kind of already made for you. Go all skeletons for your blocks of basic infantry. I would drop the coach and cart, buff up the unit of graveguard, add another unit of wolves some bats and give mannfred the book instead of the staff of damnation. Personaly i would also swap the bsb for another vampire to keep the army moving and generate more powerdice to draw out your opponents dispel dice and scrolls.

TheMaster
05-05-2010, 00:20
K thanks for your advice. I really like the black coach model though. Also Mannfred can summon skeles, wolves, bat swarms and fell bats beyond their starting size

TheMaster
05-05-2010, 00:22
So I should drop the Cart, ghouls and zombies and add more Grave guard, wolves and fell bats?

TheMaster
05-05-2010, 00:35
Count Mannfred 595 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Book of Arkhan

Wright King 200 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 150 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Skeleton Warriors 10 100 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 10 100 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 10 100 points
with command

Direwolves 7 80 points

Grave Guard 19 258 points

Fell Bats 5 100 points

Varghulf 175 points

Total 2004

I have decided to drop the BC. Any other suggestions?

Ovassilias
05-05-2010, 11:05
if u dont get the first round theres a serious possibility all of your skellies to get wiped out in one round.

units of 10 starting are not enough. Even if u get first round against an opponent who knows what to do he wont let u pass every invo to raise more.

Even if u roll 1 die per invo u still need a minimum of 3 thus not every roll will be succesfull.

I think u should drop the skull staff and 1 fell bat (since manfred can raise more) and make 2 of the skel units 15 strong.

~PrometheuS~
05-05-2010, 12:28
if u dont get the first round theres a serious possibility all of your skellies to get wiped out in one round.

units of 10 starting are not enough. Even if u get first round against an opponent who knows what to do he wont let u pass every invo to raise more.

Even if u roll 1 die per invo u still need a minimum of 3 thus not every roll will be succesfull.

I think u should drop the skull staff and 1 fell bat (since manfred can raise more) and make 2 of the skel units 15 strong.

Doubt it, ways around that, i start with 10 ghouls per unit and cant ever recall a time when ive lost one before i could summon

deploy 25 inchs back ;) prevents alot of armies piling shots in your small unit, use the 1st magic phase to summon, terrian can also be use to prevent line of sight

Also black knights are pretty decent ;) try and include some, they will help you win combats, but like the varg, dont think they can win on there own, tarpit the enemy with skels and throw these units into the flanks

TheMaster
05-05-2010, 22:09
So what do you think I should drop for Black knights?

Ovassilias
06-05-2010, 07:39
Doubt it, ways around that, i start with 10 ghouls per unit and cant ever recall a time when ive lost one before i could summon


how often do u face DE, dwarfs, WE, skaven, horror/herald spam lists and generally heavy shooting/magic lists?
also theres a huge difference between skellies and ghouls...its called T4 which goes a very long way to help them survive (5+sv on skellies is not helping against str4 shooting/magic).

2xRBT's, 3x10 r.crossbow elves and 2 sorceress can easially whipe at least one unit and have one more to 5 or below, which makes u casting invo to make them in decent number again.

Skaven magic and shooting can wipe all 3 skellie units in a blink of an eye...and so on.



deploy 25 inchs back ;) prevents alot of armies piling shots in your small unit, use the 1st magic phase to summon, terrian can also be use to prevent line of sight


again...units can move u know, the minimum range to avoid shooting is 29+ (on a basic longbow with 4M for example or magic missiles), terrain???how many pieces are u using? since 7th came out no more then 4-5 are used and the centre is always empty 12" all around, where exactly are u hiding? your lord needs to be 18" from all of your raisable units.

A player that knows what he is doing he will criplle your undead army from the start and leave your lord with no raisable targets (thats skellies/ghouls/bats the rest of invo spells are used to heal casualties) or even worse wipe the unit your lord is hiding.

If u dont have enough threats that can charge from second round your opponent is free to pick what to shoot/kill/avoid, foot sloggers starting from 25+ inches need 4 rounds to get in the fight.
Thats why u need 4 threats minimum (bats,varghulfs,knights) to make your opponent iggnore the rest and split fire/magic.

TheMaster
06-05-2010, 10:18
Okay so I should drop the skull staff and 1 fell bat and add 15 more skeles?

TheMaster
06-05-2010, 10:21
Count Mannfred 595 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Book of Arkhan

Wright King 200 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 150 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Direwolves 7 80 points

Grave Guard 19 258 points

Fell Bats 4 80 points
Varghulf 175 points

Total 2029

Ovassillias if I do what you suggested i'm still over 29 points. What else should I drop?

~PrometheuS~
06-05-2010, 11:20
Okay so I should drop the skull staff and 1 fell bat and add 15 more skeles?

Skull staff on mannfred is great, when raising plus 2 to cast on skellies, wolves, bats etc, that plus 1 from the staff makes a massive difference

Feminist
06-05-2010, 12:51
It says in rule book the lowest you can cast any spell is on a 3+. Does the skullstaff overwrite this?

TheMaster
07-05-2010, 00:31
Okay i'm getting very confused at the moment. So what should I do?

limkopi
07-05-2010, 03:48
Your math is wrong - Vampire, Dire Wolves, Wight King (you need the Battle Standard Bearer Upgrade) and you have spare points apparently. Plus, you really need a champion on the dawgs to make them work properly.

TheMaster
07-05-2010, 07:12
k i'll re-calculate

TheMaster
07-05-2010, 07:23
Count Mannfred 595 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Book of Arkhan

Wright King 225 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 140 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Direwolves 10 90 points
Doom Wolf

Grave Guard 19 258 points

Fell Bats 5 80 points

Varghulf 175 points

Total 2003

How's that? Or should I drop a fell bat and make 2 groups of wolves with doom wolves?

Ovassilias
07-05-2010, 09:25
It says in rule book the lowest you can cast any spell is on a 3+. Does the skullstaff overwrite this?

no it does not, u still need to roll a minimum of 3. It simply adds +1 to your roll, and another +1 if u have the specific vampiric power.


@ TheMaster your last list looks pretty good, just split the wolves into 2x5 and give one of them a doom wolf, your good to go imo.

TheMaster
07-05-2010, 09:51
Count Mannfred 595 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Book of Arkhan

Wright King 225 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 140 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Direwolves 5 50 points
Doom Wolf

Direwolves 5 40 points

Grave Guard 19 258 points

Fell Bats 5 80 points

Varghulf 175 points

Total 2003

How is this list?

limkopi
07-05-2010, 14:58
I like the 2nd list, but drop the Doom Wolf to stay under 2000. As mentioned, Doom Wolfs are useful with a 7 strong unit for the so called Dragon Trap*, but if going 5 strong, drop it for points.


*Vanhels the unit into a Monstrous Character (Greater Daemons or Dragons) and issue a challenge. Your enemy can only get a maximum of 6 CR for killing the Champion while you have outnumber. You lose by 5, leaving 1 wolf there (you lost the Champion and 5 wolves to CR). Next turn, the dragon/GD kills the last model and cannot pursue/overrun. You can now counter charge with a CR block.

z4carlo
07-05-2010, 20:10
It says in rule book the lowest you can cast any spell is on a 3+. Does the skullstaff overwrite this?

nope, an IoN cast with LotD and a skullstaff on a 2 (bumped up to a 4) is still a fail, there is no reason for the item to overwrite this rule which has been written for exactly this reason, to stop over explotation of easy cast spells with + to cast

TheMaster
08-05-2010, 01:10
Count Mannfred 595 points
Barded Hellstead
Skull staff
Book of Arkhan

Wright King 225 points
Drakenhoff banner

Vampire 140 points
Lord of the dead
The Flayed Hauberk

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Skeleton Warriors 15 140 points
with command

Direwolves 5 50 points

Direwolves 5 40 points

Grave Guard 19 258 points

Fell Bats 5 80 points

Varghulf 175 points

Total 1993

TheMaster
09-05-2010, 11:41
Should I drop something and add some wraiths or is my list fine as it is?