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Malorian
04-05-2010, 18:36
Battle of the Savage Shamans

Although rare, there are orcs who have been blessed by Mork (and possibly Gork) to be powerful shamans. They are even rarely seen on the battle field as powerful warbosses quickly lop their heads off in order to maintain control of the horde.

However, in the savage tribes, deep in the forests, great orc shamans lead their own hordes, and some times even battle each other!

These displays of orcy magic might are truely a sight to be seen, and soon, very soon, it would happen again...


Waaaghzzap, the savage great shaman of the Buttkikker clan, and Datzdum, the savage orc shaman of the Tree-smash clan, have brought along their orc and goblin armies to battle for the control.

The tides of green squared off against each other, yelled out their Waaagh!s and charged forward... but stopped when both armies were attacked on the Western flank by another army!

Coming together to face a common foe, Waaaghzzap and Datzdum make a quick pact to join forces to defeat this new enemy before settling their own differences.

The unknown assailant, whatever they were, now had two great orc spell casters looking to show off their magical might against them... either they must be very brave or very foolish...

Or hoping for the typical orc miscast...


So I was challenged to a 'friendly' 3K match and will be fighting the battle tomorrow.

I thought that while I'm doing this that I might as well test out two trial savage great orc shamans I had converted up, and whoever would do better would be used in a tournament I have coming up in July.

Waaaghzzap is a Lvl 4 savage orc great shaman with the battleaxe of the last Waaagh!, so not only is he a powerful caster, but he also has five str 7 attacks in combat.

Datzdum is a Lvl 4 savage orc great shaman in a chariot... kind of a more crazy build, but he'll hit hard when he charges and should be a lot of fun.


Here is the overall list I will be using:

(Waaaghzzap) Lvl 4 savage great shaman w/ battle axe of the last waaagh (general)
(Datzdum) Lvl 4 savage great shaman w/ chariot
Lvl 2 orc shaman w/ itty ring
Lvl 2 goblin shaman w/ wolf chariot w/ scroll
Lvl 2 goblin shaman w/ wolf chariot w/ scroll
Lvl 2 night goblin shaman w/ 5 mushrooms

25 savage orcs w/ spears, FC
25 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
25 boyz w/ shield, banner, musician
25 boyz w/ shield, banner
25 boyz w/ shield, banner
30 night goblins w/ nets, banner, musician, 2 fanatics
5 wolf riders w/ bows, spears, musician
5 wolf riders w/ bows, spears, musician
5 spider riders w/ musician

Orc chariot
Orc chariot
2 spear chukkas
2 spear chukkas

Doom diver
Troll
Troll

Total: 3000


My opponent will most likely be either dark elves or warriors of chaos.


So in the mean time vote not only for who you think will win but also on what build will do better.


Edit: Report is here http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4634841&postcount=14

Entreri Bloodletter
04-05-2010, 18:57
No gear on the great shaman with chariot? Seems like there are at least a few interesting things you could put on him. If there isn't any gear then I vote for the one with the Battle Axe

Malorian
04-05-2010, 19:52
No extra gear.

Being that he's kinda suicidal (frenzied chariot and all) I didn't want to dedicate too many points to him, plus as a side bonus it means he is 20 points less than the other build.

SevenSins
04-05-2010, 20:19
I gave my vote for waahgzzzaps victory, as said the chariot will probably be a bit suicidal

victory will be yours! as long as the miscasts stay away.... (Waagh! and warpath for the win!)

Chaos Undecided
04-05-2010, 20:38
Going with option 1 as well, really had to resist selecting that last one though

Entreri Bloodletter
04-05-2010, 20:44
Well I would probably still give the great shaman on chariot the Waaagh paint
( its fluffy too!), or a cheap magic weapon. Martag's is only 15 and the biting blade is like 5. Both would contribute a little- 2 S5 attacks or 2 S4 AP attacks aren't too shabby for a cheap price

Malorian
04-05-2010, 20:53
Well I could always drop 1 night goblin to get both the paint and martag's on him...

Although the plan would be to put him into combat only at the last second.

Crazydu
04-05-2010, 21:29
I am hoping there are no miscasts, cause I love it when Orcs and Goblins do well :D

Seabo
04-05-2010, 22:14
Goin for the double headbang :D
Goin to be interesting to see this lol.

zork rumpscratcha
05-05-2010, 14:11
ooh, I see so many miscasts in your future. Plus I run a savage orc army and I was hoping for a few more savages. That said, you're probably safer without an almost entirely frenzied army. I didn't know shaman lords had that many attacks. I thought they just had 1.

Malorian
05-05-2010, 15:02
I didn't know shaman lords had that many attacks. I thought they just had 1.

1 base
1 for frenzy
Then the battle axe gives them +1 for each rank bonus

1+1+3=5 :D


I thought it was pretty cool when I first thought about putting that 100 point weapon on a great shaman, and finally I get to try it out :)

Gork or Possibly Mork
05-05-2010, 23:36
My vote goes to Waaaghzzap victory.

Interesting list but no bsb though:(

I predict atleast 1-2 shamans heads will pop. Thats alot of magic especially with the bound ring and 5!!!! mushrooms<I predict Mr.Shrumbrew pops.

Djekar
06-05-2010, 07:15
I actually wanted to vote that the shaman will be merrily leading the green horde to victory which will be subsequently snatched from their slavering mouths by the miscast result where all the shaman on the table have a sudden case of "head explodey", leading to a rather remarkable promotion for one very lucky Orc Boy. I didn't see that option though.

In either event it looks like a crazy list, and you should have a lot of fun with it!

Malorian
06-05-2010, 14:56
Battle of the Savage Shamans


Well unfortunately my opponent didn’t allow me to take pictures so the report will have to be all written.


His list:

Dreadlord w/ pendant, stuff, and manticore
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dagger, ItP
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ 3rd spell, magical 2+ to hit crossbow

30 spearmen w/ FC
10 repeater crossbowmen w/ shields
10 repeater crossbowmen w/ shields
10 repeater crossbowmen w/ shields
10 repeater crossbowmen w/ shields

20 black guard w/ FC, ASF
20 witch elves w/ FC
15 shades
15 shades

2 repeater bolt throwers
2 repeater bolt throwers
Hydra


The board w/ 6X4 and there was a 2 story tower in the center of each of our deployment zones, a hill on his left corner and in my right, a ruins on my side of the left flank, and a woods on his side of the right flank. Finally there was 1 tree in the very middle (third party setup).


He deployed from left to right: hydra, RBT on hill, crossbowmen, RBT, spears w/ sorceress RBT, black guard, RBT, two units of crossbowmen in the tower with a sorceress with the unit on the top floor, RBT, witch elves, crossbowmen, manticore behind the woods.

I deployed from left to right: orcs, wolves behind the ruins, chukka, Datzdum, orcs, troll w/ shaman chariot behind, savage orcs w/ Waaaghzzap, doom diver on the top of the tower, nightgoblins w/ night goblin shaman, troll w/ shaman chariot behind, orcs, chariot, chariot, wolves, orcs, spider riders, and behind them were the 3 other chukkas on the hill.

One unit if shades scout behind the ruins and the other in the woods, and I win first turn.


Pre-Game Thoughts:

When I first got there my opponent admitted that he knew my list so I went in expecting him to have a lot of anti-magic, so when he place the sorceress in the spear elves and said “Guess what she has?” I assumed it was the book of miscast, but looking back I should have known it was only the dagger.

I was glad to see his list was rather friendly (no deathstars) but at the same time I knew that was a lot of shooting. I was torn between staying back and ripping him up with magic before mopping up or just rushing in…

Either way the plan was to pin-cushion the manticore with the chukkas before the right flank moved up, bait and counter the witch elves with chariots, and I definitely wanted my savage orcs with spears to be fighting the black guard. I also had a faint hope that my orcs on the far left could tie up his hydra.

I was VERY worried that if he got first turn he would move up his shades and force Datzdum into the woods, so I was relieved when I got first turn. (I had forgotten he had scouts.)

Rolling for magic was kinda funny as almost all my mages rolled the same thing. Both great shamans had spells 1-4, and pretty much all the lvl 2s had the fouth and first spell. Certainly would make remembering their spells easy…


Turn 1 Orcs:

Animosity makes the night goblins squabble and the right wolves run up, and trolls pass stupidity.

The left orcs move up and the wolves run behind them, left main line moves up slightly with Datzdum moving to the other side of the orcs, the right main line main holds still other than the chariots turning to guard the center from the manticore, and the far right orcs move a bit up while the spider rush up to annoy the shades (I was hoping it would take them 2 turns to wipe them out).

In the magic phase I lay out my dice and get ready to lay out the hurt… and do nothing… between failing to meet casting values (typically using 3 dice to get 9+ spells), failing to wound his lord (silly pendant), and being out of range (stupidity on my part) I just failed to do anything… and I was sad…

In the shooting phase the doom diver scattered off the shades and my chukkas all missed.

Not a good way to start the game…

Turn 1 DE:

Frenzy test on the manticore is passed (it’s never failed).

Hydra moves up, left shades move to the right edge of the ruins, spears and black guard move slightly up, witches moves up full distance, manticore flies to his center (knowing he’ll be out of range of my 48 inch chukkas), and right shades move up.

I stop the magic phase but he had used the dagger to kill one of his guys so we joke about how he just did more damage to the DE than I did in my first turn.

Shooting is deadly like expected. Spiders are wiped out, right wolves are wiped out, and the orcs on the right of the ruins are down to 15. He also kills some savage orcs and does a wound to one of the chariots.

Turn 2 Orcs:

Animosity makes the far left orcs squabble, the left troll fails stupidity, but the right one passes.

Those 15 orcs charge the left shades and he flees and gets away.

Wolves move up to bait hydra, Datzdum and the shaman chariot are looking to hit the spears next turn while the savages face the black guard. Right troll moves up to bait witches while 3 chariots aim to counter, and the far right orcs move towards the right shades.

Magic phase goes much better as I hit the right shades with foot of gork and kill 5, almost wipe out the witch elves (just 8 left and champ is dead from itty ring), and kill 7 black guard.

In the shooting phase the doom diver misfires and can’t shoot this turn or next and my chukkas fail to hit anything.

Turn 2 DE (The Turn of Suck!):

Both the manticore and the witches charge the right troll and the witches catch them, ending up right in front of my night goblins, but not before fanatics kill another 4 of them (which stop just shy of the manticore). The left shades fail to rally and run off the board (woohoo!).

Hydra moves up to the wolves, and black guard move up and wheel so that when the savages charge them they will show their flank to the spears.

Magic actually does something as my dice fail me and I fail to stop a doombolt that does a wound to Datzdum and 2 wounds to his chariot.

Seeing as how it’s wounded anyway his RBTs key in on him and kill both him and his chariot (cry…) and since he is unit strength 5 it causes panic checks… the 15 orcs fail and run into the ruins (barely missing his hydra) and the left shaman chariot fails and becomes my right shaman chariot as it runs over the savages, the other shaman chariot, the night goblins, and a unit of orcs (more cry..). He also brings the non-fleeing shaman chariot down to 1 wound on both the shaman and the chariot, and kills both fanatics. Finally his hydra breaths fire on the wolves, killing 3, and making them panic.

Turn 3 Orcs:

Looking to save face I declare my Waaagh! But the far left orcs roll a 1 and 4 die, however most of the other units move up, and the night goblins actually run into the witchelves. Stupidity is passed. The fleeing shaman chariot fails to rally and runs off the board, the 15 orcs fail and run into the hydra, but at least my 2 wolves rally *face-palm*.

It looks really close for the far right orcs being in charge range of the shades… but I gamble and go for it, losing a couple to stand and shoot, and I’m just in range and make the charge. The savages charge the black guard.

The troll moves up to redirect the spears from the savages and the shaman chariot moves over to both get out of the charge arch of the manticore and be in a countering position for the spears should they charge my troll (assuming he somehow doesn’t do that last wound to the either him or his chariot…). The shaman orcs and night goblins move back and the two chariots move up to get out of the charge arch.

Magic does ok as I kill 9 out of 10 of the left crossbowmen, make the savages ASF and reroll to hit, kill some more black guard and itty ring does a wound to a sorceress.

In the shooting phase I almost kill the manticore and look for the left chukka to take off the last wound, but by total fluke that 1 tree is perfectly in place to block LOS.

In combat the shades are beaten but get away, witches are beaten and I let the last two run away since they can’t rally, and he kills a few savages (as his ASF is faster than my ASF) but then I kill 7 back (Waaaghzzap killed 5! And my champ killed his), he then breaks but gets away and stops just before the tower.

Turn 3 DE:

Hydra charges the left orcs (terror passed), spears charge the troll, and manticore charges the shaman orcs, they fail terror and have to flee and are easily caught after I roll a double 1. Shades and black guard rally.

Magic phase is shut down.

In the shooting phase he tears the savages apart leaving only about 8 and Waaaghzzap left, he does 2 more wounds to the wounded chariot, but the little he dedicates to the shaman chariot fails to kill it (hurray!).

In combat the hydra kills 5 orcs and I win by musician but he holds, and spears do 2 wounds to the troll and I kill the champ and get ran down.

Turn 4 Orcs (The Turn of Awesome!):

Animosity does nothing.

Shaman chariot hits the flank of the spears, savages charge the black guard while the wounded chariot hits the flank, and the other chariot charges the right crossbowmen. Night goblins move up and the orcs up the woods move up to peek out at the shades knowing that they are too wide to run around them.

In the magic phase I make the savage orcs ASF and reroll to hit again and kill all but 2 of the shades (who pass panic).

Shooting kills the manticore.

In combat the hydra kills 4 and so I win by 1 again thanks to the musician and the hydra breaks and gets ran down, spearmen are beaten and ran down, the one chariot beats the right crossbowmen and runs them down, and the other chariot almost wipes out the black guard with only the banner bearer to be smashed down by my unit champ.

Turn 4 DE:

Dreadlord moves towards my hill, and now that there are only 2 shades they easily move to the flank of my orcs in the woods.

Magic is shut down.

In the shooting phase he kills both goblin chariot and his shaman, some of the left orcs, and all but 2 savages.

Turn 5 Orcs:

Animosity does nothing.

What’s left of the savages charge the bottom floor of the tower, the left orcs think about rushing his hill but then I realize they would never make it, night goblins move up, and the chariots take aim at his RBTs.

In the magic phase I make the savages ASF and reroll to hit, and then kill 4 of the 10 crossbowmen I will be fighting.

Doom diver scatters and the only chukka that hits the dreadlord rolls a 1 to wound (not that it really mattered).

In combat I kill an impressive 4 crossbowmen but he annoyingly holds and I’m pushed back out.

Turn 5 DE:

Dreadlord forgets to charge.

His sorceress gets black horror off with irresistible force and kills all but 6 of the night goblins and they fail panic (too small to rally).

Shooting wipes out the savages and does a wound to Waaaghzzap and both chariots are destroyed.

Turn 6 Orcs:

Animosity does nothing and Waaaghzaap charges the right RBT.

Magic makes him ASF and reroll to hit, but then he miscasts with triple 1s… this is what everyone was waiting for… but all that happens is that he gets frenzy and stupidity (nice!).

Doom diver wipes out the last shades and the left chukka kills that last crossbowmen on the left.

In combat I wiff, he even does a wound to me, I lose, but hold.

Turn 6 DE:

Dreadlord forgets to charge.

Will little else to do he makes Waaaghzzap weapon skill 1, and his shooting kills a few of the left orcs but they hold.

In combat I amazingly beat and break the RBT!

So at the end of the game I had left: half points for Waaaghzzap, 1 full orc unit, half an orc unit, half a wolf unit, doom diver, four chukkas, 2 table quarters, and a banner. He had his dreadlord, half a sorceress, two crossbowmen units, 3 RBTs, 1 table quarter, and 1 banner.

It's a tie!


As the sun began to set and both armies parted ways, savage great shaman Waaaghzzap made his way over to the fallen Datzdum. Covered in small bolts and with a 3 foot larger bolt through his chest there was no doubt he was dead.

But then again… he had to be sure…

Cutting off Datzdum’s head with his battle-axe, Waaaghzzap held the severed head above him and bellowed out a loud WAAAGH!!!


Post-game Thoughts:

What a bloody battle, and I’m amazed I pulled off a tie after everything fell apart so badly for a while there.

Magic was disappointing (especially that first turn) and it was amazing the amount of times I failed a 9+ with 3 dice, but in the end it was a lot of fun and nice to use magic with orcs for a change. (By the way, the night goblin used 4 mushrooms and didn’t miscast once!)

Between the two savage great shamans there is no doubt that the one on foot with the battle-axe of the last waaagh came out on top. Not only did he get a ton of spells off during the game, but he also did his fair share in combat too, so come July I will be using him during my two day tournament.

Thanks for reading! :)

GuyLeCheval
06-05-2010, 17:02
Great battle Mal. But I should say one thing: The shaman in the chariot should use the skull wand of Khaloth and frenzy warpaint thingie. That's a good setup.

Seabo
06-05-2010, 17:20
Sounded like it was quite the battle lol.
Nice but potentially very nasty DE list. To my Beastmen at least. Of course yours would have probably mopped up the floor with me as well.
Come to think of it a horde of ticked off Snotlings could probably crush Beastmen....:p
Very sad that there were no head explosions :(.....no fair.

Malorian
06-05-2010, 17:39
Great battle Mal. But I should say one thing: The shaman in the chariot should use the skull wand of Khaloth and frenzy warpaint thingie. That's a good setup.

I don't know... he's already a lot of points even with only the chariot, and without anything else (kicking boots) he would only have 2 attacks (warpaint for sure though).


Really that chariot riding one was just a mistake in the first place and I'm not that surprised that he didn't do well.

I first made the model thinking I could put an orc shaman caddie on it, but it wasn't until the model was done that I learned only great orc shamans can take chariots (lame...). So this was really just something I tried because I wanted to try out the model... with a slight glimmer of hope that he would do ok as well...


When I was removing the model after it died I actually broke the model by mistake (rider broke out) and I'm wondering if I should just change it to have a savage orc warboss in it instead...

SevenSins
06-05-2010, 19:10
great game, and not a lot left alive on either side. And "my" shaman won out! Yey I'm psychic!

Crazydu
07-05-2010, 00:03
After reading the first 2 turns I was :( but then it turned out ok in the end :)

Gork or Possibly Mork
07-05-2010, 00:31
Great game. His shooting was pretty brutal early on but turn 4 was indeed pure awesome.

Im actually pretty impressed the NG mushroom shaman didn't pop. I've always had horrible luck with that many.

What was the Dreadlord forgetting to charge on the last two turns. I assume it was the chukkas since you mentioned he flew over towards the hill turn 4? Could have tipped this to a minor win for him maybe had he remembered.

Malorian
07-05-2010, 22:14
Even if had remembered to charge the chukkas it most likely would have been a tie, but maybe not.

I can't say for sure since we never added it up.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
08-05-2010, 11:22
Nice report Malorian, I only used a lv4 on chariot twice and it was in an al mounted list with 2 giant and 5 other chariots:p. My great shaman had the waaagh paint, kickin bootz and a scroll quite expensive but he did his job especially when I got of bash em ladz on him:p.

Cheers,
G

Toshiro
09-05-2010, 07:34
Really great game Mal!

The possibility to combine fighting and magic makes orc shamans pretty dangerous :) I'm looking forward to see him in the tourney :)